All-New/Extrordinary/Uncanny X-Men (2013-2019) [Marvel]

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
My biggest issue is that
Eva is way, Way, WAY MORE dangerous than Matthew ever was, and she fails to see it.

While he caused visible collateral damage and killed people, everyone could see what that damage was and he was afraid of his powers. Eva isn't and she's too headstrong about it. There's NO WAY to know the types of fucked up chaos that she's causing with what she's doing. Case in point - it looks like she's managed to completely erase Xavier & Mystique's relationship, and thereby Raze & Xavier II from existence at the same time (with the offhanded comment about nothing about that being in Charles' last will & testament).

Which is fucking weird and broken because if that happened, there's whole other arcs that wouldn't have happened either all of the Uncanny team, and other things that might be totally fucked now.

This doesn't even get to the point about the fact that Raze & Xavier were time traveling into the past and using a cascading timeline to be able to avoid their mistakes by learning about them. Buuuut Eva's time travel is all a single connected loop where she just shows up and whatever she's done has irrevocably fucked everything up and disappeared it out of time and is completely unable to be recovered - like her family from 2099.


What grinds my gears exceptionally hard is that she didn't at least go LOOK at what actually happened and just makes assumptions to judge Cyclops like a narrow-minded little cunt for no reason. Apparently her & Xavier could find Matthew's parents somewhere in the middle of a city at the EXACT moment they met, so they could've just gone to any point in space/time to have seen what really happened and stopped the goddamn helicarrier from blowing the three of them away at all. If it went south from there, you have Xavier and Scott face-to-face to figure out the problem FOR REAL to deal with Matthew (since, according to her - Charles was the only person who could control him - more an that later) and not this ridiculous horseshit so-called-solution.


Also, as far as saving the rest of them, it's (unsurprisingly) Storm's fault for exacerbating the situation with Matthew to the point that anyone else died, so *shrugs* Eva technically did stop a shitstorm from happening, but it's total bullshit from a narrative perspective for the above-mentioned reasons.


Another point that a reblog of that mentioned was this:

The thing that really gets me, is that she says that “Only Charles Xavier could control him!” and she’s pissed Scott then proceeded to fail, and she is “going to keep an eye on him!”
To make sure he doesn’t…what, exactly? Not be Charles Xavier some more?


Everything I mentioned above any yeah.

FFS.




X :neo:
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Do we know
Raze and Xavier II are erased? Just because the marriage to Mystique is doesn't necessarily entail that her kid with Xavier is gone, much less her kid with Wolverine.

By the way, there shouldn't be any appreciable difference between how they would change time and how Tempus would. One of the consequences of "Age of Ultron" was that time travel no longer produces alternate timelines/universes -- it outright changes whatever universe you're in.

Anyhow, you are right that there's no obvious reason why Eva and Xavier couldn't have tried to change things closer to the critical moments when people started dying -- but even if Xavier from the past showed up and put the mental blocks on adult Malloy before he started killing people on accident, they would still have to deal with the possibility of those mental blocks fading again at some point down the line. Not that I'm saying they shouldn't have tried before doing what they did, but considering a) they dont know exactly when those blocks started to fade, and b) what happened to Exodus when he made mental contact with Malloy, it's probably a good thing they didn't give that a shot!

And, hell, seeing as they didn't know it was S.H.I.E.L.D. who sent everything down the drain, you can hardly blame them for not getting close enough to check out what set Malloy off. All Eva knows is that Cyclops went to talk to him, and the next thing anybody knows, Magnus was dumped on her lawn saying that he didn't do enough to stop Cyclops from putting them all in harm's way -- and then X-Men started dying left and right.

What's Eva to think? She wouldn't be out of turn to conclude that Cyke tried to recruit Malloy for his revolution (which he did attempt) only for it to backfire in his face by Malloy killing him and then targeting the rest of the X-Men Scott spoke of.

I would also point out that Eva is no more to blame for the decision to erase Malloy than Xavier. They both chose to do it. Why didn't he insist more on trying other means rather than proving valid the fears of baseline humans that some mutants are just too dangerous to live among the rest of humanity?

