E3 2019 Footage Analysis

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#26
Another point. Meteor cannot be everywhere on the overworld as in the OG, given that it’s presumably moving in a straight line towards a fixed point, namely Midgar. So I wonder how they bring that up to modern standards too. Although I SUPPOSE we don’t have enough info on Gaia’s rotational axis nor on whether Meteor is or isn’t circling the planet either ... I guess ...
It's possible that Sephiroth cast Meteor directly at Midgar, in which case, yeah, it may be orbiting the planet even as it slowly descends -- but it's also possible that the casting was just timed such that the city would be in Meteor's path when it made impact despite traveling in a straight line.

Or maybe it was moving in a straight line and it was just a(n) (un)happy coincidence they were in the same place at the same time. :monster:

Regardless of which of these it happens to be, though, you're quite right that the rock shouldn't be visible from everywhere on the overworld at any given time. It should either always be visible from above Midgar or, at any given moment, visible along half of the latitude Midgar rests upon.
 

Mayo Master

Pro Adventurer
#27
I'm on the same boat as Vyzzuvazzadth on this one - in my view the best way to create the illusion of vastness is to fragment the world map into different zones (a la FFXII), which individually would be very large. Likewise you have the impression to roam around a large area and at the same time be convinced that the large area that you see is only a small portion of the whole world.
Another trick regarding how to convey the illusion of long distances is about the relationship between in-game time and real time. Usually, there's a sort of rule of thumb that 1 hour IRL translates into 1 in-game day for many open-world games. If it takes you one in-game day to reach point B from point A, your mind can translate that into the appropriate distance - which would be much greater than the ground you would actually cover in 1 hour.

As for the position of Meteor in the sky, I have a different answer. Gravity! The Meteor would not impact the Planet following a straight line, especially if Meteor is visible in the sky for a month before impact (if it were coming at the Planet along a straight line, people wouldn't have much time to see it coming). I think it would rather follow a decaying orbit before eventually crashing. Hence, you could see it (or not) depending on the time and location on the Planet. Not sure how much the developers will actually bother with orbital equations though.
 

Solordinn

Lv. 25 Adventurer
#28
the ff12 idea might be the best way to work it out. The sequel (and other rpgs in general) could greatly benefit from the next gen consoles and their ssds when it comes to creating vast fully realized worlds without zone or region dividers.
I suspect why the producer hasn't really come out definitely said where the sequel story will end as they are still probably working on the logistics of the world map. It would be a shame if they just went for a chibi/diorama style world map after the long push for a more realistic aesthetic.

Which brings me to a proposal i had brought up in a previous thread. It came from revisiting the behind the scene videos of ubisoft's beyond good and evil 2.

They could start out with a full world (not as big as the gif mind you), then start individually creating locations old and new, places like gas stations, places of interests, dungeons, campsites, abandoned towns etc to break up the traversal and placing them in this new world. vehicles and chocobos could play a bigger part, which brings me to my next part when it comes to Cid's tiny broncho and airship.

I would have the tiny broncho be able to fly, but only at a certain mach speed and height. Akin to the regalia in FF15.

For Cid's airship, it will obviously be faster than the broncho, with varying degree of speed (normal to jet-powered)

 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
#29
Problem with XV is that travelling between locations is often stated to be 4 miles here, 5 miles there, meaning that the whole of the main continent feels like it’s only like 30miles2 (squared) at most. Which is hideously underwhelming if you’re trying to sell an “epic.” It’s like me dropping off a friend in north London before returning home to the suburbs in the South. So what? It’s the ultimately irony and paradox of these vast landscapes of nothingness, when really it’s an absolutely tiny world. Even for just a continent.

