Barret's Date With Cloud

[CameoAmalthea]

No, we're discussing whether it's possible to interpret them as repressed gays who are hot for each other without breaking canon.

Pairing Barret up with any member of the party has always repelled me, and I've just realized why: because I see him as the father figure to them all.

Yes, and discussing if the remake should handle the date differently because 'two men on a date' might not be an instant joke like it was in 1997.

I honestly feel the same way about Barret - but at the same time Tifa and Cloud also serve as parent figures to Marlene so I kind of get a family dynamic where Cloud, Barret, and Tifa are all the parents - at least in AC.

I'm really torn here because I like the joke date - it's funny - but I also like the equality in that it's not just girls could could show up. Obviously, Cloud's love interests are Aerith and Tifa so their dates are more serious, but I see Yuffie as having a crush on Cloud - she kisses him. Cloud doesn't feel the same way hence the "..."

With Barret and Cloud it's not really clear why he asked to hang out with him - but based on what gets you points it's liking Cloud in some way/Cloud liking him (the claiming Barret is his boyfriend). - The humor is in how awkward they are with each other.

But then - I don't really want Barret/Cloud as a serious romance option on the date because it might take away from Tifa and Aerith's romantic subplots - but maybe giving the player the option to ignore those subplots and pursue Barret would be good? IDK

 

[Channy]

Cloud and Yuffie are the only thing that's canon because their kiss is the only physical affection showed on screen.

 

[55-]

The Love Pentagon Debate

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

This is why Reno should be a date option.

I guess it never occurred to me that there could be anything innately hilarious about two guys going on a date - what made it funny was that the two guys were Barret and Cloud.

Like so much entertainment made for YAs, FFVII was seriously lacking in good parenting models. Most of the mothers were dead or absent (Ifalna, Lucretia, Cloud's mother, Tifa's mother, Yuffie's mother, even Marlene's mother) and most of the fathers were either absent, useless, or downright evil (Cloud's father, President Shinra, Hojo, Gast, even Seto, although he was redeemed). Amongst all this parental absenteeism and incompetence Barret shines forth as a truly good father, who, like most parents, is constantly unsure of exactly what is best for Marlene. "I want to stay with her, but I got to fight, but really I just wanna be with her always... you see I'm going round in circles."

 

[Channy]

If it's aimed at young adults, there are no parents because teenagers wish theirs would just disappear.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

I just assumed it was easier to have no adults because it's a case of 'aren't your parents worried?" We assume most parents wouldn't let their kids run off to save the world.

KH is really bad - like Sora's mom just disappears and he doesn't seem that concerned and we never see if he gets to go home. Like all these kids in that game just seem not to have parents. One of my friends said "I just assumed they were all orphans" and I'm like "I just assumed this world doesn't believe in parental super vision" (much like the pokemon world).

It seems in fiction we have a choice of grappling with young adults becoming independent and leaving families/addressing how and why young heroes leave home and family to be heroes OR we have a world where parents don't care if their 10 - 18 year goes on an adventure OR hometown is destroyed/no home or family = instant independence. Where writing the first is a lot harder - since growing up and becoming independent is gradual and complex and family ties are life long - not really conducive to instant hero. (Points to shows like Buffy that have YA hero who also has to deal with family stuff)

But that aside, yeah Barret is wonderful. How many single parent heroes do we get (Mrs. Brisby is the only one who springs to mind) and getting a single Dad in the spotlight - totally awesome.

 

[RedFFWolf]

"Cuddlebum"

I just wanted to make sure people were totally aware of this.


But now I'd also like to say how great Barret is - sometimes when you look at what is simply the case, the kind of thing that isn't said outright, you realise an even greater depth of persona and character.

Also, I don't wanna speak too soon, but Barret was the only one who didn't have to force Cloud out for this "date"

 

[Joker]

the hd ltd begins

called it

 

[Starling]

I was perfectly okay with sounding rude because you were rude first. That was the second time that day you had referenced a post of mine indirectly.
The nature of this post was you going "god I hate people who are like this," and I'm like, I'm right here, say that to my face.
I don't think your description of me was accurate. I wrote an entire huge paragraph explaining why I don't think I was railroading a complex platonic relationship into a simple romantic one. I don't like doing that. I am a big appreciator of platonic love. I am not the imaginary, perceived enemy you have in your head. Please stop telling me what I think.
Anyway, what I am doing here, all I am doing here, is suggesting that there is enough evidence of Barret having a lil crush on Cloud that it is a possible reading of the text.
In the same way that people have a million different readings of a million different vague, interpretive moments of FFVII.

