Does Vincent's Love For Lucrecia Blind Him To Her Faults And Actions?

[jazzflower92]

Guys....the fact that Vincent cowered and stood by and did nothing is exactly what he blames himself for. That's like the crux of his character.

Then at the end of the OG he decides to stop blaming himself and rightfully blame Hojo for the mess.Unfortunately then came DOC and Vincent goes back to brooding over his so called sins.

 

[ForceStealer]

And THAT's the problem with DC's writing. Not so much the way Lucrecia and Vincent act in DC's flashbacks.

 

[jazzflower92]

I do wonder why in DOC of Cerebrus they made Lucrecia the one to put Chaos in Vincent when it would have made more sense to actually have Hojo still be the one to do it.

 

[Unlucky]

Guys....the fact that Vincent cowered and stood by and did nothing is exactly what he blames himself for. That's like the crux of his character.

I know. I was just giving my 2 cents about how I didn't like that scene. He already crossed the line with his meddling and vocal disapproval. I just thought you'd see a tiny bit of anger in there because he loves Lucrecia. Even if you just see it in his face.

 

[jazzflower92]

Probably a tiny bit of anger that he couldn't get Lucrecia to see that what she was doing was morally questionable.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I do wonder why in DOC of Cerebrus they made Lucrecia the one to put Chaos in Vincent when it would have made more sense to actually have Hojo still be the one to do it.

In the OG, the only way to get Vincint's last Limit Break (Chaos) is to go to Lucrecia's cave and talk to her, go fight a certain number of battles, and then go talk to her a gain. She gives Vincents his best weapon and her research notes on Chaos. So even with the OG, she had something to do with Chaos.

 

[jazzflower92]

In the OG, the only way to get Vincint's last Limit Break (Chaos) is to go to Lucrecia's cave and talk to her, go fight a certain number of battles, and then go talk to her a gain. She gives Vincents his best weapon and her research notes on Chaos. So even with the OG, she had something to do with Chaos.

Ok,that now makes a little bit more sense into why they associated Lucrecia with Chaos.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

She was offended that he implied she hadn't thought it through, right? Then the next line, "If this only concerns me, then yes, I am sure," implied to me she thought she was doing this for the good of all.

I took that line more as her a) trying to mask that she was partly upset because she really cared about Vincent and b) deliberately trying to be a bitch and hurt his feelings by saying that what she did was none of his concern.

I'm with Unlucky on this being the most annoying Lucrecia scene, though.

Yeah, Lucrecia, you experimenting on yourself is no concern of people who love you -- oh, wait; yes, it is, you stupid bitch.

 

[jazzflower92]

I took that line more as her a) trying to mask that she was partly upset because she really cared about Vincent and b) deliberately trying to be a bitch and hurt his feelings by saying that what she did was none of his concern.

I'm with Unlucky on this being the most annoying Lucrecia scene, though.

Yeah, Lucrecia, you experimenting on yourself is no concern of people who love you -- oh, wait; yes, it is, you stupid bitch.

It also shows how she lacks any good judgement in character about people.Which further explains why she chose to marry Hojo.I mean anyone with some common sense would be kinda of alarmed that your husband doesn't care about the risks of going through with this experiment especially if your pregnant.

You know sometimes Lucrecia really reminds me of Bella Swann from Twlight.She brushes off people when they are trying to look out for her saftey and acts offended about it.

 

[Unlucky]

I took that line more as her a) trying to mask that she was partly upset because she really cared about Vincent and b) deliberately trying to be a bitch and hurt his feelings by saying that what she did was none of his concern.

Yes. Actually no matter what the reason is she really came off as a complete bitch.

She and Vincent are a perfect recipe for a destructive, self-depreciating relationship.

Given some tweaking though, I think it's possible for them to be more likable while still preserving their 'tragedy'.

 

[jazzflower92]

Yes. Actually no matter what the reason is she really came off as a complete bitch.

She and Vincent are a perfect recipe for a destructive, self-depreciating relationship.

Given some tweaking though, I think it's possible for them to be more likable while still preserving their 'tragedy'.

Yeah,like go back to their original depiction in Final Fantasy 7 and expand from there.Also base it on the information found the Ultimanias then delete out Grimoire and have Gast play a part in it because he always seems to be ignored in the expaned universe.

 

[Unlucky]

I remember I really liked the Vincent-Lucrecia storyline with how little was presented in the OG. I found Vincent knowing Sephiroth's birth mother really intriguing.

Then came DoC and now Lucrecia's probably my most hated Compilation character only next to you know who.

I still think Vinnie is cool in some ways though. Still like him.

 

[jazzflower92]

I remember I really liked the Vincent-Lucrecia storyline with what little was presented in the OG. I found Vincent knowing Sephiroth's birth mother really intriguing.

Then came DoC and now Lucrecia's probably my most hated Compilation character only next to you know who.

