How do you view Cloud's Character?

Raquelborn

Raquelborn

"I slice your ass in 4."
AKA
Raq, Raquel.
How do you personally see Cloud's character?

I ask as I've been reading fan fictions lately which I feel have got Cloud's character slightly off or people have said ways they think my characterisation of Cloud doesn't quite fit with theirs.

I think a lot of people see Cloud as he is in AC/C: depressed, angsty and mopy. But, when you look at how he behaves in Reminiscence of FFVII and in Dirge of Cerberus (the little we see of him), he has an almost cocky air at times. He doesn't say more than he needs to but he's not necessarily shy etc.

That's how I see him anyway...

So how do you see him?
 
Max Payne

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
I see Cloud as the loser who fucked up and failed repeatedly before finally embracing himself and becoming someone who is worth a fuck. Unlike a lot of other FF characters who just seem to have an innate badassery. Cloud literally fought tooth and nail to get where he is. If anyone has earned bragging rights, it's him.

It's why he's relatable, and his struggle to live up to his dreams was so endearing.
 
Roger

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Usually he's confident about his fighting abilities, whilest softspoken about everything else. Between DoC and OTWTAS that's the impression I get.
 
Celes Chere

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
I love him in Crisis Core, like him in VII, and just MEH at anything after that.
He's not my favorite character, and I don't hate his character either...
just...

MEH.
 
X-SOLDIER

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
He's always inspiring himself to be like Zack, early on, until he realizes that he IS the person he'd always strived after and idolized others to become. While at times he feels like he's not good enough, or that he can't help, (thus the zomz depressionz), people often tend to overshadow that aspect onto his character, which isn't fair, because Cloud is ALL about overcoming that (which is why he might seem mopey). Cloud has an unbreakable resolve. It's awkward, and very different, but it's unbreakable, and THAT's why he's so great. He's got a very quirky, awkward way of going about everything. He gets broken over and over, but he forces himself to get back up, even if he's super unorthodox about it.

Seriously, his rallying cry to go take down Sephiroth and save the world is initially: "Let's mosey."


X :neo:
 
Masamune

Masamune

Fiat Lux
AKA
Masa
300px-FFVII-CloudChocobo.jpg


and NOT...

2z5llxh.jpg
 
looneymoon

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
He's a character that's always felt alienated by others, yet at the same time extremely drawn to them. As such, he does not really know how to act around others. He's socially awkward but tries to overcome it, rather than isolate himself.

He doesn't think much of himself. Because of that, he desperately wants to prove to others how worthy he is, but always fails to convince himself. The irony is that by trying to set himself apart from everyone else, he is in fact trying to be included.

He's actually a pretty dorky guy but tries to mask who he is because he is so insecure. His attempts at making himself appear cooler than he is comes of as insanely try-hard and actually makes him look even dorkier.
 
Splintered

Splintered

unsavory tart
The problem with Cloud is that his personality is all over the place, because we see him throughout his youth and the fact that he had a fractured mind. Although he is still Cloud, he behaves different in each point we meet him.

At his core, he's always uncertain about himself. He's a bit of a loser, not because he really is one, more that he can't bring himself out of that mindset. He easily overthinks his own weakness and that leads him to bring walls around himself- but paradoxically he's kind of emotionally dependent on people. He's awkward, makes mistakes easily, and sometimes doesn't know when to start fighting. Honestly, I think the only real difference between him in CC and him in AC, is that by the time AC rolled around, he knows how to mask his insecurity and shyness with an air of cold indifference and he had a lot more to feel sad about.

There is a point, though, where Cloud can be pushed to the point of excellence. This is where AC/C and KH sort of dissapoint because they only show him at his low points. Cloud at his best was in the latter parts of FFVII, where he inspired his team without denying his faults, got along well (if still acting dorky) with the people around him, and pushes towards his goal- not necessarily with optimimism but determination and even confidence. It just takes him a really long time to get to this point.
 
