Favorite FFVII Fanart

[Cat on Mars]

I personally don't think it's right to criticize the art of someone who is not here to defend/explain themselves.

I take you've never overheard people talking shit about someone or gossiped about celebrities, then.

So, I feel a little bad to see their work being talked down without them being able to take any benefit from it.

I've been looking at this statement for minutes.
People have been critizing my work, in the most destructive and even offensive ways, since I was a teen.
What you said sounds totally alien to me, sorry.

I just get kind of tired never being able to say that I don't like something that someone in the fandom produced.

Same. That's why I wrote that post, I dislike the current trend of making fan art that makes characters totally unrecognizable. And I hate people taking fucking official art or fan art that doesn't belong to them and recoloring it on tumblr and twitter.
That shit actually violates copyright laws more than any fan art or fan fiction does, because altering existing works is explicitly covered under copyright laws.

 

[Yumelinh]

I take you've never overheard people talking shit about someone or gossiped about celebrities, then.

That was pretty much @ForceStealer's point in their post and I explained in my next post why I don't think it's the same thing.

I've been looking at this statement for minutes.
People have been critizing my work, in the most destructive and even offensive ways, since I was a teen.
What you said sounds totally alien to me, sorry.

May I ask what was your interpretation of my statement? Because I was talking about this exact type of behavior in fandom in general. Being overly critical and offensive to someone else's art (even more so when it's fan work, as it tends to be created for personal reasons) isn't helpful or beneficial at all. In addition, there are many ways to be critical without being dismissive or offensive.

As I said in my first post, I don't want to preach anything here, I was just stating a personal opinion on this subject. It’s a behavior I’m sure I’ve done many times before, but I came to realize how much it ended hurting people's perceptions of their own talents without actually bringing anything good to the table. So, if I dislike an artist's style and I don't think I have any good criticism to say I simply ignore it and move on.

--

I don't even know this artist in question, so maybe you guys have other reasons to be calling out their art decisions and if it's this then I apologize for my first post, but I stand with everything I say about the subject in general. Again, I'm not saying I'm right here, so feel free to keep doing things your way if that's how you prefer.

 

[Cat on Mars]

May I ask what was your interpretation of my statement?

My interpretation was that you aren't alllowed to state why don't you like someone's art, no matter how "nice" you are about it. I simply said I dislike fan art depicting Tifa as a brick shithouse, because as @LicoriceAllsorts said, Tifa doesn't look like that and I value accurate depictions as well. Also, what @Odysseus said about characters looking ambigulously brown for no reason.

If you think we're being harsh with our opinions, I want to know who do you work for and in which exact field beause it sounds peachy.

I came to realize how much it ended hurting people's perceptions of their own talents without actually bringing anything good to the table.

Art world is fucking brutal, and Professors roasted our works in Uni as part of the curriculum. In public.
Random nobodies roasted my fanarts when I put them online while random nobodies liked them. What's the problem? You can't please everybody.

So, if I dislike an artist's style and I don't think I have any good criticism to say I simply ignore it and move on.

Hmm. Looks like my interpretation was on point, then. You don't like negativity, that's fair. But don't expect everybody to act the same, I'm done pretending everything is awesome. That's an unrealistic expectation.

This mandatory happiness is making everybody depressed.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I do respect your point of view, Yumelinh. And I would never go onto this artist's twitter or tumblr and offer my unsolicted opinion on their art. That would be a dick move. On those platforms I definitely follow the rule that if I can't say something nice, I don't say anything at all. However, when a work of art is posted here, it feels a bit different. It feels more as if someone who liked it is saying, "Hey, what do you think of this?" and I'm replying, "Actually, it doesn't do it for me, and here's why."

 

[Odysseus]

I think anyone that posts their work to an public forum is opening themselves up to criticism. It's a bit much to say "look upon this and say nothing." I don't think people should be unnecessarily harsh, or go out of their way to harass the artist, but you also can't expect only nice things to be said.

 

[Cat on Mars]

On those platforms I definitely follow the rule that if I can't say something nice, I don't say anything at all.

I knew you wouldn't like my "Tifa beating the shit out of Rufus" fanart lol

I think anyone that posts their work to an public forum is opening themselves up to criticism.

