Did Hojo manipulate Lucrecia? [split from Repository of Debunked Rumors]

[Obsidian Fire]

Has Chiba been involved in the remake yet at all? I'm wondering if he's going to write Vincent's scenes again.

He hasn't been yet. Chiba also was *heavily* involved with making Gold Saucer is what it was. So... I could see him maybe coming back for that as well.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

It's a bit of a shame that they take the trouble to bring out these Ultimanias and yet don't use the opportunity to clear up ambiguities such as "Was Lucrecia pregnant or not in that scene?"

 

[Roundhouse]

A few observations on that scene I linked...

- Hojo sounds like he is about 50 there for some reason.

- Hojo treats Vincent like he is an utter buffoon and a joke, which is oddly funny.

- Lucretia's anger comes across as really odd, possibly because I'm missing context. Honestly, to me it sounds like she might be silently 'asking' Vincent to say or do...something? 'Am I SURE? If this only concerns ME, then yes, I am sure'. I dunno, it's a strange line, to be honest. I'll have to watch the other scenes to make more sense of it, because it comes across as....odd, like something is going on between the lines.

- Vincent is such a dithering softy. He must have been a bad Turk. It also makes him even more of a Tim Burton protagonist than I thought.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It's a bit of a shame that they take the trouble to bring out these Ultimanias and yet don't use the opportunity to clear up ambiguities such as "Was Lucrecia pregnant or not in that scene?"

Is it not providing clarity, though? "This thing happened 25-30 years ago, and this other thing happened about 23 years ago" reads as straightforward to me.

Lucretia's anger comes across as really odd, possibly because I'm missing context. Honestly, to me it sounds like she might be silently 'asking' Vincent to say or do...something? 'Am I SURE? If this only concerns ME, then yes, I am sure'. I dunno, it's a strange line, to be honest. I'll have to watch the other scenes to make more sense of it, because it comes across as....odd, like something is going on between the lines.

I don't really know. All I know is we see her being nice to, romantic towards, etc. Vincent -- and then she's treating him like bubblegum on her shoe after he knows her secret. Like that's supposed to be his fucking fault or something.

What a fucking psycho.

 

[ForceStealer]

As I say I feel like it just means she thinks it's about more than her, so her "sureness" isn't as important as Vincent implied it was by his question. Like he's focusing solely on her rather than the big picture (the return of the abilities of the Ancients to the world).

 

[Roundhouse]

@Clement Rage raises an interesting possibility here: https://thelifestream.net/forums/threads/lucrecias-characterization-and-depiction.18960/post-710479

 

[ForceStealer]

Well clearly our positions haven't changed in the last 5 years

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Lucretia's anger comes across as really odd, possibly because I'm missing context. Honestly, to me it sounds like she might be silently 'asking' Vincent to say or do...something? 'Am I SURE? If this only concerns ME, then yes, I am sure'. I dunno, it's a strange line, to be honest. I'll have to watch the other scenes to make more sense of it, because it comes across as....odd, like something is going on between the lines.

Japanese plays this *very* differently. That exchange with Vincent isn't even *about* the Project itself. It's instead about Vincent's relationship with Lucrecia at that point in time. Which is that Lucrecia is now with Hojo and not in a relationship with Vincent.

She's not so much saying that the Project concerns *only* her... she's saying that it shouldn't concern *Vincent*. Because he's not her boyfriend anymore. And he just used a Japanese pronoun to refer to her that is really only used between significant others. And Vincent and Lucrecia aren't that anymore. So it's not "this project *only* concerns me and no one else". It's more, "Who are you to call me your girlfriend? I'm not, so the choices I make about myself aren't something you can be concerned with anymore!".

The subject of her outburst isn't the *nature* the Project at all... it's about Vincent's and Lucrecia's relationship and how much Vincent should or shouldn't be interested in her now that their (romantic) relationship is over.

Which... has some really interesting connotations if you look at Lucrecia's body language across the entire scene. She doesn't even want to *look* at Hojo when he's talking about the Project. So you kinda wonder if this isn't just for *Vincent* that she's saying this, but to convince *herself* that is what happened. She doesn't even look at Vincent either until he calls her his SO. And then has her "Don't call me that; if this is about me, stay out of this!" tirade at him.

Actually... Cae came through and re-translated that scene from the JP. The differences... are interesting. One of the things English messed up on is that Lucrecia is *already* pregnant with Sephiroth by this point... and Vincent knows that already.

