- AKA
- TresDias
When you complete this run, Shad, we need to tweet it at all the FF (and associated FF developer) twitters so they see it. I can't imagine anyone else on Earth has actually done this, including the game's developers.
DCFFVII Research Thread
- Thread starter Shademp
- Start date
- AKA
- Alex T
Just wanted to say I'd totally commit myself to this challenge if Dirge ever gets ported to modern consoles, especially since 1080p/60fps captures are so accessible on PS5. Though, I wouldn't go for the swag strategies that you do haha, I'd be happy just meeting the requirements. Currently I don't have a PS2 on me and no interest in investing in a capture card, so fingers crossed SE announces an HD collection in our lifetimes.
Glad to hear it that you'd consider the challenge in an HD remaster, cold_spirit!
There is so much potential for improvements in a re-release of Dirge even without changing the fundamentals of the gameplay. One of these days I should write a more comprehensive list of such changes/additions/fixes/quality-of-life-features that would make Dirge of Cerberus a more pleasant experience even for those biased against the game.
Ideally it would be released for PC so that more people will end up playing the game with mouse and keyboard, the way it should be played.
The ultimate dream would be to see the online mode restored but intuitively that seems even less likely than the game being released with tiny fixes. Just imagine though how great it would be for TLS to have at least one of its own Units in the game...probably with me as team leader.
What should we name such a Unit? Maybe...
So much potential for team names.
Many of the Unit names from the original run were already great.
After a week when nobody plays the resurrected online mode anymore it should be possible to select AI players to complete your team and that of battling opponents, just so one could technically complete the multiplayer alone. For all that I wish to see the online multiplayer alive again I know that it would only happen on borrowed time.
There is so much potential for improvements in a re-release of Dirge even without changing the fundamentals of the gameplay. One of these days I should write a more comprehensive list of such changes/additions/fixes/quality-of-life-features that would make Dirge of Cerberus a more pleasant experience even for those biased against the game.
Ideally it would be released for PC so that more people will end up playing the game with mouse and keyboard, the way it should be played.
The ultimate dream would be to see the online mode restored but intuitively that seems even less likely than the game being released with tiny fixes. Just imagine though how great it would be for TLS to have at least one of its own Units in the game...probably with me as team leader.
What should we name such a Unit? Maybe...- TLS Champions
- Gods of Dirge
- MakoEyes420
- Please Be Excited
- The Bulletstream
- Retreating But Victorious
- xxx_Shippers69_xxx
So much potential for team names.
Many of the Unit names from the original run were already great.
DOLCE & GABBANA
new heppokodann
Team_2ch
DESTINY
ENDLESS WAR
CRIMSON'BULLET'
FlyingColumnPhalanx
SINRA
Penetrater
Handsome persons
team sky
After a week when nobody plays the resurrected online mode anymore it should be possible to select AI players to complete your team and that of battling opponents, just so one could technically complete the multiplayer alone. For all that I wish to see the online multiplayer alive again I know that it would only happen on borrowed time.
- AKA
- Ody
I think we should just steal this one, it's great.
It actually kills me that the online mode is basically FFVII lost media, along with BC and lost episode. So sad... I'd join your unit lol.
Also why did nobody tell me the Dirge Bradygame guide has a cool fold-out FFVII timeline?
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
I think that might be the first game I'd try and play online for.
Dude that post has been on public display for 5 1/2 years right in the third floor basement and behind the broken toilet door with the sign that reads 'BEWARE OF THE BEHEMOTH'
- AKA
- Ody
Excuse me for not remembering your wrong opinions lol
No shush it's not dumb it's coooooool
- AKA
- Alex T
Now I want kinda want the foldout timeline lol
Remember the foldout poster / materia fusion guide in CC's Bradygame guide? Always loved the aesthetic of that Zack render. Had that on my wall all throughout high school.
I had dialup when CC released and shared the computer with two other family members, so "looking on the internet" wasn't always a streamlined experience. Especially when I could be looking at artwork with my game advice! The CC guide was awesome.
