Arcane

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Season 2 is growing on me, previously I thought it was rushed, but I don’t think that’s true. It left me wanting more. On rewatches, I’m picking up details, just like with Season 1.

Also, I perfectly understood both Cait and Vi and think their actions in all of their scenes are perfectly understandable and relatable, and I think that the prison cell scene is one of the most romantic things I’ve ever seen. Maybe you just need to be a lesbian.

I think it's probably because as an eldest sibling who grew up taking a psuedo-parental role to watch over my younger sibling who was emotionally compromised because of trauma at a young age – I have a particular lens to assess Vi as a character in an extremely specific way. While I initially liked her quite a bit despite her colder exterior post-prison personality quirks that rub me the wrong way in Season 1, I just flat-out don't like her at all in Season 2 because of the writing choices missing the mark on how to execute what they're trying to do with her.

(Also, I've been in both short & long-term romantic relationships with lesbians, so I HIGHLY doubt that plays any factor here. :mon: )

The tough detachment, the "goth bi Vi" phase, as well as all the prison cell scene chemistry, etc are all VERY overwhelmingly familiar to me as much as their moments in Season 1. That's not at all why it doesn't work – as all of that's VERY on-point & instantly relatable, even if I don't always vibe with Violet's more world-worn tough outer shell reflex. The portrayal of all of those things was utterly spectacular, and I'd've been wholly emotionally taken by them otherwise BECAUSE they're just so good at nailing exactly how those things feel and capturing those moments in the animation & acting. Absolutely zero notes there.

The writing choices are what make the circumstances that the scene is entangled with as it relates to Vi's character are why it not only doesn't do anything for me at all in making that feel romantic – but because of the wider details that are rushed over in Season 2, it ends up making ALL the emotional elements of that scene inextricably intertwined with things that utterly gut it of any possible positive impact for me and make it VERY much the opposite to watch in a sort of sickeningly uncomfortable way – because it's watching trauma repeat rather than heal).

I've also been rewatching Season 2, albeit mostly in the form of checking out other peoples' reactions while watching it. I always like getting a number of varied perspectives to help appreciate details that I've missed & get more nuance from certain people's expertise, and it also helps me narrow down if there's ways around things that might not've worked for me or ways to appreciate something even more. (On that note: There's one for Arcane Season 1 with a Therapist that's SUPER good at breaking down a lot of the specific and minute clinical details about Jinx's trauma responses – but she had a kid recently IRL, so not sure if/when she'll get around to Season 2, as I was hoping to check out her thoughts about Jinx's developments).

While Season 2 is still good for the vast majority, and there's a LOT that I just love to bits, those two things in particular are still VERY much ones that don't escape the feeling of being rushed really having a negative impact on them in ways that just... feel more & more frustrating.



As the symbolic leader everyone looks to, one of the key things that Vander does is that he prioritizes the well-being of the community first & foremost over his individual hang-ups with anyone because that's where the core of his promise sits. It's why he's got the deal with the Enforcers in Season 1, and why everyone respects him – as he cares deeply about the means by which ends are achieved. That's also what means that the progress towards the nation of Zaun actually becoming a reality is stagnating into a different normal that's a progress that isn't offsetting the negatives that are growing, and why he's seen as weak by those who are driven for change the most. That being said, Season 2 establishes a bit more about why he has an internal conflict about Vi objectively making the right choice to give herself up for the mistake that she made, which ultimately leads to all of the events in the series caused by that instability from losing him.

In contrast to that, Silco cares about the ends and will use any means to reach that ultimate outcome, rather than being stuck in limbo forever like Vander becomes after his failed attempt at crossing the bridge (which is what the schism & tension in the undercity is being caused by in their shared history). This once again eventually presents itself into the identical conundrum of being asked to sacrifice Jinx for that stability which (as Season 2 establishes) has an additional weight from the exact same place as Vander's does which necessarily complicates that. They both promised Violet's / Powder's mom that they'd make sure to get everything with the undercity & the nation of Zaun figured out – so that her kids would have a future.

For both Vander & Silco, sacrificing her child's life in order to achieve the end of bringing about the nation of Zaun for the collective is ultimately morally entangled in a self-sabotaging end-goal for them as individuals. They're inverse mirrors of one another as neither of them can truly give up that bond to the person they care about most just to make a world that's safe for everyone else. This is essentially THE classic division that leaders have where they have to sacrifice their humanity for their position or sacrifice their position for their humanity – and there is no right answer here, because both choices cause an irreversible pain to lose something that you can't ever get back and the circumstances make that a binary option that forces you into one path or the other. (It's the source of the Arthur / Guinevere / Lancelot love triangle & permanent schism in Camelot for Arthurian fiction, or the Griffith / Casca / Guts mirror in BERSERK). It's also the same existential paradox that often gets used in revenge stories where getting revenge or making choices that you don't have the perspective to see understand the wider consequences of will destabilize & create the EXACT same trauma that brought it about in the first place to happen again.

THIS IS A KEY STORYTELLING DEVICE TO REMEMBER, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE WRITING IN SEASON 2 MISSES ITS MARK.

The "conflict" of both of those things in Arcane are that they're protectors who aren't allowing the person they're protecting OR the person looking out for them to actually have the agency of being informed to their choice. It's always taking action behind someone's back that's leading to problems, because the person is operating from a perspective where they don't have the whole picture, and can't act with complete information. Thus they unknowingly make a choice with that level of irreversible finality, and they react to it emotionally since our brain doesn't have time to process that wave of painful information contextually, so it turns into trauma that repeats in cyclical behaviours & reactions to those stimuli.

This is one of those things that is MASSIVELY exacerbated in the emotional codependency from younger siblings who struggle with those things the way Powder does after her & Vi's parents die. It's also shown that VIOLET KNOWS THIS – both in general AND about her sister specifically.

In season 1, Vi tells Powder before she goes to turn herself in, as even though we don't see their conversation – Powder suddenly has Vi's favourite toy which was stuck somewhere unreachable. Especially after Vander was the one who gave her the lecture about what happens when people look to you as the leader, Vi knows that she can choose to make that sacrifice and make Vander understand. It's the right call given what's happened as a result of her actions, and she's shown that she's proactively thought about what Powder is going to deal with without her. Ultimately that choice is not really any different from how we get the world where Ekko & Powder are together, and everyone is objectively happier & better off, and it's proof that this sort of thing CAN work when you are intentional about it and communicate (because that forces your brain to engage in ways that disconnect it from those traumatic responses).

Vander feels the guilt over failing when they attempted to cross the bridge and ALSO losing Silco from their schism. He explains that context to Vi directly when reinforcing just how much a choice that seems or FEELS like the right thing can hurt other people that last for a really long time. Case-in-point, Powder's codependency on her because their parents died. Most of Vander's conversations early on are things that are SUPER important to understand about being the eldest and/or being someone who's looked up to by a large community of people who are going to follow you. This is why her not having that same conversation with Vander (since she's only considering needing to talk to the people BELOW her and not ABOVE her) turns into a problem of him rushing out to save her, since she lacks the context to why he didn't give her up. What Vi gets shown here in Season 1 is that every time she DOESN'T get to ensure to communicate her choices – things fall to pieces.

