FF7 Remake "Multi part series"

[Theozilla]

I think Mideel would be the place to cut it. The escape from Junon is the big climax, they find Cloud, Tifa decides to stay with Cloud and the party all days their goodbyes, promising to see each other again but not knowing if they will.

I think Mideel would more likely be the opening mission/objective to the final part (presuming the game is being broken up into three parts), with instead the acquirement of the Highwind signifying the transition between two parts (it would also give SE more time to fine tune how the Highwind traveling mechanics will work if they leave its usage exclusive to the final released part).

 

[Unit-01]

I hope we'll get more news during E3 this year about where the splits will happen. I don't know about the 2nd part ending or the 3rd(or maybe even a 4th part). I have a high feeling that part 1 will end with leaving Midgar, but to make up for this, we should be able to go all around Midgar this time.

However I would maybe assume part 2 ends when they get to the Northern Crater and the Weapons are released, and part 3 opens with Tifa in Junon's hospital and the following Sapphire Weapon's attack.

 

[Mayo Master]

Okay, just reviving this thread since we were wondering in the E3 2016 thread about where the "episodes" would be split.
I was thinking of listing where would be the points to make "cuts" in the story to have a good structure/balance for each game - eventually we'll see what the devs will settle for. My ramblings are more intended as a discussion kick-starter.

- Midgar (as end of Part 1). IMO a good point to make a cut. Making the first installment only in Midgar makes for a very coherent structure with a unity in terms of location and its own story arc (where President Shinra appears as the main antagonist). Story-wise, the point where you leave Midgar marks pretty much the end of a chapter (with quite a thrilling finish with multiple boss fights comboed with the motorcycle chase), and the beginning of a new journey (it's even dawning on Midgar ). It would also make the Nibelheim flashback as the beginning of Part 2, which IMO would be a great way to begin an episode. The development of Part 1 would be facilitated since it wouldn't have yet to deal with the integration of a "world-map-equivalent", and potentially lead to an earlier release. If Part 1 only covers Midgar, however, the story would have to be expanded (I was thinking namely on making more missions with Avalanche before Sector 7 falls down), and carefully written so that it doesn't feel like padding. If the "main quest" is strictly following that of the OG, with only side missions in the middle, IMO that won't work very well.

- Nibelheim flashback (in Kalm, as end of episode 1) would not work well from a narrative standpoint, IMO. I think that presenting a whole new context, a new villain, new locations, etc. at the end of a game would be a poor choice.

- Fight vs Jenova Birth on the Cargo Ship (as end of episode 1) could offer a decent compromise. Cutting before that would be really weird, as you'd just cut right after presenting the new main antagonist and the main conflict. The advantage of cutting here is that you could present Midgar AND something else, and give the player a taste of an expansive world. From a development standpoint, you would need to make the assets (models, environments) and scripts corresponding to the Eastern Continent only, which wouldn't be as bad as having to render the entire world. In the story, this point is also an okay transition, and Jenova Birth is a decent boss fight. Cutting here wouldn't be my choice, namely because IMO it's still too soon after the introduction of Sephiroth, and the finish before the Jenova Birth boss fight is light-hearted and comical instead of having much tension and drama.

- IMO there's no real other good place to cut the story till you finish the Temple of the Ancients.

- The Temple of the Ancients would be a great place to cut the story (either as end of Part 1 or end of Part 2) as it would provide an excellent setting (mysterious temple where slumbers an ancient dark power) with much drama, epic boss fight, and you eventually get a cliffhanger ending (if you don't consider that all of us know how the "cliffhanger" is going to turn out. I must admit, the first time I played I really believed Cloud would get to Aerith on time and save the day, which made her fate all the more surprising. I think it would be great if new players to FF VII would feel the same). It also marks a transition since this is the last point in the game where the whole party is together. From a narrative perspective, the only problem I see is that Aerith's death would happen too early in the following episode (could be partly solved by making the journey to the Forgotten City longer and more difficult). From a development perspective, having this cut as the end of Part 1 would make a huge first part, which would be more complicated to manage and push back the release, but having all that much to play as the first part might be more enjoyable to the players (who'll get re-assured about the "episodic" nature of the game). Will the players on the one hand, and SE on the other hand, be patient enough to wait for all this development to be completed? If the cut is made here as the end of Part 2, these issues on development time and release timing would hardly exist.

