Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)

Graymouse

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
I will be honest with you all, it is so overwhelmingly awesome how much this club has taken off in the past few days. There are so many new posts, I can't even keep up with the conversations! Sorry, I have nothing to add to the said conversation, but I bring a bunch of pictures. :monster:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1272912052022108166

So, you guys don't think there is a LTD in Japan, Thank again. This is so cute, she even uses "shipping" language, in how she is explaining to him about the FF7 coupling dynamics! If you read the comments, you find out that she once grew her hair out long because it looks like Tifa, and wanted to open a store called "seventh heaven". She loves Tifa a lot! I love this!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275048830447190016

Edited to add:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275045636082069506

Crowd reaction to when Tifa was shown at E3. I am not going to lie, I watched this live, and I got misty eyed when Tifa was revealed!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274894995179188224
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275157535725625350
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1256904695572041728
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275106279921455107

This has got to be one of my favorite pictures.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275092574034788354
 
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Final_Heaven

Final_Heaven

Pro Adventurer
Graymouse said:
I will be honest with you all, it is so overwhelmingly awesome how much this club has taken off in the past few days. There are so many new posts, I can't even keep up with the conversations! Sorry, I have nothing to add to the said conversation, but I bring a bunch of pictures. :monster:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1272912052022108166

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275092574034788354
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This is one of those rare times that I'm gonna perv but my god, her boobs are huge. People really gonna complain about them still?

With a figure like hers, this is as large as they can be without looking like a One Piece character.
 
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S

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
What do you guys think is the most clear cut piece of evidence that Cloti is canon? Because in my opinion, the most clear cut evidence is the conglomeration of the thousands of small pieces of evidence (like the earrings, the smaller the detail, the more significant I find it that they went through the trouble), but I've noticed that if you give people 20 reasons they'll just pick out the worst one, say that that doesn't prove anything, and ignore the rest.


Final_Heaven said:
This is one of those rare times that I'm gonna perv but my god, her boobs are huge. People really gonna complain about them still?
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Meh, I think they're fine in some models/shots, too small in others. And by too small I don't mean that they're too small in general. Just smaller than I'd always imagined Tifa. Yeah, Tifa still has a 1 in a thousand physique, but her especially I'd expect to be 1 in 7 billion, I don't care if she's still large for the "average" person, fact is I've seen several girls IRL since the game came out with a similar build, but larger chests, I've never seen someone built like Barret.

I wouldn't have made them massively larger myself mind, but I'd have just sooner risked making them look too large rather than too small. I've seen larger chested versions of her character that looked great, and even if it would look like "one piece", so what? Despite popular opinion, FFVII:R doesn't look realistic, it looks like an anime, Barrets arms are still wider than Tifas waist.

Right now it looks like Scarlet has a larger chest than Tifa (although it seems more squashed by her outfit, might be different in profile), and that's just wrong to me, for some reason I just always assumed scarlet was a bit jealous of Tifas looks, although I also assumed scarlet looked horrible so I guess I was simply wrong there.

Then again, this image of Sreliata is still perhaps my favorite rendition of Tifa, and I am not even sure her chest is larger here, there is just something about the posture, and perhaps even the texture on the cloth that just makes her chest look prominent, it gives a sense of strength and pride that I really enjoy. But to be fair, the game had some of those moments as well.

ddqjlk4-77f07b42-cc85-41a2-adbe-a93f864037f4.png
 
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Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
Purple said:
“I was devastated. I wanted to be noticed...”
“Someone to notice you? Who?”
“Who? You know who! You, that’s who.”

View attachment 6791If that ain’t canon, I don’t know what is
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Yeah, I agree that that should be enough, but I've gone through this 100 times before, and it's the same thing each time.
"that was just a childhood crush, after that he fell in love with Aerith"
 
insanehobbit

insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
Yeji738494 said:
“The because I have you” convo in CoT. People are just purposefully obtuse at this point
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That's the one for me. I legit thought I had accidentally opened a piece of fan fiction when first read the translation of CoT back in 2005 or whatever. This is a conversation you only have with the woman you're planning on spending the rest of your life with. And I do not mean as platonic roommates who just happen to be raising two kids together (which was pretty widely held view back in the day!)
 