She lashes out at Powder after her sister doesn't listen to her (a reflection of this where Powder is making an uninformed decision that changes the choices that Vi can make as a leader). This lapse from Vi's emotional reaction to Vander's death makes Powder have a mental breakdown and then (again through forces that Vi doesn't control) she ends up not being able to correct that, and thus Jinx is created. She spends all of Season 1 trying to figure out whether or not some part of her sister is still in there or if the traumatic coping mechanisms have erased her completely, because she's trying to see if her sister is someone that her protective pseudo-parental reflex can still be extended to, or if she HAS to let her go because that person's gone... or is at least unreachable to HER (which is actually the case).

There are plenty of times where that bond can't be repaired by the original person who was responsible for safeguarding it, but it doesn't mean that the individual is permanently lost. It just means that there's a very limited agency over their ability to help them, specifically because the traumatic triggers act on both parties in ways that don't heal things, but often just amplify that spiral – which is precisely what happens with Jinx in Season 1.

That's the whole reason that Jinx doesn't really have any ability to reconcile with Vi until AFTER Jinx winds up in a psuedo-parental role of watching over Isha. That's how she learns what it's like to have to be a symbol to other people who all collectively act on every tiny thing that you do – which is something that she fundamentally couldn't understand in her codependent relationships because no one ever followed her before. That understanding necessarily creates a lot of existential pain for Jinx, because she realizes that she WAS a liability that caused a lot of irreversible problems, but also in losing Isha to her mimicking Jinx fighing it leaves her with the sort of emptiness that exists when you lose that person you're doing your best to protect – because they're copying you without understanding what that means...

While in children or people with various levels of trauma or arrested development, it's because they don't have the lived experience to know something, for adults it's because it hasn't been explained yet, or there's information that would alter those choices if they had it. Hence the Season 1 cliffhanger being Jinx firing on the council that approved the independence for the Undercity even BEFORE she was apprehended and given over. The trauma here ALL stems from people making decisions that impact others without taking them into consideration. That's the core of why Vi having a good heart is core to her character remaining steadfast through escalatingly hopeless adversity, and refusing to allow that trauma to turn her into something else... but that's also where the flaw in delivery breaks that stoicism down into its dark mirror of stagnation.

The thing that undercuts this with Vi is that in Season 2, is Vi's first objection to taking a badge & teaming up with the Enforcers has literally nothing to do with the Undercity, it's because she's hung up about her parent's deaths when Cait's mom just died as an extension & reflection of that same conflict in a way that's INSTANTLY relatable to her. Of ALL of the lessons that Vi was supposed to have managed to internalize & come to terms with in losing Powder to Jinx being THE destabilizing catalyst it's that her sister chose sides that means that she HAS to act as the united front together with Caitlyn to resolve things and maintain peace with the undercity – which is EXACTLY how Cait phrases the invitation. Especially after Vi already hit the Shimmer facility side-by-side with Jayce, which is the equivalent of going on a spec-ops mission with the President, she's THE front-and-center person who has to step into that position, because she chose to put herself there and use that earned trust with everyone else to bolster alliance before it fractures... only to immediately develop a hang-up that doesn't serve to help anyone, and only complicates everyone else's lives. Vi knows that inaction is still a choice, because her not choosing the false ultimatum is why Powder went off. Even so, that's where her character gets tossed by the writing all season.

It's why immediately at the start of Season 2, Vi went from being a character I really liked to being a character I couldn't care less about, because as soon as she actually has the agency of choice AND a path of clear & open communication from both sides that's been missing in those situations that she's been chasing after since Season 1 – she turns on it and leaves, effectively disintegrating everything that established the core motive for her character's actions. As a result of that self-sabotaging, she regresses her into reactive self-centered wallowing all goddamn season long, which she functionally never stops doing. Maddie gives her the motivation to join up with the Enforcers by showing her how much they look up to her and see her as a beacon of positive influence from the Undercity... but when she drops that – Jinx is the one who becomes the icon of the undercity while Caitlyn becomes the icon of the Martial Law Enforcers. Rather than being a meaningful character, Vi's complete lack of meaningful development is what forces the other two to do what they do all season long.

This damage is what creates the emotional vacuum in Caitlyn that Maddie steps up to tend to. Yes, Maddie's actions are being influenced by Ambessa – but so are those of absolutely everyone else the whole season. This is why the fact that we have ZERO context on the nature of what that influence was makes everything connected to it impossible to definitively take a stance on, but ESPECIALLY with the way that Vi comes back and Caitlyn detaches from Maddie in a way that gives all the signs of shunned betrayal are enormous red flags. Maddie not trusting to close the door and leave Vi & Cait alone together – despite being established as a character who MASSIVELY looks up to both of them is just as likely to be Caitlyn treating Maddie with an increasingly inappropriate power dynamic that she displays from being in her position of authority & influenced under Ambessa's stewardship for so long as it is to be Maddie spying on Caitlyn for Ambessa. Given that Maddie is the one attempting to get Caitlyn to give up that authority when they're intimately together, it's not really justified that she's ONLY Ambessa's spy, but rather that her genuine emotions are being manipulated for Ambessa's goals. No matter what the distribution, both things are likely directly interconnected, and again this comes back to the importance of subtle nuance necessitating clear communication because of the effects that choices have on other people & what their reactions to them will be.

There's nothing that establishes that Caitlyn overtly calls things off with Maddie BEFORE she decides to wander in and fuck Vi in Jinx's prison cell. That makes the situation monumentally problematic because it's not JUST intimacy any more – now it's ALSO a knowing betrayal of someone that is in a vulnerable position to an authority figure they're in a relationship with where it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE for Caitlyn to be the victim, because she has absolute military authority over Maddie. She can order her to do anything at any time, and she HAS to comply. Pair that together with Maddie being established as looking up to Vi, and you've got a situation where Maddie's incentivized against voicing any acts of mistreatment because of an imbalanced power dynamic. This is why it's the absolute responsibility of BOTH Vi AND Caitlyn to establish that communication channel, otherwise the results of their choice over what feels good to them is creating traumatic harm for Maddie.

So, after Caitlyn cheats on Maddie with Vi, take the final words that Maddie says in anger to her about just being a warm body while she's suddenly displaying absolute loyalty to Ambessa – and recognize that this is EXACTLY what happened when Vi reactively made an emotional decision where she slapped Powder, called her a jinx, and abandoned her in an act of betrayal – which is what caused her sister to say, "I have no sister." and develop absolute loyalty to Silco.

Once again – the situation with Maddie's emotional involvement & fissure with Caitlyn is something VIOLET CAUSED.

Ambessa calls out explicitly in the tent when she thanks Vi for leaving that there's a power imbalance there to be concerned about, and in the follow-up Prison Cell scene, Caitlyn even comes to her senses after things start getting physical for a moment and tries to explain that she started seeing someone. Vi literally says that she doesn't care and pushes into it anyway. Once again, Violet is creating problems where the solution is honest communication with the vulnerable party, and the lack of that communication creates a MASSIVE backlash of emotional betrayal that traumatizes the vulnerable party – which Vi should know because she's literally inside the prison cell that her little sister only ended up in because of her because of that EXACT type of short-sighted choice preventing her from taking the fall with Vander, and then again for turning Powder from a nice, happy, cheerful little girl... and made her into Jinx, who was instantly turned against everything that she used to be – because that's what a traumatic response does to the person who isn't in a position of power when they're betrayed and someone else swoops in to offer them the stability that the person they trusted ripped away.

