Does Vincent's Love For Lucrecia Blind Him To Her Faults And Actions?

[jazzflower92]

Lucrecia being forced into it would just be yet another "Hey, look at what a dick that Hojo guy is" thing to throw on the pile. There are no shortage of those. Lucrecia shows someone who was just as blinded by her scientific ambition, but wasn't psychopathic enough to completely lack emotions and wasn't prepared the emotional attachment to her son she was never permitted to see. She was overwhelmed and went so far as to attempt suicide.

I still hesitate to say she has much of a conscience. Her biggest regret is not the horror her experiments unleashed, but that she wasn't able to ever hold her son. That's still a human regret and can be empathized with. But it's still selfish, considering.

As one could note is the fact that her selfishness seems to be her biggiest character flaw couple that with her rashness and compitveness as well.She defiantly wanted to show everyone at the science department at Shinra that her thesis as right and went on to mess with Chaos which got Grimoire killed.Although I still think Grimoire should have been left out completely.

Plus her son turned into a homicidal maniac that killed many people and almost destroyed the world.Yeah,she is kinda of like the scientists in Jurassic Park who were blinded by ambition and don't realize until its too late how they massively screwed up.Lucrecia was so concerned if she could recreate an ancient using her own unborn child that she never really stopped to think if she should until it was too late to do anything.I don't think Lucrecia really understands the weight of what her actions have brought upon the world.

 

[ForceStealer]

And you lose all of that if Hojo just forced her to do it.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Lucrecia viewing Sephiroth as her son enough to want to hold him puts her miles ahead of just about every other scientist in FFVII. I get the feeling she'd be the only one who would want not to do the experiments if she could redo everything.

 

[jazzflower92]

And you lose all of that if Hojo just forced her to do it.

I mean even Vincent who was a Turk saw that there was something wrong about doing expermintation on an unborn child.Then again she works for Shinra which expects its scientists to cross moral lines.I think the only time they grow a concious is when it personally affects them or like Reeve slowly realize through seeing Shinra's actions that they are working for an evil organization.

 

[Unlucky]

I like Force's take on it.

Lucrecia's willingness, along with the addition of Hollander (who defects because of his rivalry with Hojo and not because he disagrees with Shinra's methods) reflect that maybe the whole department collectively has no qualms about crossing moral boundaries in the name of science. It's not solely Hojo being 'evil'.

But like I said, I just wish it was handled properly.

Also:

About her telling Vince to stay away from her in the OG: I think that was more because the OG canon held that the Jenova cells inside her made her hideous.

How I wish they'd kept this. Resting in stasis in the crystal with her arms folded like a saint in that dress is just laughable. If she was made hideous her suffering would have more impact on me.

 

[ForceStealer]

That would have been pretty cool, but I admit I never knew that before it was said here and her FF7 model certainly didn't reflect that.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I guess the "I couldn't be with anyone" line may have somewhat implied it, but, yeah, the character model certainly didn't reflect it.

 

[Unlucky]

If this is ever retconned, I want Lucrecia to be so hideous, you'd pick Jenova over her

 

[jazzflower92]

If this is ever retconned, I want Lucrecia to be so hideous, you'd pick Jenova over her

Then again Hojo did technically pick Jenova over Lucrecia if one thinks about it.Lucrecia was only useful to him for bearing Sephiroth and he erased her presence by pretending that Jenova was Sephiroth's birth mother.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^^Hojo picks Jenova over anyone...

 

[jazzflower92]

^^Hojo picks Jenova over anyone...

Then again Hojo did just see Lucrecia as a surrogate while Jenova in his mind was Sephiroth's true mother.

 

[Jiro]

Hojo is a mad bastard but we already knew that. I, too, think that Lucrecia should've actually been a little more fucked up to help make her sympathetic; I mean, her son being Sephiroth is a sad thing and all, but mostly she just seems way too angsty.

She doesn't even seem to realise her son is a prick and she doesn't need to feel sorry for him any more. Also, the more ridiculous Lucrecia is, the less normal Vincent seems. I know a lot of people hate him because he is also an angsty knob, but that's just because he's hung up on stuff which theoretically should be way worse than it appears in the OG.

Nothing is perfect but I feel like, if you're gonna bother putting in secret threads like this, you should probably make them a little more sensible. Although the whole vampire-esque thing is more funny than serious, so I dunno.

Also I dunno if I responded to the thread title directly yet but "Yes." Lucrecia is a fool at best.

 

[Unlucky]

She was annoying all through out, but what really did my head in (among other things she said) was when Vincent asked her if she's sure about involving her child in their experiment. And she shouts at him, "Am I sure? AM I SURE???"

If I was Vinnie I'd be like, Lol fuck you beatch you're on your own

 

[jazzflower92]

She was annoying all through out, but what really did my head in (among other things she said) was when Vincent asked her if she's sure about involving her child in their experiment. And she shouts at him, "Am I sure? AM I SURE???"

If I was Vinnie I'd be like, Lol fuck you beatch you're on your own

And of course Vincent still sticks around for her safety.Of course what does it show for him;first he gets shot by Hojo when he goes to complain about Lucrecia's condition,second he is then used as an experiment to house four demons including Chaos,third he needs a special object to keep himself from going insane,fourth then locks himself in a coffin for decades to wallow in his pity.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8932078/1/Messing-With-Valentine

Yuffie can probably tell like it is about the Vincent/Hojo/Lucrecia mess.

