Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)

[RhinoKart]

@insanehobbit True! I honestly see both readings as valid; I agree with Peko and Yumelinh's readings of it too. I don't think it's that big of a deal in the long run though, just a cute thing in the moment that gets wrapped up fairly quickly.

Re: the action saves though, oh my god they're so abundant, lol. Even in the final battle, I think it was @RhinoKart who brought it up? Whisper Rubrum goes straight for Tifa when Cloud leaps right in front her, even though Aerith is right there too. I know we're all wearing shipper goggles here, but that was still an interesting moment to highlight to me.

On a small topic change, how do you guys think they're going to approach the Highwind scene this time? I know it's so far into the future, but I'm curious. If they're aiming to keep the T rating I don't think they can go too overt, but I'm thinking an actual kiss on-screen isn't out of the question.

Yep that was me, I find that scene so interesting because as I stated before I see no reason to have Cloud only need to save Tifa, yet they did. Also since we mentioned this, here are screenshots of 5 non-optional Cloti moments in Chapters 17 and 18 (including the just mentioned one), as well as 1 optional one (depending on who arrives to help Cloud with Sephiroth first). Enjoy!

Spoiler: Cloti in Chapters 17 & 18

As for the Highwind, I'm really hoping we get a kiss before the fade to black but I can see the Dev's deciding to once again leave things a bit ambiguous just because that is what they have always done with the FF7 material.

Just to add to an earlier topic about the train graveyard, @odekopeko I also read that scene as some tension between C/T, which comes to a head in the next arm grabbing scene. That being said I completely agree that it is resolved after that because Cloud spends the rest of the time focusing on Tifa. I have lots to say about this actually but it would for sure qualify as LTD thread material so I'll post about it there later.

 

[Eerie]

For the Highwind scene, I can see Tifa's line being kept because it's soooo iconic now lol. Maybe we will get a kiss, since we already got a hug (even if it was non-romantic per se...), they have to up the game now lol. It's been a while since the devs haven't really been subtle with the LTD and hammered down that Cloud and Tifa were a couple. You have to wear pretty thick blinders to refute that truth. Personally, I just hope it won't be optional anymore, ugh, or we won't hear the end of it!

 

[minami758]

As for the Highwind, I'm really hoping we get a kiss before the fade to black but I can see the Dev's deciding to once again leave things a bit ambiguous just because that is what they have always done with the FF7 material.

For the Highwind scene, I can see Tifa's line being kept because it's soooo iconic now lol. Maybe we will get a kiss, since we already got a hug (even if it was non-romantic per se...), they have to up the game now lol. It's been a while since the devs haven't really been subtle with the LTD and hammered down that Cloud and Tifa were a couple. You have to wear pretty thick blinders to refute that truth. Personally, I just hope it won't be optional anymore, ugh, or we won't hear the end of it!

You know, I totally thought ambiguity was the direction they'd go in before the Remake came out, but I kind of agree with Eerie now.

The fact that there are just so many references to sexual things in the game, and that we got that train roll (which imo was an almost-kiss moment), as well as the hug, and some handholding... they've just included so much already I feel like they'll need to up the stakes as we continue. Ayumi Ito has already recorded her famous line for a few Dissidia games now, so I'm inclined to think they'll keep it in because it's so iconic.

If I'm being optimistic, I don't think Highwind will be optional. The HA/LA scenes in the OG played into the affection game mechanics, and while they do keep the resolution scenes in Part 1 as sort of an ode to that, I don't really see the point of having a HA/LA version. Since the game is split into episodes now, by the time we get to that part (whether it be part 3 or 4 or 5 or whatever), affection points no longer serve a purpose. Maybe that's just me being too optimistic though, haha.

 

[odekopeko]

It's been a while since the devs haven't really been subtle with the LTD and hammered down that Cloud and Tifa were a couple. You have to wear pretty thick blinders to refute that truth. Personally, I just hope it won't be optional anymore, ugh, or we won't hear the end of it!

