Character Battle QF1: Cloud vs Celes

[Celes Chere]

I don't think they apply more to Locke? Because the song is not about choosing between two lovers... it's about Maria waiting for her Hero (Draco) to return to her. Now that you mention the island, this is where she wants to end her life but she finds Locke's bandanna and basically finds the will to live again. This is all related to her wanting to find him, waiting for a sign of hope, etc. I find that to be extremely romantic, I think that relates to the song very well, but again that could just be me. xD

Also fun bit of trivia I remember, "Aria di Mezzo Carattere" means "Aria of Half Character"
which leads me to believe it is even more relateable to Celes.

 

[penandpaper]

I'm not going to dispute the whole Celes vs. Locke thing because I always thought that it spoke for both of them in slightly different ways, which is part of why I liked that scene so much. A scene doesn't have to be devoted to one character, in my opinion.

But, I will admit that I never thought that the whole finding Locke's bandanna thing meant that she changed her mind just because he was alive, but because she came to the realization that she wasn't alone in the world. I'm not saying that to diminish Locke's importance to her because he's obviously important to her, but as I recall she only loses the will to live after Cid dies (Please correct me if I'm remembering incorrectly. It's been a while since I played through this game and I'm fuzzy on some of the details. I should replay it. ) and she's left alone. I always assumed that it was that knowledge that somewhere in the world there was someone else that still lived, and on top of that, it was someone that she cared for, that pressed her to decide to live on. Not that it was specifically Locke.

But I'm probably wrong, so there we go.

 

[ForceStealer]

Where the hell were you during all my "Sephiroth was too looking to kill" debates? Never heard this brought up before.

Hm?

And yeah, not because of Sephiroth's question. Unlike in AC, reminding Cloud of the things he cherishes wasn't enough to get him to save himself in ACC. He needed Zack.

Well...Cloud took a LOT more damage in ACC. I do see what you're saying, but I could see requiring a bit more encouragement having been so unbelieveably overpowered he was in ACC rather than just being stabbed through the shoulder.
Like I said, I can kinda see what you're getting at, but I really don't think Zack's conversation really smacks reminding Cloud that he is who Cloud cherishes. He actually gives very pragmatic advice. He offers to help, Cloud denies it. He then points out "You already beat him once, didn't you? This should be a cinch."
If anything, he reminds Cloud more of Cloud's own strength, rather than reminding him of the Living Legacy business. The way he says it...in English anyway, always kinda struck me as a personal question (on Zack's part). He himself wanted to know if Cloud remembered, since Cloud was nearly comatose when he told Cloud that.



Locke and Celes. I tend to agree with pen. But I think I just have a slightly "harder" view of Celes. It isn't her sensitive side/love for Locke that endeared me to her, so maybe that's why I never perceived any sort of connection to that in the opera.
I like that she's a general, she's authoritative and headstrong (not some opera-floozy ) but she's struck with the guilt of learning the source of her magic, and before she can try to begin to repay the Espers, she helps bring them into their world only have Kefka slaughter them. Then finds herself alone on a destroyed world and everyone she knew is dead (and she couldn't save the one other person who wasn't). Like pen said, I saw Locke's bandana stopping her suicide attempt not so much for love (though it's possible) but just giving her some reason to believe that she's NOT the only person left alove.

 

[Celes Chere]

Well, I agree with you there. I just believe that she can still be strong willed etc, and still show her love for Locke in many ways, and I believe that she does. I think yes, she would have reacted similarly if she had found proof that anyone was alive but the fact that it was Locke gave her the strongest reaction. . . I mean, she risks her life to retrieve that bandanna later on, and she gets scolded for being foolish. XD; There is a romantic side to her, that I see. ^^;

Celes is strong, but being in love doesn't make her weak, imo. I think you can harbor a sensitive side and still be brave and hold authority.

 

[ForceStealer]

Of course you can, I just meant that that side of her wasn't what endeared me to her.

Not being a shipper and all

 

[Celes Chere]

Not being a shipper and all

how do you live

 

[Strangelove]

how do you live

without the inundation of feelings over fictional characters that oft accompany shippers

 

[Celes Chere]

But... HOW

 

[Tifabelle]

Everyone ships something. Just some more than others.

 

[Mantichorus]

Well, part of the problem with me is hype exhaustion. At times, one could be forgiven for thinking that Cloud and Sephiroth are the only two characters in all of the Final Fantasy games ever. FFVII Cloud is likeable, but he's been successively Flanderised in every other game (and AC/C) he's appeared in, with the possible exception of Crisis Core.

So, yeah. Only Red, Zack, Angeal, Vincent and Yuffie could've drawn a vote for a FFVII character from me ATM.

 

[Roger]

He himself wanted to know if Cloud remembered, since Cloud was nearly comatose when he told Cloud that.

Yeah okay, I brought this up before. In Advent Children he was like "I said I'd live out both our lives, easy to make that promise... I SWORE that I would never forget."

AC made me see it more as a concious decision on Cloud's part, rather then a halfcomatose "sure whatever you say", CC took a different route and ACC's Zack scene helps reflect it better. To that extent I get why it was neccesary, but I'm not happy where they put it.

I like that she's a general, she's authoritative and headstrong (not some opera-floozy )

Well, I think the implication is that you can't do opera well, without getting in touch with your sensitive side. Initially she was screwing up,
but she eventually showed she was as good a Maria as can be. So yeah, she's a hardcore general raised by the Empire to burn villages, but she's not totally an ice-queen yet. When you meet Cid they go further into this. With that the Opera scene works as the start of a her stint as the main character.

 

[Flintlock]

Cloud won, comfortably. I would have voted for him as well, had a tie-breaker been needed.