Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
Another awesome Cloti video from SassyUnicorn 7!


SassyUnicorn came out of nowhere and started creating some of the best Cloti GMVs I've seen! Her first video of Cloti titled Slow Burn is already at 120k views and counting. So happy to see a Cloti video getting so much support. Hopefully even SE would take notice.



Thanks for sharing. I Google Translated my way through it just to vote for best girl, Tifa!

@Cat on Mars thanks for the lovely dessert! ;)

Same, not that I think my english answers will do much good but at least the multiple choice ones do.
 

insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
Alright, time to bring some bullshit cinematic analysis to the party:

I absolutely loved how the game framed some of Cloud and Tifa's scenes in Ch. 3 + 4 to highlight their strict adherence to social distancing guidelines emotional distance from one another.

This is some basic ass of rule of thirds analysis, but by putting them at the extremities of the frame, not only does the game draw attention to the space between them, but it also serves to make the audience feel slightly uncomfortable. You can divide any image into thirds horizontally and vertically. The subject(s) of the scene will usually be found at one of the intersection of these lines, so when an image doesn't adhere to these rules, it just feels a little wrong.

distant thirds.png

(A show like Mr. Robot plays with this to an extreme, by constantly placing its characters in the extremities of the frame to draw attention to their anxiety and amp up the anxiety for the audience).

FF7R is not shot like an experimental film and largely adheres to the standard design rules. Even within the same scene, we see a basic shot-reverse shot, with the characters in the "correct" place. (I was too lazy to add the horizontal lines, but you get the picture)

thirdsnormalcloud.png

Cut to the Ch. 14 resolution scene, we have this shot, which again highlights the emotional distance between the two and recalls the scenes mentioned above, but something is a bit different this time. They're both in the "right" place, so to speak, yet our attention is still split between two subjects so there is still something to be resolved.

hugthirds (2).png

Which, of course they do, with the hug. I especially loved when we pan out to the "wideshot" of the hug.

wideshot thirds (2).png

Now, look at that framing. They're exactly where they're supposed to be. Feels good, feels right.



close.png
I always thought it was kind of weird that we got this random shot of Cloud and Tifa outside while Barret was having his moment with Marlene, but now I appreciate that we get a nice little image of their physical closeness outside of a mission/life or death context. Growth!
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
Alright, time to bring some bullshit cinematic analysis to the party:

I absolutely loved how the game framed some of Cloud and Tifa's scenes in Ch. 3 + 4 to highlight their strict adherence to social distancing guidelines emotional distance from one another.

This is some basic ass of rule of thirds analysis, but by putting them at the extremities of the frame, not only does the game draw attention to the space between them, but it also serves to make the audience feel slightly uncomfortable. You can divide any image into thirds horizontally and vertically. The subject(s) of the scene will usually be found at one of the intersection of these lines, so when an image doesn't adhere to these rules, it just feels a little wrong.

View attachment 6845

(A show like Mr. Robot plays with this to an extreme, by constantly placing its characters in the extremities of the frame to draw attention to their anxiety and amp up the anxiety for the audience).

FF7R is not shot like an experimental film and largely adheres to the standard design rules. Even within the same scene, we see a basic shot-reverse shot, with the characters in the "correct" place. (I was too lazy to add the horizontal lines, but you get the picture)

View attachment 6846

Cut to the Ch. 14 resolution scene, we have this shot, which again highlights the emotional distance between the two and recalls the scenes mentioned above, but something is a bit different this time. They're both in the "right" place, so to speak, yet our attention is still split between two subjects so there is still something to be resolved.

View attachment 6847

Which, of course they do, with the hug. I especially loved when we pan out to the "wideshot" of the hug.

View attachment 6848

Now, look at that framing. They're exactly where they're supposed to be. Feels good, feels right.



View attachment 6849
I always thought it was kind of weird that we got this random shot of Cloud and Tifa outside while Barret was having his moment with Marlene, but now I appreciate that we get a nice little image of their physical closeness outside of a mission/life or death context. Growth!