How they circumvent this in VIIR has me stumped.
Well, to give some more context to game world vs. real world sizes for a good idea of what open world means for a number of games, and also what those sizes feel like compared to one another:


So, some Final Fantasy XV Map Size Comparisons to that, since there are several maps in the game & we've been discussing zones.
• Altissia ~10.5 km² (~6.5 mi²)
• Main Map ~230 km² (~143 mi²)
• Niflheim ~661 km² (~410 mi²)
• Ocean ~40,000 km² (~24855 mi²)

The other point here is that the purpose of the World Map in FFVII is a little bit for exploration, but it's mostly for annotated travel. It's not like FFXV where it's meant to capture a roadtrip feeling, which is why I've literally never used fast travel while playing the game. I always just autopilot to wherever, and enjoy the scenery.

in fact if you have to travel in anything even REMOTELY resembling real-time it'll be just astronomically laborious for something that's completely not worth it. Keep in mind – the biggest map shown in that video was the Daggerfall map for Elderscrolls 2. That map is ~161,600 km² (100,413 mi²), AND it came out in 1996. The World Map is FFVII is a slightly more fleshed out fast-travel mechanic that's primarily in place to help you understand the sense of scale when dealing with a threat to the entire Planet. You start out slow, blocked my mountains and rivers, then you get a car to help you get through the rivers, then a shallow boat lets you around some continents with effort, then you get a submarine to cross continents, then an airship, then rockets on said airship. Chocobos exist as a loose parallel to match what accesses you get from your vehicles.

What the World Map needs to do is make it so that there is a journey that's connected to reaching the locations that helps inform your scale of the world, and understanding of everything around you. Midgar is massive and ridiculously dense. Junon is also insanely large and dense built over an existing town, meant to be a juxtaposition to Kalm as a small town and the wide open Chocobo Ranch.

I'd assume that how you accomplish this is by using zones in the same way that the original did. Upon the first time you go to a region, you have to leave the world map and traverse through it. The best example I'd say is making your way to North Corel on the way to Gold Saucer. You bypass the train tracks and canyon trip basically any time after that – but you HAVE to go through there the first time you reach it. It's acting as a bottleneck to control the pacing of the story to get you to spend more time in an area that isn't content dense like Midgar. From a design standpoint, that's all the Midgar Zolom and the Mythril Mines are – they're literally a bottleneck to get you to spend time at the ranch and develop a set of feelings about that place.

With the Remake's World Map, you want to chunk content blocks the same way, but you might be able to just do it as a "region" where you can world map wander anywhere, but you'll encounter little borders that appear when you approach them. Some can be optional (i.e. wander through a forest in real scale, or just breeze on through it), while others will require you to go through it the first time, and subsequent times can be optional.

The reason I'm thinking that this approach works well is that we also have to consider that the game needs to have the Diamond Weapon confrontation. You have to go set up as it approaches and try to stop it (much like the first scene with it in Kingsglaive)


This is something that needs to be done in the 1:1 scale, and not as a minimap encounter like the original game because THIS is where the new scale of the Remake can really shine in some utterly mind-blowing setpieces. Something like that could be a gathering point, but I think it'd be FAR more interesting to have to you rush back to Midgar via the world map, and enter the region, and watch the approach in full-scale potentially with a timer to set up your party members doing different things before it makes landfall.

Given that the post-Midgar remake has to account for all these things, it's almost certain that the map design is still going to have tons of detail put into various regions and spaces all over the world, the same way the original game did with anywhere it forced you to explore / traverse.

(Which means that @Vyzzuvazzadth will likely have enough content to scour over until the heat death of the universe) :mon:



X :neo:
 

Vyzzuvazzadth

Yazzavedth Zayann
#30
I get what you mean dude, I wasn’t really saying that though, I was just saying I hope that there are good deal of landing spots (whether to choose from or automatically be redirected towards :)) - my bad, I probably could’ve made that clearer.
Hey no worries. I hope so, too. Whatever they'll think of, I just hope they don't go the FFX route. But so far, everything they've shown and said (they know they can't screw this up) keeps me on the optimistic side.

Regarding the next video: I still have around 12 minutes of runtime to edit (out of ~41). I really hope I manage to get it done by Sunday night (GMT+2).

