Brave

[Ⓐaron]

Pocahontas too.

Anyway, apparently Disney has replaced the redesign with the original design on their site. So evidently fan backlashes can have a significant effect.

I still haven't seen this. I probably should.

 

[Unlucky]

Seems like fans aren't the only ones displeased by this.

Brenda Chapman, 'Brave' Creator, Calls Merida's Makeover 'Atrocious'

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Well, given that Merida was a Pixar creation, what else were people expecting?

As a general rule, Pixar films don't fit the Disney mold; it's kind of given their princess film wouldn't either. And Disney loves making everything match...

 

[Super Mario]

The hell is up with that silly rendition? I'm glad they brought it back to the original design.

 

[Alex Strife]

I still do not understand the implications of changing the design. It's not like the movie will be changed, right?

So what, if they use a different art in their official materials? The movie should be left unchanged, right?

I just don't understand why there's SO MUCH uproar. I can understand the reason for it and that people may dislike Disney for changing the image and using it on their official materials and whatnot. But is it really so wrong, when the movie remains untouched?

[/enlightenme]

 

[Arianna]

I just don't understand why there's SO MUCH uproar. I can understand the reason for it and that people may dislike Disney for changing the image and using it on their official materials and whatnot. But is it really so wrong, when the movie remains untouched?

[/enlightenme]

This is my opinion, and other people may disagree (though I think this is the general gist of the overall problem): It's the fact that she's not good enough as she is. She has to be made up and conform to what was the standard for the other Disney Princesses (which honestly has already been broken, in some way, by Mulan (who is not a princess, so why is she there?) and Pocahontas). Her frilly hair is not good enough, it must be silky, smooth locks; her face is not good enough, no marks or blemishes of any kind (aka: her freckles). Her eyes are not the right shape! Her dress should be more flowing, it should be brighter in color, it should sparkle! All of these things go into the messages that are leading girls and women alike to hate their bodies as they are, and strive to be something they are not. Instead of being real girls, real women, instead of just being who they are, they are supposed to fit a model that is socially acceptable. Sadly, who people are matters less than what people are.

 

[Octo]

Just being devils advocate here. Is it possible that Disney has been seeing poor sales of Brave merchandise and are trying to compensate?

Reminds me of the Simpsons with the Lisa Lionheart/Malibu Stacy thing.

Anyway the new artwork is terrible, she looks about 40.

 

[Unlucky]

Anyway the new artwork is terrible, she looks about 40.

And Botox'ed.

 

[Alex Strife]

I guess I am the type of person who has never taken Disney seriously.

To me, they've always been stories. And stories for children have always been full of people who are beautiful/handsome, brave (see what I did there?), and successful. I mean, I've studied to be a teacher, and one of the reasons good looking characters are often used is because children are naturally attracted to them, and they simply dislike characters who look worse. In the end, a minor character who looked "prettier" than Merida could "sell" better than herself, despite being the main character.*

I never thought "this is the type of guy I have to be" (Prince archetype?) nor I thought "this is how women will be". But I guess I'm an oddball and I can see why children would think differently.

Thanks for the opinion, Ari. It was most welcome.


* That is why I thought that, while it's good to have a princess focus on her own strength and not necessarily playing the role of a damsel in distress, the character design is something that's more difficult to change, since there are reasonable reasons why they are designed the way they are. We need to think their primary demographic are young children; not us. And children and adults see the world through different eyes. Don't get me wrong, though. I agree the change is silly, and the design was already good in my opinion.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I guess I am the type of person who has never taken Disney seriously.

To me, they've always been stories. And stories for children have always been full of people who are beautiful/handsome, brave (see what I did there?), and successful. I mean, I've studied to be a teacher, and one of the reasons good looking characters are often used is because children are naturally attracted to them, and they simply dislike characters who look worse.

Well, that's the thing. She has -- like most people -- always been pretty. Changing her design says "she wasn't pretty enough" -- i.e. "not pretty enough to be special/worthy/a princess."

