1997 V Jump Scan (feat. Zack and Shinra Execs)

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Yeah, the 4th disc has the image of the letter itself. But the text of the letter can still be read in the normal gameplay of Discs 1-3 when visiting Gongaga right?
I actually don't recall if the specific text of Zack's letter is present as readable content on the main 3 game discs – but I don't think so.

I know that the various dialogue paths with Zack's parents cover Zack having written them a letter 6-7 years ago and having a girlfriend ONLY if Aerith and/or Tifa are in the party when taking to his parents in Gongaga. If only Tifa's in the party they ask if it was her which she directly denies, whereas if Aerith is present both with or without Tifa they'll ask Aerith instead and she'll exit in disbelief. This does make everything a bit more fuzzy, but it's also worth remembering that this just left things with a lot more lingering unknowns in the original Japanese release.

There is a good bit that's worth unpacking about the timeline of all of this though:

This magazine came out in May of 1997, and the end of this particular bit is especially interesting:
• What is the relationship between Aerith and Zack?
– Apparently Aerith's crush is one-sided and they aren't dating, but it seems a bit suspicious. More details about the relationship between these two will be announced soon! Look forward to it!

"More details about the relationship between these two will be announced soon! Look forward to it!"

This is because that point in time specifically represents teasing around speculation that's happening during what's technically still mid-development – since it wouldn't be until September of 1997 when the NA version of FFVII released where Zack's entire Nibelheim Flashback sequence was added, meaning that Japanese audiences had never seen ANY of that content, nor was it as clear what that interaction was like. Also, given what we know with how rapidly the development turn-around time was back then, it's entirely possible & potentially likely that the precise details of exactly how interconnected Zack's & Aerith's relationship was wasn't fully set in stone yet.

After September, all of Zack's dialogue about going to crash at her place and then remembering that she lives with her mom, as they're both heading to Midgar before he gets killed helped to reinforce the context that it was definitely Aerith he was referring to in the letter, and their relationship wasn't as one-sided as it seemed despite Zack's absence. The International Version of FFVII was released in Japan in October of 1997 which included 4th disc (called Perfect Guide) making all of that available to the JP audience, and then the EU release would have been the month after in November of 1997.

Interestingly this bit about Zack also stands out:
Huge scoop! Debut of a special illustration by Tetsuya Nomura!

It's Aerith's first love, Zack!!
  • Handsome and cheerful!
  • Passionate about his friends!
  • Loves the ladies!
A 1st Class SOLDIER and one of Cloud's best friends. As you can see, he looks super cool. Currently MIA, though it's rumored he's shacked up with a woman... He was seen hanging out with a girl at Costa del Sol.
While I know that Johnny's storyline involves shacking up at the house in Costa Del Sol, I don't recall anything in the original game hinting that Zack was there or that he was shacking up with anyone. HOWEVER, I'm curious if this old mention of Zack being MIA & having been seen hanging out with a girl at Costa Del Sol is what inspired the inclusion of the overtly fanservicey moment in Crisis Core that's exclusively showing both Zack & Cissnei vacationing together in swimsuits... at Costa Del Sol:

The fact that the story sets up Cissnei being the one who was responsible for running information interference on what Zack was doing, means that him being a bit of a flirt, and those rumors would easily overlap into that sort of image of him running off with some other girl and going off the grid when he's declared MIA. Given that the only information Zack's parents have is that he got a girlfriend before vanishing, that all checks out and makes for a more comfortable bit of closure – which we know that Cissnei directly is keeping eyes on in Rebirth. Thus – even if that rumor is not accurate to the reality of what happened, it WOULD be the most logical conclusion that people would jump to in-universe, which would likely reinforce the things we hear about Zack second hand by the time the events of the original game roll around, including how Aerith attempts to play off things about their relationship early on.



Related – this also reminds me of one other adjacent detail that's thus far been indirectly soft-retconned – which is that Cloud & Zack both scratched messages on their tanks to each other about escaping prior to breaking out as Cloud's health started significantly deteriorating. With only the original JP game text, this brief exchange frames the escape as something that Cloud initiates & Zack cooperates with. This plain text is one of the things that makes the details of Zack's letter to his parents and the related context from 6-7 years earlier a bit more complex with Aerith since there's nothing that connects those things.

However... 4th Disc also added more context to the text itself, since it visually shows the difference in their mental states – with Cloud's scratched writing being very shaky & uneven, compared to Zack's being much more compact & clear:

C Project, Specimen (B) Code C:
"A scratch left by a fingernail inside the beaker... 'Let's get out of here…'."
cloud-escape1.jpg

C Project, Specimen (A) Code Z:
"A scratch left by a fingernail inside the beaker... 'Feeding Time'...that's our chance...!"
zack-escape.jpg


Thus, post-International version both with the Flashback & Perfect Guide, it's very clear that things here were ACTUALLY Cloud's desperate plea, followed by Zack taking charge, after which he's acting on his own motives which are then shown directly during the Flashback. It's worth noting that this scenario with them scratching text to one another was still a core part of the narrative design in how those images are added to 4th Disc, even as the Zack Flashback was added with the International Version during which Cloud had already reached the point of being totally non-verbal.

Because Cloud is non-verbal & near-comatose, Zack solely being the one who's taking them both to Midgar while talking about a place where he can potentially crash before remembering that her mom lives there too provides a lot more definitive context that the letter he sent his parents is about Aerith specifically that ISN'T connected to Cloud's motives or knowing he'd find Tifa there. This flashback also helps to recontextualize the ways in which Cloud assimilates Zack's identity from that experience in ways that Aerith would recognize & respond to, which in turn would further reinforce Zack's parents being right about Aerith being his girlfriend, despite the big time gap making things really unclear for her – and thus leading to the hopeful speculation that he'd just met some other girl and gone off the grid still being valid information to undestanding the larger context of the story.

Since the scratches on the tanks are in-game prompts that existed in the original JP version, returning to where those scratches are in FFVII International starts the cinematic flashback from that point with them both in tanks, and shows Zack escaping when they're being fed, thus leading into the series of events with Zack being the driving force, and Cloud being mostly absent of any direct motivation as what's basically THE core of anything we really knew about Zack's character all the way until Crisis Core got released.

With the Compilation, we don't ever see any of Cloud's deterioration happening, nor do we get any of them having to silently communicate through the tank walls and getting a sense of one another's health that way as something that incentivizes their escape & reinforces that interdependence on one another, nor is it shown if they really have any clear sense of the passage of time during this period. Instead, what we get is directly a match to the start of the FFVII International flashback presentation as its starting point, that earlier part of the scenario in Crisis Core starts with the escape already happening and doesn't really contextualize the timing as being something that Zack & Cloud overtly planned out with one another during the time prior.

This means that there's no sense of understanding how long it's been or what's been happening until Zack finds Aerith's final letter – thus leaving BOTH of them to try and figure out fragmented context about one another solely through the final letter that gets left behind by the other, thus leading to the added complexity about their relationship during the massive gap. This is one reason why I am rather curious if the Remake Project will ever end up covering that period of time when they're in the tanks together, because seeing when Cloud starts slipping away from being himself IS still a catalyst for them actually breaking out – it's one that's more directly a part of the story of Cloud's fragmented identity that works better in Cloud's narrative, and less so in a story about Zack's side of things – which Rebirth has continued to expand upon.

While FFVII Rebirth doesn't have prompts to look for any scratches of messages on the tanks when in the Shinra Manor, Cloud's mental struggles get triggered in the general proximity very similar to where the Zack Flashback kicks off, so it's not clear if that's something that will get covered directly, since that whole area gets closed off from being revisited. We won't make it back until Part 3 to know just how much of that pre-escape content is still something that the story will cover, or if'll remain in that soft-retcon territory.

What's interesting is that FFVII Remake actually does hint at little fragments of that when Cloud's memory of being used as a human experiment and buried away in a basement gets triggered in Chapter 13, meaning that it's not definitively something that's been retconned, but that it just hasn't been focused on yet.

Mainly though, this part of the narrative in the Remake Project hinges REALLY heavily on needing to establish a lot of information about Zack's character FIRST, since the flashback here represents an overt disconnect where Cloud isn't the one with the guiding motivation to push things forward, but instead Zack is the driving force – and that's JUST BARELY starting to happen in the story near the end of Rebirth. So, there's a lot of identity overlap that's been messy since the original game – even before the characterization of Zack was more clearly defined by exploring the bits that were particularly fragmented in the original Japanese release.

Overall, there's a LOT in how this whole sequence was developed & updated over time that provide key details around the context & motive for both Cloud's & Zack's characters and how that ties into the little fragments of information about both of them that are scattered around throughout the game, especially in the nature of the relationship that Cloud forms with both Tifa & Aerith after he stumbles into Midgar. Zack's death scene in particular REALLY heavily creates context about the start of the game and how that informs players about the nature of those relationships that's really different than how flexible the interpretations would be without that in the original JP version when this magazine was released – but in turn, these little tidbits from an old magazine provide an interesting way to look at how certain details were included in Crisis Core, Remake, & Rebirth as a means of consistently expanding around these general details about Zack's character (and also why I expect that Crisis Core Reunion was released before part 3).

It's why things like the time when only the original version had been released and the International version was still in-development are such an interesting lens into a point in time, as it's also handy in looking at the ways in which the revisiting of that storytelling is covering that same ground a little bit differently in the Remake Project, as well as how that initially got its refreshes of the Compilation content with Crisis Core focused on emphasizing overt motivation into Zack's incentive to get back to Midgar for Aerith. Using things like Aerith writing 88 letters to Zack as an echo for Zack writing a letter about her, (especially with the Crisis Core Reunion Hero Edition literally coming with Aerith's final letter) still emphasize those same particular narrative devices on where to look based on what players had to rely on, and also knowing that the letters weren't the whole story, but they were what people in-universe were basing their perceptions from.

