[quote author=Shademp link=topic=29.msg25095#msg25095 date=1235939821]
[quote author=Cthulhu link=topic=29.msg25093#msg25093 date=1235939502]
Also, scientific research concluded that praying doesn't work,
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Which goes without saying, as far as divine intervention is concerned. However there are methods to reinforce oneself's self confidence, some of those methods may be considered "praying" by some.
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Funny that you mention that, since according to the research (which I read about in a book that probably can't be considered 'neutral' on the standpoint, mind), it's the other way around. They had three groups, a total of 1800 people or so, who all had had a particular type of heart surgery performed on them. The members of one group received prayers from churches (that were all a pretty big distance from the hospitals) without them knowing they were being prayed for, another didn't get prayed for (and also didn't know it, double-blind research and whatnot), and the third were prayed for and did know about it.
There was no significant difference between the two groups that were and weren't prayed for, but there was in the group that was prayed for and knew about it - they showed more complications and longer recovery times after the surgery. It can probably be attributed to a psychological cause though - them getting nervous or pressured into getting better faster because they were getting prayed for or something. But in any case, the results are lulzy,
.
I do quite like a comment that followed that particular section though:
He [Richard Swinburne] rightly suggests that if God wanted to demonstrate his own existence he would find better ways to do it than slightly biasing the recovery statistics of experimental versus control groups of heart patients. If God existed and wanted to convince us of it, he could 'fill the world with super-miracles'.
But the best thing of course would to form a plan and execute it well. If I recall correctly Ctulhu you are an engineer, right? Tell me about your occupation
That's a broad subject,
. I'll start a new thread on my programming adventures in Amsterdam for that, even, fgj.