Really, the average person is attractive. Nature knows what it's doing. The point of Merida's original design was that she just look more like that average girl, emphasizing the value and beauty in the normal. Changing that would not only pervert the purpose behind the character, but also send entirely the wrong message to anyone, young or old, who had appreciated the relative normalcy of her design.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I mean, I've studied to be a teacher, and one of the reasons good looking characters are often used is because children are naturally attracted to them, and they simply dislike characters who look worse.

 

[Pixel]

But the newer version looks ugly. I dont see how they've prettied her up in any way

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yeah, truth be told, the original design has the softer features that are more associated in the human mind with kindness and trust.

 

[Alex Strife]

Oh please, you know what I mean...

This is why I rarely get into proper discussions. I literally never get my point across, it seems.

Well, fuck it. I'm done here.

 

[Arianna]

I never thought "this is the type of guy I have to be" (Prince archetype?) nor I thought "this is how women will be". But I guess I'm an oddball and I can see why children would think differently.

Oh please, you know what I mean...

I think the problem is not what you said Alex (of course, again, this is my take on things), it's the fact that this problem exists at all. It's how the western world has created such a vision that the perfect woman is *this* and cannot deviate (same with men, but they aren't held to the same visual critique as women are, still men are held to a mental stereotype that they have to *that* to be a 'real man'.) It's ridiculous. No one can fit into a stereotype built upon the whims of a few male fashion and 'beauty' designers, based on a few female fashion and 'beauty' models. Hells, even those models aren't perfect (though gods forbid anyone tells anyone that and gets notariety for the truth - as far as I've heard or seen), 'cause they are put through Photoshop (or Photoshop-like programs) *each and every time* before being published in a magazine or what-have-you. Thin is never *thin* enough, clear is never *clear* enough (complexion wise). It's ridiculous.

But the newer version looks ugly. I dont see how they've prettied her up in any way

If anything is okay about that new make up is they took the dress she wore for the presentation of the lords, and made it less physically restricting. That's the only thing that is sort-of acceptable to me. That's not Merida though; she hated getting up in that dress because it was so restricting, and wasn't her. It was what her mother wanted. Also, problems with this design are her usual belt was never worn with that dress (from what I remember), nor was her family's design (the plaid design and colors that is worn by the men; I don't know what that is called.)

 

[Tennyo]

I understood what you meant, Alex.

We as adults might think the new Merida is awful, but little kids might not. I know that when I was a kid I would have preferred the new Merida over the original. It fits with the image that I had in my head back then of what girls/princesses should look like.

It's a problem that we need to admit exists when it comes to a child's perception.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

These three posts address basically everything brought up so far.

(Sorry for the link dump, but I'm posting from my phone)


http://coelasquid.tumblr.com/post/50487627494/whenever-i-see-some-equivalent-of-little-girls

http://coelasquid.tumblr.com/post/50510771905/as-long-as-we-re-still-on-the-subject-of-brave

http://coelasquid.tumblr.com/post/50511312228/vladthedefenstrator-replied-to-your-photoset-as


X

 

[Obsidian Fire]

What I will say is that I think Merida's most iconic dress is the princess dress she hates because she destroys it. As in, it's really a defining moment for her because of what she does with it.

2-cents: From what I remember of my childhood, I didn't like ugly-looking outfits. I liked dressing my dolls in what looked good. If I was the same kid I was and growing up now, I would like her princess dress better then the one she usually wears because it looks prettier. For me as a kid, princess dresses went with princess dolls/roles and non-princess outfits went with non-princess dolls/roles.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I understood what you meant, Alex.

We as adults might think the new Merida is awful, but little kids might not. I know that when I was a kid I would have preferred the new Merida over the original. It fits with the image that I had in my head back then of what girls/princesses should look like.

It's a problem that we need to admit exists when it comes to a child's perception.

Though the question that needs asking here is did you think that girls/princesses should look more like that because that's inherently what children think or because you had already been given the impression that such a design is closer to what girls/princesses should look like and had accepted it?

