Avengers/New Avengers (by Jonathan Hickman) [Marvel]

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
If you read Marvel at all, or have an interest in dojng so, you need to be reading this series. Not only is this possibly the best Marvel has been in my lifetime, but this storyline Hickman has been telling with these two books is the crux of everything happening in Marvel right now.

Literally, the company's entire line will be drawn into this story as it heads into "Secret Wars" next summer. Right now, Hickman is the architect of the Marvel Universe -- and possibly the architect of its end/rebirth if "Secret Wars" does what I suspect it's going to.

Long story made way too short, the multiverse is dying. Not just the 616 reality (the primary universe depicted by Marvel); all of them. For reasons that are still under speculation, the walls between universes have gotten too weak (my money is on this being the fault of all the heroes and villains who have performed time/dimensional travel over the years). Thus, the universes are colliding with each other at the focal point of the weak walls: Earth.

As the universes begin bleeding into one another and the other Earth becomes visible (a phenomenon dubbed "Incursions"), this gives the inhabitants of the two Earths eight hours to find a solution before the two Earths collide, explode and take their respective entire universes with them.

Infinity Gems can be used as a solution once, but then shatter. The only tried-and-true repeatable method is blowing up one of the Earths. This prevents the two Earths from occupying the same space, sparing one Earth and both universes.

As if this problem wasn't enough, various factions from throughout the multiverse are major players in what's going down, some utilizing the Incursions as a means of travel between universes to destroy alternate Earths, some seeking power, some just trying to survive, and some not sure where they fit into it all.

The Avengers have splintered. Only a few of their number knew of the Incursions at first (the Illuminati, as they're called), and they kept it a secret for as long as they could until the secret came out. These few wanted to keep the option of destroying alternate Earths on the table. When Captain America refused, they erased his memory of the Incursions. His memory came back. Someone made a hard choice. The world learned everything. A cabal of villains were given the reigns to decide Earth's fate. Some Avengers seek to apprehend the Illuminati. The Illuminati seek to stop the Incursions and avoid arrest. Some other Avengers decided they wanted nothing to do with either faction and are looking into their own solutions.

It's a clusterfuck and a half, but a beautiful one.

If you aren't reading it, you really need to. Come next summer, this story will be front and center across whatever Marvel books you are reading. "Avengers" #38 came out today along with "New Avengers" #26. I'd say you need to read all of "New Avengers" and at least all of "Avengers" from #34.1, but if you're willing to read the entirety of both series you should.
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
I am quite interested in this. I have a feeling the events of Spider-Verse probably are tied to this in some way as well. It was referenced in ASM #7 in any case.
 
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X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I read Avengers this week explicitly because Cyclops was involved, and because it's apparently about 8 months ahead of everything in the other series, chronologically speaking. I dig the trajectory that Scott's arc is moving along and where it looks like the mutants are gonna end up, but this is kinda where I break down.

Civil War was when I started rereading comics, and it put me pretty firmly on one side of the table, and then AvX got me back in to comics after I fell out around World War Hulk, which pretty much solidified me being nearly exclusively connected to the Mutants and their stories. I've built out to the cosmic folks like Captain Marvel & the Guardians of the Galaxy, but I just can't bring myself to a point about where I care enough to read about the Avengers, because I'm never on their side. It always seems like layers and layers of each little sect fucking each other over, and I don't have any particular character that I care enough about to keep me invested in what happens to them. (Which has stayed true through Original Sin & AXIS).

The overarching issue that they're approaching seems interesting and I'm curious what will come of it all, but it honestly wasn't until Cyclops showed up at the bottom of the character roster that I had even the most remote interest in what was happening.


So, tl;dr - Who in the entirety of any of the Avengers should I give a fuck about and why? Right now, I'm just content to wait for more X-Men involvement or until the thing with the All-New X-Men starts to shed some light on this from their end of things (especially since
Scott, Nation X, and their Phoenix Egg
have their own plans, apparently).




X :neo:
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Well, it's hard for me to tell you why you should care if you don't already. :monster: I mean, Captain Marvel and Beast are there, but you're probably looking for more than that.

