Shademp
420
Be prepared for walls of text.
Few quotes by the minds behind FFVII have caused me so much uneasiness as that from page 86 of the Reunion Files, where Nomura seems to say that the use of Materia drains the Planet's life force, just as the extraction and use of mako energy does. <--read complete post for additional relevant quotes about this issue
It was used as an explanation as to why Cloud and company are not using Materia in Advent Children. The trouble arises in that seemingly no other official media of the FFVII mythos refers to Materia as a spirit-energy-depleter in the same fashion as Mako Reactors are. Then again I still need to replay Crisis Core and there are many guide book sections which are yet to be translated, so the answer could lie within any of these sources.
Did Nomura invent the notion that Materia drains the Planet's life force? Or is the quote being misread somehow? Many have gone with the seemingly natural interpretation of the quote. Ye olde Ultimania Omega translations document on GameFAQs comments Nomura's quote as follows:
In response to the TLS post linked earlier, Obsidian Fire posited that Nomura's claim was merely an "excuse" and that the notion of Materia as consumers of spirit energy does not hold water in the original game's mechanics.
Further researching the matter, both in general and as a response to Obsidian Fire's post, I refer to how the Black Materia functions.
So we have confirmation that at least the most powerful Materia on the Planet requires spiritual energy, outside that of the main user, in order for its spell to be used. We find no 100% clear commentary on how "normal" Materia works though.
The meaning of "one person's power alone won't do it" can be interpreted in numerous ways. It still does not tell us whether this "power alone" is the use of the Planet's spirit energy, the wielder's spirit energy, both or neither.
We might also examine a quote from Bugenhagen. Many will have played through the game multiple times without ever seeing it. Talk to him at any point when Cid is the leader or when Cloud has returned but before completing the Underwater Reactor mission.
I see three possible interpretations as to the cause of why the Planet would be weakened.
1) The use of Materia depletes spirit energy and thusly harms the Planet.
2) It is wrong to use Materia that was manufactured in Shinra's mako reactors because a dependancy on these weapons makes people rely on mako technology.
3) The use of powerful magical spells hurt the Planet itself, just like Meteor would have created a giant wound, and so purely by being destructive will Materia be an ill.
All these three could be simultaneously true.
If anybody could take a look at the Japanese line and see if the intended meaning is more obvious, here it is.
If we are to accept the default interpretation of Nomura's claim in the Reunion Files, then that means Cosmo Canyon, the human settlement which prides itself on being at most peace with the Planet, is guilty of hurting the Planet by selling Materia. Because, like I mentioned in the linked-to post, Cosmo Canyon has its own Materia shop.
Script rips from the shop area:
There are ways that Cosmo Canyon's ways of handling Materia could be justified even in the paradigm where Materia is "bad". Their Materia would focus on "life giving" properties, rather than anything destructive like a Fire or Destruct Materia.
The shop's Materia lineup is this: MP Plus, HP Plus, Mystify and Transform. Notice that no Materia is a direct "attack" Materia, but rather the indirect kind that either boost stats or cause a status effect. Fittingly, one shop also stashes a Full Cure that can be acquired later on in the game.
Yet I can't help but feel that this require needlessly many assumptions on our part in order to make sense of Cosmo Canyon's stance on Materia. There is too much that is left unsaid in the official material. What are the taboos, do's and don'ts when it comes to Materia, especially in a place like Cosmo Canyon? I honestly can't make heads or tails of this. We can at least in the "On the Way to a Smile" series see that when Yuffie uses restorative Materia in Wutai, Nanaki has no qualms about it. He also does not mind going on a Materia hunt (for a Materia that might cure Geostigma) with her. But because this is a hunt for restorative Materia, it is left unsaid if Nanaki is against the hunt and use of destructive Materia.
All in all, I am utterly confused. "Page 86 of the Reunion Files" has become like an evil chant to me, because the idea that Materia is bad for the Planet posits so many problems for (and questions about) the stories of FFVII. Should Nomura's quote be taken at face value? Should it be reinterpreted or should we consider it simply a mistaken claim? How can we argue canonicity at all if we are to pick and choose which developer statements to believe?
If you've read up to this point, I thank you. I appreciate any help on ridding my confusion and settling once and for all whether Materia drains the Planet's spirit energy or not.