It was a shit situation, and given the risk involved with attempting any other solution, I'm extremely hard pressed to say Eva didn't make the right call even if she didn't -- and couldn't safely -- have all of the facts.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I don't think that they mentioned that explicitly, but it seemed heavily implied.
Also, that time travel thing is a fact I was unaware of, but I'm not sure how Xavier & Raze kept sending themselves messages in the future, because that would be paradox city.

In any case, I think it's more that no one even watched it happen, or looked for another option when they literally have free reign to trapse around time and look at things apparently. Also, to be clear, I'm also not a fan of Xavier at all either. I'm more hurt because Eva was close to being a favourite new mutant of mine, and now everything that I liked about her just completely evaporated in this issue.

Really what gets to me isn't that she erased a single shitty day for the X-Men, it's that that day represents SEVEN FUCKING MONTHS worth of comics that were full of really important emotional character development for Scott, Magnus, & others to have gone through to finally address a ton of things that resulted from AvX. If this had been recapped in two comics, who cares, but all of the things that happened in minutiae were HUGE for digging out all the details (and why I liked them as much as I did despite being painstakingly slow), and undoing that is just the worst possible thing because the ONE person who still lived that reality didn't even get all the facts straight before erasing it.

It's all irrevocably undone insofar as I can tell, and I fucking hate that.




X :neo:
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
And, hell, seeing as they didn't know it was S.H.I.E.L.D. who sent everything down the drain, you can hardly blame them for not getting close enough to check out what set Malloy off. All Eva knows is that Cyclops went to talk to him, and the next thing anybody knows, Magnus was dumped on her lawn saying that he didn't do enough to stop Cyclops from putting them all in harm's way -- and then X-Men started dying left and right.

A simple news broadcast would've told them that Malloy was depopulating entire US counties before Cyclops was able to have anything to do with it,
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Even if S.H.I.E.L.D. wasn't keeping things on lockdown for the moment, X-Men don't really listen to the news what with the years and years of it being biased against them unless someone like Trish Tilby was doing the reporting. They're also going to pay more attention to what Magneto says than some news anchor.
 
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Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Even if S.H.I.E.L.D. wasn't keeping things on lockdown for the moment, X-Men don't really listen to the news what with the years and years of it being biased against them unless someone like Trish Tilby was doing the reporting. They're also going to pay more attention to what Magneto says than some news anchor.

Well I hope this shit comes back to haunt Eva and Cyclops, even if Black Vortex sets Storm straight, really the elements among the existing cast that actually got people killed remain unresolved: Maria Hill and Emma's residual feelings for Cyclops. If Eva was a wiser God she would've been like: "Okay, you two need to bone down on Scott Summers and get that sh*t out of the way or people are gonna get hurt. FYI I'll be watching you every step of the way."
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Maria Hill and Scott Summers would have the hottest hate fucks ever. If he doesn't get back with Emma, that's the only acceptable alternative -- I would pay good money to see that.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I get where her limited view comes from, but I still hold to the fact that she & Xavier can go wherever they want in spacetime apparently, and they should've gotten the whole fucking story first. Also, if Xavier was, "The only one who could control him." what exactly was her proposed solution for the X-Men to have done? She doesn't offer ANY advice on how it should've been handled, but just tells Scott that he fucked up everything single-handedly, and it's all his fault. If she got Xavier who is supposedly the key to containing Matthew, why didn't they even try to use that to stop him? Why blame anyone when they failed whatever they attempted because the king of the mutant "do as I say not as I do" methodology wasn't there? It's total bullshit.

Like the Stepfords said - it wasn't her call, and she'd gotten help, she might not've just gone off the rails like a stupid kid. She's still more dangerous and uncontrollable than Matthew now. Full stop.




X :neo:
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I get where her limited view comes from, but I still hold to the fact that she & Xavier can go wherever they want in spacetime apparently, and they should've gotten the whole fucking story first.
What impetus would they have for that? The Cuckoos read Scott's mind and shared with the other NXS students what he planned. Magnus got thrown on the door step, saying he failed to stop Scott from putting them all in danger.

And then X-Men started dying.

