Common Misconceptions

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Teiocho has PM'ed me with an idea for an article that she originally wanted to write, but is currently unable to write herself. Here's what she suggested:

A mini-series of articles or just one big long one about 'Common Fan Misconceptions' that still hang around till this day. I'm thinking things like Johnny being a childhood friend of Cloud and Tifa's, President Shinra being at the Honeybee Inn and who the voice talking to Cloud really is. Shademp has written a few articles sort of like this such as his 'What is the name of FFVII’s planet?' and 'Origins of the Shera.'

This seemed like a great idea to me, but I thought that before I invested a lot of time in it, I should make sure that what she had in mind didn't already exist somewhere else. I did a google search for "FFVII common misconceptions" and it led me to the Gamefaqs Forums, which provided the following tidbits:

You're chasing Sephiroth during disc 1 and the beginning of disc 2.
-No, you're chasing Jenova (minus her head) who has taken the shape of Sephiroth. This is why you fight Jenova-BIRTH, LIFE, and DEATH. When you meet Jenova in the cargo ship, for example, she leaves an arm behind, which mutates into a monster (Jenova-BIRTH). It is also Jenova that kills Aerith, right before another part of her mutates into Jenova-LIFE.

I knew this but hadn't thought it through.

Jenova is the real villain
-No, it is pretty obvious that Sephiroth is the one in control. He's sitting in the crater the entire game, making all the Jenova cells that are scattered all over the planet come to him to reunite. This includes Cloud's Jenova cells (and therefor Cloud himself, obviously) and the main body which was being kept in the Shinra HQ. He also makes them bring him the Black Materia.

I remember we had a big debate at one point - was it Mr Ite versus everyone else? - on whether Jenova was the real villain and Sephiroth just a cipher, or vice versa. This argument clinches it for me: Sephiroth is making the clones, and jenova, come to him, rather than Jenova making them all come to her.

The voices in Cloud's head are Jenova/Sephiroth/Zack/Tifa
-No, they're the "real Cloud" (with Cloud's real memories) speaking to "Jenova Cloud" (with Zack's memories).

Is this true? I assumed the voices were Cloud's memories of conversations with Zack.

There's a "Common Misconceptions" link on the Citadel, but no information was ever added to it and it's not live.

So, what do you think? if you guys are willing to contribute any common misconceptions you know to this thread, I'll take the list and write an article.

Here's my two to start us off:

1. Rufus was in Junon when his father was killed.

2. Genesis is a sympathetic character.

 

[Flintlock]

I would love to read an article like that. I can't say I've ever heard either of the two misconceptions you already mentioned, though. In the case of the latter, it might just be because I've never played Crisis Core.

I don't know if this is a misconception or just a mistake in the game (Scarlet's dialogue conflicts with the rendered graphics in Junon), but I know a lot of people think that:

3. The Mako cannon was only renamed the Sister Ray when it was moved to Midgar.

Another one, which Shademp has already covered, is that:

4. Weapon should be written as WEAPON.

While I know a lot of people think that:

5. The Bahamut ZERO materia can be missed permanently.

(It can be dug up in Bone Village.)

I'll try to think of some more!

 

[Clement Rage]

Teiocho has PM'ed me with an idea for an article that she originally wanted to write, but is currently unable to write herself. Here's what she suggested:



This seemed like a great idea to me, but I thought that before I invested a lot of time in it, I should make sure that what she had in mind didn't already exist somewhere else. I did a google search for "FFVII common misconceptions" and it led me to the Gamefaqs Forums, which provided the following tidbits:

You're chasing Sephiroth during disc 1 and the beginning of disc 2.
-No, you're chasing Jenova (minus her head) who has taken the shape of Sephiroth. This is why you fight Jenova-BIRTH, LIFE, and DEATH. When you meet Jenova in the cargo ship, for example, she leaves an arm behind, which mutates into a monster (Jenova-BIRTH). It is also Jenova that kills Aerith, right before another part of her mutates into Jenova-LIFE.

I knew this but hadn't thought it through.



I remember we had a big debate at one point - was it Mr Ite versus everyone else? - on whether Jenova was the real villain and Sephiroth just a cipher, or vice versa. This argument clinches it for me: Sephiroth is making the clones, and jenova, come to him, rather than Jenova making them all come to her.



Is this true? I assumed the voices were Cloud's memories of conversations with Zack.

There's a "Common Misconceptions" link on the Citadel, but no information was ever added to it and it's not live.

So, what do you think? if you guys are willing to contribute any common misconceptions you know to this thread, I'll take the list and write an article.

Here's my two to start us off:

1. Rufus was in Junon when his father was killed.

2. Genesis is a sympathetic character.

Sympathy is very relative, I'm not sure if it counts as a misconception. I mean, that's like me saying 'Rufus has good intentions'.

Mine:

LOVELESS is only twenty lines long, and is a poem.(It's actually an entire play)

 

[Roger]

Is this true? I assumed the voices were Cloud's memories of conversations with Zack.