- The Forgotten City (either as end of Part 1 or as end of part 2). That could be a good place to cut - not my choice since I'd prefer the Temple of the Ancients, but a good one to consider nevertheless. From a narrative standpoint it's very good because you get tension, drama, plot twist, and beacause you're a puppet. Some might say "because the OG 1st disc ended there too", but to me that doesn't count (this reason being artificial, IMO). It would make for a downer ending, and I don't know if that's good OR bad. I'm a bit concerned that it might make for a slow start in the next episode, too. Having a cut here as the end of part 1 would imply the same development issues as explained in the case of ending part 1 at the Temple of the Ancients (and again, some may prefer to have a large part to enjoy as the first chunk of the game), and again these problems would not be if this event ends part 2.

- I do not think it makes sense to envision the end of part 1 beyond that point. Not saying that I can't be wrong though.


- The Northern Crater/Whirlwind Maze (either as end of Part 2 or as end of Part 3) would be a good point to cut the story as well. It's the culmination of a journey through the inhospitable icefields, concluded by a confrontation with Sephiroth at last (although the ending boss-fight would actually be Jenova Death). It's also the turning point where all hell breaks lose, the Meteor is summoned and the Weapons are unleashed. The world changes beyond that point, and Cloud goes MIA. It would also make for a good beginning of the following episode, sans Cloud. The only problems I could see with having the story cut here is a matter of pacing and/or content of the episode, if the previous cut was made little time before (for instance, if the previous cut was made at the Forgotten City, the episode would be too short).


- Escaping Junon aboard the Highwind (either as end of Part 2 or as end of Part 3) could be a good option too. There's certainly some drama, and the attack of Sapphire Weapon would make for a spectacular ending. There's also the idea of finishing on a more positive note than what it would be like at the end of the Whirlwind Maze. Beginning the following episode searching for Cloud could be an interesting way to get started, with the whole world to explore. The only issue, IMO, is that there wouldn't be a traditional boss-fight – I don't think I would personally mind but I'm not sure most players would enjoy finishing the game without the trademark climatic fight.


- I do not think that making a cut when you first find Cloud in Mideel would be a good choice. From a narrative standpoint, nothing gets solved or really concluded.


- However, making a cut following Cloud and Tifa's trip in the Lifestream could be a very good choice. We finally get the picture, and all the puzzle pieces of Cloud's mind are finally falling into place. We get also a nice boss-fight (vs Ultima Weapon) right before the whole trip in the Lifestream which would serve as the conclusion. And in the beginning of the next episode, we could say that Cloud is reborn. I'm not sure there are many points against having a cut here, unless the previous cut was made either at the end of the Whirlwind Maze or after the escape from Junon (which would make the episode too short).


- I do not think it would make sense to have a cut after Cloud and Tifa's episode in the Lifestream, since that would make too short a game to get to the end of the story. In particular, cutting where disc 2 of the OG ends would be a very poor choice.


Now, as additional questions, I'm also wondering two things:
- We could have the very beginning of the story (meaning, Part 1) set at another timing than the first Bombing Mission of the OG. What if we'd start the game as mako-poisoned Cloud aimlessly wandering the streets of Midgar, before Tifa finds him on the Sector 7 slums train platform? Or we could be starting the game when Tifa finds Cloud? Or when Tifa introduces Cloud to Barret to participate to Avalanche's missions? Setting the beginning of Part 1 at an earlier time would be desirable if the first episode only revolves around Midgar, and get the story expanded in that section.