It's neat to see these little elements of design & details that the games have been using for reinforcing their story over the years that still have roots back in these little updates that were included to clarify & emphasize particular story details that weren't as definitive in the original JP version of the game, especially BECAUSE of things like these magazines being the nexus of that conversation & information in Japan at the time.



X :neo:
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
HOWEVER, I'm curious if this old mention of Zack being MIA & having been seen hanging out with a girl at Costa Del Sol is what inspired the inclusion of the overtly fanservicey moment in Crisis Core that's exclusively showing both Zack & Cissnei vacationing together in swimsuits... at Costa Del Sol:
Apparently, Nomura, along with Tabata, said that the beach scene between Zack and Cissnei was made to allude to a scene in Final Fantasy VII where Aerith says something about Zack having other girlfriend [Dengeki PSP Vol.397]. But Nojima confirmed that he didn't intend to portray Zack waver between Aerith and Cissnei [Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII Ultimania pg. 579, Creator's Interview].

In the game itself, the scenario on the beach shows Zack reject Cissnei's offer to rub suntan lotion on him and ask her to go doing something because he wants to call Aerith. Later, player will receive email from Zack Fan Club that Black Suit, presumably Cissnei's alias, informs that Zack is not flirtatious player despite having the vitality.

SO SUSPICIOUS LOL

But yeah, never thought, it's been 'decided' or "inspired" since Original Game haha.

Zack solely being the one who's taking them both to Midgar while talking about a place where he can potentially crash before remembering that her mom lives there too provides a lot more definitive context that the letter he sent his parents is about Aerith specifically that ISN'T connected to Cloud's motives

these little tidbits from an old magazine provide an interesting way to look at how certain details were included in Crisis Core, Remake, & Rebirth as a means of consistently expanding around these general details about Zack's character (and also why I expect that Crisis Core Reunion was released before part 3).

It's why things like the time when only the original version had been released and the International version was still in-development are such an interesting lens into a point in time, as it's also handy in looking at the ways in which the revisiting of that storytelling is covering that same ground a little bit differently in the Remake Project, as well as how that initially got its refreshes of the Compilation content with Crisis Core focused on emphasizing overt motivation into Zack's incentive to get back to Midgar for Aerith.
Crisis Core still doesn't complete though. The long monologue of Zack in the truck is cut short only saying "I won't do such a thing like abandoning you, we're friends, right?". It doesn't even detail what Zack would do in Midgar, being mercenary and sort. If new fans doesn't play OG, doesn't watch Last Order, but playing CCFF7 Reunion only, they would still not get how the Ex-SOLDIER Cloud's job at the opening is literally taking Zack's plan for himself. So, Remake Part III must expand that.

And I expect it will also change his dialogue about that suggest he has many girlfriend he could pick one to crash. It might be the international release, but the JP provide a translation that it really suggest "plural" girl, even though Aerith's letter in Banora make it clearer. I think, with or without carrying Cloud, Zack's fate is still predestined by the ambush, because it's all for returning to the girl he loves. He seems stuck in the Lifestream world only because of that unfulfilled desire.
 
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X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Apparently, Nomura, along with Tabata, said that the beach scene between Zack and Cissnei was made to allude to a scene in Final Fantasy VII where Aerith says something about Zack having other girlfriend [Dengeki PSP Vol.397]. But Nojima confirmed that he didn't intend to portray Zack waver between Aerith and Cissnei [Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII Ultimania pg. 579, Creator's Interview].

In the game itself, the scenario on the beach shows Zack reject Cissnei's offer to rub suntan lotion on him and ask her to go doing something because he wants to call Aerith. Later, player will receive email from Zack Fan Club that Black Suit, presumably Cissnei's alias, informs that Zack is not flirtatious player despite having the vitality.

SO SUSPICIOUS LOL

But yeah, never thought, it's been 'decided' or "inspired" since Original Game haha.

High five for having the specific source citing on those references! Massively appreciated. Since I noticed that you've previously cited the Dengeki PSP Vol. 397 before with specific quotes from that & the CC Ultimania, I was wondering if you happen to know if there're any scans of that issue that're still floating around online somewhere – since it's one of the Dengeki issues that's unfortunately NOT uploaded over on Retromags (which does at least detail that it was from September 2007). Not having much more than the date makes it a bit tougher to go back to get a sense of the time-context-specific information, and if there're any other interesting tidbits tucked away in that issue which might provide some interesting juxtaposition to these V-Jump articles from a decade earlier.

Always extra helpful to have additional mentions of context from folks who still know about them either way.

Crisis Core still doesn't complete though. The long monologue of Zack in the truck is cut short only saying "I won't do such a thing like abandoning you, we're friends, right?". It doesn't even detail what Zack would do in Midgar, being mercenary and sort. If new fans doesn't play OG but CCFF7 Reunion only, they would still not get how the Ex-SOLDIER Cloud's job at the opening is literally taking Zack's plan for himself. So, Remake Part III must expand that.

And I expect it will also change his dialogue about that suggest he has many girlfriend he could pick one to crash. It might be the international release, but the JP provide a translation that it really suggest "plural" girl, even though Aerith's letter in Banora make it clearer. I think, with or without carrying Cloud, Zack's fate is still predestined by the ambush, because it's all for returning to the girl he loves. He seems stuck in the Lifestream world only because of that unfulfilled desire.

I hadn't remembered the differences between the lines in the Japanese & English versions in the original game, where the Japanese line definitely isn't focused on his place to crash being singular individual the way that the English is – so that's another really good callout that's interesting to look at in this context back when those things weren't as clearly well-defined about Zack's character yet.

みんなの世話んなって... あ、どの女の子も親といっしょに住んでるのか...
"I got a place I can crash for a while... No wait, the mother lives there too."

Given that difference, it makes a LOT of sense why even as far back as 2005 with Last Order, which had the longest version of the Truck flashback scene plays out such that the conversation is shown without including that particular line of dialogue at all. In Advent Children, we only see Cloud having hazy flashbacks of a few VERY brief moments in the truck, and so in 2007 Crisis Core really only focused on its version of that scene showing us Zack's perspective on those particular truncated moments from Advent Children, rather than having a full recreation of the truck scene that's a lot closer to what we'd gotten in Last Order.


Just like the January 1997 – September 1997 window we can get a peek into with these old V-Jump scans about the points in time with the original Japanese release to the International Version of FFVII, the window from when Before Crisis started to expand upon some of the Zack's story in Chapters 8, 19, & 21 (February 18, September 15, & November 18, 2005) overlapping with Advent Children / Last Order in September 14th 2005, then again with Before Crisis' Episode Reno on September 12 coinciding with the release of Crisis Core on September 13th 2007, and finally Zack's moments being expanded upon in Advent Children Complete on April 16, 2009. There have been a lot of development windows revisiting Zack's character where various details were a bit in flux and there was some figuring out in how to utilize various hooks to his character's story from what'd been expanded upon before, which is rather similar to what we've been experiencing as the Remake Project has been under way.

On that note – the end of Remake Intergrade is centered around Cloud & Co. hitchhiking a ride from Chocobo Bill with Cloud & Barret in the back of his pickup truck – which is EXACTLY the sort of thing I'd always imagined that the Zack & Cloud sequence trying to get to Midgar would be like. I hadn't really thought about it as much in that context before now, but I'm curious there was an underlying inspiration in developing that sequence as a bit of a purposeful echoing of the old truck flashback sequence, but with everyone going AWAY from Midgar as the fate-altered Zack is still headed TOWARDS where Aerith was, where using parallels to those same narrative devices – especially with the truck leaving them behind just as the sequence shifts where the rain starts falling. This makes the release of Remake on April 10, 2020 to Intergrade on. June 10, 2021 an exceptionally strong parallel to how the original FFVII had FFVII International include an almost identical sequence with Zack's Flashback that's particularly interesting to look at in that light.


All in all, that makes it rather interesting to consider how exactly those things are gonna be handled in Part 3 when it comes to the portrayal of the ACTUAL Flashback sequence with Zack – since that's going to serve as the first time we see those events from a reliable narrator perspective that's not muddled up by Cloud's fragmented & mismatched memories, but also since there are a lot of NEW moments that the Remake Project has established that help to reinforce those particular story beats such that they'll feel like familiar echoes even to players who are experiencing all of them for the very first time.

Especially since Rebirth has been developing a lot more of Cloud's flashbacks & new misrememberings of events in Nibelheim and expanding upon those things rather than truncating them, it stands to reason that the flashback sequence will have a lot more specifics that it's going to present directly. Exactly how many of the surrounding details from the original game they're going to include along with that which haven't been done thus far will be interesting to see, and I'm now even more acutely curious if it'll cover anything like the scratching communication or Zack talking about where he's contemplating crashing once it finally gets to those parts, especially since Rebirth established that narratively shifting things to take place through Zack's POV is something that is an integrated part of the storytelling which has also been seeding little bits and pieces of those narrative details.

Additionally, when it comes to Zack's post-escape survival sequence, Rebirth creating the whole new sequence of Zack reaching Aerith with the rain starting when it's seemingly too late that parallels Cloud making it to Zack after he's been gunned down. The fact that Zack initially goes to crash with Aerith & Cloud – not at Aerith's home, but rather in an abandoned house in the undercity, before ending up getting in touch with her mother Elmyra and staying in their home in Sector 5. This matches how he talks about where he's staying in Midgar and so there's a little bit more wiggle room for updating the dialogue in the Truck sequence to more closely match the things that we now KNOW that Zack is focused on at that point.

Since those things are all directly related to his motives with Aerith given that it takes place post-Banora when he's gotten Aerith's final letter, and the release of Crisis Core Reunion reinforces those connections, I'd be a bit surprised if we don't get a bit more closure around that – especially given the inclusion of Cissnei living in Gongaga being done in a way where she's still trying to make sure Zack can lay low if he shows up somehow. There're a lot of little elements that have their roots back to these earlier designs about Zack's character having a plurality of female friends who could potentially help him out, but now being more intentionally portrayed in a way where they're not meant to diminish the specific connection between him & Aerith, so much as help frame that he had other people who really cared about him that were looking out for him.