 

[Rydeen]

I think what gets me is the politicization of fandom - heavily altering character designs for the specific purpose of promoting obesity (a platform I disagree with - I think it’s just as harmful as making fun of people/making assumptions due to their weight). I feel like it would make more sense to either make their own story or focus on characters already designed that way. But again, it’s their art. All true art is transformative in some way.

 

[Cat on Mars]

I feel like it would make more sense to either make their own story

No, that's hard work.

or focus on characters already designed that way.

No, not in a billion years. They recolor characters but they barely make fanart with Barret, ask yourself why.

 

[Rydeen]

No, that's hard work.

No, not in a billion years. They recolor characters but they barely make fanart with Barret, ask yourself why.

Well, this artist does do a fair amount of Barret art. But yeah, I agree that a lot of folks spend more time altering characters than drawing characters that already look a certain way.

And a lot of them tend to have that same generic art style that looks somewhere between anime and Disney (usually with random blushing and freckles), which I find jarring.

 

[Cat on Mars]

Well, this artist does do a fair amount of Barret art.

Please tell me they depict him as he is and not with vitiligo or freckles.

 

[Yumelinh]

My interpretation was that you aren't alllowed to state why don't you like someone's art, no matter how "nice" you are about it. I simply said I dislike fan art depicting Tifa as a brick shithouse, because as @LicoriceAllsorts said, Tifa doesn't look like that and I value accurate depictions as well. Also, what @Odysseus said about characters looking ambigulously brown for no reason.

If you think we're being harsh with our opinions, I want to know who do you work for and in which exact field beause it sounds peachy.

Art world is fucking brutal, and Professors roasted our works in Uni as part of the curriculum. In public.
Random nobodies roasted my fanarts when I put them online while random nobodies liked them. What's the problem? You can't please everybody.

Hmm. Looks like my interpretation was on point, then. You don't like negativity, that's fair. But don't expect everybody to act the same, I'm done pretending everything is awesome. That's an unrealistic expectation.

This mandatory happiness is making everybody depressed.

You completely misinterpreted my post and took it to a direction I never intended myself. I was quite clear in my previous post that I think there's a huge difference between being critical of someone's art ( ie. dislike it) and being dismissive, and then I went on explaining what I usually do but letting it very clear that you're free to do what you fit you better. Plus, I was very clear in my first post (and in the subsequent ones) that I wasn't preaching anything and that I think people can have their own opinion about it so there are no expectations here. Your opinion is as valid as mine. You don't need to be so defensive about it.

This has nothing to do with denying negativity or mandatory happiness (how did we even get here in the from my post, honestly??).
Also, It's interesting that you mentioned how "Art world is brutal" and then proceeds to go over about "unrealistic expectations" and how "mandatory happiness is making everyone depressed"... there's a lot I could add about these topics and how connected they're to each other, but I'd rather not.

Oh, and btw I currently work as a UI/UX designer. Definitely much "peachy" than my previous works in other creative areas. I like it here and so does my mental health if you ask me so ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((:


@LicoriceAllsorts That's absolutely okay, imo. The problem was never disliking someone's art but being a little respectful when doing so. Plus, that person never posted their art themselves here (that's probably one of the reasons why many artists ask to don't repost their work as you said...never made this connection myself), hence why my first comment.

 

[Cat on Mars]

Your opinion is as valid as mine.

You're right, we don't have to agree about this since you have no horse in this race. It's odd that you feel the need to defend someone you claim to not know so vehemently, but whatever. We can agree to disagree and move on.

This has nothing to do with denying negativity or mandatory happiness (how did we even get here in the from my post, honestly??).

Because that what social media does. Social media is shit, you have to lie and act like everything is awesome al the time, it gets tiring and draining, that's why people kill themselves. I made a post about this on the mental health thread, if you're curious.
I come here to discuss FFVII, not to discuss tumblr's ideas about FFVII.
I think I have a right to say that certain type of art style fails at the task of depicting accurately well-known characters. I woudn't ever commission a damn thing from someone that looks at Tifa and says "yes, let's make her more buff than a weightlifter and turn her skin a shade of brown for no reason whatsoever".

Oh, and btw I currently work as a UI/UX designer. Definitely much "peachy" than my previous works in other creative areas.

Good for you! And I mean it.