Vincent
Is it true?

[Hojo]
Is "what" true?

Vincent
I've just heard that you want Lucrecia... Dr. Lucrecia to be involved in this Project.

Lucrecia
It's true, does it matter?

Vincent
I can't believe you're going to use the baby you're carrying... for an experiment...

[Hojo]
Ha! I don't know what you're insinuating, she and I are both scientists! Besides, this is our problem, outsiders like you have no business being involved. Right?

Vincent
No...

Lucrecia
What?

Vincent
.........

Lucrecia
If you have something to say, just say it.

Vincent
So then... are y-you really, are-

Lucrecia
What do you mean by "are you"! What about "me"? If this is just about me, then its none of your business!

Vincent
Oh... but... I thought...

And the JP he started with...

ヴィンセント: 本当なのか？

[宝条]: 何がだ？

ヴィンセント : 今回のプロジェクトにルクレツィア…… ルクレツィア博士をと聞いたんだが

ルクレツィア: 本当よ

ルクレツィア: それがどうかしたの?

ヴィンセント: お腹の赤ん坊を……実験に使うなんて…

[宝条]: はっ、お前が何を言いたいのかしらんが、彼女も私も科学者だ

[宝条]: それに、これは私たちの問題だ。部外者は口を出さんでもらおうか?

ヴィンセント: いや…….

ルクレツィア: 何？

ヴィンセント: …….

ルクレツィア: いいたいことがあるならハッキリいって

ヴィンセント : だから…… 君は、君は本当に、それで…

ルクレツィア: なんで《君は》なのよ！ 私？ 私だけの問題ならあなたには関係ない!

ヴィンセント : あっ……そう……私には…

Also, Ultimanias to come out after Dirge's release (and which cover its details) still cite the 23 years thing for Vincent's almost-death and 25-30 for Seph's birth.

Err... the 10th Anniversary Ultimania still has Vincent's almost-death happening 25-30 years before the OG... And that came out after DoC

And our own site actually translated into English... Vincent Valentine Character Profile p.68-71

[ Approx. 25~30 years before FFVII ]

(Age 20’s)

· FFVII/DC – Nibelhiem
Worked as a member of the ShinRa Works (later the ShinRa Company) Turks. He was sent to the ShinRa Manor to act as a guard for the researchers and there he met Lucrecia.

· FFVII/DC – Nibelhiem
After growing close to Lucrecia he proposed to her, but she rejected him.

(Age 27)

· FFVII/DC – Nibelhiem
Hojo attacked him and experiments on his body, eventually leaving him on the brink of death, and Lucrecia revived him by embedding Chaos inside of him. Thinking that the transformation of his flesh was his punishment, he went to sleep inside a coffin in the ShinRa Mansion basement.

So yeah, Vincent was 27 when he was shot at Nibelheim approximately 25-30 years before the OG starts... the same window we have for Sephiroth's birth. It's very possible it happened *before* Sephiroth's birth as opposed to after it.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Err... the 10th Anniversary Ultimania still has Vincent's almost-death happening 25-30 years before the OG... And that came out after DoC

It definitely has his assignment to the job in Nibelheim occuring 25-30 years ago, but mathematically still places his almost-death as approximately 23 years ago.

That timeline in his profile designates his birth "approximately 50 years ago" and then has his almost-death occurring when he's 27. Fifty minus 27 is 23. This is in keeping with the Ultimania Omega's multiple citations that outright use "approximately 23 years ago."

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

"23 years ago" may be the canon number, but can I introduce a new concept here? It's an unimportant detail. Unless and until the developers show us that something crucially important happened during those seven years between Sephiroh being born and Vincent shot, then there's no reason for that space of time and dramatically it's dead space. What were Vincent and Lurecia doing all that time? Standing eith their noses pressed against Sephiroth's nursery window? Seven years needs an explanation.

Maybe the developers are planning to give us one. Since they're so insistent on the seven years, maybe they have something up their sleeve. Maybe Lucrecia and Vincent fled together and had all sorts of adventures before deciding to come back for Sephiroth.

Otherwise, leaving it seven years before Vincent decides to confront is a severe anti-climax. It would be like Oedipus and Jocasta discovering they're mother and son, and Jocasta waiting seven years to react by hanging herself. Or Othello being tricked into believing Desdemona is unfaithful to him and sitting in a corner for seven years mulling it over.

