Cat on Mars
Actually not a cat
Please tell me they depict him as he is and not with vitiligo or freckles.
Favorite FFVII Fanart
- Thread starter spirit_chaser
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Yumelinh
Pro Adventurer
You completely misinterpreted my post and took it to a direction I never intended myself. I was quite clear in my previous post that I think there's a huge difference between being critical of someone's art ( ie. dislike it) and being dismissive, and then I went on explaining what I usually do but letting it very clear that you're free to do what you fit you better. Plus, I was very clear in my first post (and in the subsequent ones) that I wasn't preaching anything and that I think people can have their own opinion about it so there are no expectations here. Your opinion is as valid as mine. You don't need to be so defensive about it.
This has nothing to do with denying negativity or mandatory happiness (how did we even get here in the from my post, honestly??).
Also, It's interesting that you mentioned how "Art world is brutal" and then proceeds to go over about "unrealistic expectations" and how "mandatory happiness is making everyone depressed"... there's a lot I could add about these topics and how connected they're to each other, but I'd rather not.
Oh, and btw I currently work as a UI/UX designer. Definitely much "peachy" than my previous works in other creative areas. I like it here and so does my mental health if you ask me so ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((:
@LicoriceAllsorts That's absolutely okay, imo. The problem was never disliking someone's art but being a little respectful when doing so. Plus, that person never posted their art themselves here (that's probably one of the reasons why many artists ask to don't repost their work as you said...never made this connection myself), hence why my first comment.
Cat on Mars
Actually not a cat
You're right, we don't have to agree about this since you have no horse in this race. It's odd that you feel the need to defend someone you claim to not know so vehemently, but whatever. We can agree to disagree and move on.
Because that what social media does. Social media is shit, you have to lie and act like everything is awesome al the time, it gets tiring and draining, that's why people kill themselves. I made a post about this on the mental health thread, if you're curious.
I come here to discuss FFVII, not to discuss tumblr's ideas about FFVII.
I think I have a right to say that certain type of art style fails at the task of depicting accurately well-known characters. I woudn't ever commission a damn thing from someone that looks at Tifa and says "yes, let's make her more buff than a weightlifter and turn her skin a shade of brown for no reason whatsoever".
Good for you! And I mean it.
ETA:
Wait, what disrespect are you talking about?
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LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I don't want this to degenerate into a personal fight, but I do think there's an interesting question to be examined here, namely whether we are under any obligation to be "respectful" of a work of art that has been put on public display, or whether our obligation to be respectful only extends to the artist. It also begs the secondary question of what "respectful" looks like, and how we know when we have crossed the line.
We are all artists of one sort or another here, so we all know first-hand how painful criticism can be, whether that's constructive criticism or people explaining why they just don't like the thing we made. Nevertheless, we ought to ask ourselves to what extent the onus is on the artist to try to put some distance between themselves and their work. Do we have a right to expect critics to consider our feelings? Or should the artist learn not to take bad reviews so personally?
Older artists/writers usually don't have nearly such a problem with criticism as young ones do, which suggests that experience makes us more resilient. At some point, we learn that we just can't please all of the people all of the time, and that it's really not such a big deal if someone somewhere doesn't like the art we made.
We are all artists of one sort or another here, so we all know first-hand how painful criticism can be, whether that's constructive criticism or people explaining why they just don't like the thing we made. Nevertheless, we ought to ask ourselves to what extent the onus is on the artist to try to put some distance between themselves and their work. Do we have a right to expect critics to consider our feelings? Or should the artist learn not to take bad reviews so personally?
Older artists/writers usually don't have nearly such a problem with criticism as young ones do, which suggests that experience makes us more resilient. At some point, we learn that we just can't please all of the people all of the time, and that it's really not such a big deal if someone somewhere doesn't like the art we made.
Cat on Mars
Actually not a cat
The answer is NO to the first one, YES to the second one.
I'll repeat myself, because it seems what I write isn't read and understood half of the times:
This is meant to break our pride. Some Proffesors are nicer than others, but they all will comment on your work and every student will watch you as they do it.
Everybody gets their turn, nobody is amused by it.
I remember one year when a Professor announced it was time for examination. A girl panicked and yelled "Right here?! With everyone here, everybody looking?!!" like she just had been propositioned to give him a blowjob in public.
This isn't for everyone. Art isn't easy. I know that social media has blurred the lines between professionals and hobbyists, but the main differenece is that most professionals know how to put a distance between their work and themselves, and compartmentalize just like any other artist does.
So you can guess how I feel when someone says we must be considerate and respectful.