I am glad that you brought this up because we were talking about this exact thing many pages ago. It is nice to know that others see the same meaning behind the importance of the characters spacing in the game. At the beginning of the game when you first "meet" Tifa, during the cinematic scenes you see this huge distance between Cloud and Tifa. Especially the scene at the bar, which you illustrate perfectly in your first picture.

I noticed this right away when I was playing the Remake for the first time and was very impressed that SE used spacial distance to help tell the story of these two characters. As you progress through the game you watch Cloud X Tifa slowly bit by bit bridge the distance between them. It was done in a very subtle way and I think it was a brilliant, the way SE used spacing for character building for these two. It somehow just fits their entire story together. I think this helps to "sell" the relationship between the two and made it in my opinion very grounded. This is probably why a lot of people fell in love with the Cloud X Tifa pairing in the Remake.

I think some of the best storytelling techniques in games are ones that are used like visual distance between characters and music to convey what characters feel and react with each other.
 
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Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
This was such a great analysis @insanehobbit!! I love these little storytelling details used to portray their relationship <3

I think another great example is the 'slow-motion hand grabbing' used in one of the cinematics in chapter 12 (was it ch12 or 11?). Right after Aerith tells Tifa to "Follow her heart", the next time we see her is this exact scene where the slow-motion is used to bring attention to them grabbing each other hands. There was no need for such detail in that scene if they really didn't want us to pay attention to what was happening there. I just..LOVE IT!
 

insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
I think another great example is the 'slow-motion hand grabbing' used in one of the cinematics in chapter 12 (was it ch12 or 11?). Right after Aerith tells Tifa to "Follow her heart", the next time we see her is this exact scene where the slow-motion is used to bring attention to them grabbing each other hands. There was no need for such detail in that scene if they really didn't want us to pay attention to what was happening there. I just..LOVE IT!

Yes! That is definitely one of those 'PAY ATTENTION TO THIS' moments. Most of the time, it's a bit more subtle, but there's definitely something about the way that Cloud and Tifa's scenes are "shot," so to speak, that gives them a different feeling from the other scenes in the game. I'm gonna have to go back and rewatch/replay them, and try to take off my rose-colored glasses, to figure out what exactly they are doing to achieve that effect. Never would I have imagined my life would lead me to deconstructing Nomura's mise-en-scène :mon:

In other related my-subconscious-is-really-doing-the-important-work news, I was trying to figure out why Cloud had such a weird >| expression in that last pic outside Elmyra's house. Now I'm thinking it might actually be a little Easter egg reference to that drawing in the kids' room in AC:

easteregg.png

Which makes sense since I assume Marlene is the one who drew it. Cute
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
It has only been almost three months since the release of the Remake. Why does it seem like it has already been an eternity since the release?! Oh, well here are a few tweets while we wait. I really love the watercolor drawings, those are my favorites.



-----------------------

I didn't want to double post so I wanted to put this one in last because I would like to see what you guys think of this. Could the localization be one of the reasons why Tifa was seen by some as "Tifa the liar, Tifa the jerk" in the OG? I would love to read your opinions guys.


 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
@Graymouse I will fight forever that notion that Cloud sleeps in his office lol there’s a TYRE there! As if Tifa would let him sleep there. I think it may be relics from when Marlene was sleeping with Tifa - also spare bed for Barret when he comes over. The reason why Cloud and Tifa awaken in the kids’ room is that you don’t go in the parental room unannounced. But this has created so much confusion...
 

Shadowfox

You look like you need a monkey
I didn't want to double post so I wanted to put this one in last because I would like to see what you guys think of this. Could the localization be one of the reasons why Tifa was seen by some as "Tifa the liar, Tifa the jerk" in the OG? I would love to read your opinions guys.


Yeah, this line in the English OG was definitely the reason why so many people accused Tifa of bullying or ignoring Cloud when they were kids.
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
@Graymouse I will fight forever that notion that Cloud sleeps in his office lol there’s a TYRE there! As if Tifa would let him sleep there. I think it may be relics from when Marlene was sleeping with Tifa - also spare bed for Barret when he comes over. The reason why Cloud and Tifa awaken in the kids’ room is that you don’t go in the parental room unannounced. But this has created so much confusion...