Really, what was their motivation to risk getting killed to find out more? To leave Scott, Illyana, etc. dead but save Matthew Malloy, who deliberately ends up killing Emma and the staff and student body of the JGS -- after he's already declared war on baseline humanity at that? To make sure she doesn't accidentally bitch Cyclops out for the wrong thing?

Those are not worthwhile priorities in my book.

I keep seeing this condemnation of Eva for not "investigating" more, but even if there was a good reason to do it, just getting near the dude was fucking suicide. Scott almost died at Malloy's hand while just trying to have a conversation with him, and would have died had Magik not teleported him away in time. Just making mental contact with him got Exodus and Headlok killed, and when Rachel did it -- while trying to do precisely what Xavier used to do with Malloy -- a helicarrier got broken in half.

There was nothing to be gained from running unnecessary reconnaissance, everything to be lost, and no safe way to approach doing so.
X said:
Also, if Xavier was, "The only one who could control him." what exactly was her proposed solution for the X-Men to have done? She doesn't offer ANY advice on how it should've been handled, but just tells Scott that he fucked up everything single-handedly, and it's all his fault.
Fair enough.

X said:
If she got Xavier who is supposedly the key to containing Matthew, why didn't they even try to use that to stop him?
See above.

X said:
Like the Stepfords said - it wasn't her call, and she'd gotten help, she might not've just gone off the rails like a stupid kid. She's still more dangerous and uncontrollable than Matthew now. Full stop.
Even if I agree (I do) that the timing seemed rather oddly abrupt when she started talking about time travel (Scott wasn't dead yet), there's no arguing that it was a fortutious decision and that she also saved everyone. =P
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Even if I agree (I do) that the timing seemed rather oddly abrupt when she started talking about time travel (Scott wasn't dead yet), there's no arguing that it was a fortutious decision and that she also saved everyone. =P

There are still so many people that are dead that could be alive tho. Since she decided to go above and beyond just end a bad situation and straight up bestow unto herself the right to decide that this group of dead people deserve life more then this living person, she should do it right.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I'm still wondering whether
we're supposed to infer that Wolverine is dead because of this.

My biggest doubt about that is how Bendis conveniently (since Logan is supposed to have been dead by this time in publishing) removed him from the story in issue #27 by having Malloy teleport him off to parts unknown rather than one of the schools (like with everyone else), and then, after Ororo enquired about him once, he was never mentioned again. Illyana went to collect Cyclops at the New Xavier School, so they had no trouble tracking him down, but no one said anything more about Logan.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
This issue just felt like more pointless backpedaling to follow up last issue. I'm still completely devoid of any fucks to give.




X :neo:
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
This issue was just Illyana & Kitty rescuing a new young mutant from Monster Island. Everything about it was nice and normal and made me forget the previous ridiculousness aside from the fact that they bring her back and drop her off with Storm.


X :neo:
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
So, if I might be permitted to ask what I can only assume is the most tiresome question in relation to comics:

I have never gotten into comics, but always thought that if there were ever one for me to get into, it would be X-Men. And I'm tempted sometimes when I spot those big collection books or omnibuses. Are those a good thing to start with? Or should I be looking for a specific one?

Thanks :monster:
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
So, if I might be permitted to ask what I can only assume is the most tiresome question in relation to comics:

I have never gotten into comics, but always thought that if there were ever one for me to get into, it would be X-Men. And I'm tempted sometimes when I spot those big collection books or omnibuses. Are those a good thing to start with? Or should I be looking for a specific one?

Thanks :monster:

Yeah, you wanna get one that starts with Giant-Sized X-Men #1.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Welcome aboard, Force!

To answer your question: They absolutely can be. Omnibuses are generally collections of a particular writer's run, of a whole (or quarter/half) of series if it's short enough, or even just a big chunk of chronological issues when dealing with series as long-running as the X-Men books.

I wouldn't get an omnibus to break into the X-Men's history, though, unless it was from during Claremont's run. The quality of individual stories varies so much. You may be okay if, say, you started with "Giant-Size X-Men" #1 (first appearances of Storm, Nightcrawler, the original Thunderbird and Colossus, as well as when Wolverine, Sunfire and Banshee joined) and then read from the beginning of Chris Claremont's long, long run on the books (which lasted from 1975-1991).