I prefer “show not tell”, but SE couldn’t make it more obvious than in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania.

Aerith and Tifa in FF7 (status): 大切な人-taisetsu na hito/someone special; important person

Aerith in AC (status): 大切な人-taisetsu na hito
What was the term I also saw being used, engraved in his heart?

Tifa in AC (status): クラウドにとって大切な女性-Cloud ni totte taisetsu na josei
An important woman to Cloud.

They distinctly used a term that is as non-neutral as the Japanese can get! Not only is she an important "person", but Cloud sees her as an important "woman". You don't go around throwing this term loosely with just anybody. That would certainly raise eyebrows. I don't know much more obvious it can get. But they do need to do a better job of showing it less subtly, which is where I think the Remake excels.

About the Highwind Scene, SE might turtle and not even give us a kiss. Imagine the death threats they’d receive? But they've given us so much in Part 1 already, and the characters are all equally loved. Maybe they'll finally grow a pair and give us a T-rated kiss. But if not, I better at least see some loving glances and an embrace, gentler from Cloud this time, cause, you know, character growth.

 

[RhinoKart]

I just don't want to convince myself there will be a kiss only to be disappointed. Similar to how going into Remake I was ready for there to be minimal C/T moments in Midgar only to be ecstatically happy at what we got.

There could be a kiss because I agree there is a ton of sexual tension between C/T already that needs to get resolved (and a kiss would be the most Teen friendly way to do that) but SE didn't even give Zerith a kiss and they were an undisputed canon couple, so I'm just not certain Cloti will get one.

 

[Cat on Mars]

I can see them keeping that iconic Tifa's line, Cloud reaching for her hand and Tifa grasping it with both hands, they look at each other's face for a second, nod and they walk towards the background and disappear behind a piece of scenery, then some noises of dev's choice and fade to black.

My version:
The same but instead of nodding, Tifa says "let's go for a ride" and they head to the Highwind.
Cut and they're inside the chocobo stable putting their clothes back on, and then going outside to see the stars and they fall asleep together embracing each other.

 

[insanehobbit]

I too hesitate to be optimistic here, since I'm so used to SE playing coy on the subject, but after the Remake, I can't see the scene just ending with another fade to black.

Like sure, they'll risk alienating a part of the fandom if they make things more explicit, but I imagine they would even piss off a bigger part of the fandom (specifically the new fans who were introduced to FF7 via the Remake) if they build up Cloud and Tifa's relationship so much only for them to take the coward's way out at the end.

Not saying all hugs in Final Fantasy games are romantic in nature, but they are pretty rare and we already got that in Part 1. It can only escalate from there!

Tifa's line has been referenced several times in recent cameo/spinoff appearances, so I definitely think we'll get that as well.

In terms of LA/HA version, I think there will only be one. I think someone mentioned it in this thread earlier, but based on the optional choices in the OG that are now canon in the Remake, you pretty much already have enough affection points for the HA HW scene.

 

[minami758]

Y'all are right, I need to temper my expectations, lmao. Especially for a game that won't be coming out for another 5+ years probably.

I think I'm still on a Cloud/Tifa high, tbh.

 

[insanehobbit]

Lol, this discussion is why I was so annoyed when I found out they were going to split the Remake into multiple parts. I just need an answer once and for all. I can't spend another decade of my life neglecting my employer to speculate about whether two fictional characters really bone.

(Though, don't get me wrong, I am very happy to do so with all of y'all, haha)

 

[Cat on Mars]

just need an answer once and for all. I can't spend another decade of my life neglecting my employer to speculate about whether two fictional characters really bone.
(Though, don't get me wrong, I am very happy to do so with all of y'all, haha)

Don't worry, I have all the prospective boning covered.
It's gonna to be so much fun!

 

[RhinoKart]

In terms of LA/HA version, I think there will only be one. I think someone mentioned it in this thread earlier, but based on the optional choices in the OG that are now canon in the Remake, you pretty much already have enough affection points for the HA HW scene.