Remember the foldout poster / materia fusion guide in CC's Bradygame guide? Always loved the aesthetic of that Zack render. Had that on my wall all throughout high school.
I had dialup when CC released and shared the computer with two other family members, so "looking on the internet" wasn't always a streamlined experience. Especially when I could be looking at artwork with my game advice! The CC guide was awesome.
..........I am stunned. Dirge of Cerberus just did the weirdest, quite unnerving effin' number glitch on me.
RECAP
When Chapter 11 was cleared, I had 19914 gil and 323 handgun bullets. You all saw it. I then converted EXP to gil so I had 50724 gil, then I bought 177 handgun bullets thus decreasing my total gil to 48954. You all saw it!
Now when I'm playing the start of Chapter 12...I only have 323 handgun bullets and my total gil has reverted back to 19914 gil. The items in my inventory matches 100% with what I had when Chapter 11 ended (including that my Elixir was used up in the Weiss battle), apart from the number of hg bullets.
The implications are worrying. How much else has not been properly updated in the memory card? What if my final scores for Chapter 11 have not been properly saved?!
I'm gonna have to do some serious deep digging here.
RECAP
When Chapter 11 was cleared, I had 19914 gil and 323 handgun bullets. You all saw it. I then converted EXP to gil so I had 50724 gil, then I bought 177 handgun bullets thus decreasing my total gil to 48954. You all saw it!
Now when I'm playing the start of Chapter 12...I only have 323 handgun bullets and my total gil has reverted back to 19914 gil. The items in my inventory matches 100% with what I had when Chapter 11 ended (including that my Elixir was used up in the Weiss battle), apart from the number of hg bullets.
The implications are worrying. How much else has not been properly updated in the memory card? What if my final scores for Chapter 11 have not been properly saved?!
I'm gonna have to do some serious deep digging here.
GOOD NEWS: My save editor showed that my stage results have been preserved. The only thing I lost was money and ammo.
I have discovered that this "Chapter 12-1" bug is unique to two versions of the game: Japanese Original and North American. The error was removed for the European/PAL edition and the second Japanese release (DCFFVII International).
What happens is that if you leave the game during Ch12-1, or enter the game from Ch12-1, any actions performed after the Chapter 11 Stage Results screen will be lost. Ch12-1 is a checkpoint entirely devoted to cutscenes. Gameplay doesn't begin until Ch12-2 which is also when the chapter title "Omega and Chaos" shows up.
No matter if you used EXP to level up Vincent or converted the EXP to gil, these actions will not have happened if you fulfill the conditions for the bug. Any and all actions performed in the shop will also not have happened. In other words this glitch only results in losses and contains no obvious exploits.
To avoid this glitch make sure that you NEVER click on the leftmost checkpoint for Chapter 12 if you are playing the North American or original Japanese release. If you are playing from Chapter 11 and have just defeated Weiss, make sure to not exit the game until you've reached Ch12-2, signaled by the title card "Omega and Chaos" showing up on the screen. A memory card icon on the top right corner of the screen will indicate that the actions in the EXP/gil- and shop screens have been saved once the Chapter 12 title shows up.
In the PAL and International versions the game saves your actions in these screens the moment that you exit the shop.
EDIT: Far as I can tell, this glitch does not manifest in other chapters that begin with cutscene-only checkpoints (see Ch2, Ch4, Ch6 and Ch9).
I have discovered that this "Chapter 12-1" bug is unique to two versions of the game: Japanese Original and North American. The error was removed for the European/PAL edition and the second Japanese release (DCFFVII International).
What happens is that if you leave the game during Ch12-1, or enter the game from Ch12-1, any actions performed after the Chapter 11 Stage Results screen will be lost. Ch12-1 is a checkpoint entirely devoted to cutscenes. Gameplay doesn't begin until Ch12-2 which is also when the chapter title "Omega and Chaos" shows up.
No matter if you used EXP to level up Vincent or converted the EXP to gil, these actions will not have happened if you fulfill the conditions for the bug. Any and all actions performed in the shop will also not have happened. In other words this glitch only results in losses and contains no obvious exploits.