I still think Vinnie is cool in some ways though. Still like him.

I still kinda of think that Gast should of been in DOC instead of Grimoire for the reason because Gast was the one who started the Jenova Project and it would be good if they expanded more on him as well.It would have been better writing if they remembered Lucrecia's role as Gast assistant or Gast at all.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

The Vincent and Lucretia storyline has a lot of unexplored potential. He was a nobody, really - just a bodyguard, a hired gun, the not-very-bright son of a brilliant father. He was in no way Lucretia's intellectual equal. He was always tongue-tied around her, too, probably intimidated as much by her intelligence as her beauty. I imagine she was somewhat older than he was.

I don't really know how to put this into words, but - even though they're closely associated in the game, and even though he was obsessively in love with her, I don't feel as if their tragedies have much to do with each other. Lucretia would have committed her terrible crime (the illusionary crime against Sephiroth) with or without Vincent on the scene. He's kind of irrelevant to her - or at best an added, secondary complication. And without Lucretia, Vincent would have found some other unattainable woman to mope after and destroy himself for, because that was his nature. I feel as if each is trapped in his/her respective tragedies, which are only coincidentally related: he happened to be there when she was committing her crime, and she happened to be there when he was ripe for a disastrous unrequited romance. Both of them are now condemned to live an eternal existence somewhat less than fully human, and still neither of them can actually touch the other, in either a literal or a metaphorical sense.

I can't remember if Lucretia ever said, in DoC, that she loved Vincent and meant it. Did she?

 

[jazzflower92]

The Vincent and Lucretia storyline has a lot of unexplored potential. He was a nobody, really - just a bodyguard, a hired gun, the not-very-bright son of a brilliant father. He was in no way Lucretia's intellectual equal. He was always tongue-tied around her, too, probably intimidated as much by her intelligence as her beauty. I imagine she was somewhat older than he was.

I don't really know how to put this into words, but - even though they're closely associated in the game, and even though he was obsessively in love with her, I don't feel as if their tragedies have much to do with each other. Lucretia would have committed her terrible crime (the illusionary crime against Sephiroth) with or without Vincent on the scene. He's kind of irrelevant to her - or at best an added, secondary complication. I feel as if each is trapped in his/her respective tragedies, which are only tangentially related. Both of them are now condemned to live forever an eternal existence somewhat less than fully human, and still neither of them can actually touch the other, in either a literal or a metaphorical sense.

I can't remember if Lucretia ever said, in DoC, that she loved Vincent and meant it. Did she?

I would best describe this situation as They Wasted A Perfectly Good Plot.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot

 

[Unlucky]

The Vincent and Lucretia storyline has a lot of unexplored potential. He was a nobody, really - just a bodyguard, a hired gun, the not-very-bright son of a brilliant father. He was in no way Lucretia's intellectual equal. He was always tongue-tied around her, too, probably intimidated as much by her intelligence as her beauty. I imagine she was somewhat older than he was.

There was so much potential in there. It could've been intriguing and kinky from the way they're different from each other. But it wasn't because Lucrecia sucks.

And I agree. The tragedy they share is just one sappy love story, if you think of it. And from the start was destructive. I always thought Lucrecia's excuse for not being able to love (if she's even capable of that) Vincent was flat-out stupid, not so much because she blames herself for Grimoire's death (another stupid plot device), but because she let their "relationship" develop and afterwards had to turn to Hojo to get away from it all. So what if she was guilty or whatever, that was a total bitch move.

I can't remember if Lucretia ever said, in DoC, that she loved Vincent and meant it. Did she?

This is from ffwiki:

In a major event in Dirge of Cerberus, the unification of Lucrecia's data, it is speculated she had feelings for Vincent. This is made abundantly clear throughout the game, but even more so during the seemingly random words flashing across the screen, during which she says "Vincent" and "I loved..."

I watched the cutscenes but I don't remember if she hints at it when they were actually talking. She was excruciating to listen to.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

And I agree. The tragedy they share is just one sappy love story, if you think of it. And from the start was destructive. I always thought Lucrecia's excuse for not being able to love (if she's even capable of that) Vincent was flat-out stupid, not so much because she blames herself for Grimoire's death (another stupid plot device), but because she let their "relationship" develop and afterwards had to turn to Hojo to get away from it all. So what if she was guilty or whatever, that was a total bitch move.

I'd have preferred to see her dallying with Vincent because he's hot and she's horny and there's nothing else to do way out there in the sticks (she's a city girl), and then getting bored with him because he's incapable of sustaining a conversation on the topics that interest her, and also he's drippy and moons all over her, so she moves on to Hojo, who at least stimulates her mind, which, as we all know, is the single most important erogenous zone. Plus, Hojo doesn't let her push him around.

Hey, my version of Lucretia sounds like she belongs on Big Bang Theory!