ETA:

The problem was never disliking someone's art but being a little respectful when doing so

Wait, what disrespect are you talking about?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I don't want this to degenerate into a personal fight, but I do think there's an interesting question to be examined here, namely whether we are under any obligation to be "respectful" of a work of art that has been put on public display, or whether our obligation to be respectful only extends to the artist. It also begs the secondary question of what "respectful" looks like, and how we know when we have crossed the line.

We are all artists of one sort or another here, so we all know first-hand how painful criticism can be, whether that's constructive criticism or people explaining why they just don't like the thing we made. Nevertheless, we ought to ask ourselves to what extent the onus is on the artist to try to put some distance between themselves and their work. Do we have a right to expect critics to consider our feelings? Or should the artist learn not to take bad reviews so personally?

Older artists/writers usually don't have nearly such a problem with criticism as young ones do, which suggests that experience makes us more resilient. At some point, we learn that we just can't please all of the people all of the time, and that it's really not such a big deal if someone somewhere doesn't like the art we made.

 

[Cat on Mars]

Do we have a right to expect critics to consider our feelings? Or should the artist learn not to take bad reviews so personally?

The answer is NO to the first one, YES to the second one.

I'll repeat myself, because it seems what I write isn't read and understood half of the times:

Art world is fucking brutal, and Professors roasted our works in Uni as part of the curriculum. In public.

This is meant to break our pride. Some Proffesors are nicer than others, but they all will comment on your work and every student will watch you as they do it.
Everybody gets their turn, nobody is amused by it.
I remember one year when a Professor announced it was time for examination. A girl panicked and yelled "Right here?! With everyone here, everybody looking?!!" like she just had been propositioned to give him a blowjob in public.

This isn't for everyone. Art isn't easy. I know that social media has blurred the lines between professionals and hobbyists, but the main differenece is that most professionals know how to put a distance between their work and themselves, and compartmentalize just like any other artist does.

So you can guess how I feel when someone says we must be considerate and respectful.

And now you all know why I don't use to post here.

 

[Yumelinh]

You're right, we don't have to agree about this since you have no horse in this race. It's odd that you feel the need to defend someone you claim to not know so vehemently, but whatever. We can agree to disagree and move on.

I'm wasn't defending someone vehemently. I'm was simply explaining a point I made that was taken out of context. Based on our most recent posts, we were no longer talking about that person's art, but about criticism in general or ... was it just me? Anyway, I agree we can agree to disagree and move on from this subject.

Because that what social media does. Social media is shit, you have to lie and act like everything is awesome al the time, it gets tiring and draining, that's why people kill themselves. I made a post about this on the mental health thread, if you're curious.
I come here to discuss FFVII, not to discuss tumblr's ideas about FFVII.

I mean, I don't even disagree with you here and I'll definitely check your post about this subject later on, but this is a completely different matter from what we were discussing before. So, I'll just let it be here, ok?

I think I have a right to say that certain type of art style fails at the task of depicting accurately well-known characters. I woudn't ever commission a damn thing from someone that looks at Tifa and says "yes, let's make her more buff than a weightlifter and turn her skin a shade of brown for no reason whatsoever".

That's fine! I never said you didn't have a right to say what you think or want. I made it very clear in my first post here btw.

Good for you! And I mean it.

Thanks!

ETA:

Wait, what disrespect are you talking about?

It's a general idea, Cat! I was speaking about my point in general. I wasn't targeting anyone here in particular.


@LicoriceAllsorts That's a great question! And while I agree with what you said here, I don't think there's a single right answer to that, tbh.

I mean, I think the idea that an artist should learn to detach themselves from their art or more like the belief that every artist will be able to do that is quite naive, but of course, we can't just customize our behavior to meet the needs of each person, this is impossible. But yeah, this is what happens when you create art and publish it online: not everything you'll read will be a good thing. It's a part of the job.

That said, the idea of being respectful and considerate when criticizing someone's work (even if the receiving end doesn't take it as such) shouldn't be such a difficult concept, imo. We're dealing with people behind those arts, after all.