To avoid this glitch make sure that you NEVER click on the leftmost checkpoint for Chapter 12 if you are playing the North American or original Japanese release. If you are playing from Chapter 11 and have just defeated Weiss, make sure to not exit the game until you've reached Ch12-2, signaled by the title card "Omega and Chaos" showing up on the screen. A memory card icon on the top right corner of the screen will indicate that the actions in the EXP/gil- and shop screens have been saved once the Chapter 12 title shows up.
In the PAL and International versions the game saves your actions in these screens the moment that you exit the shop.
EDIT: Far as I can tell, this glitch does not manifest in other chapters that begin with cutscene-only checkpoints (see Ch2, Ch4, Ch6 and Ch9).
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- AKA
- TresDias
Will this require you to replay anything for lost ammo/gil?
Thankfully, no replay will be required. There is nothing that I desperately need to buy and I'm not running a high risk of depleting the handgun bullets, even though I'll be using them to rank up the 10 Critical Hits that are needed for S rank in said category in Chapter 12. The Death Penalty can't deal critical damage so you are forced to use normal guns for at least a little bit.
But even if I had to rely on the gil and/or ammo from the end of Chapter 11, my video is already out there and I refuse to battle Weiss Empowered again. I would instead use my save editor to correct my save and give me back what I lost.
But even if I had to rely on the gil and/or ammo from the end of Chapter 11, my video is already out there and I refuse to battle Weiss Empowered again. I would instead use my save editor to correct my save and give me back what I lost.
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Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
The game is fighting back, but Shad cannot be overcome.
- AKA
- Alex T
Finally sat down and watched the Ch11 uploads. Went all out.
Is there a video of Vincent flying around the mako reactor on the back of a gargoyle?
Are you able to use limit breaks against Weiss Empowered? Does Vincent turn into Super Vincent like in the international version?
Is there a video of Vincent flying around the mako reactor on the back of a gargoyle?
Are you able to use limit breaks against Weiss Empowered? Does Vincent turn into Super Vincent like in the international version?
@cold_spirit <3 <3 <3
This video from 2007 is one of two videos I know of that includes the hitchhiking on the gargoyle's back. The second video is from 2008 and is uploaded in even worse quality than the first one. I'll try to take it upon myself this weekend and upload a high-res video showing this bit of gameplay.
In the original Japanese release you can't activate limit breaks when you are fighting Weiss Empowered, nor when you are controlling Chaos in Chapter 12. In all later releases however you can use the Limit Breaker item and activate "Super Vincent", which is the same limit break that Turk Vincent has in the tutorial mode and that online player characters had.
For those unfamiliar, this limit break makes it so that for a limited time your firing rate increases and bullets are no longer consumed. Speedrunners use the Limit Breaker to really cheese this battle against Weiss Empowered (not a single bullet is consumed in Gocu's WR) and doing the same later against Omega Weiss.
I might add commentary about limit breaks into the Ch11 Part 2 video, but while adding the subtitles I was conflicted about finding a good spot to add subtitles. Sometimes I ignore that the subtitled commentary will distract the viewer from gameplay, other times I want to let the gameplay breathe so people can enjoy it without the subtitles interrupting.
@Odysseus
That's one idea! I wonder if people feel the same that I do about the current playlist that seeing a series of bite-sized videos is less overwhelming than being presented with one singular 4-hour video. If I were to compile it into one long movie I'd prefer to make something unique out of it, like making it a voiced commentary feature where I can take the time to pause and frame-advance through certain segments. This would lengthen the video to 6-8 hours...at which point it'd be better to upload it as two movies or a trilogy.
@Clement Rage
I am, after all, the God of Dirge.
This video from 2007 is one of two videos I know of that includes the hitchhiking on the gargoyle's back. The second video is from 2008 and is uploaded in even worse quality than the first one. I'll try to take it upon myself this weekend and upload a high-res video showing this bit of gameplay.