Maddie has no authority in her military rank NOR any seniority in emotional connection with Caitlyn AND she explicitly looks up to Vi. Unless the show makes it OVERTLY clear that she's been a day-one, complete double agent from the very first moment she shows up, there's no justification for this. Given that her as a total traitor doesn't add up for how she's placed in danger during the initial attack, how she talks to Cait in private, or multiple other details – Maddie's 100% a victim here no matter which way you slice it, and it even reinforces that in visual parallels

From the writing, Maddie responds EXACTLY like how the series has showed us that victims who are removed from any operational authority act when they're being destabilized. That vulnerability in their relationship having an inherent inescapable power dynamic is explicitly what Ambessa calls out the first time Maddie gets coldly dismissed from the room based on military rank in a way that also reflects on the emotional trust dynamic of Caitlyn's relationship to her being shaken (the authority position vs. personal split). Powder's shown spying through a cracked door to watch Vi & Mylo talking because they won't have honest conversations about how they feel about her when she's there – Maddie does the same thing when Vi shows up & Cait tells her to leave the room with that same cold authority that ignores their personal relationship, despite this not being a military matter. When Vi & Cait have to go face Jinx, they make Maddie & the others leave & go it alone... exactly the same way Powder got left behind from missions. They've written in the echoes of how that trauma forms in ways that match what EXACTLY the series has established... but they rush past the important details of following through on them for Maddie – so that what SHOULD be a hugely romantic reconciliation of Vi & Caitlyn FINALLY getting together is now watching two people ACTIVELY betray & emotionally discard someone vulnerable who looks up to both of them – because she doesn't matter enough for them to have that same empathy for her.

That is just so UNBELIEVABLY fucked up that there's no way that the Prison Cell scene could retain even the most miniscule spark of romance for me when I was watching it. The writing also showed that this wasn't an accidental moment, because there was an active choice made by Cait on where her guards were & weren't. They both decided that she wasn't worth enough to EITHER of them to be treated with the emotional protection she should be able to expect. (For me, it's just watching someone getting cheated on – and having been cheated on twice, that feeling of betrayal by someone who you're emotionally vulnerable with in that intimate way instantly plants a sickeningly inextricable knot in my stomach for that moment – and it's context that I literally can't remove from feeling in that scene, because the writing doesn't take the necessary steps to ensure that wasn't a part of what happened).

While I didn't really care about Vi this season because of the first episode turning her into a developmentally stagnated mess of a character (which is fair & makes for interesting side-effects in the narrative), this brought everything full circle to make me absolutely abhor her as a character completely not because of anything about her character in and of itself, but because the rushed writing choices make the important parts of her character vapid & anathema to her core characterization. It makes it so that this specific scene manages to be literally indistinguishable from being antithetical to the core emotional trauma of the ENTIRE SERIES and even more explicitly the damage that motivates Vi as a character being the eldest role model who NEEDS to be able to be held accountable for the choices that she makes when telling other people what to do.

Once again – the problem isn't that they're making a choice to become romantically entangled. It's that they're making a choice FOR another party (Maddie) by not giving her the necessary information to be involved in the decision OR to be considered with the care & consideration that her vulnerable position necessitates. This means that choice is knowingly made in a way which is GUARANTEED to create emotional trauma from that betrayal of trust... the EXACT same issue that's the root cause of why Vi attempting to give herself up without telling Vander, or do ANY of the other things without full conveyance ALL fail over & over again. It's why those choices cause problems to bleed into everyone else close to her, because Vi literally doesn't change AT ALL, which reshapes everyone around her into a reflection of that damage, rather than healing.

Season 2's portrayal of Vi is meant to be purposeful in not letting her change, as it's looking for be portraying Violet not losing her good heart in an admirably stoic way which mirrors when the "ghost" of Vander helps her get back up when she's bleeding on the floor of The Last Drop, and she's gotta just keep going despite everything. It's exactly what you'd expect from the post-prison unbroken butch with a heart of gold fighting against the systemic injustices with her fists & healing the pain & damage that's been caused by her absence needing a genuine moment's honest reprieve with that slightly shy but overly capable femme fatale who's just as clean & organized as she is tough & unstoppable, where they've been unable to fully connect out of fear over what happens to everything that she cares about – and finally giving in to let that kind heart embrace someone with the unchanged love she had back before the world put her in a box, taking place inside that very box that made her that cold & defensive in the first place. That's exceedingly touching, romantic, and creates a dynamic of those different types of sheltered vs. unsheltered upbringings often represented between different class dynamics that also match how a lot of lesbian couples have a very particularly balanced dynamic that this series represents spectacularly with those two, even before the heavy reinforcement of the specific sorts of traumatic reinforcements get added in to dial everything up to 11 to really make those trauma-bonding emotional connections DEEPLY important to individuals who are going through it, and who feel reflections of those things themselves.

Instead, the writing misses that mark.

It's not taken the necessary time to make sure those elements are preserved with Vi in a way where she's just getting shielded from her own arrested development, which is also what ultimately leads to why Jinx blows herself up to remove the rest of those damaged consequences from Vi needing to experience accountability for them – because Vi's ALWAYS functionally incapable of handling anything that Vander taught her how to be responsible for this ENTIRE season. This flaw is predicated on her being overly self-protective of that kind heart of hers, and not wanting to just keep putting it out there over and over again – which is necessary, even knowing that there IS no perfect way to do everything – because as soon as you find yourself thrust into a position of significant influence, there are people who WILL get hurt because of you, and you have to own that. You have to be tough enough to take those hits and stand back up, which means that you need that other person who ACTUALLY cares about that kind heart of yours to keep it from taking more hits than it can recover from... but that CANNOT shield you from being held accountable for your own mistakes. Accountability feels like an attack when you don't understand the impact that your actions have on others – and that's why the writing obfuscating the impact of Violet's & Caitlyn's choice to make the seal of their compassion for one another an act of infidelity that motivates traumatized betrayal feel sickening. The fact that because it's a love scene that the consequences aren't actually felt by either of them in any meaningful way just rings SO hollow.

It's just beyond infuriating – because I WANT to like those things as they're OVERLY stacked with things that are just absurdly coded for me to be WAY into them. They're all JUST at the cusp of being GREAT and unabashedly lovable despite their rough edges... but that VERY specific ambiguity makes that totally impossible, especially since the whole of the series places SO much repeated emphasis on the importance of different points of view... but then manipulates those moments emotionally so that the audience has a gut reaction to Maddie's betrayal from a forced perspective that obfuscates just how fucked up everything leading up that is from any other point of view that prioritizes her as much as any of the other characters. That limited perspective is forced into place by Mel just Deus Ex Machina blocking the bullet to richochet back into Maddie's brain, so that Maddie has to pay the price for being the victim of the cycle of Vi's & Cait's trauma repeating – so that they can make their myopically passionate choices free from the actual consequences of being held accountable for doing so... exactly the way Jinx has to do the same by blowing herself up, so that her sister can have that relationship with Caitlyn – as Jinx has consistently been the schism that's been preventing them from getting together, and Maddie is just that exact same reflection of rushed writing taking a shortcut without looking at the bigger picture.

It's just the worst, and I wish it wasn't – because the ONLY thing that could fix this is – writing that just literally... isn't there to.

The reason that this stands out so much, is specifically because that's the necessary perspective that you HAVE to prioritize as the leader that Vander tells Vi she has to always prioritize. Given my own background it's the perspective that I always approach these stories from, and why I love to do really deep character analysis like this, but also why little contextual shifts can totally shift something touching to be antithetical to what it represents. Additionally, because this dynamic involves a very specific traumatic feedback loop that a LOT of my favourite stories use, it's one where I'm always looking for those outside elements that slip by being considered like Maddie's character – because the stories about this that I like most... basically always have conclusions that are messy because they follow through on things like that, so it's the rushed writing that really irks me here.