So I just tried to see how the old date mechanic would come out for Tifa in remake. I think you could easily have already hit the needed 50 points (in OG Tifa starts at 30 points)

- Give the flower to Tifa (now non-optional) gives +5 points

- Having a drink with Tifa (you are still given the same dialogue choice here in Remake although regardless Cloud ends up flirting with Tifa) gives +5 points

- Tifa asking if you are leaving, this is no longer optional because Cloud remembers the promise and says he is staying gives +5 points

-Getting off the train in the time limit is still optional, but doing so successfully gives +5 points

-Talking to Tifa first in the sewers is still optional but doing so in OG gave +3 points to Tifa

So if you responded positively towards Tifa in all the optional scenes in Remake you would have had an equivalent of 53 points with Tifa when you leave Midgar. That's enough for the HA Highwind scene!

Perhaps most interestingly almost every scene/option (with a possible exception of one) where you could have given negative points to Tifa in the OG has been removed. The closest I could find is in OG there is an exchange with Jessie where you say you are looking forward to her making you a special ID. Being positive about this gives negative points to Tifa and we could easily argue that setting up the date with Jessie in Remake is a close enough comparison. That being said in the OG this would only remove 3 points from Tifa, so you'd still have the 50 points you needed if you were responding positively to Tifa as well.

Obviously Remake is doing something completely different with the affection system, but still fun to look at a comparison of the two.

 

[Yumelinh]

Also very good decision by Nojima to push the hug even if Cloud's bad at it.

After watched many streamers reacting to this scene, I think it was the best option regardless of ships because people were already screaming at the screen because he took so long to hug her.. can you imagine their reaction if he just stood there?

Jokes aside, It was definitely a good decision, again, regardless of ships. it's just a natural reaction to hug someone whos crying on your shoulder, even for someone whos not used to comfort people.

Yep, yep. Again, unless they are the most incompetent storytellers in the world, there is no narrative reason for SE to be doing all this if the endgame is for Cloud and Tifa to be platonic roommates.

Yes! there was no need to deepen their relationship from the beginning, as they did here, if all they want to achieve is that level of ambiguity by the end, honestly.

I just don't want to convince myself there will be a kiss only to be disappointed. Similar to how going into Remake I was ready for there to be minimal C/T moments in Midgar only to be ecstatically happy at what we got.

There could be a kiss because I agree there is a ton of sexual tension between C/T already that needs to get resolved (and a kiss would be the most Teen friendly way to do that) but SE didn't even give Zerith a kiss and they were an undisputed canon couple, so I'm just not certain Cloti will get one.

That's how I feel, too! I'm optimistic, but I want to be cautious with my expectations.

Not just with the HW scene but with all the next parts in general. I believe that everything is possible for both sides and the game can change sides if the devs want to, but so far I am optimistic that they will keep going into the direction the Compilation has presented until now.

That said, If they really want to end this discussion for good then something like a kiss really needs to happen, or else things will just be the same (only the arguments will change), and honestly more than anything else, I just want the LTD to end

Tifa in AC (status): クラウドにとって大切な女性-Cloud ni totte taisetsu na josei
An important woman to Cloud.

Just to be sure, so referring to someone as your " taisetsu na josei" can be considered romantic?

As always, thanks for your inputs and little translations Peko!! As someone who doesn't speak Japanese, I appreciate a lot <3

 

[odekopeko]

Just to be sure, so referring to someone as your " taisetsu na josei" can be considered romantic?

Yes, I believe so. I can only think of two cases where this term is used (and feel free to correct me if you find another):

a) a person's mother, who gave birth to them (rarely used in such cases and a little weird if a grown man talks of his mother in this way), and
b) a wife/significant other/serious girlfriend, or a woman you love as in the 本命-honmei kind of love, like this girl is "the one" kind of love.