It is true. Tho the "this isn't a normal reactor" line still seems like a holdover from an early development iteration of the Nibelheim flashback. (If this is still true the only one who could have possibly said that to Cloud is Zangan tho.)

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Genesis is a sympathetic character

Sympathy is very relative, I'm not sure if it counts as a misconception. I mean, that's like me saying 'Rufus has good intentions'.

Mine:

LOVELESS is only twenty lines long, and is a poem.(It's actually an entire play)

I was being snarky.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

It is true. Tho the "this isn't a normal reactor" line still seems like a holdover from an early development iteration of the Nibelheim flashback. (If this is still true the only one who could have possibly said that to Cloud is Zangan tho.)

Why? Why couldn't Zack have said it?

 

[jazzflower92]

Some commenters have noticed that the narrative was trying to make Genesis into a sympathetic character but failed at it.

 

[Lex]

I don't know if this is a misconception or just a mistake in the game (Scarlet's dialogue conflicts with the rendered graphics in Junon), but I know a lot of people think that:

3. The Mako cannon was only renamed the Sister Ray when it was moved to Midgar.

Another one, which Shademp has already covered, is that:

4. Weapon should be written as WEAPON.

While I know a lot of people think that:

5. The Bahamut ZERO materia can be missed permanently.

(It can be dug up in Bone Village.)

I'll try to think of some more!

3: Also unclear on this one. We know it has "Sister Ray" written on it prior to it being moved to Junon so either the translation is incorrect or the dev team cross-talk was non-existent as other evidence has pointed out.

4: Yes I remember that discussion and I provided evidence at the time as to why this is the case. The original Brady Games guide lists all of the Weapons as "WEAPON", both in their boss title info pages and discussion points throughout the guide. This is the only place that misconception could have come from to my knowledge. I have screenies of it since I have both the black and white PC and colour playstation guides, which have huge differences between them.

5. Same goes for W-Item and Phoenix! Everyone forgets this

Why? Why couldn't Zack have said it?

Zack could have said it, you're not wrong. But I'm not sure it would fit with the rest of the conversations since we know they're all Cloud.

 

[ForceStealer]

on whether Jenova was the real villain and Sephiroth just a

Spoiler: cipher

 

[CameoAmalthea]

1. Rufus was in Junon when his father was killed.

Where was Rufus?

At the end of Before Crisis (the night of the first reactor attack by Cloud and Co) he gets in a Helicopter and flies away. In FFVII we don't see him again until after his father died when he shoes up via Helicopter.

Rufus didn't take part in any board meetings prior to his father's death. I assume as VP he would want to be there. Although he is gone during the majority of CC (secretly founding and supporting AVALANCHE) and thus doesn't make a lot of meetings, in BC he does frequently talk to his father and give his impute on situations prior to his incarceration. While most of these interactions are Rufus trying to further his anti-Shinra agenda, it still strikes me as odd that he wouldn't be at meetings at the beginning of the game.

This, as well as his departure and arrival by helicopter, suggest that he wasn't in Midgar.

So where was he exactly and why was he there?

 

[Keveh Kins]

I was being snarky.

You were tellin' the truth

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Where was Rufus?

At the end of Before Crisis (the night of the first reactor attack by Cloud and Co) he gets in a Helicopter and flies away. In FFVII we don't see him again until after his father died when he shoes up via Helicopter.

Rufus didn't take part in any board meetings prior to his father's death. I assume as VP he would want to be there. Although he is gone during the majority of CC (secretly founding and supporting AVALANCHE) and thus doesn't make a lot of meetings, in BC he does frequently talk to his father and give his impute on situations prior to his incarceration. While most of these interactions are Rufus trying to further his anti-Shinra agenda, it still strikes me as odd that he wouldn't be at meetings at the beginning of the game.

This, as well as his departure and arrival by helicopter, suggest that he wasn't in Midgar.

So where was he exactly and why was he there?

There's no canon answer. He wasn't at the meeting, but aside from that he could have been anywhere. If fan-writers want to put him in Junon, that's fair enough, but there seems to be a common misconception that canon states he was there.

 

[Roger]

Why? Why couldn't Zack have said it?

Cuz we see him arrive at the Mako Reactor, not say it and then go in without Cloud. Night of the fire, he leaves Cloud to burn in the village, Cloud and Zack arrive at the Reactor seperately. Maybe Cloud remembers Sephiroth saying it too Zack off screen.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

That's what I was thinking - Cloud is remembering conversations they had off-screen.

 

[Octo]

Couldn't the line have just been Cloud's subconcious self?

Also Rufus: He was in the Gold Saucer getting high scores on all the machines

But really he couldn't have been too far away. Unless he was meant to be coming back that night anyway (which is possible)

 

[Roger]

Couldn't the line have just been Cloud's subconcious self?

In this final version of the game, it is. But I don't think it was intended to be because Midgar's Mako Reactor 1 IS just a normal Mako Reactor.