If you'll notice, I post responses to things people say without quoting a fair bit, not only with you. In fact, other people do it too, including you. Responding to the most recent post without quoting it shouldn't be considered unusual or offensive. I specifically said in my response that I chose not to quote your entire post so my response wouldn't be excessively long. I even said it in the first paragraph, right after clarifying what I was saying in the post you got offended about.

I was not being rude. I've made it clear already that I was expressing dislike for the trope and how it was used, as well as why. From what you've been saying, you took it to mean I was singling you out and disregarding your opinion. I understand how you could get offended when you see it that way but the way you decided to express that was rather rude and disrespectful.

I don't recall telling you what you think at any point in what I've said. At most, I've explained how what you've said comes across to me, which I'm aware isn't necessarily what you're trying to convey, as shown with what I've said and how you've reacted to it.

I don't really care whether or not anything I say changes your opinion on Barret's romantic interests. I'm simply expressing disagreement with that interpretation and don't really expect you to change your mind about it. My hangup is more on the Tsundere thing than anything.

 

[NikolaiBroketheZoom]

Barret was the only one who didn't have to force Cloud out for this "date"

I honestly think that's more evidence that Cloud and Barret's relationship is platonic. With the other three, Cloud probably had reservations about going out with them because he'd be afraid of being expected to make a move, whereas with Barret he can just relax - well, kind of - and not have to do anything couple-y.

 

[Channy]

What if Cloud was asexual the entire time?

 

[Starling]

That still leaves romantic attraction.

 

[Channy]

Towards everyone yes, but also explains the lack of sexual action as well. Including Yuffie's kiss and Cloud is unresponsive.

 

[Starling]

Regarding Yuffie's kiss, it's not that unusual for a kiss on the cheek to signify platonic affection, though it can also signify the person has a crush. Just because Cloud isn't sexually attracted to Yuffie doesn't mean he's asexual. It's kinda hard to tell whether or not a character is asexual unless it's made explicitly clear. Either way, any sexual activity that may be occurring between characters isn't really going to be more than implied.

 

[Channy]

I dunno, the last of him so much as returning/kissing anyone is sort of a clear indication. Granted, yeah, he knew Aerith for a few weeks, she died.. he knew Tifa for years and comes back but nothing escalates (there is no Highwind scene!) and the kiss to Yuffie where his reaction was pretty much

 

[55-]

I was not being rude.

Never say this ever again in your life, you will be wrong 100% of the time.

I thought I made this perfectly clear, but what irritated me was that you painted me into being a "type of person" making a "type of attitude," instead of just actually listening to and paying attention to what I was saying.

Anyway, just so we're allllll everyone clear on this, I am not arguing that Barret is definitely super in love with Cloud. I'm arguing that it is a valid reading of the text.
I don't know if y'all have never taken a literature course, or if you just had terrible teachers, but a literature course will teach you that there are no correct interpretations of a piece of fiction, you just have to be able to back up your reading with evidence from the text and make a good argument.
I like playing around with different ideas, finding new ways to look at the same piece of fiction. It's fun for me. And it's kind of something I was hoping to do on these forums. Unfortunately, it seems like people aren't always into the idea of theorizing. Maybe it's because the game's been out so long, and people have such intense attachments to it, but sometimes it seems like people have their own very specific interpretations and ideas about everything that happened in this highly vague and interpretive mess of a narrative. And they're so stuck in those opinions that it's almost offensive to suggest anything else.
That annoys me. That's the kind of attitude that makes me go from casually throwing something out as an idea, to defending it to the death.
Idk if Barret has a crush on Cloud or not. I am not claiming to know. But without any explicit statements one way or the other, either reading is valid.

 

[Channy]

Oh ffs, can't we all just get along and drop it?

 

[55-]

I dunno, the last of him so much as returning/kissing anyone is sort of a clear indication. Granted, yeah, he knew Aerith for a few weeks, she died.. he knew Tifa for years and comes back but nothing escalates (there is no Highwind scene!) and the kiss to Yuffie where his reaction was pretty much

Cloud is emotionally a teenager, maybe he's just inexperienced, clueless, and more awkward than he lets on because he's busy trying to look like a big tough Soldier man.
Also there's the Honeybee Inn stuff. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But I have heard that asexuals can still express interest in sexual activity, the label is more about not feeling sexual attraction towards any person. Seems like the kind of thing you would have an impossibly hard time determining based on behavior alone. If you wanted a character to read as asexual, you'd pretty much have to have them either outright state that they identify that way, or have a long in depth conversation about the variety of attraction, or lack thereof, that they feel towards people.