They could have kept using the more neutral term, taisetsu na hito, as they've done a few times before with Tifa. They did it here in the Remake. That term can be considered romantic as well as used to describe a friend that you love and cherish. But, for them to deliberately use the word "josei" there, along with a screenshot of her standing slightly behind Cloud and gazing at him lovingly while he's talking to her, speaks volumes. It's pretty in one's face.

 

[Ruri]

Jumping in to echo @Yumelinh with my appreciation for you @odekopeko I absolutely love reading your thoughts and interpretations to the game and the relationships. Your ability to articulate, stay neutral and have a better understanding of Japanese than most makes for me looking forward to your posts most of the time. Also your little insights to the Japanese forum topics on Tifa and cloti etc, that's really cool!

Have C/T mo-cap recent posts made it to this club yet?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275077435604602886

Love Shibai Haruka, not only her updates, even if they aren't VII related but because she keeps liking other cloti twitter posts. She seems like a big fan herself, with her Tifa coaster on her twitter banner, Oh and I might have a little bit of a crush too.

 

[Final_Heaven]

Yes, I believe so. I can only think of two cases where this term is used (and feel free to correct me if you find another):

a) a person's mother, who gave birth to them (rarely used in such cases and a little weird if a grown man talks of his mother in this way), and
b) a wife/significant other/serious girlfriend, or a woman you love as in the 本命-honmei kind of love, like this girl is "the one" kind of love.

They could have kept using the more neutral term, taisetsu na hito, as they've done a few times before with Tifa. They did it here in the Remake. That term can be considered romantic as well as used to describe a friend that you love and cherish. But, for them to deliberately use the word "josei" there, along with a screenshot of her standing slightly behind Cloud and gazing at him lovingly while he's talking to her, speaks volumes. It's pretty in one's face.

Yeah, we as Americans/Westerners wouldn't be able to understand the significance of "taisetsu na hito" since it's translated as important woman which reads as extremely vague and neutral to us.

Like, my little sister or my female friend can be an important woman to me.

Jumping in to echo @Yumelinh with my appreciation for you @odekopeko I absolutely love reading your thoughts and interpretations to the game and the relationships. Your ability to articulate, stay neutral and have a better understanding of Japanese than most makes for me looking forward to your posts most of the time. Also your little insights to the Japanese forum topics on Tifa and cloti etc, that's really cool!

Have C/T mo-cap recent posts made it to this club yet?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275077435604602886

Love Shibai Haruka, not only her updates, even if they aren't VII related but because she keeps liking other cloti twitter posts. She seems like a big fan herself, with her Tifa coaster on her twitter banner, Oh and I might have a little bit of a crush too.

That's an umbrella in the back. Costa De Sol mocap?

 

[RhinoKart]

There was a tweet yesterday about Cloud and Tifa's mocap actors doing singing animations. Now they do work together on mocap stuff that isn't FF7 so it likely is for something else, but the thought of a Gold Saucer duet minigame between Cloud and Tifa had me laughing for a while....

 

[Yumelinh]

Yes, I believe so. I can only think of two cases where this term is used (and feel free to correct me if you find another):

a) a person's mother, who gave birth to them (rarely used in such cases and a little weird if a grown man talks of his mother in this way), and
b) a wife/significant other/serious girlfriend, or a woman you love as in the 本命-honmei kind of love, like this girl is "the one" kind of love.

They could have kept using the more neutral term, taisetsu na hito, as they've done a few times before with Tifa. They did it here in the Remake. That term can be considered romantic as well as used to describe a friend that you love and cherish. But, for them to deliberately use the word "josei" there, along with a screenshot of her standing slightly behind Cloud and gazing at him lovingly while he's talking to her, speaks volumes. It's pretty in one's face.