 

[Octo]

I guess I just thought it was a flashback - because iirc Cloud hadn't been in any mako reactors since Nibelheim and the familiar layout triggered the memory- not something relating to reactor 1 itself.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I guess I just thought it was a flashback - because iirc Cloud hadn't been in any mako reactors since Nibelheim and the familiar layout triggered the memory- not something relating to reactor 1 itself.

That's what I thought - being in the reactor triggered a flashback. It's not beyond the bounds of imagination that Zack said to him, as they were approaching the Nibelheim reactor, "Watch out! This isn't a normal reactor," since it was a malfunctioning reactor infested with monsters.

I guess what I'm asking is this: is it stated canon that subconscious Cloud is talking to Zack Cloud, or is that just what people have deduced?

 

[Shademp]

Two misconceptions, connected to one another.

1) "The SOLDIER trademark of glowing mako eyes always mean that their eyes glow green"
I long made this assumption because of associating mako with the color green (despite the many colors it may come in). But ForceStealer highlighted the fact that the glow is not specified as always being any given color.

Crisis Core shows us that Zack has blue (almost turqoise) eyes.
-- Large snapshot
I also used to think that the glow was something that randomly comes and goes, but watching this scene there is no point when Zack's eyes glow more or less.

2) "The green in Cloud's eyes, seen in AC, is the result of his mako baths and is the 'mako eyes' trademark"
People watching AC looked for the trademark SOLDIER glow, me included. Because of confusion and misconceptions around the mako eyes subject, me and others interpreted the green circle of his iris as directly related to the mako.

Upon closer inspection however, other characters like Reno, Denzel and Cid have the same green in their iris(es). I have been told that people in real life can have irises such as these. That coupled with the depiction of the mako glow in CC shows just how wrong my interpretation was of Cloud's eyes.

 

[Roger]

That's what I thought - being in the reactor triggered a flashback. It's not beyond the bounds of imagination that Zack said to him, as they were approaching the Nibelheim reactor, "Watch out! This isn't a normal reactor," since it was a malfunctioning reactor infested with monsters.

I guess what I'm asking is this: is it stated canon that subconscious Cloud is talking to Zack Cloud, or is that just what people have deduced?

Most of it surely has to be. The voice asks you to ask Tifa why they didn't meet up more five years ago at Junon. It also refers to that time you managed to get by with nothing but shaved knees. That can hardly've been a Zack flashback.

 

[Starling]

I'm pretty sure the unused dialog for the Nibelheim flashback the line at reactor 1 came from was meant to be spoken by either Zack or Sephiroth. In that context it was clearly meant to be a warning about the unusual things going on in the Nibelheim reactor, making it a flashback. As for the cases where the voice is directly addressing Cloud, is it possible that some are the real cloud and others are Zack?

The neat thing about eye color is that the iris often seems to have multiple layers of color, such as 2 slightly different shades of the same color or bits of green that offset blue or brown. I understand why people would assume the bits of green would have something to do with mako, which is generally also green and I suppose eye color would theoretically affect how apparent the glowing is but I still occasionally find people depicting brown eyed SOLDIERs, when eye color is mentioned at all. Speaking of eye color, I'm not sure if it's still prevalent but sometimes people seem to think Zack's eyes are supposed to be purple.

I'm surprised no one mentioned the misconception that First Tsurugi is in any way a canon name for either Cloud's entire sword in AC or just the main blade. You'd think Fusions Swords would've caught on more easily, even though that's not really a canon name either.

 

[Tetsujin]

"It's always night at Midgar, due to heavy pollution"

I still see this brought up sometimes even though the perpetual night is for no other reason than atmosphere, similar to Cosmo Canyon or Junon.

In fact, I can name a few instances of Midgar shown in daylight/clear night sky.

My favorite example from Crisis Core:

There's more than that and from the OG as well, of course. I had actually been pondering whether this is was worthy of its own myth debunking article.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Oh, wow, I am so guilty of that misconception!

 

[Starling]

Same. While I knew Cosmo Canyon couldn't have a perpetual sunset, I figured it wasn't that big a leap to assume the pollution that seems to cause the ground immediately surrounding midgar to appear black on the world map to also cause enough smog to at least make it perpetually overcast, if not to the point of day and night being just as indistinguishable above plate than below. I guess the issues caused by the mako reactors can't be too obvious on the upper plate if it has to be believable that most of the population is still oblivious about it.

 

[Skan]

1. Sephiroth is not a general, and SOLDIER doesn't have the typical military ranks (so also no commanders or lieutenants). If I cared enough, I would pull out every single attestation of a.) characters addressing Sephiroth and b.) characters addressing other SOLDIER members. (I cannot speak for the Japanese Compilation ofc.)

2. Angeal does not come to Zack's rescue in the prologue of CC because a rogue!Sephiroth showed up in the system. He got a phone call from Lazard informing him of Genesis's desertion. That's why he stopped the training, and that's why he shot off such an enigmatic line as he was leaving the VR room. (See Q1-2.)