In the original Japanese release you can't activate limit breaks when you are fighting Weiss Empowered, nor when you are controlling Chaos in Chapter 12. In all later releases however you can use the Limit Breaker item and activate "Super Vincent", which is the same limit break that Turk Vincent has in the tutorial mode and that online player characters had.
For those unfamiliar, this limit break makes it so that for a limited time your firing rate increases and bullets are no longer consumed. Speedrunners use the Limit Breaker to really cheese this battle against Weiss Empowered (not a single bullet is consumed in Gocu's WR) and doing the same later against Omega Weiss.
I might add commentary about limit breaks into the Ch11 Part 2 video, but while adding the subtitles I was conflicted about finding a good spot to add subtitles. Sometimes I ignore that the subtitled commentary will distract the viewer from gameplay, other times I want to let the gameplay breathe so people can enjoy it without the subtitles interrupting.
@Odysseus
That's one idea! I wonder if people feel the same that I do about the current playlist that seeing a series of bite-sized videos is less overwhelming than being presented with one singular 4-hour video. If I were to compile it into one long movie I'd prefer to make something unique out of it, like making it a voiced commentary feature where I can take the time to pause and frame-advance through certain segments. This would lengthen the video to 6-8 hours...at which point it'd be better to upload it as two movies or a trilogy.
@Clement Rage
I am, after all, the God of Dirge.
- AKA
- Ody
I'd watch it lolIf I were to compile it into one long movie I'd prefer to make something unique out of it, like making it a voiced commentary feature where I can take the time to pause and frame-advance through certain segments. This would lengthen the video to 6-8 hours...at which point it'd be better to upload it as two movies or a trilogy.
- AKA
- Alex T
Thanks for the video link, it gave me more questions than answers haha. Can you kill the gargoyle while riding it? What happens if so? Do those gargoyles behind the reactor join the fight later? Or maybe the developers knew about this trick and placed them there for fun?
Regardless, I love it. I want a fan art of Vincent riding a gargoyle right now lol
Regardless, I love it. I want a fan art of Vincent riding a gargoyle right now lol
The gargoyle may only take damage if you are currently above the bridge where the boss battle normally takes place. Once you are flying beyond the bridge, the gargoyle can no longer take any damage and it is impossible to get thrown off.
They never join the fight. The gargoyle that flies above the bridge is an enemy that respawns indefinitely so long as the Dragonfly PT battle is going on (same with the red saucer bot).
The developers definitely knew about this trick. The behavior is too unique and too regular to be a glitch. During battle, the gargoyle flies back and forth the bridge in a kind of zig-zag pattern, never straying far from the bridge and definitely never performing a complete revolution around the mako reactor.
Yet for some reason this enemy changes its behavior when you stand on top of it, revealing hidden enemies behind the reactor. I have to assume that this was all intended because it's just too intricate and clean. I am yet to be able to trigger a game-breaking bug when going on the Gargoyle Express. Honestly I'm surprised that I'm yet to fall out of bounds when I revisit this easter egg.
There are a total of five stationary gargoyles hovering around the mako reactor, only two of which are visible while you still stand on the bridge. I believe their inclusion is just another way to add to your "Targets Destroyed" score and help you along with a higher ranking. Chapter 11 is designed so that you need to consciously trigger lots of enemies or else you won't get S rank in said category.
Additional behavior while on the ride (and not positioned above the bridge) :
- Jumping is disabled
- Galian Beast's ground pound may not be performed
- Vincent doesn't get knocked over from missiles (but still receives the damage)
To be honest, I have never heard the term "Super Vincent" to describe this particular limit break until @cold_spirit wrote it today.
I, too, approve of this naming convention.
I, too, approve of this naming convention.
The official JP guide refers to Chapter 12 as two chapters: Ch12-1 and Ch12-2.
Ch12-1 ends with Chaos Vincent flying into Omega's spirit realm and the player is ranked for their performance during the chapter. This is the final chapter-specific ranking.
This then begins with Ch12-2 where you strike down the Crystal Feelers, quickly destroy the Omega Cocoon and finally face Omega Weiss after which you are presented with your Cumulative Results.