Thank you!! These types of information get lost in translation, so it's good to have this sort of explanation =))))))))

Edit to add: This is also the first time I see a person being described as someone's "taisetsu na josei" so I was really curious to know if it held the same importance as "taisetsu na hito" =)

Jumping in to echo @Yumelinh
Have C/T mo-cap recent posts made it to this club yet?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275077435604602886

Love Shibai Haruka, not only her updates, even if they aren't VII related but because she keeps liking other cloti twitter posts. She seems like a big fan herself, with her Tifa coaster on her twitter banner, Oh and I might have a little bit of a crush too.

Ah, she's adorable! And I keep hoping the project these two are working on right now is FFVIIR2 ;-;

I went to check her liked tweets ( I got curious lol) and too many Cloti fanarts also, she liked this one:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273827879499886593

....does it confirm this tidbit? I mean, she mocap-ed it, right?

There was a tweet yesterday about Cloud and Tifa's mocap actors doing singing animations. Now they do work together on mocap stuff that isn't FF7 so it likely is for something else, but the thought of a Gold Saucer duet minigame between Cloud and Tifa had me laughing for a while....

.................now I want it!!

 

[Yumelinh]

Double posting to leave a question for y'all:

I know I'm the one who just said "Let's be cautious with our expectation!" but what are the things you're most excited/looking forward to in Part 2?

 

[odekopeko]

Btw thank you guys for the encouraging words. I love discussing translations and things like that with you. I do have some benefit in growing up in a bilingual household, but I'm not kidding when I say Japanese is difficult for the Japanese as well. ?

Edit: I need to make a correction though. The Cloud ni totte part was not there. It was from another official source I was reading where it talks about Tifa being important to him when he was a child. But the taisetsu na josei part under Cloud's character profile remains. I'm sure it was translated on this site as well.

 

[RhinoKart]

Double posting to leave a question for y'all:

I know I'm the one who just said "Let's be cautious with our expectation!" but what are the things you're most excited/looking forward to in Part 2?

Things I think we will get:
-More C/T touching and flirting!
-The lifestream sequence (probably not part 2 though)
-under the Highwind (however they do it)
-The devastating breakdown when Cloud thinks he is a puppet, this will break my heart but I want to see it badly.

Things I am hopeful we'll get:
-A C/T gold saucer date
-Some flirting/blushing happening in Costa Del Sol
-Tifa saying Cloud's hair looks like a chocobo (and that she thinks it's cute)

Things we probably won't get but I really want to happen:
-A KISS DAMN IT!
-During our return to Neiblheim I want a recreated water tower scene where C/T talk about their disbelief that the town has been rebuilt and/or some emotional moment as they pass by the Neilbheim rector
-Cloud's "I'll make enough ruckus for everyone!" line on the Highwind. I just love that moment so much!

 

[Ruri]

Double posting to leave a question for y'all:

I know I'm the one who just said "Let's be cautious with our expectation!" but what are the things you're most excited/looking forward to in Part 2?

I don't mean to be unrealistic but

Spoiler: FF XV SPOILERS

Noctis took off his glove to caress Luna's face and all eyes on you Cloud.

Back to being realistic, more of Cloud/Tifa's inherent tendency of gravitating towards each other at every other minute because reasons. I think that's standard but I am happy with that already. We can see and feel their attraction and affection in their body language and touches and it's wonderful. More would be greedy but it's seems like their natural selves. With the introduction of the rest of VII's character cast next part, I feel Cloud's relationship, especially with either of the two girls, will fall on the backburner a bit. C/T are also both still very capable of light-hearted flirting when they are comfortable with one another and they are not pursuing any dire circumstance. It would be nice to see them both just relaxed a bit.

Btw thank you guys for the encouraging words. I love discussing translations and things like that with you. I do have some benefit in growing up in a bilingual household, but I'm not kidding when I say Japanese is difficult for the Japanese as well. ?

Aha, I had a Japanese cloti mutual on twitter say the same exact words when discussing Tifa's character profile.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273753827557011456

 

[insanehobbit]

what are the things you're most excited/looking forward to in Part 2?