Cissnei's character "Shuriken" was first added to the game in Chapter 19 which featured Zack & Cloud's escape from the Shinra manor, even before she was added in Episode Reno – all of which was canonized specifically as being explicitly her actions in Crisis Core. Especially given how purposefully cryptic & held back Cissnei's answers are in Rebirth in context to the interconnected relationship between Cloud, Zack, & Aerith when given the opportunity to ask her a single question if you reply with, "Actually I'm good." "What is it you're hiding from us?" or "Who are you really?" she does actually expand on the differences between her relationship to Zack if you ask, "Who are you waiting for?" in a way that reflects back to those flirtatious elements about Zack's character that we see from these old magazine scans.


A lot of Cissnei's content in Rebirth really feels like it's holding back on elements that can't be expanded upon openly until part 3 at which point there's going to be some more natural story hooks for content with Cissnei as Cloud starts to figure more things out about himself, and we potentially have a means to get a clearer picture of who she is that Cloud might be able to recall. Especially given the Gongaga reactor is directly interconnected to Scarlet & the Huge Materia efforts, it stands to reason that there will be some threads that start to tie her story back to its roots with Before Crisis, and specifically in ways that start to take a more nuanced look at the inner workings of things within Shinra with characters like Reeve and other people on the inside having a conflicted alignment within the executive board, especially Rufus does briefly team up with them after Cloud's exit & prior to Sapphire Weapon attacking Junon, having more points of contact like this makes sense for the rest of the party to start to develop a bigger picture of things – and making this scan being all about Zack & the Shinra Execs from way back when especially neat to be able to look back on in light of all that.

On that note, and since it was mentioned in your other post with the magazine quotes, Kunsel also being someone who knew Zack for being a bit of a flirt but also that he cared uniquely for Aerith makes me curious if he may end up being a part of connecting those dots in part 3 as well given that his mention in Remake was given right around Cloud glitching out that we haven't followed up on yet. SOLDIER was not yet folded under Heigdeggar's command at the time when Kunsel's last assignment in Crisis Core was to investigate the reactor at Fort Condor (which, despite playing the minigame in Rebirth we haven't actually been able to visit directly). So, beyond just Cissnei we know that the Turks were also explicitly working against the army attempting to kill Zack under Heideggar's command in a similar way to how the events in Wutai are going to put them into a less-antagonistic position towards one another. Given that Part 3 will also involve returning to Midgar & eventually team up with the Turks while heading back into Shinra HQ and facing off against Heideggar & Scarlet in the Proud Clod AKA the Pride & Joy whose Prototype you can fight in Remake and which we newer forms of in the lower levels of Shinra HQ R&D during INTERmission, there's plenty of opportunity to form alliances on the inside via unique avenues through characters who aren't fully aligned with ol' Gya ha ha & Kya ha ha that links to lingering threads & teases from the previous two games.

Overall, there're multiple avenues which the Remake & Rebirth have established that could be used in Part 3 to expand upon details about who Zack was not only from what was established in the Compilation, but that also still harkens back to these of VERY early portrayals of his character. Really though, despite the contextual differences in the underlying content being less widely open to interpretation, it's surprising to comb back through all of these older bits of media and see how generally consistent the portrayal of Zack has managed to remain within those constraints.





X :neo:
 

Sorcerologist

Pro Adventurer
I did this through Google translate; apologies for any errors or awkwardness.

Cloud
Respect, rivalry... A former soldier who continues to pursue his nemesis Sephiroth

Date of birth/Age......................August 19/21 years old
Height/blood type....................173cm/AB type
Job...........................................Mercenary (former soldier)
Birthplace.................................Nibelheim Village
Weapon....................................Sword

Cloud, who is quiet and cool, was once a boy who admired Sephiroth, a legendary soldier of the Shinra Company. He came all the way from Nibelheim Village to Midgar to become a soldier, and with his talent for swordsmanship, he was promoted to Soldier 1st class, and before he knew it, he was working together with Sephiroth. Then, five years ago, he visited his hometown of Nibelheim Village on a mission with Sephiroth, and learned the full details of Shinra's top-secret "Jenova Project". Shortly after, Sephiroth suddenly went mad and the village was wiped out. Cloud became a mercenary and has been searching for Sephiroth ever since.

Cloud's lost memories...!
The Nibelheim incident has become Cloud's "trauma." He lost his mother, his hometown, and his relationship of trust with Sephiroth, and he turned from a SOLDIER into a soldier. But he only has fragmentary memories of the incident. He remembers his one-on-one battle with Sephiroth, and wonders why he's still alive? Why has he lost his memory? What secret lies behind this...?
 

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Sorcerologist

Pro Adventurer
Tifa
Cloud's childhood friend who is skilled in martial arts


Birthday/Age: May 3rd/20 years old
Height/Blood type: 167cm/B type
Place of birth: Nibelheim Village
Weapon: Gloves
Job: Poster girl of a restaurant

Tifa is a childhood friend of Cloud's, from the same hometown as him, and one of the survivors of the Nibelheim incident. Back then... Tifa remembers. "I should have been fatally wounded by Sephiroth's sword, so why am I still alive?" Like Cloud, she has many questions about her memories of that incident. Currently, she works at Seventh Heaven, which is ostensibly a diner but is actually the hideout of AVALANCHE, and is popular with the residents.

She is Cloud's childhood friend, and is also a survivor of the Nibelheim incident. She seems to have had feelings for Cloud since they were in their hometown, but she never says it out loud. She must have been very happy when they reunited in Midgar, but she keeps her feelings to herself and does not take any action that would go beyond the role of childhood friends.

One of Avalanche's outstanding members
She also has a self-sacrificing side, not caring about the danger, as seen when she heads alone to the Corneo Mansion in Wall Market to find out more information. Her cheerful and active yet devoted personality, coupled with her 38cm (estimated) miniskirt, makes her very popular with male fans.

Tifa's experience of the Nibelheim incident
Tifa, whose father was killed by Sephiroth, the demon of Nibelheim, challenges Sephiroth to avenge her father's death, but is easily defeated by Sephiroth's long sword. So how is Tifa still alive? There are many mysteries surrounding the Nibelheim incident.
 

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eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
High five for having the specific source citing on those references! Massively appreciated. Since I noticed that you've previously cited the Dengeki PSP Vol. 397 before with specific quotes from that & the CC Ultimania, I was wondering if you happen to know if there're any scans of that issue that're still floating around online somewhere – since it's one of the Dengeki issues that's unfortunately NOT uploaded over on Retromags (which does at least detail that it was from September 2007). Not having much more than the date makes it a bit tougher to go back to get a sense of the time-context-specific information, and if there're any other interesting tidbits tucked away in that issue which might provide some interesting juxtaposition to these V-Jump articles from a decade earlier.

Always extra helpful to have additional mentions of context from folks who still know about them either way.
Sorry, I dont have the scan. I've just got that information from here:

Date of birth/Age......................August 19/21 years old
So, this magazine have wrong information
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
And I expect it will also change his dialogue about that suggest he has many girlfriend he could pick one to crash. It might be the international release, but the JP provide a translation that it really suggest "plural" girl, even though Aerith's letter in Banora make it clearer. I think, with or without carrying Cloud, Zack's fate is still predestined by the ambush, because it's all for returning to the girl he loves. He seems stuck in the Lifestream world only because of that unfulfilled desire.

IIRC the original Japanese doesn't suggest that Zack has plural "girls' places" to crash at, but rather that Japanese as a language doesn't really have specific explicit modifier to indicate whether something is plural like English does, and that instead with Japanese something being plural is basically determined and/or indicated by sentence context or whole other words. So I believe it was more that Zack's original Japanese line was ambiguous enough that a plural reading or a singular reading of the line by itself were both valid ways to read it (if someone was reading it without being aware of the greater plot in general).
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
IIRC the original Japanese doesn't suggest that Zack has plural "girls' places" to crash at, but rather that Japanese as a language doesn't really have specific explicit modifier to indicate whether something is plural like English does, and that instead with Japanese something being plural is basically determined and/or indicated by sentence context or whole other words. So I believe it was more that Zack's original Japanese line was ambiguous enough that a plural reading or a singular reading of the line by itself were both valid ways to read it (if someone was reading it without being aware of the greater plot in general).

The segment of the quote from the flashback that I grabbed in my former post, 「みんなの世話んなって... あ、どの女の子も親といっしょに住んでるのか...」is actually something where Hito's translated that particular nuance for clarity (...albeit like 12 years ago in the LTD thread). So I'll actually just grab that quote directly, before poking around at some other elements to this facet of his character & how it's been portrayed.
:awesomonster:

It was actually multiple girls he was talking about.

The English version only sounds like one person:

Zack
“I know what I'm gonna do.”
Zack
“I got a place I can crash for a while…”
Zack
“No wait, the mother lives there too.”


But the Japanese one talks about a number of girls:

ザックス
「俺はあちこちにあてがあるんだ」
"I've got people I can count all over."

ザックス
みんなの世話んなって……」
"I'll get everyone to help me out..."

ザックス
「あ、どの女の子親といっしょに住んでるのか……」
"Oh, does every girl live with their parents..."

Each line specifically highlight that he's talking about multiple people (the bold parts), rather than the single person he is talking about in the English script.

It's also worth mentioning that on September 9, 2005 when the Ultimania came out, The Maiden Who Travels the Planet was a part of that which also emphasized this particular aspect of Zack being friendly with other girls when he talks to Aerith in the Lifestream. Also, the nuances in the translation of MotP here matter, so while you can get a decent gist of things from that link, it's honestly probably a bit more helpful to toss the relevant Japanese text into Google Translate & DeepL as a way to have as secondary points of comparison since, while machine translations do have their weaknesses, they're still a helpful tool here.