Claremont's run was consistent, awesome and really defined the mythos until at least the early 2000s when Grant Morrison set the new foundations.

Honestly, though all of Claremont's time is worth reading, "Mutant Genesis" ("X-Men" #1-3; 1991) may be one of the best storylines to start with. It was actually at the very end of Claremont's run, but that was a pretty definitive storyline for the X-Men for a number of years, for reasons I'll let CBR explain:

"This storyline, which was the end of Chris Claremont’s initial tenure on the X-Men titles, reads like the ultimate X-Men movie screenplay, if budget was no object. After first introducing the newly reformed X-Men (having merged X-Factor and the X-Men into one massive team), the X-Men are forced into conflict against Magneto, who now has his own group of followers called the Acolytes. Magneto manages to capture the first team of X-Men sent after him and also brainwash them into becoming his followers. This leads to the remaining X-Men (the 'Gold' team, because the 'Less cool characters' team sounded less appealing) having to both take down their comrades while still managing to save them. This storyline also comes with a major revelation about Moira MacTaggert that lands her squarely in the realm of the 'Charles Xavier school of messed up stuff that I didn’t want to tell you I did because it was so messed up.' Besides drawing a series of impressive and imaginative battles, artist Jim Lee also re-designed most of the X-Men’s costumes which were all adapted by the X-Men: Animated Series, so soon became the definitive look for a number of the X-Men, including Cyclops, Storm, Jean Grey and Rogue. Scott Williams inked Lee on the book."

Issue #1 of that series was also the first X-Men comic for a lot of people, and, in fact, the first comic period for a lot of people. Marvel printed the hell out of that first issue.

"God Loves, Man Kills" is an awesome one-off story (also written by Claremont) that really summarizes and encapsulates the core themes of the X-Men. Perhaps not one of the best battle showcases, but "Mutant Genesis" has that covered anyway while GLMK serves as a definitive thematic capstone.

"Days of Future Past" and "Age of Apocalypse" are a couple of other defining storylines (AoA is possibly the best large crossover story Marvel has ever done), but you should familiarize yourself more with other stories first to better appreciate and understand them.

Let me know if you have more questions. I would be thrilled to help. =)
 
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The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Yes. Some will be shorter, others longer. "God Loves, Man Kills" is probably about the length of two standard 90s issues, "Age of Apocalypse" was 39 issues total, "Days of Future Past" was only two issues, "Giant-Size X-Men" #1 is a single issue, etc.

Were you looking more for individual stories like this or a good starting point for a long run?

If the former, then "Giant-Size X-Men" #1, "God Loves, Man Kills" and "Mutant Genesis" are your place to be (that's their chronological order too, by the way, though they're all separated by several years). If the latter, still start with "Giant-Size X-Men" #1 and then go to the beginning of Claremont's run (he wrote literally the very next X-Men comic after that).
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
They do these days. It all started in the early 2000s, primarily with Brian Michael Bendis and his "decompressed" writing style that would become the house standard before long.

Used to be a single comic could have a full story and be packed with a lot of reading content beyond just dialogue (e.g. narrative boxes). There were also typically more panels per page, so even if you needed silent ones for conveying atmosphere or whatever, the natural beats of the story weren't being delayed by consuming half a page or more.

Even when it didn't have the whole story on its own, because of those narrative boxes, it might take you 15 minutes to get through a single issue, with reading everything and examining all the art. Now, you can do it in less than five.

Those narrative boxes started going away, and they really only appear now when they're conveying a character's internal narration (think "The Hunger Games"). Combine the loss of those boxes with typically fewer panels per page ("decompression") and you get stories stretched to five issues these days when they shouldn't reasonably have taken more than three, and sometimes could have been a done-in-one.

One of Bendis's recent storylines in "Uncanny X-Men" took nine issues when it shouldn't have required more than three at the very most. He's the worst for this kind of crap, but not nearly the only offender.

I will say that comics in the 60s and early 70s were usually way too compressed, but I insist that by the 90s, they had the balance perfectly struck. We rarely see anything even approaching that now (Jason Aaron does as good of a job about this as anyone currently does).
 
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