It sounds like I have more of a history with Marvel than you, so I've known who all these guys are since I was a little kid, and it's significant seeing them faced with these unprecedented situations that challenge them in ways they have never been challenged before.

At the same time, I should point out that they haven't always been fighting amongst themselves to the extent we saw in "Civil War." That was the first time that happened to any significant extent, or maybe "Disassembled" the year before, when the Scarlet Witch went insane and got no less than four members of the team killed.

I should also mention that the X-Men's corner of the publishing line used to be mostly what I followed, and I still have more of their comics than of anything else, but I've closely followed Spidey, various X-teams, the Avengers and others at times -- even the Infinity Watch, when they were a thing. I think I started paying equal attention to the Avengers as I did the X-Men around the time of "Civil War," but I've never not paid attention to the X-Men.

I just haven't been loving what's been done with them since, oh ... 1999? =P

With how close-knit they once were, they're the team I would have described as "layers and layers of each little sect fucking each other over" in recent years. =P

Let's do a partial rundown: Bishop lost his fucking mind, injured Forge, nearly killed Xavier and butchered millions (perhaps billions) while trying to kill Cable and a baby; Gambit and Sunfire temporarily served Apocalypse; Mystique joined the team, then tried to kill her daughter and went full-on sociopath villain; Professor X was increasingly revealed to have been a dishonest, hypocritical asshole; Scott fucked things up with Jean; Scott fucked things up with Emma; Scott fell out with Logan, Bobby and Hank; Scott had a clandestine secret assassination team (Scott dropped the ball a lot in general, but Logan deserves some blame too); Hank fucked up the timeline even worse by yanking the original five X-Men from the past just to make a fucking point to Scott; Rahne pretended to have been impregnated by Rictor in an attempt to cure him of his gayness (actually bisexuality); Bobby held an irrational grudge against Scott for mudering Professor X while under the influence of the Dark Phoenix, even admitting that while he knows it wasn't Scott's fault, he still hates his guys; Warren went full-on evil and Psylocke had to kill him; Quicksilver became X-Factor's nemesis for a while; and that's not even nearly all of it.

Keep in mind that I'm not even counting what the Phoenix Five did since that was borderline mind control. :monster: Even without that, though, the X-Men have done nothing but constantly screw each other over for the past several years.

I'm not saying I don't like anything that's been done. There have been some good ideas and good stories. I love everything they've done with Magneto since having him join the X-Men, starting with the idea itself and the reason he did it.

As dysfunction goes, it's really hard to top the X-Men, though.

ANYWAY

The Illuminati (Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic, Beast, Hulk, Black Bolt, Dr. Strange, Black Panther and Namor) confronting the end of the world and having to ask themselves how far they would go to protect it has been an extremely poignant story. Seeing what these heroes do when put in a situation that leaves them with no choices they can ever be happy with has been thoroughly riveting, and a beautifully symbolic way to commemorate Marvel's 75 years.

I suppose you could just wait for the X-Men to get more directly involved, but I'd say youre missing out.

Oh, and don't judge anything by "Original Sin" or "AXIS." If OS was that odd oldest child who had a lot of potential if they could have just figured out what the hell they were doing, then "AXIS" is the middle child you always knew wouldn't amount to anything even as you were unsure what form their failure would take.

That leaves "Secret Wars" as the youngest, whom you've always had high hopes for, and to whom it falls to redeem the family name.
 
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Drax

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Benoist; Captain Highwind
I need to sit down with this in full, but I have read some issues here and there to get a bullet point of what's going on (Unlimited subscription willing, expect me to say this a lot)

But it does look like Marvel is heading toward a universe reset/New 52. I'll say I do like them approaching it this way, instead of like DC, always resetting their universe by letting Flash do all the work.

But I also wonder how the sales are doing for the other universes. Is Ultimate no longer viable for them? I agree with you Tres, in that Marvel really wants to shelve both the X-Men and FF until Marvel can wrestle the properties from Fox. I've noticed they have replaced an FF banner image on the login page with Avengers, for example.