I grabbed the Japanese text from my copy of the Ultimania, so apologies if there're any minor typos in the transcription here. One thing that I want to point out in advance is that in the source text here, Zack gets Western quotation marks when he's speaking, whereas Aerith has Japanese ones quotation marks for her dialogue. (This is important, but I'm gonna revisit why in a moment). I'm gonna keep those in place, but also explicitly differentiate when they're both talking, so that the narration sections are easier to isolate, and I'll italicize those as well.

I'm starting at when Zack first shows up out of the Lifestream & they see each other:
Aerith: 「ザックス! それじゃあなたも、死んでいたの?」

本来なら訊くまでもない問いだったが、エアリスは反射的にそう考え、言葉にしていた。それほどに、 この陽気で腕の立つソルジャーに死は不似合いだった。行方知れずであっても、きっとどこかで無事に暮らしている――そう盲目的に信じていた自分に改めて気づき、この残酷な事実に彼女は強い衝撃を受ける。

Zack: “あなたもって・・・・・・そっちもなのか、エアリス?まあ、俺よりはあとだったんだろうけど、それでも、 その・・・・・・何て言うかな、御愁傷様、かなあ?”
Aerith: 「変わってないわね、もう」

どんな時でも、決して明るさを失わないザックスに、救われたような気持ちでエアリスは苦笑する。 神羅に属するソルジャーだと分かっていながらも、 かつて彼女が惹かれたのはこういうところだった。

Skipping ahead to after they've caught up about Nibelheim & everything else and they're having a direct conversation & farewell:
Zack: “チェッ。エアリスってさ、俺が仲良くなった女の 子の中でやっぱりダントツだったな。あの任務のあ と、ミッドガルに帰れてりゃ、そのままつき合ってたかも知れないのに。俺はセフィロスを恨むよ。あと隠蔽工作をした神羅も”
Aerith: 「そんなにたくさんの女の子と仲良くなっちゃう人とは、絶対恋人になんかなりませんから」
Zack: “ヒドイなあ。俺、誰にだって優しいだけなのに”
Aerith: 「そこがダメなのよ。クラウドみたいに、不器用で純粋なところがないと」
Zack: “それがエアリスの好みだった?”
Aerith: 「さあ、どうかなあ。5年も経って、変わったのかも知れないよ」
Zack: “チェッ”

拗ねたように唇を尖らせ、それからザックスは屈託なく笑った。エアリスが知っている、子供っぽさを残した変わらない笑顔。17歳だった彼女は、そこに惹かれていた。

Zack: “まだ終わったわけじゃないけど、俺は少し眠るよ。今できることはないみたいだからな。でも、寂しかったらいつでも呼んでくれよ、エアリス”
Aerith: 「すごく寂しくなったら、ね。おやすみなさい、ザックス」

So when Zack talks about how they could've gone out after he got back from his mission, he uses the term "つき合ってた" which is dating. A couple years later, Crisis Core would establish that this is something that they've actually done before – so it's a return back to the status quo for them from that time. When Aerith replies that she'd never be the lover of someone who gets along with so many girls, there're a couple of different things to unpack about that.

First is that the key verb Aerith uses to describe Zack's way with girls here is "仲良く" which is getting along or being friendly with someone, which is Zack's core quality towards everyone that makes them really attached to him the way we see with Cissnei in Crisis Core in deciding to help him, and further emphasized in Cissnei's sidequest Woodland Vigil (森に迷うもの) in Rebirth that has the 4 different answers is specifically a part of Aerith's relationship sidequests (Cissnei's responses in Japanese). Since it's relevant, I'll drop in the text for Cissnei's, "Who are you waiting for?" answer for both EN & JP once I've wrapped on going over this section from MotP. The other part of that comment she makes will require a little bit of digging into the text-level design in the original Final Fantasy VII.

While I won't dive TOO deeply into the weeds on this point, all the characters in the party in FFVII have Limit Breaks that are written differently that in a way that gives them a particular cultural tone. Barret, Red XIII, Cait Sith, Vincent, & all but one of Cid's use exclusively Katakana in a way that's VERY Western coded for them as characters. Cloud & Tifa both have a 50/50 split between Katakana & Kanji/Hiragana in a way that makes them feel like very modern Japanese that's a split of East & West like you'd get from somewhere like Midgar (As it's a shared analogy for Tokyo as well as NYC). Yuffie uses exclusively Kanji that are almost all yojijukugo so that she has more of a Chinese & Eastern-centric portrayal with all the ancient Japanese roots being emphasized. (INTERmission plays with this even more and has half of her abilities written in only hiragana so that she seems like more of a child who hasn't learned the kanji yet, even though she knows how to say them, which is also reflected in her vs. Sonon's subtitles). Lastly, Aerith is the ONLY character whose Limit Breaks are all Hiragana & Kanji in a way that feels extremely classically Japanese in a pre-Westernization sort of way that stands out heavily in juxtaposition to everyone else. As the last of the Cetra this also carries some extra weight, but especially in juxtaposition to someone from SOLDIER like Cloud – and by extension Zack.

This is why MotP intentionally using this same sort of character cultural encoding with the dialogue quotation marks between Aerith's 「」vs. Zack's “” stand out as this exact same sort of text-level design that is present in the game menus throughout FFVII that's continued in the Compilation & Remake project. This brings us to Aerith who uses the term lover (恋人) when talking to Zack, which is different from the "Girlfriend" (ガ一ルフレンド) term that Zack has written in his letter, both of which carry this same sort of Eastern & Western dichotomy to them. While there's always a lot of nuance that gets hammered in around specific word choice when it comes to anything LTD-adjacent, I mostly wanted to point out that the differences here are primarly driven by mechanisms of how the cultural traits of both of their characters specifically informs little nuances about the terminology that they use as well.

While there's a little bit of a different implication in addition to that, this mostly gets into the nuances of Aerith's specific feelings and how they've changed since Zack disappeared. This scene in MotP VERY heavily mirrors the way that Zack learns about Aerith having feelings for Cloud in Rebirth from Marlene – where he snaps out of that pouting melancholic state, and just laughs & smiles in that carefree way that he always does which matches Marlene's mood. It's emphasized that that's a trait of Zack's that Aerith's still captivated by, and it's what really drew her to him when she was 17. Again, this is almost EXACTLY how Rebirth's date with Yuffie, she describes developing her very first crush on Zack as a kid because of how nice he was to her when she was a kid... and she's STILL slightly younger now than Aerith was back then.

Yuffie Date JP:
Yuffie: アタシの初恋の相手ソルジャーなんだよね
戦場で出会った たぶんソルジャー
その頃の アタシの最高のワザを出したんだ
シュシュシュシュって
こぶしから 波動が出てるつもりだった
だからアタシはあいつが『やられた』って
倒れたときも 本気にしちゃってさ
でもぜ〜んぶ 文字どおりの子供ダマシ
それに気がついてから
もう あいつのことばかり考えちゃって
いつか 本物の波動をブチこんでやるって
ありえないくらい 修行がんばったんだよね
でもさ よく考えたら優しいよね
ふつーにイイヤツだよね
そんなこと考えてるうちに
ああ 好きかも〜ってさ
そのせいかな
まだ 波動が出ないよ

Cloud: 手伝ってやる

Yuffie: しゅぎょ一?こい?

Cloud: 恋なんて 俺にはわからない

Yuffie: あ〜あ 残念なアタシたちだね〜

<Kisses Cloud on the cheek>

Yuffie: いや~ その なんか
そ〜ゆ〜フンイキかな〜?
って思ったわけよ・・・・・・
とくに 深い意味はないから
おい なんと言え〜!
ああ 憎たらしい!

<Pantomime fight & laughs>

Yuffie: 次 あいつと会ったら どうするべき?

Cloud: そのときはそのとき
たぶん それが正解だ

<Pantomime KO>

Yuffie Date EN:
Yuffie: Dunno what it is about you guys, but... I get it.
I had a thing for a SOLDIER once.
Least I think he was a SOLDIER.
I wanted to prove myself,
so I hit him with my best moves.
Sih, sih, hah! Hmph.
Was like I was firin' energy blasts!
After a few salvos, he shouted, "Ya got me"–
and at the time, I totally bought it.
Of course, he was just playing along for a dumb kid.
And once I realized that, I was pissed.
I couldn't stop thinkin' about him.
I swore to myself that one day I'd blast that jerk for real!
Did some hardcore training so I could give him a beatdown.
But eventually, it dawned on me: he was just being nice.
Like, he was a really nice guy!
And the more I thought about it, the more I realized–
wow–I liked him. Y'know?
Maybe it's because of those feelings that I still can't fire energy blasts.

Cloud: I can help.

Yuffie: With the energy blasts? Or my feelings?

Cloud: The former. Feelings ain't my thing.

Yuffie: Think we both kinda suck in that department.

<Kisses Cloud on the cheek>

Yuffie: I-I mean, th-that is the sorta thing you're supposed to do in these situations–
It was just practice.
So...so don't go thinkin' it means anything, okay!?
Say something!
You're so annoying!

<Pantomime fight & laughs>

Yuffie: Hey, if I ever see that guy again... what should I do?

Cloud: That's up to you. But it if were me...
I'd let him have it.

<Pantomime KO>

However unlike Zack – both Yuffie & Cloud are really clumsy & awkward with their emotions – which is exactly what Aerith points out to Zack about Cloud in the MotP dialogue, where he's not someone who's open and gets close to girls really easily. It's that clumsy quality that Zack asks if Aerith's drawn to, and in Rebirth it's that mutual awkwardness that eventually leads to Cloud play-fighting with Yuffie in that same sort of way that Zack did with her as a kid.

