Canon or Not Canon?

Is Dissidia Canon?

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 69.0%
  • No

    Votes: 9 31.0%

  • Total voters
    29

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
Is Dissidia canon, or not? Considering the following:

Evidence in favor
-Most of the heroes are already acquainted with their respective villain and have histories with them.
-There are several allusions to the original games - Cloud says the Buster Sword is a memento, Sephiroth says he killed himself to ascertain the true nature of existence, the Emperor allows himself to die to further his own plans for dominance, etc.
-It is mentioned that Dissidia's world is comprised of fragments of other worlds that have been destroyed.
-
As revealed in Shade Impulse, Dissidia's Garland is the same Garland from FF, ie, trapped in a cycle of rebirth, etc. This is the only instance in the game where it is directly stated a character is the same as their original counterpart and not an AU version of them.

Evidence against
-Several characters have powers they don't originally have. Cecil can shift between dark and light powers, the heroes can transform their weapons, characters can class-change, etc.
-While Dissidia's cast make allusions to the original games, you'll notice there are no direct referrals to the events of the original games. Terra makes no mention of Kefka's godhood, Tidus doesn't mention Sin, no one mentions any side characters or allies. There's no mention of anyone in Dissidia's storyline beyond the present cast members.
-A lot of the "Crystals" that appear in the game, aside from speculation like the White Materia debate, don't appear in the original titles.

Other points
-Yes, most of the villains in Dissidia are dead in their respective games. But Chaos is a god, you could easily argue he revived them. But the "Chaos did it" cop-out can't be used as a universal excuse to explain everything.
-If Dissidia *is* canon, this logically means that at some point in the respective timelines of each game world, the heroes and villains were pulled into this war, and when the war ends the worlds go back to normal and the characters return to them. Like Back the Future, they depart from a point in time, go on an adventure and return to their home at the same point in time they left, as if they never left at all. But, when was this point in time for each world? This could explain some crucial plot holes depending on timing.
-Terra loses her magic at the end of FF6, so how does she get it back in Dissidia? No "Cosmos did it" cop-out. The only explanation is that for Terra, the Dissidia events take place before Kefka's defeat, which could explain his transformation as well, maybe.
-While there are no direct references to the original titles, it's mentioned that the Dissidia cast have lost their memories, so the problem of no references explains itself.

Creator Statements
lfantasyforums.net/dissidia-final-fantasy/dissidia-interview-23857.html]Director Takeshi Arakawa - [/COLOR]"Dissidia: Final Fantasy"'s story is not directly linked to the "FF" stories these characters come from. However, we have designed it so that, as you get closer to the game's ending, there will be some kind of link you can see relating to each one of them. Also, although this is a different world and story, the characters will keep their recognisable personalities so fans can rest assured.
 
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Ⓐaron

Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
AKA
The Man, V
If memory serves correctly, the creators have officially stated that it is canon. So, yes.
 

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
Ⓐaron;164042 said:
If memory serves correctly, the creators have officially stated that it is canon. So, yes.

Aye, I'm on a hunt for interviews now and plan to add creator statements.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Evidence against
-Several characters have powers they don't originally have. Cecil can shift between dark and light powers, the heroes can transform their weapons, characters can class-change, etc.

Aside from Cecil- whose ability to do this may be resultant of the strange world they are in, the class changers do change class. Not MID BATTLE, no, but hey, fighting game.

-While Dissidia's cast make allusions to the original games, you'll notice there are no direct referrals to the events of the original games. Terra makes no mention of Kefka's godhood, Tidus doesn't mention Sin, no one mentions any side characters or allies. There's no mention of anyone in Dissidia's storyline beyond the present cast members.

Uh, Cloud mentions Zack, Zidane alludes to Garnet and Squall directly mentions his promise to return.

-A lot of the "Crystals" that appear in the game, aside from speculation like the White Materia debate, don't appear in the original titles.

Actually, only Squall's is the case. All the others are generic analogues of their crystals or other sundry sources of magic and power.

Other points
-Yes, most of the villains in Dissidia are dead in their respective games. But Chaos is a god, you could easily argue he revived them. But the "Chaos did it" cop-out can't be used as a universal excuse to explain everything.

Sarda did it.
Or the great will.
Or Red Mage.
Definitely RM.