For that reason when referring to the first checkpoint it will from now on be called Ch12-1-1, the second checkpoint will be called Ch12-1-2 and so forth. Same deal as back in Chapter 8 which was also two chapters: Ch8-1 (Train Graveyard) and Ch8-2 (Central Complex).
Yes, I have sinned and sometimes named checkpoints for Ch8 and Ch12 inconsistently over the years, sometimes writing Ch12-2 when I mean Ch12-1-2 and Ch8-2 when I mean Ch8-1-2.
I have now completed Ch12-1-2! My Critical Hits count was 9 at the end. I've definitely had runs where I ended with 12 critical hits (and sometimes a few more than that) thus already fulfilling the S rank requirement of at least 10 critical hits. But I was able to perform swag moves in other respects, so I am content with the final recorded segment. There'll be plenty of chances to increase my critical hits count in Ch12-1-3.
Perfecting Chapter 12 feels a lot like trying to perfect Stage 4 in Kid Icarus: You are overpowered, there isn't much to explore and usually nothing left to do score-wise (unless you're having trouble getting your heart counter to 999 before the end). You're just enjoying the final victory flight.
While testing out Ch12-1 I pondered to myself "What can I do to make this interesting? What arbitrary challenges can I impose on myself?"
My conclusions:
- 100% accuracy rate (AR)
- Destroy every single target
- Receive zero damage
- Achieve maximum possible killchain count
Standard pride alone would already necessitate 100% AR because of how easy the stage is but the rest is a bit trickier.
Veteran players might also *think* that they've destroyed every target in Ch12-1 but in fact they have not, as I will explain in detail in my next post.
Avoiding damage is 50% luck and 50% fast gunning, so many retries are still needed to achieve a zero damage run of Ch12-1.
Maintaining the killchain throughout each section requires a lot of planning but it definitely made Chapter 12-1-2 way more interesting than it has ever been for me. I'm halfway through planning Ch12-1-3 at this point. In the post-JORG releases you can destroy the orbs fired by the Omega Leaf and indefinitely up your killchain that way, but in the original Japanese release there is no way to destroy those projectiles so there is definitely a cap on how many killchains you can build up in that version.
It remains true that a lot of fun derived from Dirge of Cerberus is that which you make yourself via arbitrary restrictions and challenges.
One thing that surprised me when testing the waters for critical hits was just how small the weak spot of Omega Bud and Omega Leaf is. For several hours I assumed that, at least for the Omega Bud, since the target itself is huge then the weak spot must also be huge. When I was unable to consistently score critical hits I did eventually let go of my assumption and finally realize just how small the weak spot is.
Using the Sniper Scope in this situation is quite useful, especially if the Omega Bud is far away.
The Omega Leaf is too difficult for me to attack with handgun bullets. Half the time I hit the shield and only rarely am I able to score a critical hit. Its weak spot is very tiny, similar to Omega Bud, but even knowing the weak spot did not help me in regularly damaging it. The Omega Leaf's hit box construction is just too weird for me, so I am fine with only using Death Penalty on this foe.
Ch12-1 ends with Chaos Vincent flying into Omega's spirit realm and the player is ranked for their performance during the chapter. This is the final chapter-specific ranking.
This then begins with Ch12-2 where you strike down the Crystal Feelers, quickly destroy the Omega Cocoon and finally face Omega Weiss after which you are presented with your Cumulative Results.
For that reason when referring to the first checkpoint it will from now on be called Ch12-1-1, the second checkpoint will be called Ch12-1-2 and so forth. Same deal as back in Chapter 8 which was also two chapters: Ch8-1 (Train Graveyard) and Ch8-2 (Central Complex).
Yes, I have sinned and sometimes named checkpoints for Ch8 and Ch12 inconsistently over the years, sometimes writing Ch12-2 when I mean Ch12-1-2 and Ch8-2 when I mean Ch8-1-2.