Few quotes by the minds behind FFVII have caused me so much uneasiness as that from page 86 of the Reunion Files, where Nomura seems to say that the use of Materia drains the Planet's life force, just as the extraction and use of mako energy does. <--read complete post for additional relevant quotes about this issue
It was used as an explanation as to why Cloud and company are not using Materia in Advent Children. The trouble arises in that seemingly no other official media of the FFVII mythos refers to Materia as a spirit-energy-depleter in the same fashion as Mako Reactors are. Then again I still need to replay Crisis Core and there are many guide book sections which are yet to be translated, so the answer could lie within any of these sources.
Did Nomura invent the notion that Materia drains the Planet's life force? Or is the quote being misread somehow? Many have gone with the seemingly natural interpretation of the quote. Ye olde Ultimania Omega translations document on GameFAQs comments Nomura's quote as follows:
(The GameFAQs document claims the quote to be on page 87, but I maintain that it is on page 86)
In response to the TLS post linked earlier, Obsidian Fire posited that Nomura's claim was merely an "excuse" and that the notion of Materia as consumers of spirit energy does not hold water in the original game's mechanics.
Further researching the matter, both in general and as a response to Obsidian Fire's post, I refer to how the Black Materia functions.
Temple of Ancients said:
So we have confirmation that at least the most powerful Materia on the Planet requires spiritual energy, outside that of the main user, in order for its spell to be used. We find no 100% clear commentary on how "normal" Materia works though.
The meaning of "one person's power alone won't do it" can be interpreted in numerous ways. It still does not tell us whether this "power alone" is the use of the Planet's spirit energy, the wielder's spirit energy, both or neither.
We might also examine a quote from Bugenhagen. Many will have played through the game multiple times without ever seeing it. Talk to him at any point when Cid is the leader or when Cloud has returned but before completing the Underwater Reactor mission.
Bugenhagen
“You are using Shinra Materia,
as a weapon?”
“Materia is highly dense spiritual energy.
A shred of the Planet's life.
It should not be used as a weapon.”
“We must stop using it…
or the Planet will be weakened.”
Script rip is from PC version, snapshots are from PSX, hence the differences in capitalization.
I see three possible interpretations as to the cause of why the Planet would be weakened.
1) The use of Materia depletes spirit energy and thusly harms the Planet.
2) It is wrong to use Materia that was manufactured in Shinra's mako reactors because a dependancy on these weapons makes people rely on mako technology.
3) The use of powerful magical spells hurt the Planet itself, just like Meteor would have created a giant wound, and so purely by being destructive will Materia be an ill.
All these three could be simultaneously true.
If anybody could take a look at the Japanese line and see if the intended meaning is more obvious, here it is.
If we are to accept the default interpretation of Nomura's claim in the Reunion Files, then that means Cosmo Canyon, the human settlement which prides itself on being at most peace with the Planet, is guilty of hurting the Planet by selling Materia. Because, like I mentioned in the linked-to post, Cosmo Canyon has its own Materia shop.
Script rips from the shop area:
There are ways that Cosmo Canyon's ways of handling Materia could be justified even in the paradigm where Materia is "bad". Their Materia would focus on "life giving" properties, rather than anything destructive like a Fire or Destruct Materia.
The shop's Materia lineup is this: MP Plus, HP Plus, Mystify and Transform. Notice that no Materia is a direct "attack" Materia, but rather the indirect kind that either boost stats or cause a status effect. Fittingly, one shop also stashes a Full Cure that can be acquired later on in the game.
Yet I can't help but feel that this require needlessly many assumptions on our part in order to make sense of Cosmo Canyon's stance on Materia. There is too much that is left unsaid in the official material. What are the taboos, do's and don'ts when it comes to Materia, especially in a place like Cosmo Canyon? I honestly can't make heads or tails of this. We can at least in the "On the Way to a Smile" series see that when Yuffie uses restorative Materia in Wutai, Nanaki has no qualms about it. He also does not mind going on a Materia hunt (for a Materia that might cure Geostigma) with her. But because this is a hunt for restorative Materia, it is left unsaid if Nanaki is against the hunt and use of destructive Materia.
All in all, I am utterly confused. "Page 86 of the Reunion Files" has become like an evil chant to me, because the idea that Materia is bad for the Planet posits so many problems for (and questions about) the stories of FFVII. Should Nomura's quote be taken at face value? Should it be reinterpreted or should we consider it simply a mistaken claim? How can we argue canonicity at all if we are to pick and choose which developer statements to believe?
If you've read up to this point, I thank you. I appreciate any help on ridding my confusion and settling once and for all whether Materia drains the Planet's spirit energy or not.