The idea that Art is pain and that "you need to go through hell to be able to reach heaven" is something that it's very much rooted into Art schools and the Art field in general to some extend. And that’s why there are so much dismissiveness and humiliation covered as criticism in there - I learned it like this, so I'll teach you like this too and so it goes on. Art schools have created many artists, but they sure as hell destroyed a bunch of them, too.

edit: tyyyposs

 

[kathy202]

These days, I err on the side of "being nice" and gravitate towards like-minded folks, but that's just me. Sometimes in life, we need people to say the not-so-nice things.

The idea that Art is pain and that "you need to go through hell to be able to reach heaven" is something that it's very much rooted into Art schools and the Art field in general to some extend.

Funny, I'm not an artist myself, not professionally at least, but I see that same thing in other fields too (I'm a Computer Science major). Used to subscribe to it myself, but after a while I realized it was just me thinking "I went through some shit, so should everyone else". So I try to be nicer these days to make up for the lack of it before.

And aside from the topic of art critics... Chanced upon this today:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281166562670542848

 

[Cat on Mars]

Art schools have created many artists, but they sure as hell destroyed a bunch of them, too.

Sometimes in life, we need people to say the not-so-nice things.

 

[Rydeen]

I don't really understand the point of art school aside from the networking (unless it's free). Plenty of good books and online art communities for people to critique each other. But I'm also American where the cost of school is your first born and all of your limbs.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I've never really seen the point of Creative Writing courses, either.
That said, what I do know is that our art teacher is capable of coaxing fantastic art from her students, but it's very rarely the first piece they produce. A lot of her work is about teaching them to look with a critical and objective eye at their art - or, as I think Oscar Wilde said, "Kill your darlings" - and digging deeper into their own creativity to find ways of extending their ideas. She gets very frustrated with the ones who believe that "well, I like it," is a sufficient rebuttal of her critique.
Another friend who was the Head of Art at my old school used to be driven into a frenzy by kids who said they wanted to be artists but would never create anything but derivative anime-style figures.

 

[Odysseus]

but would never create anything but derivative anime-style figures.

Leave me alone.

 

[kathy202]

Funny, a parallel question I sometimes see is why an engineering degree is needed for a job in tech when one could just attend a coding boot camp or self-teach.

I think the main advantage of school regardless of discipline is like what Licorice says, having a good teacher teaches a student to think critically and builds foundation. Having a curriculum prevents them from being blind to what else they should be exploring, such as not endlessly sticking to anime-styled art.

Though yeah, college is ridiculously expensive in the US, so if it's down to purely pragmatic reasons like finding a job, it's not an absolute must.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Why is college in the USA so expensive when most adjunct professors are paid in dog biscuits?

 

[Cat on Mars]

I don't really understand the point of art school aside from the networking (unless it's free).

Working you to the bone, that's the point.

Plenty of good books and online art communities for people to critique each other.

I've self-taught art myself for many many years, and I've attented Uni. Believe me, there's a difference.
Also, online art communites are total shit.

But I'm also American where the cost of school is your first born and all of your limbs.

I was a scholarship student ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
However, there were lots of people paying for their education and learning and doing jack shit because they didn't want to step out their comfort zone, so they simply wasted money because they wasted the opportunity to learn and challenge themselves.
They payed for something they could do for free at home.

Also, American art schools are a fucking joke. There's a reason we don't have exchange students from the USA here.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Also, American art schools are a fucking joke. There's a reason we don't have exchange students from the USA here.

Can you elaborate?

 

[Cat on Mars]

Putting aside the fact that Americans can't speak Spanish for shit and Art Theory and Art History are mandatory here, their level is abysmal. Their base knowledge and entry level is usually pretty bad, and American universities don't teach the basics and drill them enough because they see them as "obsolete".


Post-modernism killed what you call art schools decades ago! American Universities are only good for networking and producing boring and useless papers babbling about pop media and politics. And because they see their students as customers and they want happy customers, American art students these days are more like kindergarteners with money and booze than actual art students.

Med students had great anecdotes of Americans in exchange programs, they were amused but frustrated by them because they acted like they were above the rules and never did their tasks properly. They couldn't even outperform the locals chugging booze, ffs.

Now, our private universities are pretty much the same: you pay money and you're in, pass go and collect your diploma. But our public universities are good and demanding. They aren't the equivallent to your community colleges.
And in our public universities, money means nothing, you aren't a customer even if you pay for an education. Rich kids go to private universities to make connections but go to public universities when they really want to learn and be competent in their field.