Even two years is a very long time for people to just... do nothing. (Although doing nothing is what Vincent is best at).

Whether Hojo shoots Vincent while Lucrecia is pregnant, or shortly after she gives birth, or two years later, or seven, it makes no difference to our understanding of the act, because absolutely nothing has changed or happened in these people's lives, as far as we currently know.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Again... our own site has translated this when it comes to the Timeline...

[ Approx. 25~30 years before FFVII ]

(Age 20’s)

· FFVII/DC – Nibelhiem
Worked as a member of the ShinRa Works (later the ShinRa Company) Turks. He was sent to the ShinRa Manor to act as a guard for the researchers and there he met Lucrecia.

· FFVII/DC – Nibelhiem
After growing close to Lucrecia he proposed to her, but she rejected him.

(Age 27)

· FFVII/DC – Nibelhiem
Hojo attacked him and experiments on his body, eventually leaving him on the brink of death, and Lucrecia revived him by embedding Chaos inside of him. Thinking that the transformation of his flesh was his punishment, he went to sleep inside a coffin in the ShinRa Mansion basement.

The first thing to say is that we *do not* have a birth year for Vincent. We legit don't know exactly how old he actually is at the time of the OG. All we know is that he was 27 when Hojo shoots him and Vincent stops aging. But the shooting takes place in the 25-30 year time-span before the OG starts (1975-1980). Also in that timespan, Sephiroth is born. How far apart from when Vincent is shot, we don't know. We do know that Gast disappears from Shinra in 1980 though, so Sephiroth *has* to be born before then. There's no reason the timing of Vincent's Shooting doesn't line up with Sephiroth's birth as far as the latest timeline is concerned. The only place I can find mention of Vincent being shot *23* years before the OG starts is in the Ultimania Omega... which is then reconnected two years later by the 10th Anniversary Ultimania which changed it to being in the 25-30 years before the OG time-span.

DoC does make it... very fuzzy... as to when Lucrecia actually gives birth vs when Hojo shoots Vincent. However, the fact that Lucrecia looks as shocked as she does when Hojo shoots Vincent leads me to think she's still pregnant with Sephiroth then. That she doesn't know that Hojo will take Sephiroth away from her yet. Given how she screams at Hojo to give Sephiroth back later... I'd think we'd see her asking Hojo for Sephiroth much earlier in Vincent's experiments rather than being so... detracted... with the experiments.

What we also don't have is any ballpark for when Lucrecia finally left Shinra Mansion. We just know it was after Sephiroth was born. Could be after a week, could be after a day, could be after a year. We just don't know *when* she left.

Now when it comes to *why* she left...

Me and CL went digging into the 10th Anniversary Ultimania and found out Lucrecia has a profile there. That no one seems to have translated yet...

The Woman Scientist who changed the fate of Father & Son Valentine
LUCRECIA CRESCENT

PROFILE
Appearance: "FFVII", "DC”
Gender: Female
Height: 163cm
Blood Type: B
Date of Birth: 7/22
Pronoun: "Watashi”
Voice actor: [DC] Rio Natsuki (JP)
[DC] April Stewart (ENG)

Lucrecia Crescent
Lucrecia Crescent was a former Class-A Researcher in the Shinra Research & Development Division who studied the cycle of life of the Planet. After working as an assistant to Vincent's father, Dr. Grimoire, she joined the Jenova Project. She became close to Vincent, who was her bodyguard, but she rejected his proposal of marriage and joined Hojo, offering herself and her unborn child (Sephiroth) to him for experiments. After the birth of her son, she became physically and mentally unstable and retreated to a cave in the mountains, where she sealed herself in a crystal and continued to worry about her son's safety.

←Lucrecia, a beautiful scientist from Shinra, left a strong impression on the young Vincent as a woman he would never forget.

↑Because of the Jenova Cells inside her body, she is unable to die, and remains alive and conscious inside her crystal.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"I didn't want to remember... I didn't want to face the truth... I pushed you away, but..."

COMPILATION CHECK
A Scientist's and Woman's Heart in Turmoil

Even though Lucrecia had grown close to Vincent, she accepted Hojo's courtship instead of his. But when Vincent nearly loses his life because of her husband, Lucrecia does everything she can to save him, even though she doesn't know why. Why is that, exactly? Perhaps she was attracted to Vincent. However, she had denied her feelings because she felt guilty for causing the death of her boss, Grimoire, and felt that she did not deserve to be happy with his son, Vincent. Perhaps the reason why she got together with Hojo was to cover up her feelings. Also, as Hojo points out in "DC," she may have had a desire as a scientist to "prove her hypothesis".