Such a juggling act--I don't envy them. :monster:
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Ultimate hasn't been pulling its weight since the mid-2000s, to be perfectly honest. All that has kept it afloat is decent enough sales of Ultimate Spidey and good will toward Brian Michael Bendis, who writes it. At this point, there isn't even an Ultimate line, just a sandbox for Bendis to write about Miles Morales.

That being said, it is Marvel's most successful alternate universe, so they're not going to just destroy it outright. I think we can definitely expect to see at least a few survivors, such as Miles and perhaps his supporting cast. They may even be planning to merge the Ultimate Earth with the 616 Earth.

"Secret Wars" is going to be exciting. I doubt if Marvel will call it a reboot -- they'll probably say it's a "reshuffling" or "realignment" -- but we are definitely headed for something like "Crisis on Infinite Earths."
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Well, it's hard for me to tell you why you should care if you don't already. :monster: I mean, Captain Marvel and Beast are there, but you're probably looking for more than that.

Well, even Beast is just recently back on my list of people I'd like to keep an eye on after
tumblr_nfaygz9Cov1qfo4qoo1_500.jpg
:awesomonster:


It sounds like I have more of a history with Marvel than you, so I've known who all these guys are since I was a little kid, and it's significant seeing them faced with these unprecedented situations that challenge them in ways they have never been challenged before.

At the same time, I should point out that they haven't always been fighting amongst themselves to the extent we saw in "Civil War." That was the first time that happened to any significant extent, or maybe "Disassembled" the year before, when the Scarlet Witch went insane and got no less than four members of the team killed.

Yeah, you undoubtedly have a longer history with the Marvel-verse folks than I do.

I should also mention that the X-Men's corner of the publishing line used to be mostly what I followed, and I still have more of their comics than of anything else, but I've closely followed Spidey, various X-teams, the Avengers and others at times -- even the Infinity Watch, when they were a thing. I think I started paying equal attention to the Avengers as I did the X-Men around the time of "Civil War," but I've never not paid attention to the X-Men.

I just haven't been loving what's been done with them since, oh ... 1999? =P

Yeah, that makes sense. :monster:

For me, Civil War was reassociating myself with the Marvel Universe at large, and my intro to the Illuminati was them tossing Hulk into space, so I was rather disinterested in their shenanigans. I followed Hulk, and the completely devastated post-House of M X-Men. I'm still trying to catch up on the X-Men between WW Hulk & AvX (Schism and all that, though I've mostly caught up on Hope's story). But in the interim, there wasn't a great deal that pulled me towards the Avengers' storylines.

With how close-knit they once were, they're the team I would have described as "layers and layers of each little sect fucking each other over" in recent years. =P

Let's do a partial rundown: Bishop lost his fucking mind, injured Forge, nearly killed Xavier and butchered millions (perhaps billions) while trying to kill Cable and a baby; Gambit and Sunfire temporarily served Apocalypse; Mystique joined the team, then tried to kill her daughter and went full-on sociopath villain; Professor X was increasingly revealed to have been a dishonest, hypocritical asshole; Scott fucked things up with Jean; Scott fucked things up with Emma; Scott fell out with Logan, Bobby and Hank; Scott had a clandestine secret assassination team (Scott dropped the ball a lot in general, but Logan deserves some blame too); Hank fucked up the timeline even worse by yanking the original five X-Men from the past just to make a fucking point to Scott; Rahne pretended to have been impregnated by Rictor in an attempt to cure him of his gayness (actually bisexuality); Bobby held an irrational grudge against Scott for murdering Professor X while under the influence of the Dark Phoenix, even admitting that while he knows it wasn't Scott's fault, he still hates his guys; Warren went full-on evil and Psylocke had to kill him; Quicksilver became X-Factor's nemesis for a while; and that's not even nearly all of it.

Keep in mind that I'm not even counting what the Phoenix Five did since that was borderline mind control. :monster: Even without that, though, the X-Men have done nothing but constantly screw each other over for the past several years.

I'm not saying I don't like anything that's been done. There have been some good ideas and good stories. I love everything they've done with Magneto since having him join the X-Men, starting with the idea itself and the reason he did it.