-If Dissidia *is* canon, this logically means that at some point in the respective timelines of each game world, the heroes and villains were pulled into this war, and when the war ends the worlds go back to normal and the characters return to them. Like Back the Future, they depart from a point in time, go on an adventure and return to their home at the same point in time they left, as if they never left at all. But, when was this point in time for each world? This could explain some crucial plot holes depending on timing.
-Terra loses her magic at the end of FF6, so how does she get it back in Dissidia? No "Cosmos did it" cop-out. The only explanation is that for Terra, the Dissidia events take place before Kefka's defeat, which could explain his transformation as well, maybe.
-While there are no direct references to the original titles, it's mentioned that the Dissidia cast have lost their memories, so the problem of no references explains itself.

I think, for most, it's post or near to end of their original adventures.
Cecil has accepted Golbez and wishes him to come and join the light, which he started at the end of FFIV.
Cloud could be post game, or more hilariously, mid lifestream. Just after he gets his mind back, on the way to floating back up.
But than again, I am amused by the idea that Cloud accidentally traverses a million worlds during that time.
Squall... during time compression? He's a lot less taciturn and asocial than he was through most of 8, like he is at the end, and there's the promise to return.
 

DrakeClawfang

The Wanderer of Time
Aside from Cecil- whose ability to do this may be resultant of the strange world they are in, the class changers do change class. Not MID BATTLE, no, but hey, fighting game.

True, but when Bartz and WoL master their jobs, it's a temporary boost, you can't un-class change from Knight and un-master a Job in FFI/V.

Uh, Cloud mentions Zack, Zidane alludes to Garnet and Squall directly mentions his promise to return.
Are names directly mentioned?

Actually, only Squall's is the case. All the others are generic analogues of their crystals or other sundry sources of magic and power.
Firion's as well.

mako is gonna chew your ass out son
I didn't think Mako swung that way.
 

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
I don't think it really matters given that the events of Dissidia are completely irrelevant to the plots of each respective property involved, so it's best to just enjoy the game for what it is and not worry about it.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
True, but when Bartz and WoL master their jobs, it's a temporary boost, you can't un-class change from Knight and un-master a Job in FFI/V.

Like I said, the crazy sort of non euclidian world Dissidia is, plus, FIGHTING GAME, doesn't surprise me.

Are names directly mentioned?

No, but 'It's a memento' and 'There's someone waiting for me, someone I made a promise to' are fairly specific reminders.

Firion's as well.

No, there are crystals in FF2. They're Jagoff to the plot, but they are there.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Notorious M.O.G. said:
mako is gonna chew your ass out son

Someone knows me well. :awesome:

DrakeClawfang said:
-Several characters have powers they don't originally have. Cecil can shift between dark and light powers, the heroes can transform their weapons, characters can class-change, etc.

That can easily be chalked up to the new and otherworldly scenario they're in, thanks to the power of Cosmos granting them even newer powers that they never could utilize in their world. And transforming their weapons and class-changing in battle is hardly anything new or inconsistent in Final Fantasy at all. Look at Yuna, Rikku, and Paine in FFX-2. It's the same thing.

While Dissidia's cast make allusions to the original games, you'll notice there are no direct referrals to the events of the original games. Terra makes no mention of Kefka's godhood, Tidus doesn't mention Sin, no one mentions any side characters or allies. There's no mention of anyone in Dissidia's storyline beyond the present cast members.

They do make direct referrals to the events of the original games. The Dissidia Ultimania calls them out. You can read about them here. For example, Cloud references the final battle with Sephiroth in Shade Impulse, Cloud references Zack directly regarding his sword, and even tells Sephiroth the same thing he told his friends in FFVII when he regained his identity.

Squall mentions his promise to meet Rinoa again to Onion Knight and tells him to keep it secret, and probably the most direct and important reference mentioned specifically in Dissidia is Garland telling Chaos that they are one in the same, and how the cycle was all started when he was sent 2000 years into the past. Huge reference to the plot of FF1.

A lot of the "Crystals" that appear in the game, aside from speculation like the White Materia debate, don't appear in the original titles.

Because the Crystals are original items that are used in Dissidia. They are embodiments of Cosmos and her power over Harmony.

Yes, most of the villains in Dissidia are dead in their respective games. But Chaos is a god, you could easily argue he revived them. But the "Chaos did it" cop-out can't be used as a universal excuse to explain everything.

If you don't accept this initial premise, then you can't accept the entire story of Dissidia since it is a war between gods. Chaos not only brought the villains all back to life, he's done it repeatedly before. It's a main plot point of the game.