This date has that very endearing, but also very different emotional quality to it as compared to the Aerith & Tifa dates specifically because of the way that it differentiates the emotions. Yuffie even starts off things earlier in the date before the emotions turn to Zack by digging at Cloud & Tifa's past – similarly to how Zack & Aerith's conversation in MotP also starts with backstory about Nibelheim and early elements to relationships with other people (both of which I skipped over transcribing). It provides what I think is one of the more interesting juxtapositions on character relationships that's also a direct reflection of things that were developed about Zack in Crisis Core, where this sort of flirtatious & amicable quality that draws everyone to him gets emphasized into what's treated as canon directly.

This is also what we see qualities of with a very different non-romantic relationship the Cissnei sidequest dialogue:

JP Version: 森に迷うもの
Cissnei: 私の待ち人は・・・・・・もう死んでしまったの
でも 全然そんな気がしなくて
そういうヤツなの
ある目ひょこっと帰ってきそうで
恋愛めいた感情があるわけじゃないわ
でも 気になって仕方がな

Aerith: うん・・・・・・

Cissnei: 顔を見て 安心したいんだよね
そう これは彼のためじゃなくて
私のため

Cloud: なにがあったんだ

Cissnei: 彼の人生の一部を奪ってしまった
その貢任の一端は 私にもある

EN Version: Woodland Vigil
Cissnei: As silly as it sounds... someone who isn't with us anymore.
But he doesn't feel gone.
It's like I wouldn't be surprised if I woke up and one day and saw him outside our gates.
He's not an ex or anything like that. Dunno what he was, but... I really miss the guy.

Aerith: I get it.

Cissnei: Wish I would see him again. Make sure he's alright.
Though if I'm bein' honest–it's just for my sake isn't it? Not his.

Cloud: Something happen between you?

Cissnei: This is gonna sound cryptic and weird, I know, but... I stole part of his life from him–and I gotta carry that.

In the Japanese version the bit of dialogue in around how Zack isn't an ex is more specific that Cissnei doesn't have romantic feelings for him, but she can't help but be curious about how he's doing in a very similar way where Yuffie wouldn't stop thinking about him even after he vanished. This is LITERALLY what Aerith experiences while writing her 88 letters to Zack in Crisis Core, which is why her final letter represents her slightly moving on, but still having that part of herself that's all mixed up by those things with Cloud, and also in returning to Gongaga that she's attempting to sort out for herself – and why she feels guilty about taking to Zack's parents.

When Aerith speaks to Zack's parents in Rebirth, this underlying point is still emphazied, along with the key thing that's the juxtaposition between Zack & Cloud which is how Zack's openness & amicability is in stark juxtaposition to Cloud's shy awkwardness.

JP Version:
Zack's mom: あなたが来た時もてっきり手紙にあったガ一ルフレンドかと思ったの しつこく聞いて ごめんなさいねえ
Aerith: ザックス・・・・・・ガ一ルフレンド 大勢いると思います
EN Version:
Zack's mom: When I first saw you, I thought, "Maybe this is the girl he was always talking about." Sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable.
Aerith: I doubt I was the only woman in his life. Charming guy life Zack...

In the Japanese version, his mom uses the term "Girlfriend" (ガ一ルフレンド) matching to the term used in Zack's letter from Perfect Guide, whereas the English localization doesn't copy that language despite having the explicit English loan-word, but instead works to imply that same sort of connection as well as the way that Aerith's own confliction & insecurities, as well as her feelings for Cloud sort of layer into this complicated perspective on things.

While, like what we got in Last Order, MotP also doesn't have the status of being something that's overtly considered canon compared to the things in the Compilation, it's also still fairly accurate to the overall presentation that's been taken with the characters since then. It's why things like Rebirth using Cissnei's scene & attachment to Zack is something that's meaningfully emphasized while also being differentiated from anything romantic, while Yuffie's focuses how her childhood emotions went through a lot of different feelings, and romantic things are still really new to her at around the age when Aerith & Zack met in Crisis Core.

Lastly, the ending of the MotP dialogue is something that I've saved bringing up until now. Zack says that there isn't anything that he can do now, but that she can always call him if she gets lonely – and she replies only if she gets really lonely, and then tells him goodnight. This is something that she couldn't do for YEARS while he was being experimented on, so it's something that's hard to shift to, but especially with everything still happening with Cloud in the real world. This is where it's notable that Aerith & Zack both show up to help Cloud in Advent Children, and they leave together – which here and in Rebirth are both implied to be connected to things directly as a result of Aerith being one of the Cetra.

The second facet of that is that she tells him goodnight. This is the same thing that Cloud says to Zack when he passes away at the end of Crisis Core. Ultimately the exchange between Aerith & Zack is about giving both of them the types of closure that they never got. They both have the surprised reaction to the definitive discovery that one another are dead, and in the end Zack makes it so that he's available whenever she needs, and she is finally able to know that her final words actually reached him – since she never knew what happened with the letters she sent. There's a lot to this conversation that's more about closure for the things that didn't happen and how things shifted in their lives.

Also, this particular Lifestream exchange in MotP is something that I'm fairly certain that we'll get a version of in part 3 given the way that they've set up all of those elements in Rebirth by showing us both Zack & Aerith both in places outside of the shared reality that everyone else occupies by the end of the game, and which Sephiroth is a threat to – which we see during Tifa's Lifestream experience which took place in the Gongaga reactor. So LOTS of things all tied up into all of those same threads, and just like with the Truck sequence in Last Order & other things, I expect a fair amount of discourse to crop up when we get officially canonized versions of those things.

So, as counterintuitive as it seems – Zack's portrayal in the JP & EN versions being different are BOTH still very much accurate to core qualities of his. However, rather than what it seemed like when only the earliest JP version of the game was out, or even when the International version of the game was released and the Flashback sequence was added – that quality of him being focused on multiple parties has been refined into the more of that puppy-like amicability that makes everyone fall for him regardless of whether or not that comes in tandem with romantic feelings where he has lot of different people to call on. That always carries a sense of those people longing after seeing him again and wanting to help him – even to the point of secretly hoping that he's still alive and happy out there despite often having varying degrees of evidence that he's passed away.

I am curious how much of Zack's character evolution over time is a result of the fact that the English localization of characters to reach a global audience gave them slightly more multi-faceted qualities than they'd had in any single version initially. (Which is also why I really appreciate all the localization work that the Remake Project has had in focusing on ways to deliver the core aspects of those characters accurately, even when the dialogue & conversations won't always achieve that via direct translation).



X :neo:
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
The segment of the quote from the flashback that I grabbed in my former post, 「みんなの世話んなって... あ、どの女の子も親といっしょに住んでるのか...」is actually something where Hito's translated that particular nuance for clarity (...albeit like 12 years ago in the LTD thread). So I'll actually just grab that quote directly, before poking around at some other elements to this facet of his character & how it's been portrayed.
:awesomonster:



It's also worth mentioning that on September 9, 2005 when the Ultimania came out, The Maiden Who Travels the Planet was a part of that which also emphasized this particular aspect of Zack being friendly with other girls when he talks to Aerith in the Lifestream. Also, the nuances in the translation of MotP here matter, so while you can get a decent gist of things from that link, it's honestly probably a bit more helpful to toss the relevant Japanese text into Google Translate & DeepL as a way to have as secondary points of comparison since, while machine translations do have their weaknesses, they're still a helpful tool here.

I grabbed the Japanese text from my copy of the Ultimania, so apologies if there're any minor typos in the transcription here. One thing that I want to point out in advance is that in the source text here, Zack gets Western quotation marks when he's speaking, whereas Aerith has Japanese ones quotation marks for her dialogue. (This is important, but I'm gonna revisit why in a moment). I'm gonna keep those in place, but also explicitly differentiate when they're both talking, so that the narration sections are easier to isolate, and I'll italicize those as well.

I'm starting at when Zack first shows up out of the Lifestream & they see each other:


Skipping ahead to after they've caught up about Nibelheim & everything else and they're having a direct conversation & farewell:


So when Zack talks about how they could've gone out after he got back from his mission, he uses the term "つき合ってた" which is dating. A couple years later, Crisis Core would establish that this is something that they've actually done before – so it's a return back to the status quo for them from that time. When Aerith replies that she'd never be the lover of someone who gets along with so many girls, there're a couple of different things to unpack about that.

First is that the key verb Aerith uses to describe Zack's way with girls here is "仲良く" which is getting along or being friendly with someone, which is Zack's core quality towards everyone that makes them really attached to him the way we see with Cissnei in Crisis Core in deciding to help him, and further emphasized in Cissnei's sidequest Woodland Vigil (森に迷うもの) in Rebirth that has the 4 different answers is specifically a part of Aerith's relationship sidequests (Cissnei's responses in Japanese). Since it's relevant, I'll drop in the text for Cissnei's, "Who are you waiting for?" answer for both EN & JP once I've wrapped on going over this section from MotP. The other part of that comment she makes will require a little bit of digging into the text-level design in the original Final Fantasy VII.

While I won't dive TOO deeply into the weeds on this point, all the characters in the party in FFVII have Limit Breaks that are written differently that in a way that gives them a particular cultural tone. Barret, Red XIII, Cait Sith, Vincent, & all but one of Cid's use exclusively Katakana in a way that's VERY Western coded for them as characters. Cloud & Tifa both have a 50/50 split between Katakana & Kanji/Hiragana in a way that makes them feel like very modern Japanese that's a split of East & West like you'd get from somewhere like Midgar (As it's a shared analogy for Tokyo as well as NYC). Yuffie uses exclusively Kanji that are almost all yojijukugo so that she has more of a Chinese & Eastern-centric portrayal with all the ancient Japanese roots being emphasized. (INTERmission plays with this even more and has half of her abilities written in only hiragana so that she seems like more of a child who hasn't learned the kanji yet, even though she knows how to say them, which is also reflected in her vs. Sonon's subtitles). Lastly, Aerith is the ONLY character whose Limit Breaks are all Hiragana & Kanji in a way that feels extremely classically Japanese in a pre-Westernization sort of way that stands out heavily in juxtaposition to everyone else. As the last of the Cetra this also carries some extra weight, but especially in juxtaposition to someone from SOLDIER like Cloud – and by extension Zack.