 

[ForceStealer]

She was annoying all through out, but what really did my head in (among other things she said) was when Vincent asked her if she's sure about involving her child in their experiment. And she shouts at him, "Am I sure? AM I SURE???"

She was offended that he implied she hadn't thought it through, right? Then the next line, "If this only concerns me, then yes, I am sure," implied to me she thought she was doing this for the good of all. Be it an Ancient to take them to the promised land or what have you.
I've seen women blow up for less

And of course Vincent still sticks around for her safety.

In fairness, those were his orders. He was a Turk assigned to their protection.

 

[jazzflower92]

She was offended that he implied she hadn't thought it through, right? Then the next line, "If this only concerns me, then yes, I am sure," implied to me she thought she was doing this for the good of all. Be it an Ancient to take them to the promised land or what have you.
I've seen women blow up for less



In fairness, those were his orders. He was a Turk assigned to their protection.

I mean on a personal level.Vincent taking orders would be just professional it gets personal when he decides to be concern for her own saftey when conducting this project.

Yes,she says she was doing this for the good of all but then again that could be a cover up for her selfish desire to be apart of an experiment that could get her fame and possible recognition in the science community.

 

[ForceStealer]

Oh it absolutely is. I'm just saying that's why I thought she blew up at the question.

 

[jazzflower92]

Oh it absolutely is. I'm just saying that's why I thought she blew up at the question.

It does put her even more in a shrewish light though because she sees Vincent's concerns as just getting in the way of doing something that will help herself in the science community.The sweet irony that after she has given birth to Sephiroth her presence is then erased from the project and Jenova is replaced in all files as Sephiroth's mother.

To twist the knife even more the thing they experimented their son on isn't even an Ancient but a parastic alien that was the reason for the Cetra's destruction.Plus instead of him being able to reach the Promise Land he turns into a omicidial maniac that wants to destroy the world to become a god then later decided just become Jenova 2.0.

 

[ForceStealer]

It's not like she was lying that she thought it was for the greater good while personally holding that it would give her recognition. The two were one in the same in her mind. She's not evil like Hojo is evil, she's just blinded by scientific ambition. Hojo isn't blinded, he just doesn't give a crap.

 

[jazzflower92]

It's not like she was lying that she thought it was for the greater good while personally holding that it would give her recognition. The two were one in the same in her mind. She's not evil like Hojo is evil, she's just blinded by scientific ambition. Hojo isn't blinded, he just doesn't give a crap.

That brings up another point because in DOC Hojo in the flashbacks seemed so obviously unpleasant that even if Lucrecia was trying to push Vincent away she could have found someone less repulsive.Then again Lucrecia and Hojo did share the same passion for science.Though in my opinion I see Hojo as a bad influence that encouraged her to cross moral and ethical lines in the name of scientific ambition.That doesn't excuse her for choosing to do it because she did have the free will to stop and consider how this actually could have a bad affect on her unborn child.However,her role as a scientist upsurped her role as a mother to protect her child from possible harm.

And yes Hojo couldn't give a hoot about what consequences his experiments would cause.I mean there is a reason why in Crisis Core a lot the scientists have lot of negative things to say about Hojo.I have a feeling there is a lot more vile stuff that Hojo did but the games would probably have hard time showing them all.Experimenting on people against their wills or ruining their lives is just a regular week for Hojo.

 

[Unlucky]

She was offended that he implied she hadn't thought it through, right? Then the next line, "If this only concerns me, then yes, I am sure," implied to me she thought she was doing this for the good of all. Be it an Ancient to take them to the promised land or what have you.
I've seen women blow up for less

And so have I xD

Methinks it's partly because she was truly offended, but moreso because she likes him and she knows he does too. She throws a bitchfit to hide the fact that she liked him being concerned. You know, like what some women do when playing hard-to-get But I'm treading on headcanon area here.

And I didn't like Vincent cowering after that either. Like he was so sorry he offended her. If he strongly disagrees then you'd expect a bit of anger in him. Instead he goes "Oh..." *sadface*

Though in my opinion I see Hojo as a bad influence that encouraged her to cross moral and ethical lines in the name of scientific ambition.

I think otherwise. Like I said, the fact that there's nobody in the Science dept. contesting their methods means that they know it's part of their job, and that they're more or less prepared to do it. Lucrecia became conflicted because she involved herself personally. If it was another woman they were working on, I doubt she'd feel the same.

 

[jazzflower92]

And so have I xD

Methinks it's partly because she was truly offended, but moreso because she likes him and she knows he does too. She throws a bitchfit to hide the fact that she liked him being concerned. You know, like what some women do when playing hard-to-get But I'm treading on headcanon area here.

And I didn't like Vincent cowering after that either. Like he was so sorry he offended her. If he strongly disagrees then you'd expect a bit of anger in him. Instead he goes "Oh..." *sadface*

Thats the problem with Vincent he can't really get angry at Lucrecia.I still wonder if Vincent would have objected to the project if Lucrecia wasn't apart of it.It seems all the characters in the game react if it gets personal.

 

[Unlucky]

It seems all the characters in the game react if it gets personal.

Of course..

 

[jazzflower92]

Then again Hojo does have that tendency to go after the loved ones of people he is acquainted with.Though I always wondered why he shot Vincent in the first place because he didn't have any power to stop the project.Then again I think and remember this is Hojo we are talking about.I don't even think it was because of jealousy against him but because Vincent was a nosey pest that couldn't stay quiet.

 

[ForceStealer]

Guys....the fact that Vincent cowered and stood by and did nothing is exactly what he blames himself for. That's like the crux of his character.