I think the only time that Cloud would sleep there in his office is when he comes home very late and Marlene is sleeping with Tifa. Otherwise I truly believe they sleep in the same room, and I will argue until I am blue in the face the same bed. Just like everyone was talking about that time that Tifa asked if Cloud loved her while he was sleeping. When Cloud woke up he wasn't at all surprised that Tifa was that close to him. He answered her question and goes calmly back to sleep, like he was already accustomed to having Tifa near him while sleeping.

I think that entire thing is just a nasty excuse to not have Tifa and Cloud who, whether or not they like it, canonically co-inhabit the same home not to sleep in the same bed with each other is in my opinion just asinine.

(Ironically though, I think this entire thing is a culture difference between Japanese and American. In Japan many traditional Japanese couples do not sleep in the same bed, sometimes not even in the same room and yet they love each other and are happily married. Just food for thought. Surprisingly this is even starting to be adopted more and more in the west.

Edited to make it less offensive. Sorry about that. It wasn't meant to be.
 
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JT77fp

Lv. 25 Adventurer
I think the only time that Cloud would sleep there in his office is when he comes home very late
Or if he's in the doghouse! You know, kicked out of the bedroom for annoying the wife! (e.g. "go drink in your room!")

Of course they're sleeping together otherwise. They've already spent a night partaking in undisclosed intimate activities under the stars, bemoaning the possibility that it would be their last time spent together. So then they survive the apocalypse, move into the same house together, adopt kids, and...not continue their intimacy? That's pretty much inconceivable, especially to anyone who's ever lived with a partner before. They'd be all over each other. The opposite has probably never happened in the history of humankind, or at least since we've built houses! ;)

It would be cute if they got all shy again though. Imagine after their weekend boxing training: Tifa's had her shower (because you know, she'd kill for one) and it's Cloud's turn. Oops, she's left her hairbrush in the bathroom and can't brush her 6 feet of hair. Does she
a) Wait patiently for Cloud to get out?
b) Say 'gomennasai' and bashfully retrieve the brush, making sure to avert her eyes from Cloud in the shower, or
c) Say "oh FFS, Cloud I'm coming in to get my hairbrush!".

If your answer is anything other than (C), I dunno about you....I just dunno... :P

Speaking of culture, is there any culture that doesn't consider a man and woman living together in a genuine domestic relationship to be married? Even in a modern liberal society like where I live, defacto laws would consider CxT to be spouses for all legal intents. It's social convention everywhere: You can't be a cad and walk away from your responsibility! ;)
 
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Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
I think this whole debate whether Cloud and Tifa sleep in the same room should have ended when that room with a bed and a tile was specifically stated to be Cloud's office. Not bedroom, but OFFICE. Plus, their conversation in CoT clearly suggests they're sharing not just a room, but a bed as well.

That said, SE is at fault too for having placed that bed there in his office ( I know! it makes sense to have an extra bed since Barret used to live with them and comes to visit ofter), but we don't have this information clearly stated in the movie ( I'm starting to wonder what is even 'clearly stated' in AC, honestly :sweatsmile:). But again, once that place was specifically stated to be his office this whole debate should have ended...but ofc...just like everything else it didn't... :sigh:
 

insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
I still find it hilarious that the prevailing opinion around the time of AC's release (even among a lot of CT fans! I was one of them for a brief period of time) was that after whatever went on between them under the Highwind, they decided to be platonic roommates who just happened to be raising two kids together.

I don't really have anything to contribute to this discussion that hasn't already been covered. Short of SE releasing an ACC Final Cut with Cloud pulling Tifa into their shared bedroom when they're back from the church, I don't think there's any argument that can be made that will convince the unbelievers.

But since we're on the topic modern living arrangements, I think Cloud and Tifa should pull a Helena Bonham Carter/Tim Burton and live in two separate houses connected by a subterranean tunnel. I'm sure Edge has the real estate! (granted Bonham Carter/Burton did get divorced, but uhhh...you know).
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Oh yeah I remember the pre-AC days, when everyone thought Cloud loved Aerith, lol, I was a bit more extreme personally because I didn't believe it - at least certainly not in the way he loved Tifa. The lifestream scene absolutely convinced me that there was only one girl in his heart and it showed there.