I have now completed Ch12-1-2! My Critical Hits count was 9 at the end. I've definitely had runs where I ended with 12 critical hits (and sometimes a few more than that) thus already fulfilling the S rank requirement of at least 10 critical hits. But I was able to perform swag moves in other respects, so I am content with the final recorded segment. There'll be plenty of chances to increase my critical hits count in Ch12-1-3.
Perfecting Chapter 12 feels a lot like trying to perfect Stage 4 in Kid Icarus: You are overpowered, there isn't much to explore and usually nothing left to do score-wise (unless you're having trouble getting your heart counter to 999 before the end). You're just enjoying the final victory flight.
While testing out Ch12-1 I pondered to myself "What can I do to make this interesting? What arbitrary challenges can I impose on myself?"
My conclusions:
- 100% accuracy rate (AR)
- Destroy every single target
- Receive zero damage
- Achieve maximum possible killchain count
Standard pride alone would already necessitate 100% AR because of how easy the stage is but the rest is a bit trickier.
Veteran players might also *think* that they've destroyed every target in Ch12-1 but in fact they have not, as I will explain in detail in my next post.
Avoiding damage is 50% luck and 50% fast gunning, so many retries are still needed to achieve a zero damage run of Ch12-1.
Maintaining the killchain throughout each section requires a lot of planning but it definitely made Chapter 12-1-2 way more interesting than it has ever been for me. I'm halfway through planning Ch12-1-3 at this point. In the post-JORG releases you can destroy the orbs fired by the Omega Leaf and indefinitely up your killchain that way, but in the original Japanese release there is no way to destroy those projectiles so there is definitely a cap on how many killchains you can build up in that version.
It remains true that a lot of fun derived from Dirge of Cerberus is that which you make yourself via arbitrary restrictions and challenges.
One thing that surprised me when testing the waters for critical hits was just how small the weak spot of Omega Bud and Omega Leaf is. For several hours I assumed that, at least for the Omega Bud, since the target itself is huge then the weak spot must also be huge. When I was unable to consistently score critical hits I did eventually let go of my assumption and finally realize just how small the weak spot is.
Using the Sniper Scope in this situation is quite useful, especially if the Omega Bud is far away.
The Omega Leaf is too difficult for me to attack with handgun bullets. Half the time I hit the shield and only rarely am I able to score a critical hit. Its weak spot is very tiny, similar to Omega Bud, but even knowing the weak spot did not help me in regularly damaging it. The Omega Leaf's hit box construction is just too weird for me, so I am fine with only using Death Penalty on this foe.
It happens all the time in Dirge of Cerberus that I am performing strategies and doing research that, by all likelihood, no player has done before me. Yet Chapter 12 evokes that sensation of "the new" and "treading unique ground" more than most spots in the game.
Ch12-1-3 is a prime example. It starts off with a 25-second on-rails shooter segment where we "fly" as Chaos through Omega's interior. There is no way to look behind you or control Vincent's position. All you can do is change, to a limited degree, where your gun is aiming. These 25 seconds pass by in a flash and you'll have no trouble clearing it with zero damage so long as your gunning is fast and true. This segment will leave the player's mind about as quickly as it entered.
What have I learned about this tunnel?
- Each Omega Bud has 1500 HP. More commonly in Chapter 12 the Omega Buds have 2000 HP each which also happens to be exactly the amount of damage that Death Penalty dishes out.
- A maximum of two Omega Buds hover in front of Chaos at any given time. The flight begins with two Omega Buds already in front of you.
- A total of eight Omega Buds may spawn and fly ahead of Chaos throughout this segment.
- Each Omega Bud is set to spawn at a given interval during the 25-second flight. If you take too long to defeat the Omega Buds in front of you, then the Omega Bud of a given interval will not spawn.
- From the start of the level there are three Omega Buds behind Chaos. These will NEVER fly ahead of Chaos to reveal themselves. Their lasers are unlikely to strike you, as they were probably placed behind Chaos just to add more flashy lasers blazing throughout the stage.