Chonkoboo

Chonkoboo

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
Kweh
Hi! I've been lurking here for some time now and it's awesome reading your insights about the game. English isn't my native language so I apologize if I don't deliver my thoughts as good as you guys do. ? I just wanted to add my two cents on what direction they're gonna go for in regards with the HW scene. If they're basing it from the compilation, there's a quote from a revised Ultimania that states:

"Cloud and Tifa, who remain, reveal their feelings for each other and clarify them together."

~pg.118 of the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania (pg.120 of the book's Revised Edition)

(correct me if the translation is wrong, I just saw it somewhere ? )
If they clarify, then I hope we're gonna get a scene where they make it very clear with each other where their relationship stands, and at the same time, clarifying it to us, the audience as well. All of this without using words so it's very likely that we'll get at the very least, a kiss. ?
 
odekopeko

odekopeko

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Peko
Yeji738494 said:
“The because I have you” convo in CoT. People are just purposefully obtuse at this point
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The "because I have you" is probably the closest thing we'll ever hear to an "I love you" from Cloud, isn't it? Damn. But, if I'm to be real honest, Cloud - who people find even him just smiling to be fascinating because of how rare it is -saying something as sappy as this? Oh man, I forgot about this line. I can't even! It sounds like a freaking proposal!

Stiggie said:
What do you guys think is the most clear cut piece of evidence that Cloti is canon?
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Some people prefer more obvious, grand, romantic gestures, which we're not going to see a lot of from Cloud anyway.

Then again, I personally I thought it was a pretty obvious, grand, and romantic gesture from Cloud to promise to be Tifa's hero though. To have that promise captured so beautifully in the Remake, with them sitting and gazing at the stars, for those memories of her to be so vividly burned into his psyche that even in his confused state, even when he's forgotten who he really is and every other memory is hazy and static-filled, he still remembers that one promise at the Tower so clearly.

Also, he didn't even just make a promise, he turned his desire to protect her into his life goal. That's good enough as canon for me.
 
Yumelinh

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
Yeji738494 said:
“The because I have you” convo in CoT. People are just purposefully obtuse at this point
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This one right here is my absolute favorite. Cloud being this much straightforward is a rare sight :P Actually, the whole first section of CoT where Cloud is being the optimistic one is such a blessing, tbh.

But I love the one @Purple mentioned as well because it's presented in OG in a non-optional/variable scene. When I first started to lurk around games/ffvii forums I was so confused that the people took the game as an open ending exactly because this convo existed right there.

insanehobbit said:
That's the one for me. I legit thought I had accidentally opened a piece of fan fiction when first read the translation of CoT back in 2005 or whatever. This is a conversation you only have with the woman you're planning on spending the rest of your life with. And I do not mean as platonic roommates who just happen to be raising two kids together (which was pretty widely held view back in the day!)
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This right here also got me confused as hell when I first started to lurk around forums, lol. I think I even commented in the LTD thread about it. I understand that because of the existence of the LTD (plus SE never giving an "in your face" romantic moment for C/T), this came to become a "popular view" but still.. two people who confirmed feelings for one another, living together and raising kids and the conclusion we got was "wow! what a nice friendship!" was so confusing to me :sweatsmile:

That said, that's why I think this LTD will only end once there's a very forward scene that can be interpreted as nothing but romantic. It's been 23 years of content being labeled as 'ambiguous" or "up to interpretation" so the only way out of it is to make sure to be as much as straightforward as they can be in the future ( IF ending the LTD is what they want, ofc).

Be it C/T or C/A, I just hope for them to be as clear as possible and end our +20 years of misery D:
 
insanehobbit

insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
I guess part of the reason the war will never die is because you can always argue against individual pieces of evidence, and I guess that's fine, fiction is always open to interpretation. But we can see the entire progression of Cloud and Tifa's relationship through the Compilation, and it's....a pretty straight forward narrative?

It essentially goes: Mutual (though unknowingly so) childhood crush->long period of separation->"Reunion" of sorts->Cloud's feelings are revealed in the Lifestream->mutual feelings are confirmed Under the Highwind/maybe some erotic hand-holding goes on->They build a new life together, sharing finances, adopting kids->honeymoon period ends, guilt/angst/temporary separation->Cloud works through his issues and goes back to where he belongs, which is with Tifa and the kids. You do not need a Rosetta Stone to figure out what kind of story is being told here.