- What of the ending? I'm not saying the final duel against Sephiroth shouldn't be the last fight in the game, I'm rather contemplating another epilogue than the “500 years later” presented in the OG. For instance, I was wondering of an epilogue set at the Forgotten City where the party bids farewell to Aerith once more, before going their own separate ways (I think this scene was described in one of the On the Way to a Smile novels, wasn't it?).


So... what do you guys think?

 

[Unit-01]

Well you must have the most comprehensive form of the structure of the game I have seen besides Square Enix themselves. And even then they only have the main scenario for disc 1 done.

I think every Final Fantasy 7 fan is in agreement over that the end of part/episode 1 would be Midgar.

Ending another part at Temple of the Ancients would be a really great way to go. It's been too long since I've gotten into FF7 and I quite can't remember if I spoiled myself over Aerith's death before hand. But as you said in your experience, you where quite convinced everything was going to go well. Also considering in the OG by that point in the game you could've done Yuffie's whole side quest at that point and quite a bit of other things. As well as visit places the Golden Saucer, which to my imagination will be gigantic in Remake, development wise it'd be a good place to stop say the second episode or part.

Now I am a little bit confused, because in your post you clearly have episodes and parts as two different aspects of one of the games. I need to ask how you mean this could possibly be implemented if the games where going to be structured this way.

As in you say Part 1 ends at Midgar, but Episode 1 ends on the Cargo Ship. How would that work, would Part 2 which would take place between Kalm-Junon be dlc or just be apart of the first disc?

 

[Roger]

Now I am a little bit confused, because in your post you clearly have episodes and parts as two different aspects of one of the games. I need to ask how you mean this could possibly be implemented if the games where going to be structured this way.

As in you say Part 1 ends at Midgar, but Episode 1 ends on the Cargo Ship. How would that work, would Part 2 which would take place between Kalm-Junon be dlc or just be apart of the first disc?

he was offering the Cargo ship as another possibility for the first part of the game, which might go be Part 1 or Episode 1.

1: Midgar
2: End at Temple Of The Ancients
3: End at Lifestream Sequence
4: Rest of game

This seems good to me

 

[Mayo Master]

Now I am a little bit confused, because in your post you clearly have episodes and parts as two different aspects of one of the games. I need to ask how you mean this could possibly be implemented if the games where going to be structured this way.

As in you say Part 1 ends at Midgar, but Episode 1 ends on the Cargo Ship. How would that work, would Part 2 which would take place between Kalm-Junon be dlc or just be apart of the first disc?

Oh, sorry if that point wasn't clear.
What I meant was (trying to reformulate into something more understandable): if a story point is marked as "end of part 1", it means that part 1 begins where the OG begins and ends at that point. Meaning part 1 would either end at the end of Midgar, or at the Cargo Ship, or at the Temple of the Ancients, or at the Forgotten Capital, depending on where the first cut is made. Thus, I have excluded the possibility of having part 1 ending at Midgar and episode 2 between Nibelheim flashback and the Cargo Ship (since that would make way too small an episode). Is that clearer? Note that I speak of "part" or "episode" interchangeably.

 

[Unit-01]

^Ok, they are interchangeable. That's what got me.

But if part 1 didn't end at Midgar, I'd have to agree with the Cargo Ship because of a reason being people want Part 1 to come sometime in 2017, and I don't believe they would be able to do more than the Eastern Continent with the time they have. Unless they have been working on this for longer than we thought. As they said production of the Remake has been ongoing since before PS Experience of 2014. But how long we don't know yet.

Hopefully we get more at E3 2016, but you are the first person I've heard say Part 1 would expand past Midgar. Which in a sense, it'd be a challenge for them to open up all the sectors of Midgar, and make everything unique in every sector. It's just we need more info. We've been given additions will be made, but to what extent we have no clue.

 

[Mayo Master]

^Ok, they are interchangeable. That's what got me.

But if part 1 didn't end at Midgar, I'd have to agree with the Cargo Ship because of a reason being people want Part 1 to come sometime in 2017, and I don't believe they would be able to do more than the Eastern Continent with the time they have. Unless they have been working on this for longer than we thought. As they said production of the Remake has been ongoing since before PS Experience of 2014. But how long we don't know yet.