 

[55-]

Oh ffs, can't we all just get along and drop it?

Ye

 

[Channy]

Cloud is emotionally a teenager, maybe he's just inexperienced, clueless, and more awkward than he lets on because he's busy trying to look like a big tough Soldier man.
Also there's the Honeybee Inn stuff. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Aha! And the Honeybee Inn stuff too.. women skipping in scantilly clad outfits and not so much as an eyebrow raise or tight pants out of our ol' Cloud.

 

[Starling]

I dunno, the last of him so much as returning/kissing anyone is sort of a clear indication. Granted, yeah, he knew Aerith for a few weeks, she died.. he knew Tifa for years and comes back but nothing escalates (there is no Highwind scene!) and the kiss to Yuffie where his reaction was pretty much

The Highwind scene implies some form of intimacy occurred, though what kind of intimacy is up for debate. The scrapped version implies they had sex in the Chocobo stables though, so there's that. While that version gives us an idea of something that may or may not still be intended and canon suggests Cloud and Tifa are romantically involved, their relationship doesn't necessarily have to involve sex.

Never say this ever again in your life, you will be wrong 100% of the time.

I thought I made this perfectly clear, but what irritated me was that you painted me into being a "type of person" making a "type of attitude," instead of just actually listening to and paying attention to what I was saying.

Anyway, just so we're allllll everyone clear on this, I am not arguing that Barret is definitely super in love with Cloud. I'm arguing that it is a valid reading of the text.
I don't know if y'all have never taken a literature course, or if you just had terrible teachers, but a literature course will teach you that there are no correct interpretations of a piece of fiction, you just have to be able to back up your reading with evidence from the text and make a good argument.
I like playing around with different ideas, finding new ways to look at the same piece of fiction. It's fun for me. And it's kind of something I was hoping to do on these forums. Unfortunately, it seems like people aren't always into the idea of theorizing. Maybe it's because the game's been out so long, and people have such intense attachments to it, but sometimes it seems like people have their own very specific interpretations and ideas about everything that happened in this highly vague and interpretive mess of a narrative. And they're so stuck in those opinions that it's almost offensive to suggest anything else.
That annoys me. That's the kind of attitude that makes me go from casually throwing something out as an idea, to defending it to the death.
Idk if Barret has a crush on Cloud or not. I am not claiming to know. But without any explicit statements one way or the other, either reading is valid.

I didn't paint you as a particular person. My responses have next to no relation to what kind of person you are, beyond how rude you're being. I am paying attention to what you're saying and it seems you aren't doing the same, considering how much I have to repeat. I am not saying you can't interpret Barret as having romantic feelings for Cloud. I'm saying that I don't agree with that interpretation as I find it unlikely and view them more in a platonic light. In no way am I saying you can't continue to view them the way you are. I actually quite enjoy theorizing about stuff. What I don't enjoy is having to argue with someone about how condescending they are about what they're saying and having to talk in circles because they don't seem to understand the point I'm trying to make.

 

[55-]

Aha! And the Honeybee Inn stuff too.. women skipping in scantilly clad outfits and not so much as an eyebrow raise or tight pants out of our ol' Cloud.

TBF,

How would you be able to tell?

That whole scene is actually real odd, now that I think about it. The way that Cloud is completely impossible to read throughout, and he doesn't react to anything. Makes me wonder if they had half a mind to make him a silent protagonist or something.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

What I like is that you as player can decide who Cloud dates - so maybe Clouds interests can be whatever you want - although he's a more into Tifa and Aerith - you can choose who you like/who you want to see him with - and interpret the relationships however you want.

 

[Starling]

I think the weird balance of player choice and characters doing their own thing is that it's meant to parallel Cloud's issues, you think you have control over what Cloud does and for a while you do but then control is suddenly taken from you, the reveal happens and then Cloud figures out who he really is.

 

[RedFFWolf]

I honestly think that's more evidence that Cloud and Barret's relationship is platonic. With the other three, Cloud probably had reservations about going out with them because he'd be afraid of being expected to make a move, whereas with Barret he can just relax - well, kind of - and not have to do anything couple-y.

Ah, I know - I genuinely do not believe for one second there is any form of repressed feelings of a romantic nature - hence the "shifty eyes"; I was just jokin' about with that one (but I know you meant your point just in a general manner)

It also tells us Cloud knows better than to argue with him in this case, heh!