As dysfunction goes, it's really hard to top the X-Men, though.

Oh yeah, the X-Men get at each other all the time, and I'm certainly character biased towards being engaged in their stories (Cyclops especially). In all honesty, the "X-Men" titled comic is easily the Mutant-related one that I stopped caring about earliest. I liked following the new kids a bit from "Wolverine & the X-Men" mostly because it served as a strong foil to Cyclops' side of the story with the Xavier school. Magneto's had some awesome development, but Storm's standalone series is one that I just absolutely can't care about because she's just so emotional and myopic all the time.

I guess that there isn't a character whose comics have ever drawn me into being on the side of the Avengers or even remotely interested in what they're doing at any point in time. Cyclops was my hook back in through AvX, and he's stayed one of the strongest anchors. Guardians was hooked by pure curiosity, and Captain Marvel was after she'd some in to a part of what happened with them. I tried getting into the new Hulk Comics with the start of the whole scenario that lead to, "Doc Green" but I fell out of touch with them. Even Thor was because I was curious about the little bit from Original Sin and all the press and whatnot surrounding it.

If I had a jumping off point with someone who feels worth following, I could probably get engaged with these comics, but as of current, I've not found anyone who draws me in to this series of events that makes me want to get into it all.

ANYWAY

The Illuminati (Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic, Beast, Hulk, Black Bolt, Dr. Strange, Black Panther and Namor) confronting the end of the world and having to ask themselves how far they would go to protect it has been an extremely poignant story. Seeing what these heroes do when put in a situation that leaves them with no choices they can ever be happy with has been thoroughly riveting, and a beautifully symbolic way to commemorate Marvel's 75 years.

I suppose you could just wait for the X-Men to get more directly involved, but I'd say youre missing out.

Oh, and don't judge anything by "Original Sin" or "AXIS." If OS was that odd oldest child who had a lot of potential if they could have just figured out what the hell they were doing, then "AXIS" is the middle child you always knew wouldn't amount to anything even as you were unsure what form their failure would take.

That leaves "Secret Wars" as the youngest, whom you've always had high hopes for, and to whom it falls to redeem the family name.

Oh, I'm not. Those are really apt descriptions of those events. They both just feel like team-ups for the purpose of team-ups, which is really annoying. It's also confusing as fuck doing these types of events with comic chronology all over the fucking map. (Especially true when trying to figure out where in Wolverine's story this was before he kicked it).

Ultimate hasn't been pulling its weight since the mid-2000s, to be perfectly honest. All that has kept it afloat is decent enough sales of Ultimate Spidey and good will toward Brian Michael Bendis, who writes it. At this point, there isn't even an Ultimate line, just a sandbox for Bendis to write about Miles Morales.

That being said, it is Marvel's most successful alternate universe, so they're not going to just destroy it outright. I think we can definitely expect to see at least a few survivors, such as Miles and perhaps his supporting cast. They may even be planning to merge the Ultimate Earth with the 616 Earth.

I think that the All-New X-Men falling into the Ultimate universe is pretty much setting up for a way to pull Miles & Co. into the main 616 fold. Hell, even the All-New Ultimates seem to be getting picked off as a team in general, so I've no idea what the potential for their lasting survivability is. (Also, the X-Men in the Ultimates universe are just weird).




X :neo:
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Probably best suited to this thread: (SHIT ABOUT AXIS #7 & SCARLET WITCH)

X :neo:

I personally don't care how much sense this makes in relation to Silver Age plot points. Nobody cares about Whizzer, I've read tons of Cap and Invaders comics, you won't see him acknowledged anywhere. We all know that this is done to make them Inhumans for the sake of brand synergy and I say screw that. Making everyone Inhumans deprives them of their identity and taking Quicksilver away from mutants and Magneto related daddy issues takes away from his. Just cause Wanda and her ill-defined powers, constant insanity plots and robotsexuality never worked doesn't mean Pietro and Luna should be dragged down with her.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
This is what I posted on ComicBookResources on Saturday:

----
At first, my reaction was one of extreme annoyance, even anger. I've always been a big fan of the Magnus family. Thankfully, I've been too busy over the past few days to rant and rave about this, so I've had time to think it over.