Hopefully we get more at E3 2016, but you are the first person I've heard say Part 1 would expand past Midgar. Which in a sense, it'd be a challenge for them to open up all the sectors of Midgar, and make everything unique in every sector. It's just we need more info. We've been given additions will be made, but to what extent we have no clue.

I think that it is preferable if part 1 only takes place in Midgar. It's a bit ironic that I'm the first person you've heard of about considering other possibilities for ending part 1, since these alternatives aren't my idea
For instance...

It boggles my mind that people are still expecting/wanting the first part to be just Midgar. Considering they said each part will be full 30-60 hrs of gameplay games, Midgar, even seriously expanded and explored Midgar, would still fall short of that considering you can get out of Midgar in the original in like 3 hours.

 

[Unit-01]

I did see that post, but Channy never suggested a place Part 1 could end, only that it shouldn't end at Midgar. Not to hate on Channy or anything.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Excellent write-up, Mayo Master. I do have a couple of things to respond to in disagreement, though.

However, making a cut following Cloud and Tifa's trip in the Lifestream could be a very good choice. We finally get the picture, and all the puzzle pieces of Cloud's mind are finally falling into place. We get also a nice boss-fight (vs Ultima Weapon) right before the whole trip in the Lifestream which would serve as the conclusion. And in the beginning of the next episode, we could say that Cloud is reborn. I'm not sure there are many points against having a cut here, unless the previous cut was made either at the end of the Whirlwind Maze or after the escape from Junon (which would make the episode too short).

The point I would raise against having a cut there is pacing. The Lifestream sequence is kind of long, and without any boss fight after Ultima Weapon, may make for a bit of an anticlimactic, bloated "Metal Gear Solid 4"-esque ending to that part of the game.

Now, I suppose the solution to that could be as simple as moving the Ultima Weapon fight to after Cloud and Tifa emerge.

We could have the very beginning of the story (meaning, Part 1) set at another timing than the first Bombing Mission of the OG. What if we'd start the game as mako-poisoned Cloud aimlessly wandering the streets of Midgar, before Tifa finds him on the Sector 7 slums train platform? Or we could be starting the game when Tifa finds Cloud? Or when Tifa introduces Cloud to Barret to participate to Avalanche's missions? Setting the beginning of Part 1 at an earlier time would be desirable if the first episode only revolves around Midgar, and get the story expanded in that section.

The opening should not be changed. I'd argue that part of what made FFVII as succcessful as it was is that genius opening sequence in which you're thrust right into a memorable action sequence and have the why of it all quickly explained to you through dialogue as you go.

 

[ForceStealer]

The opening should not be changed. I'd argue that part of what made FFVII as succcessful as it was is that genius opening sequence in which you're thrust right into a memorable action sequence and have the why of it all quickly explained to you through dialogue as you go.

And what they tried and failed so hard to emulate in XIII

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I was thinking that same thing as I wrote that. XD

XIII's failure was in not actually explaining what anything they were saying meant, I think.

 

[ForceStealer]

Definitely.

Like I said in Flint's thread when I replayed just the opening bits. It's remarkable how much better that sequence works when you already know what the hell is going on.

 

[Mayo Master]

The point I would raise against having a cut there is pacing. The Lifestream sequence is kind of long, and without any boss fight after Ultima Weapon, may make for a bit of an anticlimactic, bloated "Metal Gear Solid 4"-esque ending to that part of the game.

Now, I suppose the solution to that could be as simple as moving the Ultima Weapon fight to after Cloud and Tifa emerge.

Yeah, good point, I understand how it could feel MGS4-bloated. Having to fight Ultima Weapon after the Lifestream sequence would be weird though, IMO - when Cloud and Tifa emerge from the Lifestream, it looks like they still need a bit of time to recover! One other idea would be... what if the Lifestream flashback would be remade in a more interactive form? Like having to go through some sort of puzzle game with Cloud memories, instead of being largely a spectator of these scenes? Or even have Cloud's confrontation vs Sephiroth as the actual boss-fight to close this episode?