It's not that stories like this can't have happy endings – they can, but it's very often a lot more complicated to get there in a way that doesn't hamstring its own core message and might not be exactly what you'd expect from a happy ending. (An immediate example that I'd give is an early 2000s sci-fi time travel film called Returner by the director who recently did Godzilla Minus One. While both films have a focus on the risk of lacking information, and the far-reach of those consequences, and the potential trauma that comes from decisions and how they're made, Returner goes about addressing the complexity of tiny choices & those impacts that has permanently stuck with me when looking at what to expect from writing that's tackling those issues).

As before – I do REALLY like this show despite being strongly critical of its weaknesses.


Fantastic season all around. Can only be described as...

View attachment 17334

Looking forward to more, and speaking of which, Riot Games and Fortiche are / have been working on a follow up show to Arcane.


I am quite curious whether or not we'll get something that has any sort of established mentions to the things that happened here or if it'll just be another part of somewhere that's the same world, especially since they mention that there's a lot of room for things that're tonally different from how heavy/dark Arcane was.

Hopefully they don't feel the need to push too far the other way, as I think that having some more sombre things to ground this series actually helped to make the whimsical stuff like Heimerdinger feel more elevated in juxtaposition without undercutting him from being an adorable little goofball at times as he'd often have his little goat-dog to sort of punctuate that kind of feel, and I'd be into a series that had a lighter tone, but was still grounded in the same way as this series was early in the first episode.



X :neo:
 

InterfaceLeader

Pro Adventurer
I haven't finished season 2 yet, but I gotta say X-Soldier, you really have a gift for explaining why things land a certain way.


The animation is gorgeous, so many of the mini-stories and scene by scene set-pieces are brilliant. But everything in S2 feels so rushed, and I have genuinely just missed huge pieces of character and plot because they happened in a montage or blink of an eye and I couldn't separate what was vibes from what was key information. Maddie and Loris both feel like footnotes. I'm completely lost on what Jayce's motivation is. My primary emotion is confusion, whereas Season 1 was a near perfect piece of storytelling.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Thanks!

It's nice to know since I haven't been doing this sort of thing as much lately, and I'm just getting back into it again. :D

My approach is bolstered by what I do for a living, as it involves a lot of that sort of analytical dissection in thinking through perspectives from different personas about software, media, etc. and especially understanding how/why something might not end up being picked up the way that it's intended by a particular audience. (For things like sensory disabilities, that's a lot of understanding things like what makes up non-text information, and how to convey that to a user that's going to be different on a case-by-case basis).

I wanted to mention that as there's a particular moment in Season 2 that I only recently noticed when rewatching some people checking out the show with subtitles on. There's a very specific moment where something bothered me because of that type of necessity not landing properly, and that's context on something that I actually have to look at from a professional perspective that gets into a bit more of the lens in how I re-analyze things when trying to articulate my thoughts on them.

So at the end of Season 2 episode 4, Vander comes to his senses when he recognizes Jinx, and the episode cliffhangers its end of him saying, "Powder...?" that absolutely just hits like a TRUCK emotionally.

The issue here is that the subtitles provide the character name from League of Legends: Warwick as the speaker for that line. What this means is that if you're deaf – the vocal match to that DEFINITELY being Vander's voice is completely lost, and even if you just have subtitles on and you're not good with vocal recognition it heavily obfuscates that end-of-episode emotional reveal. You're left thinking it's a new character that probably knows her from somewhere else during the timeskip or something, and you're likely to get a backstory on them.

This is why making subtitles & captions isn't as easy as just transferring the script into a data file with correct timing. A lot of things like whether or not you include the name of the speaker is predicated upon whether or not that person has been introduced formally in the story yet, as well as weighing that against things like whether they're speaking from off-screen, if they're in a back & forth conversation where you have to differentiate them, etc. There is no definitive answer to what always works, because subtleties of the non-text information within the visual medium itself change how that's most effective to translate for the audience, as sometimes you have to concede on certain mismatches in information disclosure in order to be able to ensure that it's the closest match that doesn't lose cause a more important mismatch that other options would take.

This is the same reason why there is no such thing as a perfect translation – and why localizations do things differently that match gaps in cultural awareness where certain disclosures are automatic to one audience and unknown to another in a way that's confusing. (An outdated example is why "riceballs" are called "jelly doughnuts" in a lot of early anime dubs, because it's not attempting to tell you exactly what's being eaten as that's not as important as knowing that they're grabbing a light, handheld snack that would be normal for a kid to eat. That sort of thing shifts as globalization means that there's better cultural awareness of things like that). This can be anything from a change in tone, formality, accent, etc. that all get conveyed in ways that plain text has to be able to effectively supplement.

A lot of the time, it means that someone from the design/writing team NEEDS to review things like this, because there's a particular reason that they chose to have withhold particular details of the information conveyance which parts to reveal. Given that right at the start of S2E5 Jinx shows up in goth-Vi's bathroom and tells her that she found Vander while Vi's attempting to choke her out... that now means that the "Warwick" name for the speaker doesn't connect to this detail either, despite TECHNICALLY still being accurate to who the speaker actually is.

I could suggest a number of different ways to fix something like that (not having a speaker's name at all, since his face is on screen and his mouth is shown speaking, thus it's redundant, or including Vander's name instead), and whichever option is likely going to have some impact on how that scene would be described when making the script for the audio descriptions which are intended for someone who still watches shows but is visually impaired. I'd expect that those'd've likely had to give Warwick a name unless they just describe him arbitrarily as a monster – both of which work, but provide a similar gap. (I haven't watched Arcane with audio transcriptions, but I know that ALL of Netflix's original shows have had Audio transcriptions as a part of them ever since Daredevil back in 2015 made that a big deal so that blind people could watch a show about their superhero along with everyone else).

That's why my job is largely identifying gaps like this in something during development, and then hunting whoever the most effective owner is over where that change makes the most sense to be made, and presenting what the gap & possible options are on ways to present that, as well as why following a simple model directly doesn't match to the delivery, and how to better catch things like that proactively early on in the process. Hence why, despite being rather tl;dr, I am glad to know that my articulation of things still lands well for a similar type of explanation of things landing differently than they were intended because of what are usually very small secondary details that can make a significant change.


Your statement of, "My primary emotion is confusion" is SO relatable to how I felt watching Season 2 as it was getting into the final episodes before I finished it as well, but especially because Season 1 didn't feel like that AT ALL during any point of the story. It's why I'm glad that I missed this show when it initially came out, and binged through it for the first time all in one go because I didn't have any gap in experiencing how Season 1 delivered the information differently from Season 2.

That confusion being born of the delivery failing to differentiate what's key information & what're just vibes I think is really what's at the core of that "rushed" feeling more than anything else. It's also why I think that rewatching the show genuinely helps a bit in that regard, as you know where to look for some of those things more carefully – because you're looking for information that you're missing.

Even though some of the time that information is something that was technically there, you're missing it because it doesn't have the same weight that's placed upon information conveyance for key information the way that Season 1 established its storytelling, which is a shortcoming of the Season 2 storytelling rushing through details that it would have taken time for in Season 1. While re-watching the fights that feel like an AMV vibe is still fun, you have to appreciate them differently than you would if you're watching them for choreographed storytelling.