←She harbors a deep-seated admiration for Grimoire, but his death is attributed to her experiments. While she was suffering from guilt, Vincent appeared.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"I can never hold my child…、I can't even tell him I'm his mother.…… that is my sin to bear………"

 

[Makoeyes987]

Wow, thanks for translating that @Cae Lumis !

That's very interesting. Back in the day that profile didn't pique anyone's interest given it's brevity, but that Compilation Check is interesting given this thread's subject

It confirms that Lucrecia's decision to marry Hojo was her own, no manipulation necessary. However, it also confirms that her rejection of Vincent and decision to be with Hojo stems from guilt and awkwardness of having indirectly caused Grimoire's death. She felt she didn't deserve to be happy with Vincent who she was attracted to.

It also implies she wanted to save Vincent because of those feelings, which is admittedly not surprising. What is surprising is that Hojo was partially right about her wanting to prove her hypothesis

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I suspect Hojo understood Lucrecia very well.... until she went 'off the rails' and started getting all wierdly maternal about 'her' baby.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Again... our own site has translated this when it comes to the Timeline...

I know that, silly. I have the book and am one of those who worked on the site's timeline pages. Compare the "25-30 years" label in Vincent's profile to the one in Sephiroth's, though:

Those labels just apply to the markers they're pointing to directly underneath. The book's designers used a fugly formatting that left a lot to be desired in terms of easily replicating its layout on a timeline that just orders things as a simple list. An indeterminate amount of time can lay between one of these dated labels and the next label with a date, with there then being markers along the way for events that fall between both and are covered by neither.

In this case, we have a marker for Seph that almost certainly lay outside the 25-30 years on the preceding marker, and little to no reason to doubt the same is true for Vincent's "27 years old" marker. Sephiroth's "floating marker" says ソルジャー・クラス1STとして活躍。英雄的存在になる。("Active as a SOLDIER 1st Class. Becomes a heroic figure.")

I expect we can all agree that, loose as the ethical standards of VII's shithole world are, Shin-Ra probably wasn't marketing their elite warrior program with a toddler.

... the shooting takes place in the 25-30 year time-span before the OG starts (1975-1980)

That should be 1977-1982, yeah?

It confirms that Lucrecia's decision to marry Hojo was her own, no manipulation necessary.

"I care about you and your well-being" from someone who doesn't is never not going to be manipulation. You'll never not be wrong about this. =P

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Just because he didn't care about her and her well-being by the time Sephiroth was born, it doesn't follow that he never cared about her.

Lucrecia: I didn't mean for your father to die. I couldn't... I'm so sorry.
[She starts to cry and runs away; Vincent just stands there]
Vincent: But I never blamed her. All I wanted was to see her smiling face.
Vincent: But after that day, the light left her heart.
[The camera pans away from Vincent. We see Lucrecia facing Hojo, as a light shines on him]
Hojo: So you've come to your senses and chosen me.
Lucrecia: Yes, doctor.
[She hugs him]
Vincent: However, if she is happy, then I don't mind.
[Fade out on Lucrecia and Hojo embracing, and Vincent standing around like the lonely sorry bastard he is]

(I used this version of the script because I love the transcriber's asides)

There just isn't enough here to build an interpretation of a whole relationship on. Maybe they get off on calling each other "Doctor". Maybe he really does think she's come to her senses after a kind of madness and is now back to being her true self. For someone who prides himself on being logical, this could be his love language. You can't really expect him to say, "Darling, I adore you, you've made me the happiest man alive." That would be completely out of character for him.

You can't take that line and use it as proof that he only saw her as a human test tube and ergo must have manipulated her into marrying him. "You've come to your senses and chosen me," isn't a line that excludes any possibility of the same character saying, "I care about you," and meaning it. Apart from anything else, Hojo is NOT faking emotions in the scene quoted above, so what evidence do we have to suggest he ever did that? Or was capable of it even if he wanted to?

