30 minutes of brand new footage, & 100 changes to the original FFVII AC

[Makoeyes987]

When you compared Cloud's deliberate avoidance and running in AC, to his unconscious and unintentional retreating into his mind due to the Jenova cells in FFVII.

They really aren't the same unless you completely strip away the details, facts and mitigating factors of each situation.

 

[Masamune]

They are the same, because in both instances Cloud believes himself to be a failure. Cloud still considered himself a failure even when he snapped out of his fake reality. He recognised that he never made it into SOLDIER and that weakness allowed Jenova to pull his inner-demons to the surface. It's just as much a part of Cloud's self-image as his ordeal in AC.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's what I'm talking about. You're not taking in the details or the mitigating factors into account. Which are equally important when trying to draw parallels between two scenarios.

Yeah...both times Cloud thought of himself as a failure. Okay. But that doesn't make them perfectly the same. That's like saying Cloud and Squall are the same because both are men of few words and go through times of withdrawal. Yes..they are men of few words, but that's where the similarities end. Cloud is not comfortable being alone or a loner. Squall however, is. Cloud works well with people, but Squall is more of a lone wolf who prefers to do things his own way.

When you strip things down like that you can find similarities between anything. Cloud in FFVII was not isolating himself and running away from his teammates because he didn't make it into SOLDIER as a teenager and thus didn't want to be a burden. Cloud wasn't purposefully running away from his past and choosing to be a different person who was a SOLDIER 1st Class.

 

[Masamune]

The details are irrelevant because I always said the circumstances were different, but it's the core of the character we're interested in. It's repetitive for Cloud to have two themes of failure, when he pushed himself in FFVII to get over one.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Lots of characters deal with the same central issue in varying aspects in media. And really, real life isn't just getting over one core issue...with it never cropping up again in life.

I mean, hell, one person may end up successfully quitting smoking but then find out he also is addicted to sex. He got over one addiction successfully, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll never ever suffer from the core issue of addiction ever again in life. Issues have a way of permeating and touching varying aspects of person in differing ways.

Cloud dealing with "failure" in the grieving sense (i.e. survivor's guilt) isn't the same as Cloud dealing with the self esteem issue of never fulfilling his goal of becoming a hero. I mean, yeah its all "failure" but that's a bit of a radical reduction to me.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I know all storytelling has a central conflict, but for the next title that Cloud is in, I really just want to see him kick ass after ass after ass. Like giant amounts of ass.

Just chippin' that thought in!

 

[Max Payne]

That central conflict could be Cloud having a giant ass to kick.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I always had this image in my head of Cloud and Tifa worrying over the kids because of DG invading Edge, and thus not knowing what happened to them due to them being separated during the conflict.

And then Tifa looks over at Cloud worriedly, as if expecting him to be afraid or to falter with the sudden reemergence of a threat to the planet and the fear of death, but Cloud just smiles cooly and saying something simple as, "Don't worry, we'll find them and get them out of here."

That's what I would expect to happen. Cloud would just silently but confidently ride it out and maybe he'd be worried, but he wouldn't let it break him and he'd just keep moving forward. It's what I expect to happen. I don't expect him to suddenly collapse or cave like he did before.

It's kind of why I like the line in AC-Complete where Cloud says, "This time, I want to look after and protect Tifa and the kids."

 

[Masamune]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=559.msg24165#msg24165 date=1235778229]
Lots of characters deal with the same central issue in varying aspects in media. And really, real life isn't just getting over one core issue...with it never cropping up again in life.

I mean, hell, one person may end up successfully quitting smoking but then find out he also is addicted to sex. He got over one addiction successfully, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll never ever suffer from the core issue of addiction ever again in life.[/quote]

But real-life is not as formulaic as fiction. For example, we could meet an alcoholic who loses everything in his life but then beats the habit and wins it all back. Yet later on he relapses and loses it all again. That happens. But it would be a very crummy story with no satisfaction or cohesion.

My point is that we already watched Cloud fight the demons of failure that isolated himself from the truth and his loved ones (Tifa, Aerith, they're victims to name a few). I don't want to see it all over again. I want to see Cloud living his life without needing a whole new epiphany.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well that's true, real life isn't as formulaic as fiction. And while fiction sometimes tries to mimic and give a slice of real life, sometimes those slices of real life don't always translate into entertaining pieces of fiction.

But if Cloud isn't fighting the exact same problem or doing the exact same thing, I don't see how you can say its formulaic or similar. I mean yes, it still is from the central core theme of "failure" but I just don't see it as being the exact same or whatever. I guess it's a matter of taste. I'm a lot more flexible I guess, and I was happy because Cloud snapped out of it and was stronger for it in the end.

Oh well, I guess we better go back to agreeing to disagree now.

 

[Zacreael]

excuse me, can u pls tell me about this ACC? im new in here

 

[Makoeyes987]

Here's a good source of info for Advent Children Complete

 

[Tetsujin]

Lol.

Alternatively, you could've just checked this thread, as it already reveals what exactly ACC is.

 

[Cthulhu]

Here's a good source of info for Advent Children Complete

lulzulz . You should've just posted a link to our frontpage though.

 

[Tennyo]

lol Mako. You've made my day. XD

 

[Kuraudo]

Spoiler

I was hoping for more Aerith in the water scene (death scene)


But I enjoyed seeing old Cait Sith though. Ending made me happy with the Sword.

 

[Tennyo]

KYAH spoiler spoiler tag it, tag it!!!!!

 

[Makoeyes987]

DO NOT TALK ABOUT ACC's SPOILERS OUTSIDE THE SPOILER FORUM GUY.

Why the hell are you even talking about this here?