The opening should not be changed. I'd argue that part of what made FFVII as succcessful as it was is that genius opening sequence in which you're thrust right into a memorable action sequence and have the why of it all quickly explained to you through dialogue as you go.

As you've realized after writing, and as Forcestealer mentioned, having an action opening is not a guarantee of making the game successful. Of course, I do agree that it is a good way to begin the game, right into the action (rather than having 1 hour of exposition before you get to do anything), and it did work wonderfully in the OG. I simply want to bring the idea that we could have alternate ways to open the game in a successful manner. It's about opening possibilities (such as getting more time for Midgar free-roaming later down the road, for instance)

XIII's failure was in not actually explaining what anything they were saying meant, I think.

Indeed. IMO, in in FF XIII they wanted to emphasize on the “action opening” while minimizing exposition so much that they lost the audience. They didn't strike the right balance here.

 

[cold_spirit]

Figure I'd throw in my multi-part predictions...


Part 1: Beginning til End of Disk 1. I really can't imagine a better time to place a break point then with the lost of Aerith. It would be the perfect emotional tug that would stick in the hearts and minds of players as they wait for Part 2. I worry that cutting the story any earlier would force them to bloat and inflate the scale of some event (maybe the cargo ship, like some people have theorized) in order to give Part 1 a worthwhile ending.

I feel like if Square wanted to really rope players in for the whole ride, then they need to introduce the entire cast. That means Part 1 needs to cover at least until Rocket Town. Since The Temple of the Ancients is so close to Aerith's death, I imagine that the temple would serve as the final dungeon. Then you trek north, lose Aerith, fight Jenova, and the game ends.

Placing Aerith's death at the beginning of Part 2 would not be taking advantage of how it could emotionally pull players into the world of FF7, but cutting it any sooner means that favorites like Cid or Vincent won't make it into Part 1.


Part 2: Here's where I get a little interesting. The entire game is from Tifa's perspective. Perspective switches in multi-part series are great because they prevent viewers from burning out on the main character. A new main character also has the potential to appeal to different audience then with Part 1. Think of it like Serah being the main character in FFXIII-2.

So, you play as Tifa and observe Cloud's weird behavior from an outside perspective as you get closer and closer to The Nothern Cave. Once there, you discover the truth of Cloud's identity, meteor is summoned, the Weapons are released upon the planet, and Cloud goes missing. After escaping Junon, you continue to play as Tifa as you complete all four of the Huge Materia quests and occasionally check up on Cloud in-between. Finally the game ends with battling Ultima Weapon and helping Cloud in the Lifestream. I feel that this is the best place to end because it would serve as a resolution to all the odd breakdowns Cloud has had up to that point. There's still Shinra and Sephiroth to be dealt with too, so that could be used to keep players engaged until Part 3.

I imagine some extra story elements will be added here and there, so that will help pad out the game length. Also, Square could use the Highwind and a World Map as a great advertising ploy to get people excited about Part 2. The Highwind could also allow you to visit old locations from Part 1, each featuring new side-quests.


Pat 3: All the new story elements in Part 1 and 2 that should be finished here. Game starts with helping Bugenhagen and learning about Holy Materia. From there, Weapon attacks Midgar and we have all that fun. Somewhere in all this we complete the new plotlines unique to the remake. Then it's the journey to the center of the Planet and we save the world. FIN

Thanks for reading all that! Now watch as absolutely none of it comes true

 

[Channy]

I think that it is preferable if part 1 only takes place in Midgar. It's a bit ironic that I'm the first person you've heard of about considering other possibilities for ending part 1, since these alternatives aren't my idea
For instance...

It boggles my mind that people are still expecting/wanting the first part to be just Midgar. Considering they said each part will be full 30-60 hrs of gameplay games, Midgar, even seriously expanded and explored Midgar, would still fall short of that considering you can get out of Midgar in the original in like 3 hours.