X-SOLDIER

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I think that the good part about AC/C that so many people fail to realize, is it's about Cloud really, completely getting over his shortcomings. The fact that he's not really even around to see in DoC doesn't let you get a look at Cloud being himself, outside of all the strife (see what I did thar :awesome: ).

This more than anything is why I'm kind of afraid of a remake. Is that they'll forget the tone that makes Cloud Cloud, and chalk too much of his oddities up to Jenova and his fractured mind's persona of himself.


X :neo:
 
Max Payne

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
X-SOLDIER said:
I think that the good part about AC/C that so many people fail to realize, is it's about Cloud really, completely getting over his shortcomings. The fact that he's not really even around to see in DoC doesn't let you get a look at Cloud being himself, outside of all the strife (see what I did thar :awesome: ).

This more than anything is why I'm kind of afraid of a remake. Is that they'll forget the tone that makes Cloud Cloud, and chalk too much of his oddities up to Jenova and his fractured mind's persona of himself.


X :neo:
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The problem is, AC/C handled it really poorly and you never get to see the real Cloud in the film. Just this softspoken wooden face dood that does a lot of moping.
 
ForceStealer

ForceStealer

Double Growth
X-SOLDIER said:
I think that the good part about AC/C that so many people fail to realize, is it's about Cloud really, completely getting over his shortcomings. The fact that he's not really even around to see in DoC doesn't let you get a look at Cloud being himself, outside of all the strife (see what I did thar :awesome: ).
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However, what little you do see (and more of what you hear) is promising. He's confident, he jokes with Vincent, and though the game isn't about him, he still kinda "orders" Vincent about what to do.
I'm less worried about that particular aspect of a remake because if they jsut leave the script alone Cloud shouldn't change too much (I know seeing facial expressions and stuff can change some stuff).

What I was concerned about is the conclusion to the Compilation. You've all seen me defend Cloud's depression in Advent Children, and I still think it makes sense in-universe. But if they KEPT him that way afterwards (like he is in Kingdom Hearts), then that would be really shitty. The brief glimpses of him we get in Dirge makes me a little hopeful, and the fact that he was different in Crisis Core says to me that Square is at least somewhat aware of the changes in his character...
 
Max Payne

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
I still think it makes sense in-universe
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It made sense in AC/C, but I stand by the opinion that it was badly presented.
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I think lightning's a pretty cool guy, eh moseys Sephiroth and doesnt afraid of anythin.
 
ForceStealer

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Yeah I understand that.

Also, though I think KH's presentation is a lousy Cloud too, even KHII had that scene where he was being cocky (and subtly ripping on Squall at the same time), which also could potentially bode well.

And Dissidia...he's a little of both, which makes sense as that game condensed every character's progression into an hour. But he still was a leader among leaders, again - a good sign. Though that could still be moot given that it could have just been due to Cloud's popularity or the fact that he's the oldest of the FF main characters.
 
Max Payne

Max Payne

Banned
AKA
Leon S. Kennedy,Terry Bogard, The Dark Knight, Dacon, John Marston, Teal'c
ForceStealer said:
Yeah I understand that.

Also, though I think KH's presentation is a lousy Cloud too, even KHII had that scene where he was being cocky (and subtly ripping on Squall at the same time), which also could potentially bode well.
.
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That doesn't matter because it's not even Cloud.
 
ForceStealer

ForceStealer

Double Growth
It matters because the same people are writing it. So if they get it that Cloud's badassery is what's cool in KH, maybe they'll get it in the series proper.
 
Splintered

Splintered

unsavory tart
ForceStealer said:
It matters because the same people are writing it. So if they get it that Cloud's badassery is what's cool in KH, maybe they'll get it in the series proper.
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I kind of agree, it matters because to us at least because this is the kind of fandom that is suppose to dissect information.

