How do you view Cloud's Character?

[Max Payne]

What the fuck makes no sense?

I deliberately pointed out that I dispute the fucking notion that how Cloud is written in KH or anything else has no real bearing no the mainline FF7 series. The rest of his posts I had no problem with.

What the hell is not being understood here?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Like I said in the post above yours, I think the misunderstanding is yours since the full context of the discussion goes back more than a day. Neither Force nor I have made any predictions about Cloud in future FFVII titles based soley on KH.

 

[Max Payne]

Like I said in the post above yours, I think the misunderstanding is yours since the full context of the discussion goes back more than a day. Neither Force nor I have made any predictions about Cloud in future FFVII titles based soley on KH.

I'm not misunderstanding a goddamn thing here. I took issue with the statement he made regarding the idea that how Cloud is written in KH could reflect his future appearances.

If you don't get that, then I don't what to tell you people.

 

[Splintered]

This entire page of the thread is hilarious.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Then you're attacking a position no one here holds.

But if it'll end this nonsense, on behalf of Force and myself, I concede this argument neither of us is making.

 

[Max Payne]

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

 

[Vendel]

 

[ForceStealer]

What the hell is not being understood here?

I could say the same thing....

So its completely and totally unreasonable to think that that one little moment of Cloud being himself in KH2 is a cause for a bit of cautious optimism that just maybe the writers "get it" about why Cloud is likable? That's all I was saying. It does NOT mean that KH has any bearing on Cloud or that how Cloud was written in KH was EXACTLY how the writers will write Cloud in the future. Its just a sign that the writers were aware that Cloud is not all angst all the time.

Yes, that has been proven by Dissidia, as Tres said it was insignificant afterthought of an example, and it was relieving at the time.

 

[Max Payne]

I could say the same thing....

No.

I said Kingdom Hearts' Cloud didn't matter, YOU argued with me that he did. Then you imply that it could influence future FF games with the statement I quoted, and yes it's a goddamn implication. I didn't agree with the notion at all. You continued to argue with me, and now you're saying you never said that?

What the fuck.

That doesn't matter because it's not even Cloud.

It matters because the same people are writing it. So if they get it that Cloud's badassery is what's cool in KH, maybe they'll get it in the series proper.

THAT RIGHT THERE.

 

[ForceStealer]

You continued to argue with me, and now you're saying you never said that?

What the fuck indeed. I never said that KH Cloud has any bearing on the real Cloud. I said that it COULD POTENTIALLY BODE WELL (exact words) that he acted like himself in that one scene.

You said that that one scene did not matter (and therefore could not bode well) - at least that's what I assumed you were referring to because that was what I said. I disputed that. IF you were saying that KH Cloud does not influence Cloud's story in FF7, then I do not dispute that.

 

[Max Payne]

What the fuck indeed. I never said that KH Cloud has any bearing on the real Cloud. I said that it COULD POTENTIALLY BODE WELL (exact words) that he acted like himself in that one scene.

THAT RIGHT THERE IS THE GODDAMN IMPLICATION YOU CAD.

You're saying that in reference to the rest of the compilation series right?

You said that that one scene did not matter (and therefore could not bode well) - at least that's what I assumed you were referring to because that was what I said. I disputed that. IF you were saying that KH Cloud does not influence Cloud's story in FF7, then I do not dispute that.

I said that none of it matters in regards to FF7. That's all I've ever been arguing, because they can do whatever the fuck they want in KH like make Cloud a mopey retard who runs off and leaves his friends behind when they're under siege by bazillions of heart stealing monsters to chase after his mancrush.

It doesn't really bode well for the rest of the series because KH is an AU where pretty much anything can happen for a character who is Cloud only in name. None of it really matters. Sure, it might be a hint that they will take Cloud back to his roots in the future.

But it's largely irrelevant because SE could still continue the quiet reserved demeanor Cloud had in AC because it's popular. They can do whatever they want with him in KH though.

 

[ForceStealer]

That's the implication that KH Cloud is the same as FF7 Cloud? Saying that the fact that writers (the SAME writers) saw fit to have Cloud show a glimmer of not-depression might be a good sign? That implies that KH is FF7 canon?