EDIT:
(Which means that @Vyzzuvazzadth will likely have enough content to scour over until the heat death of the universe) :mon:
At least I'll have something to do between installments with a time gap of anywhere between 3 and 5 years ^^
 
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OdaDaimyO

Conqueror of Sugar
AKA
Mochi Lover
#31
Not sure this helps, but there are two things I spotted in Seventh Heaven I want to share my thoughts on:

vlcsnap-2019-07-19-00h11m41s774 (edit).png

The blackboard, what looks like a door sign Tifa hangs out at open hours, has a word that I have trouble to discern, but I think it means "Welcome home", because this would reflect Tifa's philosophy of an familiar atmosphere she wants to establish in her bar. Gravings on the drinking glasses are another thing where you realise: This place is not ONLY for disguise, but a real establishment where someone really cares and tries to give their costumers a unique experience.

The scribbled paper behind the fridge looks for me like 'Somebody' attempted to explain 'Someone' how Materia works :whistle: , or to be precise, how you should link them up correctly.

The Chocobo poster you see in this scene in a couple of frames later, clearly reads the headline: CHOCOBO SHOW
There is a lot of concern that Chocobos don't appear in part 1, but they were already showed to be present in Midgar since the OG. It's the scene where Tifa was 'delivered' per Chocobo coach to Corneo's mansion.

vlcsnap-2019-07-19-02h27m46s389 (edit).png

Scorpion Sentinel has a move called "EM Field", through activating these 'rods' that move out of his armor, it electrifies everything on a 3-5 meter radius... I guess? (no feeling for distances)

His other move called "Auto Repair" is more interesting, because it gives us a possible new element in the battles, where monster and machines, who are influenced through Mako, can take advantage on their surroundings when they're near Mako resources, to restore their health.

Ooops, looks like I wrote more than TWO things. :P I'm sure many of you already discovered these points and I'm wasting my time, BUT I REGRET NOTHING! It's too much fun anyway! ;)
 

Vyzzuvazzadth

Yazzavedth Zayann
#32
The blackboard, what looks like a door sign Tifa hangs out at open hours, has a word that I have trouble to discern, but I think it means "Welcome home"
I've seen that and I think it says "Seventh Heaven", "Welcome here!!" and "Tifa". I also think it's just a blackboard sitting there, welcoming customers at the bar and not one to hang outside. There's already a black board stand outside saying "Have a great day!"

The scribbled paper behind the fridge looks for me like 'Somebody' attempted to explain 'Someone' how Materia works :whistle: , or to be precise, how you should link them up correctly.
That's a possibility. Would be a strange diagram, though.

As for the other points, I already noticed them :P
Thank you very much for sharing, though!
 

OdaDaimyO

Conqueror of Sugar
AKA
Mochi Lover
#33
I've seen that and I think it says "Seventh Heaven", "Welcome here!!" and "Tifa". I also think it's just a blackboard sitting there, welcoming customers at the bar and not one to hang outside. There's already a black board stand outside saying "Have a great day!"
Thanks for noticing me sen-*cough*... I mean, I was reading "here" the first time too, but it sounded strange for an welcoming sign, now it makes much more sense, where greetings for her costumers, comes from a specific place.

Do you think the "Auto Repair Theory" has some merit, or did I missed the target again? :shifty:
 

Vyzzuvazzadth

Yazzavedth Zayann
#34
Since the Scorpion Sentinel does glow green while using Auto-Repair, your theory does have merit. Even Cloud is surprised that it can do that as it is not supposed to be able to. It seems to be an upgraded version with the ability to use Mako for self-healing. Where else would it draw that energy from? It's also a brilliant ability for a machine which is meant to guard the Mako reactor.

There's even very strong evidence for that theory. If you watch closely while it's performing its Auto-Repair move (twice in the gameplay demonstration), the ground below starts glowing in green and Mako particles get sucked out of the basin and into the Scorpion Sentinel. That's plausible as the ground floor is mostly made of metal grating. Only the center path consists of solid plates.
 