I did see that post, but Channy never suggested a place Part 1 could end, only that it shouldn't end at Midgar. Not to hate on Channy or anything.

Part 1: Beginning til End of Disk 1. I really can't imagine a better time to place a break point than with the lost of Aerith. It would be the perfect emotional tug that would stick in the hearts and minds of players as they wait for Part 2. I worry that cutting the story any earlier would force them to bloat and inflate the scale of some event (maybe the cargo ship, like some people have theorized) in order to give Part 1 a worthwhile ending.

I don't see how this would necessarily have to be inflated, it's a very justifable big event in the game.

The way I would probably break it down is... well, it all depends on how many parts.. 3? 4? Even as many as 5? (Probably not).

I think the Cargo Ship is a perfectly reasonable moment to end Disk/Part 1. See, on top of my statement earlier about Midgar not just having enough to pad out Part 1, going between leaving Midgar - Cargo ship adds just enough. You get to see the real world, which, I think would be important to include in Part 1 because you'd be able to see the transition happen between deep, dank Midgar and the wide world beyond it. Then you get to Kalm, then the Chocobo Ranch, the marshes and the mines and finally Junon. You can even meet Yuffie for the first time and add to your party. That's just enough coverage that expanded upon could easily cover a 40hr game. Plus, you have that moment on the ship.

You meet up with Sephiroth first the first time in the game. Sure, you see the Masamune in President Shinra, you have the calm flashback and then the Midgar Zolom is impaled, but it's the first time you come face to face with him, and this, imo, definitely is a moment that they can make it big. On top of that, it's your first fight with Jenova. Overall, I think it's a perfect place to end Part 1.

Going forward from there, I'd probably go Costa Del Sol - Temple of the Ancient/Aerith's death. As everyone has stated and for obvious reasons, the best place to end Part 2.

Part 3 would encompass regrounping after Aerith's Death/Leaving TotA and going forward until the Cloud gives Sephiroth the black Materia/WEAPONS awaken/Cloud's gone. There's plenty of moment to choose from to exactly end this on... You could end it on the note of the WEAPONS awakening.. zooming through the sky, rustling the Highwind/Tifa passes out... but what would be better would Tifa waking in the room with Barret, learning that Cloud's missing and then he opens the window to reveal Meteor hanging in the sky, the ever present treat that takes us through the last half of the game.

After that, Part 4 would be Tifa leading the helm of the group through their search for Cloud, battling the WEAPONS, going back to Midgar, the Sister Ray firing on The Northern Crater and then journeying down into the crater itself. Yes, the game starts off without Cloud but it's this perilous journey that compounds on Cloud's character and is very crucial and would tie up the last piece too. Because overall you have a large portion of this section rediscovering Cloud, reshaping him into the hero that we knew and love despite his faults and insecurities. And that would take us right to the end of the game.

I voice my opinion once or twice about Midgar =/= just Part 1. But the other thing I think people are forgetting is if you look at the actual disks of the game and what happens.

If you look at any FAQ/Walkthrough online, compare the listed events under each disk. Disk 1 is unarguably the largest disk/most convoluted with story and events. Disk 2 has almost as much going on, but not quite in comparison. Nothing happens in Disk 3. It's the final dungeon/boss battle with some optional sidequests. And no actual story sidequests. Literally nothing is on Disk 3 warrent ending a part anywhere near there.

So why would it make sense to try and capture the entire first part with Disk 1's events when it's the larger of the 3? And why would you try to break down disks 2/3 into 2-3 parts when there just isn't as much to involve? Why wouldn't you break disk 1 down into the first 2 parts and then the last 2 disks into 2 parts but mix where they end?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The point I would raise against having a cut there is pacing. The Lifestream sequence is kind of long, and without any boss fight after Ultima Weapon, may make for a bit of an anticlimactic, bloated "Metal Gear Solid 4"-esque ending to that part of the game.