If Dissidia *is* canon, this logically means that at some point in the respective timelines of each game world, the heroes and villains were pulled into this war, and when the war ends the worlds go back to normal and the characters return to them. Like Back the Future, they depart from a point in time, go on an adventure and return to their home at the same point in time they left, as if they never left at all. But, when was this point in time for each world? This could explain some crucial plot holes depending on timing.

It all happens at some point near the end of their respective games, but it really doesn't matter because as Dacon said, Dissidia doesn't do anything to change the respective past stories of each Final Fantasy at all. It's its own unique adventure taking place in Dissidia's world. Or rather...Final Fantasy 1's world.

Terra loses her magic at the end of FF6, so how does she get it back in Dissidia? No "Cosmos did it" cop-out. The only explanation is that for Terra, the Dissidia events take place before Kefka's defeat, which could explain his transformation as well, maybe.

It's not a cop out. Cosmos was capable of bringing Tidus to the world of Dissidia and he's nothing more than a dream of the Fayth. He doesn't even technically exist. Without the fayth he shouldn't even be alive, but Cosmos again keeps him alive. If you're not gonna accept the gods have cosmic powers, then you're refusing to accept the story. Chaos has shattered each Final Fantasy world and created the world of Dissidia from shards of each FF world, melded into one. So that's a testament to his godly powers right there.

While there are no direct references to the original titles, it's mentioned that the Dissidia cast have lost their memories, so the problem of no references explains itself.

No, only certain characters have lost their memories. Like Terra, and Sephiroth, albeit momentarily. And gradually they get them back. Characters that died in the previous conflict end up losing their memories thanks to the Shinryu reset.

"Dissidia: Final Fantasy"'s story is not directly linked to the "FF" stories these characters come from. However, we have designed it so that, as you get closer to the game's ending, there will be some kind of link you can see relating to each one of them. Also, although this is a different world and story, the characters will keep their recognisable personalities so fans can rest assured.

That means that Dissidia's story is unique to itself and isn't going to directly impact the past games of each FF. That's true. Doesn't mean it's not canon.

However, Nomura did have this to say here...

Nomura said:
Although this game is a Final Fantasy installment it’s not an RPG, so I was expecting a more somber response, but the responses from the fans was a lot more enthusiastic than I expected.

:monster:
 
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Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
The whole thing is easier to accept if you just think of it as something like an transuniversal arm wrestling contest between God and Satan.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
The whole thing is easier to accept if you just think of it as something like an transuniversal arm wrestling contest between God and Satan.

That, or maybe something along the lines of a lover's quarrel. :awesome:

Considering Chaos and Cosmos used to rule together happily until well...the shit went bad.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
dun dun dun

I mean, look at it this way, guys. Let's say I go to sleep in a few minutes. Sometime during the night, God teleports me away from my bed, and I get tossed in an alternate universe along with some other people from other universes, a dude with a banana for a hat, a very tall woman, a vengeful bacon salesman, and a pig. It is explained to me that God and Satan have been duking it out since forever and that it's our turn to kick some ass.

So we fight against our counterpart rivals on Satans side. The dude with the banana hat fights his nemesis (a monkey), the very tall woman dukes it out with Gary Coleman, the vengeful bacon salesman fights a very fat man, the pig fights, strangely enough, a vengeful bacon salesman, and I go up against my ex girlfriend (that bitch).

So some shit goes down, and we're all victorious, YAY. So, we all leave for our respective universes, but whoops, to keep things from goofing up our own worlds, God takes away all of our memories and skills we developed during the showdown, and we're transported wherever we were beforehand, in my case, my bed, not even a second before I was originally whisked away.

I wake up the next morning with no memory of what transpired and morning breath.
 

Lord Noctis

Harbinger of Darkness
AKA
Caius Ballad
dun dun dun

I mean, look at it this way, guys. Let's say I go to sleep in a few minutes. Sometime during the night, God teleports me away from my bed, and I get tossed in an alternate universe along with some other people from other universes, a dude with a banana for a hat, a very tall woman, a vengeful bacon salesman, and a pig. It is explained to me that God and Satan have been duking it out since forever and that it's our turn to kick some ass.

So we fight against our counterpart rivals on Satans side. The dude with the banana hat fights his nemesis (a monkey), the very tall woman dukes it out with Gary Coleman, the vengeful bacon salesman fights a very fat man, the pig fights, strangely enough, a vengeful bacon salesman, and I go up against my ex girlfriend (that bitch).