It's like expecting a savory taste & getting something sweet – it tastes bad until you can recalibrate for what it is. Your brain does a LOT of contextual prep for things before you encounter it, which is why consistency in storytelling patterns matter, and there are rules to cinematography about things like not crossing the line, and other editing techniques that change how easy it is to follow a story, and even those will vary somewhat based on the director or other things. MOST of the shortcomings of Season 2 are that, and so there's still a way to get those bits and enjoy them afterwards in a slightly different way from Season 1.

There are just a few things that fall outside of that scope into where that rush in writing creates a gap that's an issue that doesn't get resolved through that sort of "flavor" recontextualization on rewatch, which is what my last post is mainly focused on. It's why one of the things that I didn't re-mention is what you mentioned about Jayce's motivation:

the "Childhood's End" ascension thing with Viktor that ties into Jayce's core motivations for opposing it. While they do have a meaningful dialogue about what represents progress, and that Viktor ends up needing Jayce to recognize that his perfection isn't progress, it's a bit of a bothersome oversimplification, and removes the idea that he initially just ascended anyone who WANTED that. While that is a shortcoming, I do think that the other element that wasn't as well delivered is that it's not clear how much agency Viktor has over stopping himself or someone like Ambessa from using him as a tool that doesn't have the proper safeguards in the same way that Hextech was. While I do have some annoyances about a number of nuances to that conversation, the key difference between this and something like the Prison Cell scene is that, if you manage to bolster the shortcomings in Jayce's & Viktor's conversation to land better or cover something from a slightly more nuanced perspective... the end result of the conversation still pans out the same any way you slice it.

So, while that bit always makes my eyes roll a bit just because there are really important details that it's slightly mischaracterizing or oversimplifying when it comes to that type of REALLY deep existential confrontation, it's something that doesn't ultimately change the underlying parts of that scene or narrative to be lesser. It's hitting the right message by stumbling its way through rather than walking there, so my annoyances with that are more that it feels like a missed opportunity to have that more interesting perspective, but that's not something that the story itself ever promised, but more of something I was hoping it would deliver on by tacking that question.



X :neo:
 

InterfaceLeader

Pro Adventurer
I have JUST THIS MINUTE finished watching it.

And yes, I think I will need to rewatch it at some point because

Ending spoilers (and rambling thoughts)

The ending does recontextualise what was going on with Viktor and Jayce, and, I guess, tries to spell out the core themes of the show?
I agree with you that it came off a bit clunky. To me, there was a 'I'm 17 and this is deep' feeling to the dialogue between them. And I had a bit of reactionary, sure tell the disabled guy that the chronic pain is what made him anti-Jayce moment.

I think with Viktor, I missed the place where he went from 'healing' people to 'unifying' them/creating the hive-mind. Particularly as Vander's healing seemed dependent on teasing out his individuality? But then Viktor changes his mind and Vander remains a monster, albeit one controlled by the hive mind.

(I still do not understand how Black Rose fits in)

There is a huge disconnect between the different storylines. There are just straight up too many characters for ~9 hours of story, and a lot of the time they feel incidental to each other.

I forgive the show a lot because the visuals are so spectacular. Every single frame is a work of art.


I really appreciate your long form posts, thanks for the effort in writing them out. It helps me get to grips with WHAT I'm missing.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Ah, it's really nice to see your thoughts on that follow-up, and so hopefully I can give some general perspective on what I've managed to pick up on so far, and some more examples of where I think that the gaps exist which make this difficult to pick up on and feel confusing rather than having the same sense of what Season 1 had.

Framing it as the 'I'm 17 and this is deep' really hits the nail on the head, because there's so much to the perspective of emotion being necessary but also messy that's at the of the underlying narrative that SEEMS like it'd play into that, but it really doesn't have the moments to reconcile the perspectives that they arrive at to make it meaningfully follow through on that.

Viktor's journey & Jayce's have always had parallels over their struggles with helplessness & hopelessness while being JUST short of being able to make a lasting difference really shown off in Season 1 with the, "Am I interrupting?" scenes of them contemplating suicide and standing on a ledge after a mistake in their efforts winds up with terrible consequences. Viktor making Jayce promise to destroy the Hexcore and instead Jayce using it to save Viktor's life ends up being something that causes them to necessarily part ways, because it's something that represents a betrayal of that trust because Jayce was acting out of an emotional reaction to what happened during the attack & seeing his best friend getting severely injured after already being exceptionally concerned about Viktor's mortality.

Initially the integration that he has with everyone down in the undercity where he's healing the shimmer addicts is interlinking their minds to his as he is using himself to heal them. It's how he's able to talk through them occasionally. Reveck mentions that each healing takes things out of Viktor and that his capacity isn't limitless, and what he's doing with Warwick to try and get Vander's mind back is deeply more complex than what he's had to do with the others, and will take a toll on him directly, as that's meant to show a vastly more difficult version of how he's repairing all of the others and why they look to him as a savoiur.

So at this point in having a collective who all share some link through their messianic figure, they operate more like a pacifist cult, which is disconcerting but there's nothing inherently bad going on there. There is some loose sense of this from the way that Skye exists alongside him in his mind, but there's not nearly enough time or context spent on this to really understand the nature of their relationship & what happened to him the way that you'd expect to have a whole episode focused on the scientist figuring out the science of his own condition. Viktor is calm and thoughtful about what he's doing because he's now living his life in a way that's attempting to be purposeful given that he's no longer what he was due to a decision that went against his wishes and was made outside of his control.

Meanwhile, Jayce ends up in a possible future, which is already undercut because we get to see that Ekko & Heimerdinger ended up in another alternate timeline where Hextech seemingly didn't lead to that outcome. If he got tossed into a certain future that'd be more impactful, especially given that Heimerdinger was disconnected from following up on the danger of the Mages given that his role as the older individual who experienced that is completely cast aside to have him seemingly vanish into nothingness for an unspecified beyond-last-second adjustment, which is another one of those oddly rushed writing things that really feels like it's because the elements of the story that he should be connected to happen completely absent of his presence in a way that cuts out how the THREE of them were necessary to remain balanced between considerations of the balance of progress against the stagnation that comes from moving too slowly to bring healing to those who need it most – which is what Heimerdinger's journey with Ekko into the undercity in Season 1 really emphasized.

On top of that, Jayce's fall lands him with a broken leg & forced to deal with this situation of being injured & stranded in a post-apocalyptic wasteland. While the injury itself is an echo of Viktor's leg, the circumstances under which he experiences it flatly aren't ones where he's able to get a sense of what's going on rationally. He's operating on survival impulses which are all of the lower brain functions with the amygdala that are building emotionally-charged, highly biased survival responses – that's where trauma comes from. Making him into an anti-hero vessel to try to undo his emotional decision of using the hexcore to save Viktor to then have him reverse that decision out of an emotional decision – again without allowing Viktor to have any agency is the underlying issue. It's why it leads to all of the trauma with Isha, Vander/Warwick, and all of the people he healed with the terrifying screaming as the healed parts of them get cognitively ripped away, seen even more vividly in Warwick as those things all melt out of his body in fountaining streams of molten tears/blood.

It's only at THIS point that Viktor has to rely on the now nearly dead Warwick's body to give himself the fuel that he needs in order to sustain himself, and where he loses his emotional connection and his link to his humanity in exchange for survival and ascension to overcome nature, with him telling Skye that he'll miss their conversations to which she replies that he won't – because he's losing the emotion that will experience that. (Again, NONE of this is adequately set up in the story and it's obtuse until you really try to dig at figuring out why things are happening).