This is why MotP intentionally using this same sort of character cultural encoding with the dialogue quotation marks between Aerith's 「」vs. Zack's “” stand out as this exact same sort of text-level design that is present in the game menus throughout FFVII that's continued in the Compilation & Remake project. This brings us to Aerith who uses the term lover (恋人) when talking to Zack, which is different from the "Girlfriend" (ガ一ルフレンド) term that Zack has written in his letter, both of which carry this same sort of Eastern & Western dichotomy to them. While there's always a lot of nuance that gets hammered in around specific word choice when it comes to anything LTD-adjacent, I mostly wanted to point out that the differences here are primarly driven by mechanisms of how the cultural traits of both of their characters specifically informs little nuances about the terminology that they use as well.

While there's a little bit of a different implication in addition to that, this mostly gets into the nuances of Aerith's specific feelings and how they've changed since Zack disappeared. This scene in MotP VERY heavily mirrors the way that Zack learns about Aerith having feelings for Cloud in Rebirth from Marlene – where he snaps out of that pouting melancholic state, and just laughs & smiles in that carefree way that he always does which matches Marlene's mood. It's emphasized that that's a trait of Zack's that Aerith's still captivated by, and it's what really drew her to him when she was 17. Again, this is almost EXACTLY how Rebirth's date with Yuffie, she describes developing her very first crush on Zack as a kid because of how nice he was to her when she was a kid... and she's STILL slightly younger now than Aerith was back then.

Yuffie Date JP:


Yuffie Date EN:



However unlike Zack – both Yuffie & Cloud are really clumsy & awkward with their emotions – which is exactly what Aerith points out to Zack about Cloud in the MotP dialogue, where he's not someone who's open and gets close to girls really easily. It's that clumsy quality that Zack asks if Aerith's drawn to, and in Rebirth it's that mutual awkwardness that eventually leads to Cloud play-fighting with Yuffie in that same sort of way that Zack did with her as a kid.

This date has that very endearing, but also very different emotional quality to it as compared to the Aerith & Tifa dates specifically because of the way that it differentiates the emotions. Yuffie even starts off things earlier in the date before the emotions turn to Zack by digging at Cloud & Tifa's past – similarly to how Zack & Aerith's conversation in MotP also starts with backstory about Nibelheim and early elements to relationships with other people (both of which I skipped over transcribing). It provides what I think is one of the more interesting juxtapositions on character relationships that's also a direct reflection of things that were developed about Zack in Crisis Core, where this sort of flirtatious & amicable quality that draws everyone to him gets emphasized into what's treated as canon directly.

This is also what we see qualities of with a very different non-romantic relationship the Cissnei sidequest dialogue:

JP Version: 森に迷うもの


EN Version: Woodland Vigil



In the Japanese version the bit of dialogue in around how Zack isn't an ex is more specific that Cissnei doesn't have romantic feelings for him, but she can't help but be curious about how he's doing in a very similar way where Yuffie wouldn't stop thinking about him even after he vanished. This is LITERALLY what Aerith experiences while writing her 88 letters to Zack in Crisis Core, which is why her final letter represents her slightly moving on, but still having that part of herself that's all mixed up by those things with Cloud, and also in returning to Gongaga that she's attempting to sort out for herself – and why she feels guilty about taking to Zack's parents.

When Aerith speaks to Zack's parents in Rebirth, this underlying point is still emphazied, along with the key thing that's the juxtaposition between Zack & Cloud which is how Zack's openness & amicability is in stark juxtaposition to Cloud's shy awkwardness.

JP Version:

EN Version:


In the Japanese version, his mom uses the term "Girlfriend" (ガ一ルフレンド) matching to the term used in Zack's letter from Perfect Guide, whereas the English localization doesn't copy that language despite having the explicit English loan-word, but instead works to imply that same sort of connection as well as the way that Aerith's own confliction & insecurities, as well as her feelings for Cloud sort of layer into this complicated perspective on things.

While, like what we got in Last Order, MotP also doesn't have the status of being something that's overtly considered canon compared to the things in the Compilation, it's also still fairly accurate to the overall presentation that's been taken with the characters since then. It's why things like Rebirth using Cissnei's scene & attachment to Zack is something that's meaningfully emphasized while also being differentiated from anything romantic, while Yuffie's focuses how her childhood emotions went through a lot of different feelings, and romantic things are still really new to her at around the age when Aerith & Zack met in Crisis Core.

Lastly, the ending of the MotP dialogue is something that I've saved bringing up until now. Zack says that there isn't anything that he can do now, but that she can always call him if she gets lonely – and she replies only if she gets really lonely, and then tells him goodnight. This is something that she couldn't do for YEARS while he was being experimented on, so it's something that's hard to shift to, but especially with everything still happening with Cloud in the real world. This is where it's notable that Aerith & Zack both show up to help Cloud in Advent Children, and they leave together – which here and in Rebirth are both implied to be connected to things directly as a result of Aerith being one of the Cetra.

The second facet of that is that she tells him goodnight. This is the same thing that Cloud says to Zack when he passes away at the end of Crisis Core. Ultimately the exchange between Aerith & Zack is about giving both of them the types of closure that they never got. They both have the surprised reaction to the definitive discovery that one another are dead, and in the end Zack makes it so that he's available whenever she needs, and she is finally able to know that her final words actually reached him – since she never knew what happened with the letters she sent. There's a lot to this conversation that's more about closure for the things that didn't happen and how things shifted in their lives.

Also, this particular Lifestream exchange in MotP is something that I'm fairly certain that we'll get a version of in part 3 given the way that they've set up all of those elements in Rebirth by showing us both Zack & Aerith both in places outside of the shared reality that everyone else occupies by the end of the game, and which Sephiroth is a threat to – which we see during Tifa's Lifestream experience which took place in the Gongaga reactor. So LOTS of things all tied up into all of those same threads, and just like with the Truck sequence in Last Order & other things, I expect a fair amount of discourse to crop up when we get officially canonized versions of those things.

So, as counterintuitive as it seems – Zack's portrayal in the JP & EN versions being different are BOTH still very much accurate to core qualities of his. However, rather than what it seemed like when only the earliest JP version of the game was out, or even when the International version of the game was released and the Flashback sequence was added – that quality of him being focused on multiple parties has been refined into the more of that puppy-like amicability that makes everyone fall for him regardless of whether or not that comes in tandem with romantic feelings where he has lot of different people to call on. That always carries a sense of those people longing after seeing him again and wanting to help him – even to the point of secretly hoping that he's still alive and happy out there despite often having varying degrees of evidence that he's passed away.

I am curious how much of Zack's character evolution over time is a result of the fact that the English localization of characters to reach a global audience gave them slightly more multi-faceted qualities than they'd had in any single version initially. (Which is also why I really appreciate all the localization work that the Remake Project has had in focusing on ways to deliver the core aspects of those characters accurately, even when the dialogue & conversations won't always achieve that via direct translation).



X :neo:

This is how TurquoiseHammer re-translated those lines for the Shinra Archaeology Cut mod, which also shows how plural subjects/nouns can be used abstractly to still be talking about one person/family. So I would say the original Japanese lines are still ambiguous in how they can be interpreted.
Screenshot 2025-02-05 at 9.04.51 PM.png
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
You didn't haaaave to include the notes lol
Some of them are directly relevant (although the level of rage over "we're" is... wild) :monster:

This is how TurquoiseHammer re-translated those lines for the Shinra Archaeology Cut mod, which also shows how plural subjects/nouns can be used abstractly to still be talking about one person/family. So I would say the original Japanese lines are still ambiguous in how they can be interpreted.
View attachment 17434

TurquoiseHammer's translation notes for the line 「みんなの世話んなって……」 specifically states, "maybe a more accurate translation of this would be "I don't mind freeloadin; off 'em." It's more of a commentary on his character, but... I don't want to dissect this scene to death."

That emphasizes that these alternate translations are completely antithetical to the purpose of analytically breaking down the conflicting details between the JP & EN texts specifically as a means of dissecting the nuances implied about Zack's character in significant detail. Additionally, when it comes to the alternate English lines for the Japanese ones... the singular & plural nuances aren't discussed at all in the translation notes. As such, there isn't really any information that's expanded upon that helps to clarify what the underlying difference is in any level of specificity.

By contrast, this sort of character dissection of Zack was EXACTLY what the purpose of what Hito's EN vs. JP text comparisons that I cited from ye olde LTD thread were for, given the conflicting things that both versions implied about the nature of his relationship to Aerith from them. On top of that, it was specifically doing that by highlighting specific Japanese terms that show explicit plurality in the Japanese text vs. the explicitly singular context in the English text as direct comparison (which is self-evidence since we speak English).


There really isn't any ambiguity about the plurality in the first two Japanese lines at all on their own, and even less so with the context of the previous sentence supporting the continuing chain of thought, since they have subjective context that link to one another. There's barely any possibility for a singular interpretation it in the last one – and even when you stretch so that there is, the context there even ends up being rather self-defeating to that point in terms of what it implies about Zack's character.

Since it's probably helpful, I'll break down the specific details about each of Hito's highlighted terms (and also make them a bit easier to see) so that I can detail exactly how they give explicitly plural context to the Japanese lines. The plurality of this text in Japanese is a big reason for why & how Zack's relationship to various characters is emphasized & portrayed in the ways that it's expanded upon in the Compilation & also in the Remake Project.
ザックス
「俺はあちこちにあてがあるんだ」
"I've got people I can count all over."