Vyzzuvazzadth

Yazzavedth Zayann
#38
A question on the theory. Is it drawing Mako to use the mako itself to heal or is it drawing the mako into a mako generator to power whatever nanobots or whatever is the mechanics behind its auto-repair ability?
Presumably that second one.
^

It most likely runs on Mako and then draws more Mako for more fuel, which also fuels the Auto-Repair unit (or something along those lines).
 

Kain424

Old Man in the Room
#39
I love all these extensions to what the original game offered. There should be some excellent surprises for those of us who loved the original and played through it so many times.

Watching your video pumps me up so much. I can't believe they're putting this much attention to such an old game. They could have just made everything up and folks might not have even uttered a word of protest, but this is something else. I can only really compare it to the recent Resident Evil 2 remake. There were all these cool little easter eggs for those of us who knew the original by heart. This appears to be doing something like that, only even more intensive!
 

FFShinra

Sharp Shinra Shill
#44
Making a bet they do something every month. Last month was the biggie, the month before was the teaser, this month was small, but still there with SDCC. I expect a TGS and Gamescom thing, maybe even a Game Awards thing.
 

OdaDaimyO

Conqueror of Sugar
AKA
Mochi Lover
#46
Apologies for the double-post, but I just updated the OP by adding the latest analysis video:

It feels like I've been in coma for the last 5 days. Waking up and see this miracle before my eyes, that someone actually surpassed this man...you can imagine my joy as I witnessed, that it was HE HIMSELF who did the impossible!

For me, this is your best game analysis work up to date. It really captures how much SE cares for every single location we experienced in the OG and how they gave it more dimension. The first time, where my attention was directed on this fact, was your analysis on the PSX 2015 trailer, since then I am one of your biggest admires. Your videos are exceptionally detailed and very professional, would there be an Oscar category for "Best Youtuber", you would've no competition. I can't thank you enough for your hard work, your positiv (for now ;)) influence and contribution you blessing us with and this game through its development process.

Warning! Something german: Du bist der Mann der Stunde, mach weiter so! Ich wünsche dir, viel Glück und Erfolg für deine zukünftigen Projekte!
 
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Vyzzuvazzadth

Yazzavedth Zayann
#48
Thanks you guys! I don't deserve so much love :aah:
Also great to meet fellow German speaking FFFans (native or otherwise). Vielen Dank euch beiden!

Anyway, I don't think I'll ever run out of stuff to analyze for the next few years. I've got my work cut out for me.
Maybe I'll start a series called Analysis Run or something along those lines ^^
 

Pandemonium

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
#49
Problem with XV is that travelling between locations is often stated to be 4 miles here, 5 miles there, meaning that the whole of the main continent feels like it’s only like 30miles2 (squared) at most. Which is hideously underwhelming if you’re trying to sell an “epic.” It’s like me dropping off a friend in north London before returning home to the suburbs in the South. So what? It’s the ultimately irony and paradox of these vast landscapes of nothingness, when really it’s an absolutely tiny world. Even for just a continent.

How they circumvent this in VIIR has me stumped.
I didn't go by the distance between places. I went by how long it took to manually travel between places. In the game clock, some places took 5-6 hours to get to
 

Vyzzuvazzadth

Yazzavedth Zayann
#50
I didn't go by the distance between places. I went by how long it took to manually travel between places. In the game clock, some places took 5-6 hours to get to
That's the discrepancy breaking in-game consistencies. Either you go by in-game distance or in-game time. Both combined don't make sense unless you walk there.

There's already a display of distance in the FFVII Remake, but within Midgar, those real distances work out as the scope is much smaller and thus the time spent traveling to a location should be consistent with the actual distance. I'm really curious about how they'll handle the areas between settlements and cities outside of Midgar without falling into the same trap as FFXV did.


UPDATE: Just finished the script for my next analysis video. Again, it grew much larger than anticipated and might even exceed a runtime of 1h! There's no hope left for me ^^°
 
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