Even at THAT point, Viktor still explicitly says that he'll ascend everyone who is willing. It's the agency of choice, and being able to choose freedom from emotional trauma is something that isn't necessarily a point of moral judgement. It's at that point that they're TRULY a hive mind of interconnected experiences & memories, and where they all end up serving an emotionless imperative to convert everyone else and overcome nature itself, hence Ambessa weaponizing it as a tool that she can control with absolute certainty again the Black Rose – who just... are SO underdeveloped that it's just a complete and total mess of attempting to raise the stakes WAY too quickly. This is what brings everything to the, "If everything is perfect no one does anything. Emotions are necessary despite the suffering they bring." conversation between them that just feels monumentally reductive on top of being tonally dischordant to Jinx's journey given that she's literally attempting to kill herself multiple times by jumping off a ledge like both of them did because of the unhealed trauma & consequences of the emotional damage of what she went through.

The other issue here are that this hive-mind concept was most significantly brought about by Childhood's End, (FFVII, StarCraft, and countless other things directly cite it as the influence of those things, so its influence carries through a lot of different avenues that may not know the initial source – especially given the very Protoss-like appearance of Viktor after his ascension those bits of thematic DNA feel especially significant). It really mangles the delivery of the idea that this ascension into something else just... happens as a part of advancement, and it generates fear and aversion BECAUSE it's so different and it operates in a modality that normal people can't experience, and it's destined to leave the previous form of humanity behind for something that's unrecognizable to the older generations (i.e. the same fundamental fear & prejudice that the Mutants in X-Men face).

This basically takes that framework, removes all of Viktor's agency multiple times through Jayce's emotional actions driven out of concern for the well-being of those he wants to help, and then because it ultimately characterizes Viktor as a threat, it ends up justifying Jayce's villainous actions through the ham-fisted preachy bit that overlooks the history of human Viktor's physical struggles that had defined his life outside of his control by making it so that Viktor the one who was just stopping himself through Jayce to prevent himself from becoming a danger to everyone as he even regards himself as a threat – rather than seeing that there is a facet of progress that the world might not willingly accept ESPECIALLY at an accelerated pace without the necessary safeguards.

The pacing is why that all feels oversimplified, because what the story needs is moments to understand that while Jayce is still on a heroic path the entire time, his trauma & the execution of that will mean that he's NOT the hero in certain circumstances and he has to commit to that IF he's certain that the ends justify the means – a decision that you cannot rationally make when you're driven by emotional guilt, trauma, & bias without a LOT of time to be forced to hold onto that choice through things that want to dissuade you or test that resolve in complex ways, because even when you're in the role of trying to be a big picture saviour – you're going to be a villain at a different scale, which is especially difficult when you force others to experience the same trauma you went through.

This is the sort of thing where Jayce having to actually face Vi & Jinx after his actions made them lose their father ALL OVER AGAIN... AND it made Jinx lose herself all over again with Isha's death are exceedingly paramount parts of that story that either don't happen, or happen completely between episodes. That SHOULD have been the connective tissue between those storylines. Jinx losing Isha how she does is a VERY specific trigger because Isha not only models herself after her big sister, but she's blown up after her dad turns into a monster to protect them, and she does it by stealing and cramming 3 Hexgems into a weapon and using it to do what she thought was right & what her adoptive parental-sibling does all the time, and it got her & everyone else killed and left Jinx with nothing because she had to watch all the parts of Powder that she'd re-nurtured die all over again to the EXACT same cycle.

This is where there's one element where I've gotten a bit more forgiving about Isha's portrayal. One of the things about animation and the "anime look" is that animated characters rely on "baby schema" which is that they have particularly exaggerated proportions in their eye size, face shape, etc. because it's a mammalian trait that makes us inclined to be protective or nurturing towards something. It's why mammals raise young that's not their own, and (on top of other olfactory cues), it's why they instinctively know how to act differently around babies, as well as why we naturally think baby animals are cute. It's more lower-brain automatic survival pattern subconscious function, and it's why Disney princess & animate characters have a look that makes you emotionally inclined to feel protective & emotionally attached to them more easily.

Because Jinx IS still Powder is broken little fragments, she has to carry a lot of that same look even when she's older, whereas Vi's older self looks a LOT different comparatively speaking. That's because there has to be an audience impulse to still want to protect Jinx despite her trauma & struggles, which means the animation will parallel her younger self visually. This means that it's more complicated when Jinx has to become the older sibling/psuedo-parental guardian over another kid that's like she was, because you then have to maintain that dynamic which means that Isha's child-like qualities end up being REALLY amplified. Even lanky little Powder crossing the bridge with Vi when their parents die never looks as little as Isha. We know Powder isn't tough enough to get into fights, but Isha's constantly getting into brawls & diving in to shield Jinx again Vi and doing the sort of overly precocious things that happen in children who don't have a guardian, because they're developing on their brain's own survival instincts rather than relying on having a safe environment for cognitive development. That's how & why they often become overly co-dependent when they DO find someone who will protect them and they mirror & protect them exceptionally strongly regardless of whether that attachment is protective or toxic (the same way that Jinx & Silco's relationship was deeply complicated).

While this makes things feel discordant with Isha being visually WAY too young for the realism and ways in which the story established things with Vi & Powder as kids in the undercity, it's an animation choice that doesn't really work for Jinx's story without her looking that way, because anything else will make it so that Isha's precocious traits from being wholly abandoned, like when she's trying to "be" Jinx and show up to things will start to elevate her into the elder sibling role instead of Jinx which isn't the purpose of the characterization of that relationship. It's a mirror that helps to show that Silco's trauma from his fractured relationship with Vander made it so that he was like a vulnerable younger sibling when he & Jinx were alone, which is why he always needed her to give him his medication and couldn't do it himself. That vulnerability is why he couldn't give her up and would have let the whole world burn to keep her alive. That particular dysfunctional coping mechanism is what's REALLY important for Jinx to see when she's experiencing Isha's death – because she's also watching herself shoot her own father figure who loves her which is the OTHER WAY SHE LOST HER FAMILY.

That's why she shatters into apathy & total helplessness, turns herself into Vi, and is sitting in her cell with her hair unbraided, because she's completely and utterly unraveled. The problem is that rather than getting to see how this impacts Jayce – since the Hexstone explosion from his research is LITERALLY what started this whole mess. We never get any moment to see him have to grapple with the ways in which that echo is repeating or how that's pushing her into blowing herself up or jumping off of a ledge to her death like he & Viktor both saved each other from. That all violates the key storytelling rule of, "Show, don't tell." when that reveal just just delivered as a single line of dialogue from Caitlyn to Vi about where her sister is.

And not-so-surprisingly, this all sort of leads things back into Jinx in the jailcell being glossed over with a quick bait-and-switch to locking up Vi so that her & Caitlyn can get all steamy before any of the meaningful things about what happened ACTUALLY get addressed. There's not enough time to build up to what's happening there to be a healing moment, because we don't get to understand the weight of the impact that this has on Vi by seeing things that are like having Powder & Vander back – only to lose both of them again to the same thing and then end up in a jail cell.

Vi went through those traumatic things too, but Vi ha's had Caitlyn working on her side THIS WHOLE TIME even allowing the both of them to covertly team up against Ambessa, so the impact of that lingering doesn't need to be on the popular lesbian ship so quickly, but rather it needs to be taking time to unpack that emotional cycle of repetition, because it's important to recognize that all of these cyclical pairs of Ambessa & Mel, Jayce & Viktor, Vi & Powder, all have an interwoven relationship where the trauma one of them experiences is re-triggering those events for others, and building this into a cycle that just keeps repeating even as it keeps amplifying over & over again, and where breaking that cycle is critically important – which is where a love scene FINALLY breaking the self-guarded Vi's outer shell would really work... but where another key element is critically important.