I understood what Alex was saying too, but I'm simply making the point that Merida as she originally was designed would have been just as easily accepted as pretty based on what we know to be inherent wiring of the mind (soft expressions and features = friendly, positive, good, etc.) rather than on likely social programming.


Alex: Why did you get pissed, dude?

 

[Alex Strife]

I understood what Alex was saying too, but I'm simply making the point that Merida as she originally was designed would have been just as easily accepted as pretty based on what we know to be inherent wiring of the mind (soft features = friendly, positive, good, etc.) rather than on likely social programming.

I think so too. But I try to find a reasoning behind what people do, instead of just going "it's outrageous!" (which it may be). I prefer trying to analyse, instead of just let my heart take over and just complain.

Alex: Why did you get pissed, dude?

I was trying to explain that, generally speaking, girls seem to prefer the whole "Princess" setting. The pretty frilly dresses, all that. Even the title "Princess", which seems to be younger than Queen, which 'sounds' older. They do have a preference, in general terms. Whether it was Disney themselves who created this or not, I never meant to explain it. But there is a trend (does not mean to say EVERYONE is like that), which is a reason why marketing works. My reasoning is: Do you guys really think if the "not frilly Merida" (and infinitely better imho) sold better, they'd change her? Well I don't think so!!

And when I tried to explain that, I saw someone answering to my comment with a facepalm reaction pic (serious compliments on it still being incredibly on topic, though, GLD!!), which made me snap. I felt ridiculed. And I felt like an idiot for having gone into a type of discussion I usually would not get into and then it ending like that.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Thanks for the explanation.

I think so too. But I try to find a reasoning behind what people do, instead of just going "it's outrageous!" (which it may be). I prefer trying to analyse, instead of just let my heart take over and just complain.

I was trying to explain that, generally speaking, girls seem to prefer the whole "Princess" setting. The pretty frilly dresses, all that. Even the title "Princess", which seems to be younger than Queen, which 'sounds' older. They do have a preference, in general terms. Whether it was Disney themselves who created this or not, I never meant to explain it. But there is a trend (does not mean to say EVERYONE is like that), which is a reason why marketing works.

I think people in general, including those of us here, react the way we do because most of us do not have influence. Therefore, we hold those who do have power to expectations that they not only do what is marketable, but that they use their influence in actively constructive ways -- even if that means attempting to reshape what is marketable in a positive fashion.

 

[Unlucky]

I don't have much complains about the revamps of some of the Disney princesses, like Snow White or Cinderella for example. The added bling and "enhancement" of the outfits is something I'd associate with being a princess, so I think it's going to be a matter of preference. Basically what I have an issue with is if the trait of the character is cast aside for the aesthetics. Because I believe the whole look can be enhanced while still preserving their character. (The sexification is another matter)

And that's exactly what happened to Merida's new look. It overlooked her feelings about all these princessy stuff as we saw in her story. They could have came up with something more fitting to her personality, if you will. (Same goes with Pocahontas, for a different reason).

But anyway, kids won't be so bothered by this, well at least not all of them. This has gotten so much backlash because of the adult fanbase. Seeing that, I don't think Disney is so uncreative and insensitive (because we all know their movies aren't exclusively targeted to a young audience) to adapt and come up with something better.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

And when I tried to explain that, I saw someone answering to my comment with a facepalm reaction pic (serious compliments on it still being incredibly on topic, though, GLD!!), which made me snap. I felt ridiculed. And I felt like an idiot for having gone into a type of discussion I usually would not get into and then it ending like that.

You were supposed to laugh Hence the super on-topic choice of pic, plus the fact that Beast could just as easily be crying because he's not pretty as opposed to face palming. What ridicule I intended, I intended for the notion that beauty = good, not for you or your explanation.

 

[Unlucky]

^I know it's not directed to me but I gotta admit I also thought you meant it as a facepalm I get it now and it's funny

 

[Alex Strife]

Ah! Now that makes sense! Sorry for thinking ill of you; that was my mistake. I should've known better...