 

[jazzflower92]

Lucrecia like many things runs away from her problems instead of tackling them head on rather than trying to sort them out.She took the cowardly way out of confronting her issues by breaking off with Vincent then starting a relationship with Hojo.However,her bad decisions just don't stop there she has to cross the moral line by willingly experiment on her unborn child in the name of the science and has the nerve to get offended when her ex is showing more concern for her saftey than her so called husband.

She has all this messy issues in the first place because she puts herself before anyone else in a lot of situations.When it comes down to it she really makes everything all about herself.I think what needed to be done is make Lucrecia realize her own selfishness and show how it has caused problems for the world plus those who had to suffer for it.

 

[Unlucky]

I'd have preferred to see her dallying with Vincent because he's hot and she's horny and there's nothing else to do way out there in the sticks (she's a city girl), and then getting bored with him because he's incapable of sustaining a conversation on the topics that interest her, and also he's drippy and moons all over her, so she moves on to Hojo, who at least stimulates her mind, which, as we all know, is the single most important erogenous zone. Plus, Hojo doesn't let her push him around.

Hey, my version of Lucretia sounds like she belongs on Big Bang Theory!

And I very much like it

Or she could've been attracted to Vinnie, but marries the man who would advance her career and belongs to her 'level'. She thought it was shameful and thrilling at the same time to keep her affair with him, but Hojo finds out because Vinnie is a moron and gave it away with his 'concern' and meddling. So he shoots him.

Then Vincent could say he had a really 'dark' past

Plus it would remain a mystery who the baby daddy is

Lucrecia like many things runs away from her problems instead of tackling them head on rather than trying to sort them out.She took the cowardly way out of confronting her issues by breaking off with Vincent then starting a relationship with Hojo.

I always thought she acts so childish and unprofessional. If it weren't for that lab coat she's wearing she doesn't act like a highly-educated individual at all.

I think what needed to be done is make Lucrecia realize her own selfishness and show how it has caused problems for the world plus those who had to suffer for it.

Yeah by making her immortal AND hideous.

 

[jazzflower92]

And I very much like it

Or she could've been attracted to Vinnie, but marries the man who would advance her career and belongs to her 'level'. She thought it was shameful and thrilling at the same time to keep her affair with him, but Hojo finds out because Vinnie is a moron and gave it away with his 'concern' and meddling. So he shoots him.

Then Vincent could say he had a really 'dark' past

Plus it would remain a mystery who the baby daddy is

I kinda of like that idea of Lucrecia marrying Hojo to advance her carrer and to get ahead in the science community while having Vinnie as her boy toy on the side.I also like the idea that maybe Hojo becomes paranoid that the child might not be his.

 

[Unlucky]

I was actually just being facetious and exploring the inherent kinkiness of Vin/Lu

But yeah twas moar entertaining than the crap storyline they have if anything

 

[jazzflower92]

I was actually just being facetious and exploring the inherent kinkiness of Vin/Lu

But yeah twas moar entertaining than the crap storyline they have if anything

I think someone should write a fanfiction out of your idea because there is potential for some good kinkiness for the Vin/Lu ship.I mean Vincent is just too fine for his own good.Besides anyone can soon realize fast that marrying Hojo was the biggiest mistake in their entire lives.

 

[Unlucky]

If Lic is interested then I promise you it will be a masterpiece

 

[ForceStealer]

The problems I have with Dirge's writing are almost entirely in premise (Vincent's character arc, the size of Deepground, so on and so forth). The fact that Lucrecia is annoying isn't really a problem for me. A character doesn't have to be likable for it be 'good' writing. Voice acting is another beast I suppose but I'm not really talking about that.

I don't really like Vincent getting any with Lucrecia, I didn't even back when the 'Is Vincent Sephiroth's Father' theories abounded. Not EVERYONE a main character likes has to fall for him or her. Lucrecia was pleasant to Vincent, but she was interested in Hojo. If not for looks than for his power, standing, and...need of nurturing, apparently. You do hear about women going for a "project," a person they can change or fix.

Vincent was likely stuck in the "friend zone," if you will.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The first thing we know about Vincent is that he's a Turk. Good people skills aren't exactly a requirement for that job.

What gets to me about the Vincent/Lucrecia situation is that I identify a lot with both of them. I don't like conflict, I ignore it and in general do a lot to get away from it. I tend not to stick my neck out unless something really goes against my morals and when I do I get burned for it. And then I go into a proverbial shell and don't want to talk with anyone for a while. And I'm really bad with dealing with people who are interested in me.

The only other person I identify more with is Hojo, he's probably a lot what I'd turn out like if I didn't have any morals.

I think what needed to be done is make Lucrecia realize her own selfishness and show how it has caused problems for the world plus those who had to suffer for it.

Didn't she figure this out in TOG though... and in DoC this is why she keeps apologizing to Vincent...