So some shit goes down, and we're all victorious, YAY. So, we all leave for our respective universes, but whoops, to keep things from goofing up our own worlds, God takes away all of our memories and skills we developed during the showdown, and we're transported wherever we were beforehand, in my case, my bed, not even a second before I was originally whisked away.

I wake up the next morning with no memory of what transpired and morning breath.

Which raises an interesting question. If nobody remembers it, did it really happen?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHIFMkmhDY0
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
dun dun dun

I mean, look at it this way, guys. Let's say I go to sleep in a few minutes. Sometime during the night, God teleports me away from my bed, and I get tossed in an alternate universe along with some other people from other universes, a dude with a banana for a hat, a very tall woman, a vengeful bacon salesman, and a pig. It is explained to me that God and Satan have been duking it out since forever and that it's our turn to kick some ass.

So we fight against our counterpart rivals on Satans side. The dude with the banana hat fights his nemesis (a monkey), the very tall woman dukes it out with Gary Coleman, the vengeful bacon salesman fights a very fat man, the pig fights, strangely enough, a vengeful bacon salesman, and I go up against my ex girlfriend (that bitch).

So some shit goes down, and we're all victorious, YAY. So, we all leave for our respective universes, but whoops, to keep things from goofing up our own worlds, God takes away all of our memories and skills we developed during the showdown, and we're transported wherever we were beforehand, in my case, my bed, not even a second before I was originally whisked away.

I wake up the next morning with no memory of what transpired and morning breath.

That needs to be made into a game. RIGHT FUCKING NOW.

And yeah, that about sums it up. In fact, during Shade Impulse, Cloud says that's what could happen if they defeat Chaos.

Cloud: If we defeat Chaos, maybe the worlds will go back to normal, things will return to how they were, and we can go home as if this all never happened...

Tidus: Really? You think that'll happen?!

Cloud: ...I lied. I don't know.

Tidus: WHAT?!

Squall: But he has a point. Maybe that could happen. I want to believe that.
 

Ravynne Nevyrmore

that one Lucrecia fangirl
AKA
Ravynne
Canon in the sense of we can make conclusions about the characters' personalities and whatnot based on Dissidia? Probably.

Canon as in we have to accept that whatever happened to the characters in Dissidia has now happened to them in their respective continuities? No, I'm not buying that.

Canon, maybe, but definitely AU. Also, all your evidence "in favor" could be applied to fanfiction.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Canon in the sense of we can make conclusions about the characters' personalities and whatnot based on Dissidia? Probably.

Canon as in we have to accept that whatever happened to the characters in Dissidia has now happened to them in their respective continuities? No, I'm not buying that.

Canon, maybe, but definitely AU. Also, all your evidence "in favor" could be applied to fanfiction.

refer to my previous analogy
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Canon in the sense of we can make conclusions about the characters' personalities and whatnot based on Dissidia? Probably.

Canon as in we have to accept that whatever happened to the characters in Dissidia has now happened to them in their respective continuities? No, I'm not buying that.

Canon, maybe, but definitely AU. Also, all your evidence "in favor" could be applied to fanfiction.

I dont' know how it could apply to fanfiction since fans didn't write Dissidia :monster:

The game takes place in another universe yes. The Final Fantasy 1 one. But it happened. I don't know why you'd doubt it.
 

Ravynne Nevyrmore

that one Lucrecia fangirl
AKA
Ravynne
I haven't played the game yet so I have no specific reasons to doubt it. But KH is written or at least sanctioned by SE and it's not considered canon, either. At least, it IS considered AU.

They can do whatever other stories they want with their own characters, but there is no way I am acknowledging it as part of the continuity of FF7 that Cloud has gone on a rescue mission for Mickey Mouse or that he's stood alongside Zidane and battled Kefka. Or whatever the hell happens in those games. It's not the same story. It's AU.


mako said:
I dont' know how it could apply to fanfiction since fans didn't write Dissidia :monster:
The particular points that he made could just as easily apply if it had been.

Case in point:

drake said:
Evidence in favor
-Most of the heroes are already acquainted with their respective villain and have histories with them.
True of most fanfiction, but does not prove any fanfiction canon.
 

Ravynne Nevyrmore

that one Lucrecia fangirl
AKA
Ravynne
And "canon" just means that the material was written by the creator(s) of the original. It says nothing of whether or not it is AU.
 
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