- The only way to strike these Omega Buds is to use Blizzard magic. The Blizzard magic travels slower than Chaos Vincent, so the magic will fall behind and then hit one or two of the hidden Omega Buds if you're lucky. I have so far not managed to strike all three Omega Buds in one fell swoop.
- If you have an active 1-chain then you can instakill one or more of these Omega Buds with Blizzard Lv1. If you have no active killchain then you must use Blizzard Lv3 if you are to one-shot an Omega Bud.
- In total there are thus 8 + 3 = 11 Omega Buds in this on-rails shooter. Each Omega Bud has a unique spot in memory, with their own HP counter, and is thus not a case of the same enemy having their HP restored and then getting respawned to the field.
These three elusive Omega Buds are what I referred to in my previous post.
Countless players have easily managed to defeat all 8 front-hovering Omega Buds, but how many may have ever bothered to figure out that you can damage the hidden ones behind you? Maybe a handful of people have fired off Blizzard shots for fun and accidentally hit one of the back-hovering Omega Buds, though they probably figured that all they did was perform an early kill of an Omega Bud that was already in a cue to enter the front (which is certainly a thing that can happen if two Omega Buds aren't currently in the front).
Visualization of the Ch12-1-3 flight tunnel and how the Omega Buds spawn. The tunnel curves in-game but has been simplified to a straight line in the image below:
Because you are firing blind shots it is extremely luck-based if you can manage to defeat the three Omega Buds hidden behind you. If you spam Blizzard you are likely to strike one or even two of them but defeating all three is rare. I have however confirmed in both emulator and in real-time action that it is possible to achieve the result I want: Defeat all 11 Omega Buds and achieve a 10-killchain.
Back when I was fighting Weiss Empowered I was intent on using an Elixir regardless of outcome because I wasn't sure yet if I would end up using magic for Chapter 12. I had to restore Vincent to full MP just in case. The final chapter has no mako points and if you use even a single restorative item then you will lose the S rank for "Items Used". I was disappointed when I found no useful exploits for Thunder Lv3 (or Fire magic for that matter) even with all the killchains I build up.
As it turns out, Ch12-1-3 is where my MP preparation pays off. Because I effectively don't have a killchain, I will always start off by firing Blizzard Lv3 as this is my only way to one-shot the Omega Buds with Blizzard without a damage boost. This Blizzard Lv3 shot is pretty likely to hit one or two of the hidden, back-hovering Omega Buds. When the time is right I will then spam Blizzard Lv1 until I run out of enough MP and pray that it hits the final secret Omega Bud while I still have an active killchain.
THIS CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED! It is by no means required for S rank. I would still end Chapter 12-1 with plenty of room to spare for the categories "Targets Destroyed" and "Killchains". But I have set up the aforementioned arbitrary challenge that I must defeat every available target and max out my killchains...so this is the only path for me to tread.
Of course life isn't easy and even when I do manage to get the 10-chain in this flight section...I am likely to receive damage in the next room and thus render my run FAILED, since I am aiming for zero damage. Boy oh boy. The price of making-things-needlessly-difficult-for-you is steep.
I already know that Ch12-1-3 has at least three unused Omega Leaf enemies in memory (assuming they aren't restricted to Easy or Normal mode, I haven't checked). Hopefully these are entirely unused and not a case of needlessly obscure flag triggers that need to be nudged in order to unlock those enemies.
Ch12-1-3 is a prime example. It starts off with a 25-second on-rails shooter segment where we "fly" as Chaos through Omega's interior. There is no way to look behind you or control Vincent's position. All you can do is change, to a limited degree, where your gun is aiming. These 25 seconds pass by in a flash and you'll have no trouble clearing it with zero damage so long as your gunning is fast and true. This segment will leave the player's mind about as quickly as it entered.
What have I learned about this tunnel?
- Each Omega Bud has 1500 HP. More commonly in Chapter 12 the Omega Buds have 2000 HP each which also happens to be exactly the amount of damage that Death Penalty dishes out.
- A maximum of two Omega Buds hover in front of Chaos at any given time. The flight begins with two Omega Buds already in front of you.
- A total of eight Omega Buds may spawn and fly ahead of Chaos throughout this segment.