Perhaps they won't confirm that Magneto isn't their father after all. As others have suggested, perhaps he wasn't affected by Wanda's spell for any reason from Doom casting a protection spell to Wanda just messing with him.

May be that when the Inversion spell is reversed, Wanda herself isn't even sure how her spell worked, so the family sets out to confirm their ties and does learn that they are related -- but in the course of that investigation, they also learn that Wanda and Pietro aren't mutants.

Which, honestly, wouldn't bother me as much as them not being Magnus's kids. If they aren't mutants, yeah, it's going to be a little odd, but not necessarily nonsensical. Given all the wackiness of their history, and the connections to Chthon, the High Evolutionary, etc., you could easily make it work.
----
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
This is what I posted on ComicBookResources on Saturday:

----
At first, my reaction was one of extreme annoyance, even anger. I've always been a big fan of the Magnus family. Thankfully, I've been too busy over the past few days to rant and rave about this, so I've had time to think it over.

Perhaps they won't confirm that Magneto isn't their father after all. As others have suggested, perhaps he wasn't affected by Wanda's spell for any reason from Doom casting a protection spell to Wanda just messing with him.

May be that when the Inversion spell is reversed, Wanda herself isn't even sure how her spell worked, so the family sets out to confirm their ties and does learn that they are related -- but in the course of that investigation, they also learn that Wanda and Pietro aren't mutants.

Which, honestly, wouldn't bother me as much as them not being Magnus's kids. If they aren't mutants, yeah, it's going to be a little odd, but not necessarily nonsensical. Given all the wackiness of their history, and the connections to Chthon, the High Evolutionary, etc., you could easily make it work.
----

I could see that happening. They are certainly testing the waters to see what'll go down with the fandom best. this first angle they are trying seems doomed to me though. Sure, they have connections to all those characters. I can't imagine that there'll be a point in the future where Wanda and Pietro's connection to the High Evolutionary is gonna be consistently treated as more relevant as their connection to Magneto. Just not gonna happen. For all the fandom's complaints about the marginilation of mutants, Marvel'll have to start trying ten times as hard before Magneto is no longer an iconic Marvel character.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
If you guys still aren't reading "Avengers"/"New Avengers," you're missing out. Shit was awesome in this month's issues, and the
conflict between the various Avengers factions
has come to a head.

I also want to emphasize again how fucking lost you'll be come "Secret Wars" in May if you don't look into what's been going on in Hickman's story.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
"Avengers" #40. Jesus fucking wow.
T'Challa, the Black Panther
just became an epic douchebag. I don't even know what to think of him anymore. At the least, it can be said he is in a very dark place right now.

Not that
Namor (or the Cabal for that matter)
is actually dead. We know they're going to be in "Secret Wars" --
Thanos and Namor are both on the cover to "Secret Wars" #1.
Still, just the fact that he tried it in such a callous way and at such an inappropriate time -- wow. Dude has fallen a long way.
 

Super Mario

IT'S A ME!
AKA
Jesse McCree. I feel like a New Man
I'm not familiar with comics and association with titles but has anyone gotten a hold of Avengers: Rage of Ultron yet? I want to know more about that, cos it sounds so badass.
 

Super Mario

IT'S A ME!
AKA
Jesse McCree. I feel like a New Man
Awww hell yeah!!! :D I'm pleased!! the art looks tasty as fuck and the Ultron look is just fantastic!!
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Have to say again how much you guys need to be reading this. "New Avengers" #30 was a doozy. It really drove home how fucked the universe is.

Just go ahead and stick a fork in it -- 'cause it be done.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
If you read today's "New Avengers" #32, you know who they ain't. What with being dead. :monster:

Vision, Sam Wilson Captain America and Nova are the others in that pic.
 

Super Mario

IT'S A ME!
AKA
Jesse McCree. I feel like a New Man
Is that Tony in the suit or Rhodes? I thought Tony is still in Evil mode due to something going wrong in Axis?
 
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