I am fully and totally aware that KH Cloud could disembowel every single person that he knows and watch them bleed out while smoking a cigar and know that it would do NOTHING to VII's canon. But if that happened, would you not be a LITTLE concerned about what those same writers might be planning for Cloud in the Compilation? Just a little bit? Because that is my point in reverse.

 

[Max Payne]

That's the implication that KH Cloud is the same as FF7 Cloud? Saying that the fact that writers (the SAME writers) saw fit to have Cloud show a glimmer of not-depression might be a good sign? That implies that KH is FF7 canon?

What? I didn't say that.

What I'm saying is you implied that it could influence the direction they take him in future games.

I am fully and totally aware that KH Cloud could disembowel every single person that he knows and watch them bleed out while smoking a cigar and know that it would do NOTHING to VII's canon. But if that happened, would you not be a LITTLE concerned about what those same writers might be planning for Cloud in the Compilation? Just a little bit? Because that is my point in reverse.

I'm concerned with whatever SE plans. But I don't generally put much stock in AUs. If I did I couldn't read comics.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if SE did that after Capcom pulled the hobo twi-hard Dante on us.

 

[ForceStealer]

What? I didn't say that.

But you implied it

Sorry I'm done. I still don't really think I implied that, but I guess so, since I duped Mako as well according to his hit-and-run post. So a misunderstanding it was all around.

 

[Max Payne]

But you implied it
.

MAYBE SO

 

[Ryushikaze]

Going back to 'Cloud is Spidey', the hilarious thing is how FITTING it is. Not just for Cloud, but for his character interactions too.

You got a Mary Jane, a Gwen Stacy, Green Goblin, all that.
You even have a sort of Norman Osbourne, too.

And no, Ultimate Spidey isn't 616 Spidey, but they (unfortunately) decided to take 616 Spidey in the same direction as Ultimate spidey, to the detriment of his character. I hope that does not happen to Cloud.

 

[Max Payne]

I don't really see the similarities myself.

Parker was sorta like him before his powers, but not anymore.

Also 616 spidey has gone in a really different direction that Ultimate.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The similarities between Cloud and Spider-Man are actually pretty stark:
-Awkward, outcast teenager who gains superhuman abilities
-Period of cockiness and overconfidence following the gaining of those abilities before tragedy strikes, leaving a renewed sense of purpose
-Ginormous responsibility hangups, including some wrapped up in the aforementioned tragedy
-Any attempts at being cool as an adult just underscore continued awkwardness
-Gwen Stacy-analogue in Aerith, a love interst who is killed in front of him while he's unable to do anything about it
-Mary Jane-analogue in Tifa, the "more obviously sexy" love interest who he ends up with
-Norman Osborn-analogue in Sephiroth, an archenemy who doesn't seem to want to stay dead
-Effective leader who others look to despite his own self-confidence issues

 

[Roger]

-Period of cockiness and overconfidence following the gaining of those abilities before tragedy strikes, leaving a renewed sense of purpose

That's not quite right though for Cloud.

 

[Max Payne]

The similarities between Cloud and Spider-Man are actually pretty stark:
-Awkward, outcast teenager who gains superhuman abilities
-Period of cockiness and overconfidence following the gaining of those abilities before tragedy strikes, leaving a renewed sense of purpose
-Norman Osborn-analogue in Sephiroth, an archenemy who doesn't seem to want to stay dead
-Gwen Stacy-analogue in Aerith, a love interst who is killed in front of him while he's unable to do anything about it

I'm willing to give you these to a degree. I disagree a little on the Aerith/Gwen bit. Gwen's death wasn't a result of her own actions, and Parker COULD have stopped it had he made it in time. There was nothing Cloud could do to save Aerith with Sefiros in his head. Oh, and was never confirmed to really be interested in Aerith in that way, and Aerith never slept with Sefiros and had his two terrible children.

-Ginormous responsibility hangups, including some wrapped up in the aforementioned tragedy

I wouldn't really say Cloud has the same hangup to the degree Parker does. It's only become a major issue for Cloud in a few incidents, most in retrospective of his life when he's dying. Parker however, is CONSUMED by it, so much so it's a constant theme and driving force in his life. It's such a big part of him it lead to his guilt consuming him and causing him to make a terrible choice with no regard for the people it affected most.