That's where the value of Heimerdinger & Ekko comes in. They're impacted by this same cycle, but they're in different places. They're responsible for larger communities, and figureheads of those places. They're doing good from different directions, and their exposures to one anothers' lives fundamentally shifts their core purpose as well as how they're able to think about what they do. Heimerdinger spends almost 3 years LIVING IN THE UNDERCITY before Ekko shows up in that timeline. He's learning about the best of what things are while also showing his core weakness is that he'll be content to be somewhere and let time pass because he has time to spare. Because that's a single episode just sort of slotted in like Jayce's Arcane Apocalypse or the Black Rose, we don't get the necessary juxtaposition of the sense of urgency that Ekko has to consider for the death of the tree in his community back in their world that drives him back there in mere DAYS, and which would create the framework for Heimerdinger making a sacrifice to save Ekko feel meaningful rather than oddly just writing him out.

This also loops back around to the fact that from the moment that Viktor meets Reveck, he can see Reveck's dead daughter. He KNOWS what he's trying to save, and the lengths he's willing to go to in order to ensure that Viktor can fulfil his purpose because it'll bring his daughter back. It's the same reason that Silco would've given up Zaun to keep Jinx free and recontextualizes the two of them working together on Shimmer in the undercity, it's the same sense of loss & hopelessness that is emblematic of Jinx's trauma of losing Vander when Viktor's core is blown away by Jayce – because not even Viktor would sacrifice Vander to save himself, and was pushing himself past his limits because Vander was worth saving... and Vander felt that way about his daughters because it's what kept Warwick alive and gave Reveck real hope that he could actually bring her back – WHICH ULTIMATELY DOES HAPPEN because we see Orianna standing in her room at the end.

That's what would FINALLY give enough of the context to Ambessa & the Black Rose being a parent going above & beyond way too far for their child at the expense of what their child actually wants, because that drive ends up being more of a self-defining vendetta against the world that becomes their core purpose where it's no longer about their child but it's about them feeling that they were able to save their child in a way that they'd failed to do – Ambessa's son being murdered by the Black Rose because they thought that he was the child that she'd taken from them. Hence why Mel is still sympathetic towards her mother in the end despite all of the manipulation & destruction that she caused, which doesn't really have the necessary weight nor does it define what the threat is well enough for that to be clear, let along for Mel's CONSTANT subconscious emotional influence over everyone else's lives because of not knowing about her powers within her position in politics have time to be unpacked in just how deeply she ended up creating the circumstances that everyone experiences – hence the reason why Heimerdinger & everyone founded the city of Piltover in the first place.

It also adds in a layer of context & complexity around how her & Jayce are having sex in a scene where the visuals are being interwoven to Viktor's blood fusing into the Hexcore. There's a massive weight of that core conflict of Mel's history that fundamentally shapes the lives of everyone in the entire series, and it's why her & Ambessa's conflict as the escalation of the warmongering of the mages from other lands is of paramount importance to looking at things like the juxtaposition of the sovereignty of Zaun being countered with Ambessa puppeting Caitlyn in order to enforce Martial Law and place everyone under a system that she can control. She's used to working against something that can manipulate those things and win on TOP of having overwhelmingly powerful magical capabilities that will snatch you out of a room with astral thorns if your anti-magic defenses aren't up. She's paranoid out of necessity.

This once again reflects back into how she puppets people into positions where she can use their own motivations to achieve her own ends in a calculated & controlled way for her own safety that disregards everyone else as pawns that REALLY heavily pits that juxtaposition against the brand-new, bright-eyed, naive cadette Maddie as the perfect target for her to influence from both directions. She tells the story about seeing Caitlyn fighting to get Vi the rights to join the enforces & threatening to pull her family's funding, and that influence becomes the catalyst that actually gets Vi to join them. She sees Ambessa taking charge in the aftermath and putting Caitlyn in charge and again is still starstruck by that whole scenario, and gets nudged into a place where she's Caitlyn's trusted intimate partner, but the closer she gets to Caitlyn as this person she admires, the farther away Caitlyn grows towards her to the point that she won't give up that power that Ambessa recommended her for when it starts changing her as a person – and Maddie isn't able to get that to change, because she was explicitly manipulated into that role by Ambessa because she's the person with the LEAST amount of ability to reinforce her emotional influence over Caitlyn, since that is explicitly what Ambessa is creating systems to avoid.

That's why Maddie's line to Caitlyn is a reflection of that type of discarding and dehumanization that she's been slowly put through for months at the hands of the two people who she looked up to more than anyone else given her introductory dialogue. That's the kind of manipulation that echoes Mel's own weakness which is why Ambessa sent her away, and she intentionally disassociated herself from her family, because she KNOWS how dangerous her mother is to anyone where showing mercy will earn the exact opposite, because Mell watched her mom murder a child in front of her, which is where the whole conflict with the Black Rose emerged from in the first place. Maddie shooting at Caitlyn by Ambessa's order driven by both military obligation as well as out of a sense of justified betrayal by the person who she treasured most, and MEL'S magic being the thing that kills her for it is just gut-wrenchingly awful, because it's a reflection of Mel's trauma being intertwined with Caitlyn, given that she's Jayce's childhood friend who he always tried to go out of his way for.

I expect that there's a similar type of arc that's at play with Loris & Vi given that they have a reflection of that relationship, explicitly during the self-harm phase of Vi falling into her darkness both literally & metaphorically with fighting, drinking, and amplifying all of the self-protective & hard outer shell elements of her relationship that have constantly created issues in her life, while Loris is always shown just watching from the background and being around to try and help her despite herself. Given that we meet him in the gutter surrounded by bottles, it's very clear that he recognizes that path as one that's utlimately going to put her in a bad place, but she's rejecting that in the same way that Caitlyn is breaking that connection with Maddie. It's more of the cyclical traumatic influences being interconnected to one another with those two new key characters who we don't get enough time to get to know fully.

That's what puts Vi into such a particular place when Jinx shows up as the icon of the Undercity that Vi was supposed to have been that puts her into a different role, where the whole reason Jinx is there is because Vander's her dad, too. The other thing that this glosses over is that this moment in the story is addressing that there's a vacuum in Vi's life that's stemming from a mirror to something that we've seen before – Jinx & Silco. There's a big & messy layer of complexity in those types of relationships when someone's at a point in their life where they're broken and there's someone who's looking out for them, and that sort of thing is why I referred to the "goth bi Vi" phase as such, because there's that thing where she needs a source of stability, but she's constantly running away from it no matter how well it's caring for her because that trauma of losing Vander isn't healed and she felt that it was on her for not being strong enough. Vander wouldn't have had to step in if she could beat that Shimmered-up bully on her own – especially since she let him walk away when he threatened her with a knife in the very first episode.

Vi's still dealing with that trauma, and so when she's in the midst of a self-destructive spiral, Loris is watching out for her, because it's established at the same time Maddie's character is that he's watching more closely than he lets on, and he's also intimately familiar with this particular type of self-destructive behaviour from his own experience. However, that kindness & love is just going to reinforce her own feelings of helplessness which is what's fueling her impulse to fight and push away, which is why it's imperative that Jinx is the one extending the olive branch to mend that broken bond by reuniting with the person that they both lost in a way that's at the foundation of how they had originally repaired the trauma of both of their parents dying on the bridge up from the Undercity that fundamentally defines the existential conflict that they're battling against.