Nomura wrote Cloud with a sense of underwhelming stoicism, this is what he is characterizing him as. And now the fans are using that as the lowest common denominator, when they totally ignore the fact it's not that he's angsty, he's mostly insecure and more than likely confused.

I always find it pretentious when people say that the creator got his own creation wrong, but damnit I will in this case. Cloud one word grunts have never been the point of his character, what made him great is that he pushed through the doubts and became someone who took on the end of the world.

In AC/C I can understand because it was basically his "In the Case of" story where characters hit their all time bottom before they finally get over their problems. And that his character fit the general mood of the entire movie. But what about Dissidia and KH? Can you really imagine that's the same Cloud that made speeches about trains, dressed up in women's clothing, and gave advice to Yuffie about motion sickness?
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
What was his problem in Dissidia? Are you seriously saying Cloud asking the fundamental question of what the hell they were all fighting for, was a problem? He was the only one who actually figured out there was more to it than just "HURR DURR KILL THE BADDIES."

I'll take a hero who thinks and is willing to stop and not go in eagerly head first, than a typical shonen cliche of "LETS ALL FIGHT EVERYONE!" ^__^
 
ForceStealer

ForceStealer

Double Growth
In fairness, Cloud was not at all pleased by that drag thing :monster:

But consider, for example, Case of Tifa. In that you actually do see Cloud descend from who he was in VII to becoming depressed again. I loved the scene where Barret was drunkenly barking orders at construction workers while Cloud would follow behind him quietly correcting him.
THAT'S a Cloud thing. In his ACC state, he would not have cared - or more accurately - would not have thought that his instructions would be any better. Also, the sequences of Cloud teaching Marlene and Denzel how to spell. Its little stuff like that that give me a bit of hope that, at the very least, Nojima is conscious of where he is going with the character.

Honestly, Cid summed up Cloud's character better than anyone:
Cid said:
"I want you to know that I didn't dislike him. Gotta admit he was a strange dude. Just when you thought he was cool, he'd go and do some damn fool thing. And when you thought he was smart, he'd show how stupid he was. Everything about him from his movements to his speech were kinda odd. Knowin' what I do now, I can see why he was that way."
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:monster:
 
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Cat Rage Room

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Clou's personality is one thing that SE seems to have a pretty decent grip on. I hope they continue it in the Compilation (and maybe a remake) and they don't fuck it up.
 
X-SOLDIER

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I'm Batman said:
The problem is, AC/C handled it really poorly and you never get to see the real Cloud in the film. Just this softspoken wooden face dood that does a lot of moping.
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Agreed- and this is why (and how it could've been fixed).

It's because it relies to heavily on assuming you know that Cloud's normally not emo/sad/hopeless, and he's in a funk during AC/C because of the events talked about in OTWTAS.

Even if you had NO clue about OTWTAS, if they had a brief scene with Cloud being his normal cocky self with everyone as they left the church, and THEN had Zack / Aerith standing there (where they later make the memorial), and Cloud saw them and smiled as he turned and looked back, this would've been obvious.

Instead of that, they just had Zack & Aerith leave the church, and Cloud smile as Aerith left, which just incited OMG111 talk about the LTD, and makes everyone think that Cloud smiling is a goddamned christmas miracle, which it's not.

Holy shit, I just wrote a better version of AC/C's ending by doing nothing but changing position of the characters, and gave the subtle hint that it's THEM that are moving on, not the dead people who will always be there.



X :neo:
 
ForceStealer

ForceStealer

Double Growth
lol.

X-SOLDIER said:
makes everyone think that Cloud smiling is a goddamned christmas miracle, which it's not.
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Agreed. I remember interviews and stuff emphasizing that Cloud never smiled once he was himself in the game - first off, how can you tell? Secondly, you're wrong, he laughs with the rest of the party when they say "There ain't no gettin' offa this train we on" in unison on the Highwind IMMEDIATELY after he's himself.

Thirdly, he smiles in On the Way to a Smile (ironically) several times.
 
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