Does Vincent's Love For Lucrecia Blind Him To Her Faults And Actions?

jazzflower92 · Feb 12, 2013

I know that Vincent has and probably will never truly get over Lucrecia.Some think its to the point that he blames himself for events that were partially her fault than his.Does anyone think that Vincent is blind to Lucrecia's actions and faults because of his love for her.

ForceStealer · Feb 12, 2013

Absolutely.

He got better though. He may not get over her in the sense that he has feelings for her, but he figured out he wasn't to blame.

LicoriceAllsorts · Feb 13, 2013

No, his own low self-esteem, and his subconscious desire to sabotage any chances he might have had for happiness in order to punish himself for, as he saw it, failing to life up to his father's expectations - these things are what led him to fall in love with a woman whom he subliminally knew would not only never return his love, but was constitutionally incapable of feeling love. Far from being blind to her failings, they were what attracted him. Maybe.

Ryushikaze · Feb 17, 2013

I wouldn't say she was incapable of feeling love, but I think she too, suffered from her own deep rooted psychological issues, especially those regarding Vincent's dad. In a way, the problem with her character comes from the fact that she's not expressed as being crazy enough, so she comes off as cold and manipulative, instead of self loathing and self punishing.

jazzflower92 · Feb 17, 2013

Ryushikaze said:
I wouldn't say she was incapable of feeling love, but I think she too, suffered from her own deep rooted psychological issues, especially those regarding Vincent's dad. In a way, the problem with her character comes from the fact that she's not expressed as being crazy enough, so she comes off as cold and manipulative, instead of self loathing and self punishing.

Yeah,Lucrecia's problems seem to be self afflicting with the choices she has made in her life.Like with Grimoire's death,pushing Vincent away,marrying Hojo,and willingly experimenting on her unborn son.Actually the last one is probably the thing I really can't excuse her all that much on.I mean with Grimoire's death it was an accident but injecting her son with alien cells is just pure selfishness.I believe all her problems are rooted in her selfishness which are connected with at least more of her decisions and actions.I sometimes believe even she is thinking she is doing something for others it is actually in her own benefit.

Roger · Feb 19, 2013

He has difficulty holding it all against her but he wasn't blind to them, he knew what they were doing to Sephiroth was messed up.

Unlucky · Mar 24, 2013

LicoriceAllsorts said:
No, his own low self-esteem, and his subconscious desire to sabotage any chances he might have had for happiness in order to punish himself for, as he saw it, failing to life up to his father's expectations - these things are what led him to fall in love with a woman whom he subliminally knew would not only never return his love, but was constitutionally incapable of feeling love. Far from being blind to her failings, they were what attracted him. Maybe.

I never really thought it's intended to be this way, but I like how you look at it. It justifies why he's still in love with that tramp Lucrecia when I find it abysmal to even like her after what she's done to him and to herself.

Vinnie's cool, but his taste in women: :sickmonster:

jazzflower92 · Mar 24, 2013

Unlucky said:
I never really thought it's intended to be this way, but I like how you look at it. It justifies why he's still in love with that tramp Lucrecia when I find it abysmal to even like her after what she's done to him and to herself.

Vinnie's cool, but his taste in women:

I have a feeling that Vinnie DILP's Lucrecia a little and trys to make her into a blameless Madonna.She isn't a villanous character but a lot of her actions just shows her to be a selfish person who is weak willed and often makes stupid decisions that hurt other people.Sometimes I occasionally feel sorry for her but then I am reminded that a lot of her sorrows were self afflicted and could have been avoived if she was less self centered.

Jiro · Mar 25, 2013

Lucrecia's more of a tool to create a bit of sympathy with Vincent, more than a direct sympathetic character herself.

jazzflower92 · Mar 25, 2013

Jiro said:
Lucrecia's more of a tool to create a bit of sympathy with Vincent, more than a direct sympathetic character herself.

Thats why Dirge Of Cerebrus failed so bad at expanding Lucrecia's character because they made her more into an angsty plot device than an actual character to connect with.

Also one thing that I note is the fact in the OG she was obsessing about Sephiroth and didn't seem to care that Vincent was alive plus even told him to stay away from her but in Dirge Of Cerebrus all she seems to do is focus on him and proclaim how sorry she is that she screwed up his life.

Unlucky · Mar 25, 2013

Jiro said:
Lucrecia's more of a tool to create a bit of sympathy with Vincent

And at that she is a phail. In my opinion she did more harm than good to his character. I thought sleeping for three decades to 'atone' was really stupid, and now it's even more ridiculous because he's head over heels in love with this woman.

But yeah, it's all because of the expansion of her story and character in DoC.

jazzflower92 · Mar 25, 2013

Yeah,especially at the end of the game where he says she is the reason he survived.

I think the more accurate thing to say she is the reason for a lot of his pain in the first place.

The Twilight Mexican · Mar 25, 2013

About her telling Vince to stay away from her in the OG: I think that was more because the OG canon held that the Jenova cells inside her made her hideous.

Arianna · Mar 25, 2013

jazzflower92 said:
I know that Vincent has and probably will never truly get over Lucrecia.Some think its to the point that he blames himself for events that were partially her fault than his.Does anyone think that Vincent is blind to Lucrecia's actions and faults because of his love for her.