Now, I suppose the solution to that could be as simple as moving the Ultima Weapon fight to after Cloud and Tifa emerge.

Yeah, good point, I understand how it could feel MGS4-bloated. Having to fight Ultima Weapon after the Lifestream sequence would be weird though, IMO - when Cloud and Tifa emerge from the Lifestream, it looks like they still need a bit of time to recover!

If need be, it could still be the other party members who fight it. I think it would better serve as an opportunity to show that Cloud's strength is back and he's recovered, though.

One other idea would be... what if the Lifestream flashback would be remade in a more interactive form? Like having to go through some sort of puzzle game with Cloud memories, instead of being largely a spectator of these scenes? Or even have Cloud's confrontation vs Sephiroth as the actual boss-fight to close this episode?

Having a low-level Cloud taking on Seph as a boss wouldn't be much of a reward for most players, I imagine, nor would most players appreciate being forced to use just Cloud after a lengthy story segment like this.

Such a decision would also hurt the unique quality of Cloud and Seph's final showdown in the Lifestream at the end of the game, and would hurt the impact of the scene with the revelations about Cloud in the Lifestream. That scene is definitely a case of less being more -- Cloud gets in one good hit on Seph; Seph comes back with a devastating wound against Cloud; Cloud miraculously pulls out the win.

It's all very tense, rapid and visceral, and you don't know what's coming next. Remember, playing that scene for the first time, you don't know that Cloud beat him.

So, you play as Tifa and observe Cloud's weird behavior from an outside perspective as you get closer and closer to The Nothern Cave. Once there, you discover the truth of Cloud's identity, meteor is summoned, the Weapons are released upon the planet, and Cloud goes missing. After escaping Junon, you continue to play as Tifa as you complete all four of the Huge Materia quests and occasionally check up on Cloud in-between. Finally the game ends with battling Ultima Weapon and helping Cloud in the Lifestream. I feel that this is the best place to end because it would serve as a resolution to all the odd breakdowns Cloud has had up to that point. There's still Shinra and Sephiroth to be dealt with too, so that could be used to keep players engaged until Part 3.

Are you suggesting Cloud should no longer be involved with the Junon Huge Materia/submarine and Rocket Town/space portions of the Huge Materia plotline?

Part 3 would encompass regrounping after Aerith's Death/Leaving TotA and going forward until the Cloud gives Sephiroth the black Materia/WEAPONS awaken/Cloud's gone. There's plenty of moment to choose from to exactly end this on... You could end it on the note of the WEAPONS awakening.. zooming through the sky, rustling the Highwind/Tifa passes out... but what would be better would Tifa waking in the room with Barret, learning that Cloud's missing and then he opens the window to reveal Meteor hanging in the sky, the ever present treat that takes us through the last half of the game.

That would make for either an extremely short installment or an extremely padded segment relative to the original game. Aerith's death to the unveiling of Meteor is, what, three hours of gameplay on average?

 

[Channy]

Part 3 would encompass regrounping after Aerith's Death/Leaving TotA and going forward until the Cloud gives Sephiroth the black Materia/WEAPONS awaken/Cloud's gone. There's plenty of moment to choose from to exactly end this on... You could end it on the note of the WEAPONS awakening.. zooming through the sky, rustling the Highwind/Tifa passes out... but what would be better would Tifa waking in the room with Barret, learning that Cloud's missing and then he opens the window to reveal Meteor hanging in the sky, the ever present treat that takes us through the last half of the game.

That would make for either an extremely short installment or an extremely padded segment relative to the original game. Aerith's death to the unveiling of Meteor is, what, three hours of gameplay on average?

Oh dinger you're right. There were parts AFTER the reveal of Meteor that I thought were before it.

Well.. merge parts 3 and 4 together then.

 

[Ite]

For my part, I divide FFVII neatly into 3 (or 5) acts that behave much like a play.

Act 1: Midgar. This one is so clear that I doubt I need to explain further.