Look, maybe Hojo realised she didn't love him the way he loved her. Maybe he realised she was using him both emotionally and professionally (which she was). Obviously their relationship was doomed from the start, but they're as guilty as each other. That's how it usually pans out when relationships break down.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I was just replying to Mako's reasoning about what constitutes manipulation. For me, going off the information we've been provided, there's no question of whether false pretense was involved in the decision making, so that takes all the "maybe" out of the equation -- as far as I'm concerned anyway.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Lucretia was just a really crazy bitch, like she is mental

 

[Clement Rage]

We don't get a lot of information, so most of this is headcanons. A lot of the disgust for Lucrecia is that we've seen what Hojo has done with the rest of his life... but Lucrecia can't know that before it happens. We also know what happened with Sephiroth in the end, where Lucrecia does not.

Anything that happens after Sephiroth is born is inadmissable evidence here.

Months and years pass between the flashbacks in Dirge, a lot happens between them, it's not like Lucrecia is switching attitudes on a dime.

It's always interesting what fandoms find forgiveable and not forgiveable. Fandom likes to assume Gast is a standup guy, but the JENOVA project was his idea in the first place. Cloud has angst over his failures, which led to many deaths, but a good chunk of the fandom reacts with 'get over it' even though he is terminally ill and gets frequent spasms of pain powerful enough to knock him unconscious.

Ultimately,we don't know enough, everyone is just making stuff up to support their preferred conclusions.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I mean, I don't think Gast is a "stand up" guy. However, he at least had some level of decency to realize his mistake and get out while he could. He's an example of someone who pushed beyond the boundaries of human ethics, thought they were onto something, actually researched it, realized their mistake and stopped. That's worth something. He's not clean or a "stand up" guy, but he certainly isn't on the same page as Hojo.

And he paid for his involvement with his life, in the most bitterly cruel way possible. So, he certainly paid for his crimes and then some. Aerith and Ifalna did as well.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

You don't think he's a standup guy, Mako, but plenty of people in fandom think it IS their job to exonerate Aerith's father. She's good, so he must be good, because if he weren't perfectly good, she'd be tainted. I can't understand this kind of thinking, but it's widespread.

Clem, I'm not making anything up. I'm trying to show that the available evidence can be interpreted in more than one way. When I speculate about certain scenarios, it's to demonstrate that, for now, they are possibilities.

 

[Odysseus]

I'm surprised people remember Gast exists, the compilation sure didn't.

 

[Clement Rage]

I tend to ignore ultimanias, they have a lot of contradictory or nonsensical stuff.

I mean, I don't think Gast is a "stand up" guy. However, he at least had some level of decency to realize his mistake and get out while he could. He's an example of someone who pushed beyond the boundaries of human ethics, thought they were onto something, actually researched it, realized their mistake and stopped. That's worth something. He's not clean or a "stand up" guy, but he certainly isn't on the same page as Hojo.

And he paid for his involvement with his life, in the most bitterly cruel way possible. So, he certainly paid for his crimes and then some.

Gast's moment of revelation appears to be 'that thing isn't an Ancient' rather than any objection to making a Cetra baby through mad science in itself. And the fact that he ended up making a Cetra baby in the end looks decidedly shady, to be honest. When Aeris grew up, would he have asked her to find the Promised Land?

All of your quote is far more true of Lucrecia.
Why is it not worth something for her?

Fandom does this sometimes, where sins are weighted based on how relatable they are, rather than the gravity of the crime. So Tseng in the remake can hand Aerith over to Hojo to be forcibly bred, but he can no longer hit her, because that would be unforgiveable.

I'm mostly on Lic's team here I think. In order to make a judgment, we need context that we don't have, we can't judge character decisions based on information that the characters couldn't possibly know when they were making those decisions. At the time of her marriage, the only thing we know of that Hojo has done to set off alarm bells is be a bit rude (so you've come to your senses and chosen me).

Japanese plays this *very* differently. That exchange with Vincent isn't even *about* the Project itself. It's instead about Vincent's relationship with Lucrecia at that point in time. Which is that Lucrecia is now with Hojo and not in a relationship with Vincent.

She's not so much saying that the Project concerns *only* her... she's saying that it shouldn't concern *Vincent*. Because he's not her boyfriend anymore. And he just used a Japanese pronoun to refer to her that is really only used between significant others. And Vincent and Lucrecia aren't that anymore. So it's not "this project *only* concerns me and no one else". It's more, "Who are you to call me your girlfriend? I'm not, so the choices I make about myself aren't something you can be concerned with anymore!".