The Japanese term Hito highlighted in this first line is あちこち "achikochi" which means "there & here" by explicitly referring to locations both near & far. Japanese has this rhyming repetition as one of the ways where it IS able to be explicitly plural rather than ambiguously plural. This is most often seen where they use the kanji for duplicating the previous kanji as a repetitive rhyming plural. Ex: 私 (watashi = I) >>> 私々 (watashitachi = we), 人 (hito = person) >>> 人々 (hitobito = people), etc. Japanese also has 3 positional terms for by the speaker こち "kochi", by the listener そち "sochi", and far away from both あち "achi", thus when you see this same duplication rhyming combination pattern for あちこち "achikochi" it's explicitly referring to an unstated subject who are distributed across a wide plurality of locations.

So the Japanese line here is explicitly plural rather than being ambiguously plural. It's used in a way where this can't be taken as singular as compared to the English, "I know what I'm gonna do." from the original FFVII English translation... which doesn't really carry any of that contextual information on being singular or plural one way or another at all.

ザックス
みんなの世話んなって……」
"I'll get everyone to help me out..."

The Japanese term Hito highlighted in the second line is みんな "minna" which literally means "everyone" and again is by nature a word that is explicitly plural. This can't be used intended in a statement being used just for a singular person, but beyond that – the "everyone" here is actually the unstated subject of the previous sentence. Thus, in combination with the previous line, this is Zack talking about "everyone" Zack knows "here & there" who he can count on to help him out. That makes this line also specifically explicit as being about multiple people.

This is the Japanese line that's the most stark its direct contrast to the English version's, "I got a place I can crash for a while..." which is very different in that it is explicitly singular about Zack having a plan focused on one location/source of assistance for where he can crash, rather than multiple people all over being able to help him out. The third line is where we get the context of who/what type of people Zack is thinking about.

ザックス
「あ、どの女の子親といっしょに住んでるのか……」
"Oh, does every girl live with their parents..."

This is the ONLY line where there's potential for it to be singular OR plural depending on how he means it... and even then, that's only true if it's spoken in complete isolation from any of the lines before or after.

The first term Hito highlighted in this final line is どの "dono" meaning "which" (and that will make sense in a bit). The second term is the particle "mo" which is used as an "also" when a part of an inclusively plural list, and can be versatile as an "also" particle which can replace the subject marker, as well as combining with location particles in order to make them inclusively plural as well. Thus the term for "girl" 女の子 that both "which" & "also" are pointing to makes this to a statement of, "which girl also" meaning that we have multiple girls being focused on here and not just one. Thus, it's getting to the core of the sentence which is conveying his contemplation about whether every girl lives with their mom, OR wondering if there are some who don't – since that would give him a place to stay.

The combination with あちこち "here & there" and みんな "everyone" as context for this line from the previous sentences collectively create the context that Zack is contemplating multiple places to stay with various different girls who he can all get help from, until he thinks about the fact that they might all live with their moms, and then scraps those plans afterwards. Contextually, this also highlights that Zack's plans also ONLY involve staying with JUST GIRLS, because he doesn't have any guys to rely on... but all the girls probably live with their moms still, so his following lines are scrapping those plans and starting from scratch.

If you only took this one JP line out of context from inheriting context from the previous lines and looked at it as a separate thought in isolation, there could be an interpretation that he knows some girls definitely live with their mom – which in terms of the game's context is really only true of Aerith from the one girl we definitively who Zack knows. In that context, this would be Zack wondering if he knows a girl who doesn't live with her mom, so that he can crash there... in which case, the framing for that being about a singular girl ALSO creates an even bigger context where it would be Zack thinking about staying with someone aside from Aerith. This take just makes the, "Zack as a flirtatious character, rather than an individual who's dedicated to Aerith as his only girlfriend." element to the Japanese context of that line make it seem like his relationship with Aerith is even LESS significant than in the naturally plural version.

This all aligns with the way that Aerith describes him in the original game in both JP & EN texts, and expecting that she wasn't the only girl in his life because of how easily he gets along with other girls, thus making Aerith's love seem more one-sided than Zack's reciprocated feelings towards her. However, this perspective is still thrown into uncertainty because Zack's letter mentions a girlfriend which catches Aerith by surprise. Given that in FFVII, we don't know any details about the relationships that Zack has to any other girls he knows, while that line is ambiguous – these older magazine and other details aren't wrong in the context of the JP original & International versions of the game.

This is directly in opposition to the presentation of the English text which explicitly doesn't have plurality with the line being, "No wait, the mother lives there too." which is making this line convey that it's Zack explicitly ruling out what has been presented as a consistent & continually singular option of being able to go crash at Aerith's place – who we also know was his girlfriend before he disappeared. This reinforces the English context of Zack's only plan being to stay with his girlfriend and then scrapping it because she lives with her mom – which implies a very different level of commitment in Zack's relationship with Aerith.



That's why, when the Compilation kicked off, there's SO MUCH time spent on Zack covering multiple different circumstances with specific emphasis placed on his relationships to everyone else being a facet of his personality. This is especially emphasized on the late-stage relationships to female characters like Cissnei who feel compelled to help him out when he's in trouble, or even Yuffie being continually involved with sending him helpful information during the side missions even though they technically met as enemies. This is always done so that this statement about his knowing people all over to help him out, and wondering if girls all live with their moms remains the same, even as the nature of his emotional relationship to Aerith as a girl to stay with is still contextually differentiated from his relationships to the other girls he could be referring to when thinking about a place to lay low.

The other thing that comes into play is that Zack's story in Crisis Core is primarily him stuck struggling to help out his male friends – Angeal, Genesis, Sephiroth, Lazard, Cloud, etc. like Essai & Sebastian are either dead or incapacitated, or like Kunsel aren't in a position to be able to assist him without being forced to turn against the company – which has been the core of his struggles and rules out him reaching out to them. Even Cissnei only becomes someone he trusts because she keeps intervening in a way that only the Turks can do, since they're departmentally shielded from consequences for operational deviance – which we know from our relationship with them in Final Fantasy VII and how that's very different from the constraints over the army & SOLDIER under Heideggar's command.

Thus, post-Compilation, the Japanese text can refer to Cissnei & Aerith and remain as-is with its explicit plurality, while ALSO having a very different underlying contextual portrayal of what he's implying with it, given what the nature of his connection to any other girls is like (which is why the rest of my last post dove into breaking down those various relationships and how they're conveyed in more detail). What this means is that the end result of all that additional character context with Zack allows him to retain the same underlying characterization as the singular version in the English text in the significance of his relationship to Aerith being unlike the relationship he has to others, while nothing in the Japanese lines themselves need to be altered to achieve that.



The other point that's worth mentioning is that Rebirth shows Zack handing off the dazed Cloud to Kyrie, showing just how easily he's able to instantly rely on any girl he comes to with basically no pretext – even when she is notoriously flakey. After that we see him getting along with Elmyra & Marlene a majority of the time as further showcases of Zack having a plurality of relationships to other girls helping him out – all of which are still primarily in service of getting back to & taking care of Aerith. Thus, the Japanese version of his character benefits from that expanded content as additional context to allow it to stand alone in the absence of anything from the Compilation, even if they do end up retaining those lines in the Truck flashback rather than skipping over them like they've done since then.



X :neo:
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Some of them are directly relevant (although the level of rage over "we're" is... wild) :monster:



TurquoiseHammer's translation notes for the line 「みんなの世話んなって……」 specifically states, "maybe a more accurate translation of this would be "I don't mind freeloadin; off 'em." It's more of a commentary on his character, but... I don't want to dissect this scene to death."

That emphasizes that these alternate translations are completely antithetical to the purpose of analytically breaking down the conflicting details between the JP & EN texts specifically as a means of dissecting the nuances implied about Zack's character in significant detail. Additionally, when it comes to the alternate English lines for the Japanese ones... the singular & plural nuances aren't discussed at all in the translation notes. As such, there isn't really any information that's expanded upon that helps to clarify what the underlying difference is in any level of specificity.

By contrast, this sort of character dissection of Zack was EXACTLY what the purpose of what Hito's EN vs. JP text comparisons that I cited from ye olde LTD thread were for, given the conflicting things that both versions implied about the nature of his relationship to Aerith from them. On top of that, it was specifically doing that by highlighting specific Japanese terms that show explicit plurality in the Japanese text vs. the explicitly singular context in the English text as direct comparison (which is self-evidence since we speak English).


There really isn't any ambiguity about the plurality in the first two Japanese lines at all on their own, and even less so with the context of the previous sentence supporting the continuing chain of thought, since they have subjective context that link to one another. There's barely any possibility for a singular interpretation it in the last one – and even when you stretch so that there is, the context there even ends up being rather self-defeating to that point in terms of what it implies about Zack's character.

Since it's probably helpful, I'll break down the specific details about each of Hito's highlighted terms (and also make them a bit easier to see) so that I can detail exactly how they give explicitly plural context to the Japanese lines. The plurality of this text in Japanese is a big reason for why & how Zack's relationship to various characters is emphasized & portrayed in the ways that it's expanded upon in the Compilation & also in the Remake Project.


The Japanese term Hito highlighted in this first line is あちこち "achikochi" which means "there & here" by explicitly referring to locations both near & far. Japanese has this rhyming repetition as one of the ways where it IS able to be explicitly plural rather than ambiguously plural. This is most often seen where they use the kanji for duplicating the previous kanji as a repetitive rhyming plural. Ex: 私 (watashi = I) >>> 私々 (watashitachi = we), 人 (hito = person) >>> 人々 (hitobito = people), etc. Japanese also has 3 positional terms for by the speaker こち "kochi", by the listener そち "sochi", and far away from both あち "achi", thus when you see this same duplication rhyming combination pattern for あちこち "achikochi" it's explicitly referring to an unstated subject who are distributed across a wide plurality of locations.

So the Japanese line here is explicitly plural rather than being ambiguously plural. It's used in a way where this can't be taken as singular as compared to the English, "I know what I'm gonna do." from the original FFVII English translation... which doesn't really carry any of that contextual information on being singular or plural one way or another at all.