I mellowed over the years, for sure, and as Cloud says, there's nothing that's not important =) But to think that Cloud and Tifa aren't a couple is completely out there - they have sex, live together and raise a family but... they aren't together as a couple when Tifa loves him? Yeah no. Cloud's not like that,t hank you very much, as broody as he could be during his AC/C days, clearly, if you picture him like that, you can keep THAT version of Cloud, thank you, I'll keep the real one there :')
 

verse1994

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
verse
I'm starting to wonder what is even 'clearly stated' in AC, honestly
I totally agree. I don't know why do they make everything so ambiguous in the game and movie but still state it right clear in Ultimania like Tifa and Cloud confirms mutual feeling. Probably a market move, but considering some of toxic fandom continuously twist what Ultimania stated, I am just hoping this time, re, as we can see now, is more explicit, clear and sound.

But I still can see lots of statement about ff7 is a galgame even for remake, you can pick whatever girl you want, which I think they just don't respect the plot.
 

Celesta

Pro Adventurer

I love Marle ? And I concur that Cloud and Tifa must share a room/bed in ACC.
I mean with Case Of Tifa in mind and the fact that we really only see shots of the children’s room and Cloud’s office in the film.
No woman ask questions like “we’re okay aren’t we?” and “do you love me?” while addressing her sleeping partner unless they’re in an intimate relationship/lovers. My head cannon/or at least my interpretation reading COT is they had just [done it which in part prompted her to ask the question.
And it’s established that they crossed the friends to lovers line by the Highwind scene. I mean hopefully remake makes this more obvious so people can stop denying it.
 

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
I totally agree. I don't know why do they make everything so ambiguous in the game and movie but still state it right clear in Ultimania like Tifa and Cloud confirms mutual feeling. P

@insanehobbit made a great point in relation to this:
Based on the ambiguity of the OG, and AC-era interviews, my impression is the entire creative team wasn't necessarily on the same page re: these relationships when they were developing the Compilation, which makes sense, seeing that romance is a second-tier concern to them at best. Thus, a lot of important info was shunted off into supplemental material, which again, given the limited time they had for the sequel (2 hr long film vs. 40+ hour game), is understandable, though, I think a poor choice in many regards.

With the Remake, not only have they had another decade-plus to figure out who these characters are, but they also have so much more real estate to work with, allowing the story to breathe and the relationships to develop in an organic manner. I'm cautiously optimistic, but at the same time, the goal posts have moved so many times over the years that I don't think this war will ever end, which is why I've given up fighting it a long time ago.

But yeah, I'm here hoping Remake to be as clear as possible so we don't have to deal with so many misinformation and ambiguity in the future :/
 

Yumelinh

Pro Adventurer
Someone posted it in the discord server and I'm DYING!!! :tearsofjoy::hearteyes::tearsofjoy: Marlene is a true artist!! <3

194petgsmy751.png

Credits - Reddit
 

Final_Heaven

Pro Adventurer
Yes! That is definitely one of those 'PAY ATTENTION TO THIS' moments. Most of the time, it's a bit more subtle, but there's definitely something about the way that Cloud and Tifa's scenes are "shot," so to speak, that gives them a different feeling from the other scenes in the game. I'm gonna have to go back and rewatch/replay them, and try to take off my rose-colored glasses, to figure out what exactly they are doing to achieve that effect. Never would I have imagined my life would lead me to deconstructing Nomura's mise-en-scène :mon:

In other related my-subconscious-is-really-doing-the-important-work news, I was trying to figure out why Cloud had such a weird >| expression in that last pic outside Elmyra's house. Now I'm thinking it might actually be a little Easter egg reference to that drawing in the kids' room in AC:

View attachment 6857

Which makes sense since I assume Marlene is the one who drew it. Cute

I adore that drawing.
 
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