I personally will say that yes, I think Vincent's love for Lucrecia blinds him to some degree to her faults - or at least did, when he was first in love with her. I am sure he loves her despite those faults.

jazzflower92 · Mar 25, 2013

Hawkeye said:
About her telling Vince to stay away from her in the OG: I think that was more because the OG canon held that the Jenova cells inside her made her hideous.

Another thing they retconned in Dirge Of Cerebrus because she is freaking beautiful and is frozen in crystal as well.

Also the more I think about it the Grimoire thing wasn't really needed.All they could have done is actually shown Lucrecia as Gast's assistant as she was said to be in the OG.I mean it would have in my opinion been a better story if they did it instead because Grimoire just seems like a bad plot device for drama instead of a real character.Also Gast needs some screentime as well because he is really underdeveloped on the other hand he could have suffered the same fate as Lucrecia and be made unsympathetic.

Also they could have kept the original reason that Lucrecia chose Hojo over Vincent.Mainly because if I remember she felt pity over him because of his envy of Gast as a scientist.I mean now that I think about it might have been even more apporiate that Gast should have appeared in Dirge Of Cerebrus instead of Grimoire.

Kermitu Kleric Katie · Mar 25, 2013

Yeah, DoC had terrible writing. Probably because they didn't have Nojima for it. I kinda hope one of these days they'll remake DoC and have Nojima as head writer, and that he''ll fix all the bad things with DoC's writing.

jazzflower92 · Mar 25, 2013

I find it ironic that the only one who actually points out her actions is Hojo.Also when Lucrecia was having visions about Sephiroth's deeds to come should have actually made her question more and more about her child being apart of the project.Thats my biggiest gripe is the fact that Vincent actually cared more about her and her unborn child's saftey more than Hojo did but she brushed him off.When the father of your child doesn't care about the potential danger about experimenting on yourself and your unborn son plus you go along with it then you have crossed a moral line.

Yeah,Vincent is really stupid about his love for Lucrecia but seeing him trying to do the right thing and get royally messed up kinda makes one feel more sorry for him.

Unlucky · Mar 25, 2013

My memory of Vinnie and Lucrecia's interaction in the OG,as well as some DoC details is hazy so I might miss some important points to consider here but, how much better would it have been if:

1. Lucrecia was already married to Hojo before she realized she liked Vincent, making it legitimately hard for her? No more lame plot device that is Grimoire.

2. That Lucrecia was experimented on against her will (because Hojo has a thing for that), or that she initially agreed but was being threatened/apprehended by Shinra when she wanted out?

It'll make her more tolerable, and Vincent less stupid because this time he's actually helping someone who wants to be helped.

jazzflower92 · Mar 25, 2013

Unlucky said:
My memory of Vinnie and Lucrecia's interaction in the OG,as well as some DoC details is hazy so I might miss some important points to consider here but, how much better would it have been if:

1. Lucrecia was already married to Hojo before she realized she liked Vincent, making it legitimately hard for her? No more lame plot device that is Grimoire.

2. That Lucrecia was experimented on against her will (because Hojo has a thing for that), or that she initially agreed but was being threatened/apprehended by Shinra when she wanted out?

It'll make her more tolerable, and Vincent less stupid because this time he's actually helping someone who wants to be helped.

If I remember correctly in the Ultimanias there were some early notes about the fact that originally Lucrecia was actually going to be forced to be experimented and was originally against it plus sided with Vincent against experimenting on her own child.

Unlucky · Mar 25, 2013

Yes I've read that before. If they hadn't changed that the story could've been less sucky.

jazzflower92 · Mar 25, 2013

Unlucky said:
Yes I've read that before. If they hadn't changed that the story could've been less sucky.

I agree with that and it would have made Lucrecia a more tolerable character.Plus I wouldn't put it pass Hojo to force his own wife into a project she would have objected to.I also think they should have explained more of Gast's role in the project as well since he worked with Lucrecia and Hojo on it.

ForceStealer · Mar 25, 2013

Eh. I prefer it that Lucrecia was a willing participant that came to regret it. Makes for a better contrast to Hojo.

Unlucky · Mar 25, 2013

That could work too. I just hope they presented it better in the game.

jazzflower92 · Mar 25, 2013

ForceStealer said:
Eh. I prefer it that Lucrecia was a willing participant that came to regret it. Makes for a better contrast to Hojo.

I kinda of wished they stuck with what was in the Ultimanias for the reason why Lucrecia chose Hojo over Vincent.Grimoire was really a tacked on plot piece for drama.I mean they could have played up also Hojo and Gast's rivalry because in the Ultimanias Lucrecia was said to have maternal concerns about Hojo because of what she percieved him having a inferiority complex.

ForceStealer · Mar 25, 2013

Lucrecia being forced into it would just be yet another "Hey, look at what a dick that Hojo guy is" thing to throw on the pile. There are no shortage of those. Lucrecia shows someone who was just as blinded by her scientific ambition, but wasn't psychopathic enough to completely lack emotions and wasn't prepared the emotional attachment to her son she was never permitted to see. She was overwhelmed and went so far as to attempt suicide.

I still hesitate to say she has much of a conscience. Her biggest regret is not the horror her experiments unleashed, but that she wasn't able to ever hold her son. That's still a human regret and can be empathized with. But it's still selfish, considering.

Does Vincent's Love For Lucrecia Blind Him To Her Faults And Actions?

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