The Japanese term Hito highlighted in the second line is みんな "minna" which literally means "everyone" and again is by nature a word that is explicitly plural. This can't be used intended in a statement being used just for a singular person, but beyond that – the "everyone" here is actually the unstated subject of the previous sentence. Thus, in combination with the previous line, this is Zack talking about "everyone" Zack knows "here & there" who he can count on to help him out. That makes this line also specifically explicit as being about multiple people.

This is the Japanese line that's the most stark its direct contrast to the English version's, "I got a place I can crash for a while..." which is very different in that it is explicitly singular about Zack having a plan focused on one location/source of assistance for where he can crash, rather than multiple people all over being able to help him out. The third line is where we get the context of who/what type of people Zack is thinking about.



This is the ONLY line where there's potential for it to be singular OR plural depending on how he means it... and even then, that's only true if it's spoken in complete isolation from any of the lines before or after.

The first term Hito highlighted in this final line is どの "dono" meaning "which" (and that will make sense in a bit). The second term is the particle "mo" which is used as an "also" when a part of an inclusively plural list, and can be versatile as an "also" particle which can replace the subject marker, as well as combining with location particles in order to make them inclusively plural as well. Thus the term for "girl" 女の子 that both "which" & "also" are pointing to makes this to a statement of, "which girl also" meaning that we have multiple girls being focused on here and not just one. Thus, it's getting to the core of the sentence which is conveying his contemplation about whether every girl lives with their mom, OR wondering if there are some who don't – since that would give him a place to stay.

The combination with あちこち "here & there" and みんな "everyone" as context for this line from the previous sentences collectively create the context that Zack is contemplating multiple places to stay with various different girls who he can all get help from, until he thinks about the fact that they might all live with their moms, and then scraps those plans afterwards. Contextually, this also highlights that Zack's plans also ONLY involve staying with JUST GIRLS, because he doesn't have any guys to rely on... but all the girls probably live with their moms still, so his following lines are scrapping those plans and starting from scratch.

If you only took this one JP line out of context from inheriting context from the previous lines and looked at it as a separate thought in isolation, there could be an interpretation that he knows some girls definitely live with their mom – which in terms of the game's context is really only true of Aerith from the one girl we definitively who Zack knows. In that context, this would be Zack wondering if he knows a girl who doesn't live with her mom, so that he can crash there... in which case, the framing for that being about a singular girl ALSO creates an even bigger context where it would be Zack thinking about staying with someone aside from Aerith. This take just makes the, "Zack as a flirtatious character, rather than an individual who's dedicated to Aerith as his only girlfriend." element to the Japanese context of that line make it seem like his relationship with Aerith is even LESS significant than in the naturally plural version.

This all aligns with the way that Aerith describes him in the original game in both JP & EN texts, and expecting that she wasn't the only girl in his life because of how easily he gets along with other girls, thus making Aerith's love seem more one-sided than Zack's reciprocated feelings towards her. However, this perspective is still thrown into uncertainty because Zack's letter mentions a girlfriend which catches Aerith by surprise. Given that in FFVII, we don't know any details about the relationships that Zack has to any other girls he knows, while that line is ambiguous – these older magazine and other details aren't wrong in the context of the JP original & International versions of the game.

This is directly in opposition to the presentation of the English text which explicitly doesn't have plurality with the line being, "No wait, the mother lives there too." which is making this line convey that it's Zack explicitly ruling out what has been presented as a consistent & continually singular option of being able to go crash at Aerith's place – who we also know was his girlfriend before he disappeared. This reinforces the English context of Zack's only plan being to stay with his girlfriend and then scrapping it because she lives with her mom – which implies a very different level of commitment in Zack's relationship with Aerith.



That's why, when the Compilation kicked off, there's SO MUCH time spent on Zack covering multiple different circumstances with specific emphasis placed on his relationships to everyone else being a facet of his personality. This is especially emphasized on the late-stage relationships to female characters like Cissnei who feel compelled to help him out when he's in trouble, or even Yuffie being continually involved with sending him helpful information during the side missions even though they technically met as enemies. This is always done so that this statement about his knowing people all over to help him out, and wondering if girls all live with their moms remains the same, even as the nature of his emotional relationship to Aerith as a girl to stay with is still contextually differentiated from his relationships to the other girls he could be referring to when thinking about a place to lay low.

The other thing that comes into play is that Zack's story in Crisis Core is primarily him stuck struggling to help out his male friends – Angeal, Genesis, Sephiroth, Lazard, Cloud, etc. like Essai & Sebastian are either dead or incapacitated, or like Kunsel aren't in a position to be able to assist him without being forced to turn against the company – which has been the core of his struggles and rules out him reaching out to them. Even Cissnei only becomes someone he trusts because she keeps intervening in a way that only the Turks can do, since they're departmentally shielded from consequences for operational deviance – which we know from our relationship with them in Final Fantasy VII and how that's very different from the constraints over the army & SOLDIER under Heideggar's command.

Thus, post-Compilation, the Japanese text can refer to Cissnei & Aerith and remain as-is with its explicit plurality, while ALSO having a very different underlying contextual portrayal of what he's implying with it, given what the nature of his connection to any other girls is like (which is why the rest of my last post dove into breaking down those various relationships and how they're conveyed in more detail). What this means is that the end result of all that additional character context with Zack allows him to retain the same underlying characterization as the singular version in the English text in the significance of his relationship to Aerith being unlike the relationship he has to others, while nothing in the Japanese lines themselves need to be altered to achieve that.



The other point that's worth mentioning is that Rebirth shows Zack handing off the dazed Cloud to Kyrie, showing just how easily he's able to instantly rely on any girl he comes to with basically no pretext – even when she is notoriously flakey. After that we see him getting along with Elmyra & Marlene a majority of the time as further showcases of Zack having a plurality of relationships to other girls helping him out – all of which are still primarily in service of getting back to & taking care of Aerith. Thus, the Japanese version of his character benefits from that expanded content as additional context to allow it to stand alone in the absence of anything from the Compilation, even if they do end up retaining those lines in the Truck flashback rather than skipping over them like they've done since then.



X :neo:

I should have been more clear, yeah I don't disagree that the first two lines are pretty explicitly plural in Japanese.
My point was that the last line, be it translated and phrased like hito's "Oh, does every girl live with their parents" or Turq's "Oh, but girls that age always live with their parents..." while using plural language is still ambiguous in regards to whether the subject Zack is referring to and thinking about is singular or plural. Since it isn't uncommon that plural language/statements can used to describe a singular subject, like how parents might describes the interests of singular son with phrases like "oh every boy loves dinosaurs and trucks when they are little" or "kids that age just go crazy for sugary treats".
So I'd say even with just OG by itself (and not even bothering taking the greater compilation into account), while it is evident that Zack has multiple people that he can depend on for help and aide, whether he was thinking about staying at multiple girls' houses or was just primarily thinking about Aerith's home as a possibility, both are valid interpretations of that specific third line.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I should have been more clear, yeah I don't disagree that the first two lines are pretty explicitly plural in Japanese.
My point was that the last line, be it translated and phrased like hito's "Oh, does every girl live with their parents" or Turq's "Oh, but girls that age always live with their parents..." while using plural language is still ambiguous in regards to whether the subject Zack is referring to and thinking about is singular or plural. Since it isn't uncommon that plural language/statements can used to describe a singular subject, like how parents might describes the interests of singular son with phrases like "oh every boy loves dinosaurs and trucks when they are little" or "kids that age just go crazy for sugary treats".
So I'd say even with just OG by itself (and not even bothering taking the greater compilation into account), while it is evident that Zack has multiple people that he can depend on for help and aide, whether he was thinking about staying at multiple girls' houses or was just primarily thinking about Aerith's home as a possibility, both are valid interpretations of that specific third line.

Ah, ok. That makes a lot more sense for a version of the ambiguity around that third line. The context of not being able to stay at Aerith's/multiple girls' places and then scrapping his plans completely in the following line with the other two being explicitly plural is a bit odd, but it does give it a bit more wiggle room.

Most of the debate about what to do there happened in Discord DMs instead lol
View attachment 17435

Thanks for peeling back the layer of the black box of Discord! :awesomonster:

This is one of the inherent issues with translation, as there are lots of points where it's hard to convey mirroring concepts with the same language, especially when nuances of the respective cultures don't link up.

Most recently it makes me think of, Hamaguchi's comments about Aerith being like an older sister to Cloud, because Cloud's mom says that he needs a girl that's older who'll take care of him – which in Japanese is the onee-san-type (literally older sister), but since people translated that Aerith is like an older sister for Cloud and English basically only uses sibling comparisons for non-romantic relationship context, the shipping crowd went nuts over that.

Something like the Zack line doesn't really have any of the extant context to more concretely define his dialogue to make that an easy thing to translate without needing to make assumptions, which is really more the fact that the re-adaptations of that scene thus far have explicitly avoided ever revisiting those lines, so there's no updated alternative translations / localizations of this which is something that's more an issue with the text itself than the fandom per se – even if the shipping fandom is a very loud part of the issue that stems from those things.

While English has its own weird contexts around ambiguous plurals like how, "I need you to do this." could be referring to a singular individual or a whole group – or saying, "He cut his hair." could be about one person or two people. Lots of languages... just can't do that the same ways, so translators end up either needing to change the line or ask the creators directly for which version is accurate. I have to do this sort of thing by getting Designers to explain what the purpose of images is to distill something into accurate alt-text, since there're countless ways to describe an image, but very few that are accurate to the intent for why that image in particular is being used where & how it is, so it's a very familiar struggle from a slightly different direction (a11y rather than i18n).

Baby Sephiroth punching Hojo
This is perhaps the most iconic reaction image for FFVII that I've ever seen.

(I can't believe that we haven't gotten this as story content yet in Ever Crisis).



X :neo:
 
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