-Any attempts at being cool as an adult just underscore continued awkwardness

What. Parker has plenty of badass moments that earn him cool points over the years. He rarely fails at being cool when it matters.

-Mary Jane-analogue in Tifa, the "more obviously sexy" love interest who he ends up with

Actually Black Cat would be "more sexy" love interest, and you can't really say Parker "ends up" with MJ after the whole OMD incident and them deciding to just be friends(it's an asinine clusterfuck but what are you gonna do?).

-Effective leader who others look to despite his own self-confidence issues

Paker is a TERRIBLE leader. He himself acknowledges this, this is one of the reasons he avoided being a part of a team for years. He's willing to take orders and fall in line in the Avengers because he really doesn't trust his own judgment when it comes to ordering other people around.

I don't remember a moment where other heroes have looked to him to lead them in a time of crisis.

Also, while Cloud's brashness/arrogance/general rudeness was a result of his mind being fucked with, he's still a really nice, kind guy at heart that really wouldn't want to hurt anyone.

Parker on the other hand really is an asshole. He's a good guy, yes. But he's also a rude, loudmouth arrogant asshole and master troll. He has no problem insulting ANYONE friend or foe, and will go to great lengths to humiliate people(burning johnny storms hair off, leaving tiretracks on the Daily Bugle)

For example:

 

[Kobato]

Cloud is a sarcastic, and cocky character and he enjoys provoking other people for his lols, the way he mocks Barret at the beginning of the game is a huge example. Also what he can say to Aerith. " Oh I remember you, you were at the slum drunk " ! He is also the character that can seem rather prefect to others, Aerith saw him as her prefect romantic bodyguard, Barret was jealous of him because he thought that he was a much better leader than he was, and Tifa saw him as her own 'superman', but inside he is actually pretty awkward and insecure about himself, and him trying to model Zack is a huge example of that, he doesn't believe that he is 'good enough' inside, even though others clearly idolize him. Cloud is also pretty revengeful, most of the game is only main focus is to get revenge on Sephiroth for destroying his village, and his desire for revenge gets even worse when Aerith dies.

Cloud is also the character that becomes more warmer towards others and more caring towards his friends once he gets to know them and have a stronger connection with them more, but just getting to know people, he's as coldhearted as ice. Also Cloud is a slow dumbass when it comes to love and romance. Aerith and Tifa flirt with him all through out the game, and he has no idea what they are on about, even during the Gold Saucer dates he's completely confused with Tifa's emotions towards him. Cloud in Dissidia however seemed rather Stoic, distant, and extremely calm. Though just like in the original game, Cloud doubted himself but most of the other Final Fantasy heroes thought that he was this ''amazing champion". Firion espically.

 

[Max Payne]

, he's as coldhearted as ice

what in FF7 implied that Cloud was really a coldhearted person? His reticence in helping Avalanche, well, that wasn't really himself speaking now was it?

The REAL Cloud would never want to run off away from his dream girl for no reason, or pretend to be King Shit.

 

[Kobato]

what in FF7 implied that Cloud was really a coldhearted person?

(Tifa )"Wait, Cloud!"( Barret) "Tifa! Let him go!" "Looks like he still misses the Shinra!" ( Cloud) "Shut up!" "I don't care about either Shinra or SOLDIER!" "But don't get me wrong!" "I don't care about AVALANCHE or the Planet for that matter!"


Cloud doesn't really give a shit that Avalanche want to save the earth from being on it's last-legs. Also there's the scene in the very mako reactor where Barret is educating Cloud about what horrible harms Shin-Ra is doing to the planet, and Cloud doesn't care about the planet being tortured by the Shin-Ra, he just cares about him.


Cloud "It's not my problem." Barret "The planet's dyin', Cloud!" Cloud "The only thing I care about is finishin' this job before security and the Roboguards come."

 

[Masamune]

^ Yeah, but you're missing Dacon's point. That was the 'poser' Cloud talking, mixed up with his alter-ego.