Vi not being the emblem of the Undercity while Jinx is holds specific weight in the context of her meaning to be the thing that reformed the bond between Piltover & the Undercity by bringing Jinx in – which is initially when Jinx was attempting to coordinate a situation where Vi killed her, but Isha intervened and so at the last second, nothing went the way that she planned (again, Jinx's core trauma), and where she lashes out at Caitlyn over acting like Jinx for trying to kill Jinx when a kid could've gotten hurt – exactly what Vi was doing when her & Jayce raided the Shimmer facility and a kid got killed which lead to the terrorist attack in the first episode of Season 2. There are all of those intermingled complexities of Vi & Caitlyn's relationship that specifically breaks apart & rejoins with the other members of that unit in order to try and recover from them – but we don't see enough of those to be able to understand the context of those people as individuals who are just as much a core part of the story as the Season 1 characters are.

That's why those two specifically are points where the weakness of their portrayal is the easiest way to pinpoint where the writing is weak, because they most visibly lose out important development and come across as 1 dimensional background NPCs or pawns rather than being genuine people whose role in the story is an important part of the overall tapestry that gets truncated and cut short in other ways that's a bit easier to detail in poking around at the parts of the story that we don't see, but that given the way Season 1 was written it's almost CERTAIN that those are details that existed because they're still a part of the framework to the underlying character motivations & cyclical trauma, but the way in which those things get portrayed at a breakneck pace that doesn't take more care in emphasizing what parts of that are vibes vs. what parts of the story are key information ends up making all of that difficult to discern without revisiting and doing all of the reading between the lines for the story, because it's not doing it on its own any more.

It's the moments where things get emotionally mischaracterized that bother me the most (Maddie & Loris being the most apparent), but there are nuances to everyone's relationships, the struggles that they face, and how they change that makes it feel like some of those things end up in a weird place where there's a delivery that doesn't always match the emotion of what that story looks like from multiple directions, which is what I love the most about the first season.

There are details that I really miss like Jayce & Caitlyn as childhood friends since her family sponsored him, and they have such an interesting sibling-but-not-sibling relationship, which makes the fact that Vi is intertwined with the person whose house she robbed that started all of those hardships, but also catapulted both of them into their positions exceptionally interesting as a dynamic. Jayce & Viktor have a really heartfelt & loving friendship, and even while Mel can't help but have magic that's interconnected to her emotions in ways that impact both of them, she's always been understanding of that love in a way that doesn't overlap with their own romantic entanglements, and which the kaleidoscopic interconnection between them and the Hexcore doesn't really get enough moments for those elements to reevaluate each other as more & more things change with the three of them. Those same things apply to Ekko, Powder/Jinx, & Heimerdinger in being different sides of the old & new where they're drawn together to be happily together and to make a comfy home out of the tough times that they face despite all seeingly coming from walks of life that have absolutely nothing in common with one another.

They're all so interesting when they have more time to explore what those dynamics are, but that's only possible at certain points in the story & why it's important to take TIME with characters when they're in the thick of it to make sure that you're intentionally reinforcing all of those threads, which the single-character-focused episodic tangents in Season 2 can't really do, because they're either moving past developments that don't give things time to breathe or not focusing on the significance of the passage of time to change the status quo just because things are going to loop back into a familiar pattern. Just because Vi & Caitlyn are going to get back, or Jayce & Viktor are going to be reunited after Viktor leaves, or any of those other things isn't a reason to rush into those moments, because it loses on the understanding that you get from living through the LASTING IMPACT of those things, rather than just the shock of the event.

Everyone is well-interconnected, but those relationships are overly distilled in Season 2, and rather than making things more clear, everything ends up being more diluted for it – so hopping out of the spoilers now to cover that.



That's a good chunk of the core of the interconnected elements of where those stories SHOULD be VERY intertwined with the way that all of the story details are set up. It's not really that there're too many characters, but just that Season 2 REALLY needed to be two separate seasons to give all of the story enough TIME for those things to happen, and for us to experience moments that get montaged or off-screened, as a lot of those needed hold a huge enough of emotional weight in order for the other elements of the story to be able to reinforce those underlying links. The disparate storylines all have a connected thread IN THEORY that doesn't work out in execution, because we just don't get the moments that we need to for that.

Insofar as why that is – I'd expect that practically managing all of that storytelling & also understanding what the limitations of the budget & operational deadlines to make a show like in a way that looks this damn gorgeous is a REALLY difficult thing to do. Any piece of media from movies to shows is always going to run into some practical complications, but animation especially has a LOT of moving parts, and it's hard to tell a story like this.

For context: Into The Spider-Verse was announced in 2015 and came out in 2018, Across the Spider-Verse came out in 2023, and Beyond the Spider-Verse isn't likely to be out any time in 2025. That's a LONG TIME to tell a three-part story that's got a runtime that's WAY smaller than Arcane, but uses the same animation style that Arcane turned up to 11. Not to mention the impacts that the writers strikes & bad conditions for animation workers also have an impact on those sequels' development that's likely also something that hit Arcane as well.

The fact that Arcane season 1 came out in 2021 & then season 2 was in 2024 gives a pretty good idea that if they split it into 3 seasons, it wouldn't be resolved until at LEAST 2027 which would be only 3 seasons in 6 years. For comparison, another really excellent Netflix animation series with solid character writing is Castlevania which had 4 seasons in 5 years: 2017, 2018, 2020, & 2021. The difference there is Arcane would be looking at 3 year gaps between all of its seasons, whereas Castlevania had a new season every year except for one, and then a spinoff series Castlevania Nocturne has its first two seasons September 2023 & January 2025.

That kind of commitment also means that any other animated projects, budgets, or other things that they have in mind (which they've already mentioned they're pursuing) are already tied up in other things, or needed to be freed up to explore other stories, because it's not just Arcane that takes a long time to cook. "Project L" was announced in 2019, officially became "2XKO" in 2021, and is only likely arriving in 2025, the whole larger scale projects that League of Legends has been pouring a ton of resources into take a shitton of time, and are pretty incredible.

That's still something where there is still an operational limitation to what the teams can do, and with things as they were in the general landscape of complications that were happening during the window of Season 2's development, I'd expect that it just ended up not being feasible for a number of reasons to expand things beyond where they were at, or that real life things ended up leaving a mark on that quality that's not something that any singular individual has the ability to overcome.


It's why despite the criticisms that I have – it's a show that falls JUST shy of being a masterpiece when most shows don't even make it anywhere close to that threshold (even if I really enjoy them).




X :neo:
 

InterfaceLeader

Pro Adventurer
It's why despite the criticisms that I have – it's a show that falls JUST shy of being a masterpiece when most shows don't even make it anywhere close to that threshold (even if I really enjoy them).

Oh yeah, I should say that I have SO much time for Arcane. It was ambitious, with every aspect, and I'll take something that tries to do something spectacular and different, but falls short over something blandly predictable any day.

Your post really helped me understand a lot more of the interconnectedness between the different plot lines and characters and what they were trying to achieve. I will go back and rewatch Arcane S1 (I'm sure part of my struggles were the big gap between the two seasons). It's such a shame they didn't get three seasons, I understand everything has to exist within certain commercial realities, but it would have given everything time to breathe.
 
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