You know, I picked this up just fine from the English version on my first playthrough.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Gast's moment of revelation appears to be 'that thing isn't an Ancient' rather than any objection to making a Cetra baby through mad science in itself. And the fact that he ended up making a Cetra baby in the end looks decidedly shady, to be honest. When Aeris grew up, would he have asked her to find the Promised Land?

There's literally zero reason to think he fucked Ifalna to make a Cetra and use her as a specimen. You're confusing him with Hojo, the man who kidnapped his kid and killed him for her. There's no reason to doubt the authenticity of their relationship when the story goes out of its way to show you he was making enthusiastic dad home movies to dote on his wife and kid.

And FFVII's dialogue about Gast makes it clear how he felt.

You can't talk of the Ancients, without mentioning Professor Gast.
He used to come here sometimes.
He was a Shinra scholar who spent his life studying the Ancients.
He was a serious person, never would have figured he'd be with the Shinra.
Must've been about 30 years ago, when he found the corpse of an Ancient. He was elated!
If I recall... he named it 'Jenova' and was doing a lot of research...
One day, he showed up here, looking real distressed.
He was mumbling something about Jenova not being an Ancient and that he'd done a terrible thing...
He's been missing since then. I heard that he never went back to Shinra

That would be after the decision and creation of the artificially created superhuman, Sephiroth. He regretted his mistaken identification and "the terrible thing" he created with his project.

More than likely he thought the creation of a Cetra would lead to a brighter future and was worth attempting to revive the Cetra race back from extinction. However, when he realized the truth of what Jenova was, the inhumanity behind the experiments was apparent and he realizes he not only fucked up, but created a space alien monster baby. He did mad scientist experiments that weren't even able to bring back an extinct race from this planet, only a murderous alien. That collision with reality clearly made him reflect on all he did wrong, according to Bugah.

And Lucrecia isn't in the same boat, she never stopped or wanted to stop. She doubled down on using her own body and unborn child for experimentation. How's that even close? Lucrecia felt regret for it all once she felt the consequences.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

My thing that gets to... a really fine line... is that there will always be women who let experimental procedures be done to their unborn children when they don't think it will hurt them. Most of the time when there is something wrong and it might be fixed with something untested. There will always be a need (and oftentimes people who desperately want) for experimental surgery/procedures, etc. to be done to unborn children for *entirely* ethical reasons even IRL.

Under the assumption that the Cetra are human-variants... Lucrecia probably didn't thing anything would go horribly wrong. Gast and Co. had been studying Jenova since... 1959 when they discovered her. They only sealed her in the Nibelheim in 1967 and it would be... another decade about before the S and G Project would be started. That's... a good 15-20 years of research done on Jenova before Sephiroth was born. All of it done under the assumption that Jenova was a Cetra.

Like... did Lucrecia let Hojo experiment on her unborn kid? Yes. Was it some crazy new thing/idea that no one had any idea of what it would do (or so they probably thought)? No. It was something that had been around as the R&D Department's biggest find for the last decade and a half. (No, I do *not* want to know if Jenova was messing with the heads of the R&D Department for the entire time...)

There's just... a world of difference between taking a part in an experiment with something that has never been tested and taking part in an experiment with something people have been experimenting with for a long period of time and they they have a handle on.

And then Gast found out that what he had thought for the last 15-20 years wasn't a Ceta at all but an alien... with mind manipulation powers and shape changing abilities. And he hadn't been able to pick up on it in that time... no wonder he freaked out in a *huge* way. That's... 15-20 years of research that just became *worthless*. Because it was based on a false hypothesis...

 

[Makoeyes987]

What human looks like this?



Anybody who thinks putting cells of that in their body needs to have their doctorate revoked, and any other degrees and/or certifications cancelled.

Gast was fucking cuckoo for thinking that was somehow related to people too. What the Minerva was he even smoking to not realize that was 100% high octane extraterrestrial?

Yes, it was 100% crazy. As crazy as injecting corrupted foul pitch black Lifestream into a pregnant woman to see if something would happen and if they'd give birth to a fetish gimp.

Like I said before, there's something seriously wrong with the Shinra Science Department. Like Reno said in "The Kids Are Alright," you gotta be demented in some fashion to work there. You don't just inject pregnant people with mystery vials of cells and/or radiation for lulz. Especially for a corporation who's motto is, "Ethics? More like relics, amirite?!"