The only real gap we have in their relationship is the time between AC and DoC, and that's because there's no conflict so there's no story to tell. Though based on their brief cameos, I would say they are doing just fine.
 
Yumelinh

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275298782993842177

Domestic!Cloti is the best cloti!

Graymouse said:
I imagine that more than just the gloves came off that evening.:monster:
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tenor.png
 
S

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
A bit provocative maybe, but I needed to post this, 2b is my favorite video game heroine, and Tifa my number two.
Needless to say, whoever made this is a god to me. XD

(ps: I don't think I've seen any nudity on here, and I assume it's not what it's for, but what is the limit on what is or is not acceptable when it comes to fan art?)

pci5c55jc0451.jpg
 
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Yumelinh

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
insanehobbit said:
I guess part of the reason the war will never die is because you can always argue against individual pieces of evidence, and I guess that's fine, fiction is always open to interpretation. But we can see the entire progression of Cloud and Tifa's relationship through the Compilation, and it's....a pretty straight forward narrative?

It essentially goes: Mutual (though unknowingly so) childhood crush->long period of separation->"Reunion" of sorts->Cloud's feelings are revealed in the Lifestream->mutual feelings are confirmed Under the Highwind/maybe some erotic hand-holding goes on->They build a new life together, sharing finances, adopting kids->honeymoon period ends, guilt/angst/temporary separation->Cloud works through his issues and goes back to where he belongs, which is with Tifa and the kids. You do not need a Rosetta Stone to figure out what kind of story is being told here.

The only real gap we have in their relationship is the time between AC and DoC, and that's because there's no conflict so there's no story to tell. Though based on their brief cameos, I would say they are doing just fine.
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I agree! The compilation has made things pretty clear when it comes to Cloud and Tifa's relationship, but I won't deny I have a little bit of a problem that for you to fully grasp their relationship you need to have access to supplementary works ( such as novellas and ultimanias) and that's why so many misconceptions are still widely accepted as 'truth' for casual players.

For this to end, you gotta make things more straightforward in your primary work aka the game itself. I mean, time isn't an issue anymore since the game is being divided into parts, so I hope they take this as an opportunity to squeeze as much 'Compilation' information as the can and make things as clear as possible.

It pains me to no end that after more than 20 years and a bunch of information later, I still see things like "Cloud just settled for Tifa", "Tifa won by default" and so on going around the casual fandom. As a woman, I find it so disrespectful ( anyone should find it disrespectful actually regardless of gender) that she's still seen as such, honestly.
 
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odekopeko

odekopeko

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Peko
Yumelinh said:
I agree! The compilation has made things pretty clear when it comes to Cloud and Tifa's relationship, but I won't deny I have a little bit of a problem that for you to fully grasp their relationship you need to have access to supplementary works ( such as novellas and ultimanias) and that's why so many misconceptions are still widely accepted as 'truth' for casual players. For this to end, you gotta make things more straightforward in your primary work aka the game itself. I mean, time isn't an issue anymore since the game is being divided into parts, so I hope they take this as an opportunity to squeeze as much 'Compilation' information as the can and make things as clear as possible.
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This, here, right here! I was surprised how many shippers have not actually read the novellas, played the original (at least not until the end), or seen other parts of the compilation. Most are just content with watching streams. If I didn't have all these burning questions after the Remake, and wasn't such a nerd, I'd probably not even care about this stuff. Most people have not and will not accept the supplemental material if they consider the game to be their holy bible. All these elements need to be included in the game, which I see them already doing anyway.

Also to me, the words "open to interpretation" does not mean changing the story to fit my own narrative. The director and the writer obviously have a vision on how they want their story to go. We don't get to rewrite that just because we prefer fanfiction. I do not want FF7R becoming like a sappy kdrama, where episodes are aired as they shoot, and just because some netizens are vocal when things aren't going their way, or they don't want a certain couple to end up together, they force the writers to rewrite the script to please them for the sake of ratings. The writer should and needs to have control of their story in order for it to work.
 
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RhinoKart

RhinoKart

Pro Adventurer
Yumelinh said:
I just wanna see Vincent
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Oh I took your question as what C/T moments do you want most lol. For things in general Vincent is probably my number 1! But I need full emo OG Vincent, the one who told me hearing my stories only added to his sins before diving back into a coffin.....