If you're asking specifically about Part 2, then I haven't the foggiest. From what parts of the OG it'll encapsulate to what changes if any they'll make to the narrative. They went so big with the ending of Part 1, that it'll feel almost anti-climatic to just go chasing the Man in the Black Cape. (A chase that lacked a sense of urgency in the OG, IMO)

Specifically re: C/T, I think romance in general is going to take a backseat in the next installment, which is not to say relationships in general won't be developed. If we're looking at the choices that impact the Gold Saucer date in the OG, the only meaningful decisions left are what you say on the Cargo ship, who you take to accompany Barret, and Gongaga (assuming we even get to all these locations in Part 2).

The only thing I'm sure we're getting is the Kalm flashback. I wonder how much more they're going to expand this time around since we've already seen it in so many different installments of the Compilation. At least we'll have Tifa's reactions in HD to look forward to.

That being said, I only expected Cloti crumbs in Part 1, since all we really got in the OG was the Promise scene and some optional dialogue, and look where we are now. So who knows! This was a very long-winded way for me to say I know absolutely nothing.

-Cloud's "I'll make enough ruckus for everyone!" line on the Highwind. I just love that moment so much!

They so better keep this in. Post-Lifestream dork Cloud is my favorite! I hope we get to spend a lot more time with him in the Remake.

 

[minami758]

-During our return to Neiblheim I want a recreated water tower scene where C/T talk about their disbelief that the town has been rebuilt and/or some emotional moment as they pass by the Neilbheim rector

Oh I don't think you have to be worried about this not happening. Maybe not a 1:1 recreation of them on top of the water tower, but there will definitely be Cloti angst and emotion involved in the visit to Nibelheim. It's pretty much guaranteed, imo. I think the Nibelheim visit is going to be a much bigger deal this time around than in the OG.

If I'm keeping my hopes/anticipations to Part 2 only (which in my personal prediction will end right after Nibelheim), then I think post-Kalm flashback we might get some angsting/confusion from Tifa's side, and perhaps Cloud not quite knowing that's going on with her and attempting to figure it out.

Re: everything else, I'm just as clueless as @insanehobbit! If I could just make general predictions then I'm almost positive we'll continue to get touchiness and the general care for each other's well-being. But seeing as we'll have more characters to meet and plotlines to develop, I also think romance will take a backseat. But that isn't to say we won't get some nice smaller moments.

 

[iamhorde]

Double posting to leave a question for y'all:

I know I'm the one who just said "Let's be cautious with our expectation!" but what are the things you're most excited/looking forward to in Part 2?

May everyone's wishes for C/T come true, because those are mine as well.

I'm very curious to see what is Zack's role in part 2. If done well, his role could not only potentially end the LTD but he would also be a positive influence on CloTi. There's been so many artwork depicting how Zack could set those 2 lovebirds dorks straight and make them realize their feelings for each other.

Also, I really like the little detail found in the synopsis for "Alone at Last". It says

"Cloud gets Tifa to smile, leading even Marle to accept that he may be something special".

A totally unnecessary line if the devs did not wan fans to think that there's something developing between them.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274727885597794305

 

[Yumelinh]

Thank you, everyone, for the replies =) Yeah, I expected the LTD to (hopefully) back down a bit as well, but we’ll probably have a little more insight into the interactions between Cloud and the two girls on a daily basis( which I think will be very important to get an idea where the game is going with all this). But overall... I just wanna see Vincent

Also, I really like the little detail found in the synopsis for "Alone at Last". It says

"Cloud gets Tifa to smile, leading even Marle to accept that he may be something special".

A totally unnecessary line if the devs did not wan fans to think that there's something developing between them.

Oh! And here I was wondering what made Marle act LIKE THAT with Cloud and the answer was in the synopsis all along??

This strongly implies that Marle realized Cloud's importance to Tifa immediately because she never saw Tifa genuinely smiling before he came around.... brb imma go cry....