- Each Omega Bud is set to spawn at a given interval during the 25-second flight. If you take too long to defeat the Omega Buds in front of you, then the Omega Bud of a given interval will not spawn.
- From the start of the level there are three Omega Buds behind Chaos. These will NEVER fly ahead of Chaos to reveal themselves. Their lasers are unlikely to strike you, as they were probably placed behind Chaos just to add more flashy lasers blazing throughout the stage.
- The only way to strike these Omega Buds is to use Blizzard magic. The Blizzard magic travels slower than Chaos Vincent, so the magic will fall behind and then hit one or two of the hidden Omega Buds if you're lucky. I have so far not managed to strike all three Omega Buds in one fell swoop.
- If you have an active 1-chain then you can instakill one or more of these Omega Buds with Blizzard Lv1. If you have no active killchain then you must use Blizzard Lv3 if you are to one-shot an Omega Bud.
- In total there are thus 8 + 3 = 11 Omega Buds in this on-rails shooter. Each Omega Bud has a unique spot in memory, with their own HP counter, and is thus not a case of the same enemy having their HP restored and then getting respawned to the field.
These three elusive Omega Buds are what I referred to in my previous post.
Shademp said:
Countless players have easily managed to defeat all 8 front-hovering Omega Buds, but how many may have ever bothered to figure out that you can damage the hidden ones behind you? Maybe a handful of people have fired off Blizzard shots for fun and accidentally hit one of the back-hovering Omega Buds, though they probably figured that all they did was perform an early kill of an Omega Bud that was already in a cue to enter the front (which is certainly a thing that can happen if two Omega Buds aren't currently in the front).
Visualization of the Ch12-1-3 flight tunnel and how the Omega Buds spawn. The tunnel curves in-game but has been simplified to a straight line in the image below:
Because you are firing blind shots it is extremely luck-based if you can manage to defeat the three Omega Buds hidden behind you. If you spam Blizzard you are likely to strike one or even two of them but defeating all three is rare. I have however confirmed in both emulator and in real-time action that it is possible to achieve the result I want: Defeat all 11 Omega Buds and achieve a 10-killchain.
Back when I was fighting Weiss Empowered I was intent on using an Elixir regardless of outcome because I wasn't sure yet if I would end up using magic for Chapter 12. I had to restore Vincent to full MP just in case. The final chapter has no mako points and if you use even a single restorative item then you will lose the S rank for "Items Used". I was disappointed when I found no useful exploits for Thunder Lv3 (or Fire magic for that matter) even with all the killchains I build up.
As it turns out, Ch12-1-3 is where my MP preparation pays off. Because I effectively don't have a killchain, I will always start off by firing Blizzard Lv3 as this is my only way to one-shot the Omega Buds with Blizzard without a damage boost. This Blizzard Lv3 shot is pretty likely to hit one or two of the hidden, back-hovering Omega Buds. When the time is right I will then spam Blizzard Lv1 until I run out of enough MP and pray that it hits the final secret Omega Bud while I still have an active killchain.
THIS CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED! It is by no means required for S rank. I would still end Chapter 12-1 with plenty of room to spare for the categories "Targets Destroyed" and "Killchains". But I have set up the aforementioned arbitrary challenge that I must defeat every available target and max out my killchains...so this is the only path for me to tread.
Of course life isn't easy and even when I do manage to get the 10-chain in this flight section...I am likely to receive damage in the next room and thus render my run FAILED, since I am aiming for zero damage.
Boy oh boy. The price of making-things-needlessly-difficult-for-you is steep.I already know that Ch12-1-3 has at least three unused Omega Leaf enemies in memory (assuming they aren't restricted to Easy or Normal mode, I haven't checked). Hopefully these are entirely unused and not a case of needlessly obscure flag triggers that need to be nudged in order to unlock those enemies.
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- AKA
- hitoshura
seeing all this makes me wonder what other little things you can find out about any game
and now i have to keep listening to longing on repeat
and now i have to keep listening to longing on repeat