And now you all know why I don't use to post here.
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Yumelinh
Pro Adventurer
I'm wasn't defending someone vehemently. I'm was simply explaining a point I made that was taken out of context. Based on our most recent posts, we were no longer talking about that person's art, but about criticism in general or ... was it just me? Anyway, I agree we can agree to disagree and move on from this subject.
I mean, I don't even disagree with you here and I'll definitely check your post about this subject later on, but this is a completely different matter from what we were discussing before. So, I'll just let it be here, ok?
That's fine! I never said you didn't have a right to say what you think or want. I made it very clear in my first post here btw.
Thanks!
It's a general idea, Cat! I was speaking about my point in general. I wasn't targeting anyone here in particular.
@LicoriceAllsorts That's a great question! And while I agree with what you said here, I don't think there's a single right answer to that, tbh.
I mean, I think the idea that an artist should learn to detach themselves from their art or more like the belief that every artist will be able to do that is quite naive, but of course, we can't just customize our behavior to meet the needs of each person, this is impossible. But yeah, this is what happens when you create art and publish it online: not everything you'll read will be a good thing. It's a part of the job.
That said, the idea of being respectful and considerate when criticizing someone's work (even if the receiving end doesn't take it as such) shouldn't be such a difficult concept, imo. We're dealing with people behind those arts, after all.
The idea that Art is pain and that "you need to go through hell to be able to reach heaven" is something that it's very much rooted into Art schools and the Art field in general to some extend. And that’s why there are so much dismissiveness and humiliation covered as criticism in there - I learned it like this, so I'll teach you like this too and so it goes on. Art schools have created many artists, but they sure as hell destroyed a bunch of them, too.
edit: tyyyposs
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These days, I err on the side of "being nice" and gravitate towards like-minded folks, but that's just me. Sometimes in life, we need people to say the not-so-nice things.
Funny, I'm not an artist myself, not professionally at least, but I see that same thing in other fields too (I'm a Computer Science major). Used to subscribe to it myself, but after a while I realized it was just me thinking "I went through some shit, so should everyone else". So I try to be nicer these days to make up for the lack of it before.
And aside from the topic of art critics... Chanced upon this today:
Funny, I'm not an artist myself, not professionally at least, but I see that same thing in other fields too (I'm a Computer Science major). Used to subscribe to it myself, but after a while I realized it was just me thinking "I went through some shit, so should everyone else". So I try to be nicer these days to make up for the lack of it before.
And aside from the topic of art critics... Chanced upon this today:
Cat on Mars
Actually not a cat
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I've never really seen the point of Creative Writing courses, either.
That said, what I do know is that our art teacher is capable of coaxing fantastic art from her students, but it's very rarely the first piece they produce. A lot of her work is about teaching them to look with a critical and objective eye at their art - or, as I think Oscar Wilde said, "Kill your darlings" - and digging deeper into their own creativity to find ways of extending their ideas. She gets very frustrated with the ones who believe that "well, I like it," is a sufficient rebuttal of her critique.
Another friend who was the Head of Art at my old school used to be driven into a frenzy by kids who said they wanted to be artists but would never create anything but derivative anime-style figures.
That said, what I do know is that our art teacher is capable of coaxing fantastic art from her students, but it's very rarely the first piece they produce. A lot of her work is about teaching them to look with a critical and objective eye at their art - or, as I think Oscar Wilde said, "Kill your darlings" - and digging deeper into their own creativity to find ways of extending their ideas. She gets very frustrated with the ones who believe that "well, I like it," is a sufficient rebuttal of her critique.
Another friend who was the Head of Art at my old school used to be driven into a frenzy by kids who said they wanted to be artists but would never create anything but derivative anime-style figures.
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
Leave me alone.
Funny, a parallel question I sometimes see is why an engineering degree is needed for a job in tech when one could just attend a coding boot camp or self-teach.
I think the main advantage of school regardless of discipline is like what Licorice says, having a good teacher teaches a student to think critically and builds foundation. Having a curriculum prevents them from being blind to what else they should be exploring, such as not endlessly sticking to anime-styled art.
Though yeah, college is ridiculously expensive in the US, so if it's down to purely pragmatic reasons like finding a job, it's not an absolute must.
I think the main advantage of school regardless of discipline is like what Licorice says, having a good teacher teaches a student to think critically and builds foundation. Having a curriculum prevents them from being blind to what else they should be exploring, such as not endlessly sticking to anime-styled art.