Stiggie said:
What do you guys think is the most clear cut piece of evidence that Cloti is canon? Because in my opinion, the most clear cut evidence is the conglomeration of the thousands of small pieces of evidence (like the earrings, the smaller the detail, the more significant I find it that they went through the trouble), but I've noticed that if you give people 20 reasons they'll just pick out the worst one, say that that doesn't prove anything, and ignore the rest.
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For me it is the Lifestream sequence for sure. It is quite literally "head empty, only Tifa". She is the key to his true self, the motivation to his past self, and the present one who is able to give him a reason to live for his future. Every time I get stressed by the LTD I go back to thinking about that scene and it just makes it clear to me that no matter how you played the game it is always Cloud and Tifa in the end.

Yumelinh said:
For this to end, you gotta make things more straightforward in your primary work aka the game itself. I mean, time isn't an issue anymore since the game is being divided into parts, so I hope they take this as an opportunity to squeeze as much 'Compilation' information as the can and make things as clear as possible.
Click to expand...

I'm hopeful that if we get all the great Cloti moments from Discs 2 & 3 it will just solve this all on its own. I'm not sure you'll be able to watch Tifa staying behind in Mideel, the lifestream sequence, under the Highwind and not conclude that C/T got together when we have voice actors and the current character models.
 
Graymouse

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
One of my favorite moments is the one in Mideel. When Tifa said,, "Nothing else matters, only Cloud." That one sentence in my opinion tells you everything you need to know about how much Tifa cares for Cloud. She is willing to give up everything for him. Even when he is in a camtos state.

Also, I think her guilt of not telling Cloud everything also plays a big part in her decision. Up until that point Tifa has been a very indecisive person.Suddenly she is able to make a huge decision almost instantly and on the spot when she saw Cloud's condition.

That was my defining moment that Tifa's love for him is very strong. To have someone to give up everything for someone. That is the definition of Love in my book!

Edited to correct spelling. I am on moble.
 
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insanehobbit

insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
Yumelinh said:
It pains me to no end that after more than 20 years and a bunch of information later, I still see things like "Cloud just settled for Tifa", "Tifa won by default" and so on going around the casual fandom. As a woman, I find it so disrespectful ( anyone should find it disrespectful actually regardless of gender) that she's still seen as such, honestly.
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odekopeko said:
Also to me, the words "open to interpretation" does not mean changing the story to fit my own narrative. The director and the writer obviously have a vision on how they want their story to go. We don't get to rewrite that just because we prefer fanfiction. I do not want FF7R becoming like a sappy kdrama, where episodes are aired as they shoot, and just because some netizens are vocal when things aren't going their way, or they don't want a certain couple to end up together, they force the writers to rewrite the script to please them for the sake of ratings. The writer should and need to have control of their story in order.
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I always hesitate to ever wade back into the turgid waters of LTD, but yeah, it's seeing these kinds of arguments that triggers an almost Pavlovian response out of me.

No one is forcing anyone to actively ship or even like Cloti, but if all your arguments against the relationship result in a narrative and characterizations that lack any kind of internal consistency whatsoever, then like, I dunno, do you even like the game/these characters in the first place? If the real Cloud is a Cloud who just settles for Tifa because she's the last girl standing, then I absolutely would not want her to be in a relationship with him. But why would you want a guy like that to be in a relationship with anyone at all?

If you don't like the canon outcome, that's perfectly fine! Fandom/fanon exists for a reason, and a lot of the time, I enjoy it vastly more than the original work. But arguing that your esoteric interpretation is the only one that is valid is just...I dunno what to say anymore.

I'm gonna hop off this topic now since I don't want to run the risk of this turning into a strawman argument. (But also for my blood pressure)

Based on the ambiguity of the OG, and AC-era interviews, my impression is the entire creative team wasn't necessarily on the same page re: these relationships when they were developing the Compilation, which makes sense, seeing that romance is a second-tier concern to them at best. Thus, a lot of important info was shunted off into supplemental material, which again, given the limited time they had for the sequel (2 hr long film vs. 40+ hour game), is understandable, though, I think a poor choice in many regards.

With the Remake, not only have they had another decade-plus to figure out who these characters are, but they also have so much more real estate to work with, allowing the story to breathe and the relationships to develop in an organic manner. I'm cautiously optimistic, but at the same time, the goal posts have moved so many times over the years that I don't think this war will ever end, which is why I've given up fighting it a long time ago.
 
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