Though yeah, college is ridiculously expensive in the US, so if it's down to purely pragmatic reasons like finding a job, it's not an absolute must.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Why is college in the USA so expensive when most adjunct professors are paid in dog biscuits?
Cat on Mars
Actually not a cat
Working you to the bone, that's the point.
I've self-taught art myself for many many years, and I've attented Uni. Believe me, there's a difference.
Also, online art communites are total shit.
I was a scholarship student ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
However, there were lots of people paying for their education and learning and doing jack shit because they didn't want to step out their comfort zone, so they simply wasted money because they wasted the opportunity to learn and challenge themselves.
They payed for something they could do for free at home.
Also, American art schools are a fucking joke. There's a reason we don't have exchange students from the USA here.
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The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Can you elaborate?
Cat on Mars
Actually not a cat
Putting aside the fact that Americans can't speak Spanish for shit and Art Theory and Art History are mandatory here, their level is abysmal. Their base knowledge and entry level is usually pretty bad, and American universities don't teach the basics and drill them enough because they see them as "obsolete".
Post-modernism killed what you call art schools decades ago! American Universities are only good for networking and producing boring and useless papers babbling about pop media and politics. And because they see their students as customers and they want happy customers, American art students these days are more like kindergarteners with money and booze than actual art students.
Med students had great anecdotes of Americans in exchange programs, they were amused but frustrated by them because they acted like they were above the rules and never did their tasks properly. They couldn't even outperform the locals chugging booze, ffs.
Now, our private universities are pretty much the same: you pay money and you're in, pass go and collect your diploma. But our public universities are good and demanding. They aren't the equivallent to your community colleges.
And in our public universities, money means nothing, you aren't a customer even if you pay for an education. Rich kids go to private universities to make connections but go to public universities when they really want to learn and be competent in their field.
Post-modernism killed what you call art schools decades ago! American Universities are only good for networking and producing boring and useless papers babbling about pop media and politics. And because they see their students as customers and they want happy customers, American art students these days are more like kindergarteners with money and booze than actual art students.
Med students had great anecdotes of Americans in exchange programs, they were amused but frustrated by them because they acted like they were above the rules and never did their tasks properly. They couldn't even outperform the locals chugging booze, ffs.
Now, our private universities are pretty much the same: you pay money and you're in, pass go and collect your diploma. But our public universities are good and demanding. They aren't the equivallent to your community colleges.
And in our public universities, money means nothing, you aren't a customer even if you pay for an education. Rich kids go to private universities to make connections but go to public universities when they really want to learn and be competent in their field.
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The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
All of that sounds like good reasons for American art students to do exchange, though. 
Cat on Mars
Actually not a cat
They can't make the cut.All of that sounds like good reasons for American art students to do exchange, though.
Scholarships are even more demanding, because they request language credentials (that was the reason I took Cambridge's FIRST test). Even Erasmus scholarships have language requests and you're ranked based on your scores. And I never requested one of these because everybody knows that they're more vacations than learning programs.
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Jairus
Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
Whew, didn't know sharing a couple pics would cause such a lengthy discussion. Sorry if I caused things to go off track here.
https://www.deviantart.com/raeberry-draws/art/Chibi-Avalanche-Trio-846284631
https://www.deviantart.com/raeberry-draws/art/Chibi-Avalanche-Trio-846284631
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Creative works don't really command respect. I've always learned more from criticism than glowing reviews.
Creators do, though. I don't like looking at someone's art and saying. This creator did this, therefore the creator is a _____ person or has ________ in their personal life.
Re Art and Creative Writing schools, you get a basic grounding plus the chance to practice and build a portfolio of work. Not everyone has good conditions to work in at home or good enough internet. If you're shovelling cement for seven hours or have three kids at home, you're unlikely to get much chance to paint in the evenings. Online Communities tend to veer towards being overly positive or being trolling and abusive.
Also, good art materials are very expensive.
Creators do, though. I don't like looking at someone's art and saying. This creator did this, therefore the creator is a _____ person or has ________ in their personal life.
Re Art and Creative Writing schools, you get a basic grounding plus the chance to practice and build a portfolio of work. Not everyone has good conditions to work in at home or good enough internet. If you're shovelling cement for seven hours or have three kids at home, you're unlikely to get much chance to paint in the evenings. Online Communities tend to veer towards being overly positive or being trolling and abusive.
Also, good art materials are very expensive.
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Shademp
420
- Twitter source
I need a chibi anime of Aerith and Tifa simply being a cute couple together. I need it so bad.
Yumelinh
Pro Adventurer
We've been blessed, lol