Act 2: The Search for Sephiroth. From arriving in Kalm to the rousing of Weapon and the disappearance of Cloud. Like a play, the second act matures the ideas of the first, introduces the villain and the crisis, and develops the central characters further. This second act of FFVII is so long and complex that it can be divided further:

Act 2: The East Continent - Jenova Birth. Act 3: The West Continent - The Tiny Bronco. Act 4: Open World - Whirlwind Maze.

Act 5/Act 3: The Crisis for the Planet. The concluding act (3 or 5) fulfills the promise of the first two and ends the story.

Edit: uhhhh I spend a lot of time thinking about this stuff. FF8, despite having four discs, has three immutable acts (disc 1, disc 2, and time kompreshon) FF9 is structured like Shakespeare, so my impulse is 5 acts, but it could work with 3 or even 4, with each disc being pretty damn complete. FF6 gives the player the most freedom of creative control, it could be a neat two-parter or a multi-series magnum opus!

 

[Mayo Master]

If need be, it could still be the other party members who fight it. I think it would better serve as an opportunity to show that Cloud's strength is back and he's recovered, though.

I'm still not convinced though. I think that what bugs me with fighting Ultima Weapon then is that it would feel very much like "the boss of the week tossed at you at random for no apparent reason". Sure, you could argue that it can be perceived that way when having to fight it before the Lifestream plunge, but personally I think it fits better to have the fight during the earthquake because it conveys the impression of "all hell breaks lose".

Having a low-level Cloud taking on Seph as a boss wouldn't be much of a reward for most players, I imagine, nor would most players appreciate being forced to use just Cloud after a lengthy story segment like this.

Such a decision would also hurt the unique quality of Cloud and Seph's final showdown in the Lifestream at the end of the game, and would hurt the impact of the scene with the revelations about Cloud in the Lifestream. That scene is definitely a case of less being more -- Cloud gets in one good hit on Seph; Seph comes back with a devastating wound against Cloud; Cloud miraculously pulls out the win.

It's all very tense, rapid and visceral, and you don't know what's coming next. Remember, playing that scene for the first time, you don't know that Cloud beat him.

You have a good point. Although, I still think my idea of a Seph boss-fight could be well executed if staged properly. Say, suppose that you first encounter Seph as a boss-fight leading to the moment where Cloud finds himself knocked down near his house in flames (around 9:44 in this video), and then you get to fight him again, I don't think that as a player you'd believe the odds to be in your favor for the 2nd fight.
But eh, that's just some wild suggestion. We'll see what they do. And I think that transforming the lifestream sequence into some sort of puzzle game could be a good concept.

Are you suggesting Cloud should no longer be involved with the Junon Huge Materia/submarine and Rocket Town/space portions of the Huge Materia plotline?

Just a word regarding the Huge materia plotline: I think that it needs a rewrite. In the OG it feels too much like padding IMO, namely because retrieving the Huge Materia or not has pretty much no bearing on the story.

But the other thing I think people are forgetting is if you look at the actual disks of the game and what happens.

If you look at any FAQ/Walkthrough online, compare the listed events under each disk. Disk 1 is unarguably the largest disk/most convoluted with story and events. Disk 2 has almost as much going on, but not quite in comparison. Nothing happens in Disk 3. It's the final dungeon/boss battle with some optional sidequests. And no actual story sidequests. Literally nothing is on Disk 3 warrent ending a part anywhere near there.

So why would it make sense to try and capture the entire first part with Disk 1's events when it's the larger of the 3? And why would you try to break down disks 2/3 into 2-3 parts when there just isn't as much to involve? Why wouldn't you break disk 1 down into the first 2 parts and then the last 2 disks into 2 parts but mix where they end?

Edit: uhhhh I spend a lot of time thinking about this stuff. FF8, despite having four discs, has three immutable acts (disc 1, disc 2, and time kompreshon) FF9 is structured like Shakespeare, so my impulse is 5 acts, but it could work with 3 or even 4, with each disc being pretty damn complete. FF6 gives the player the most freedom of creative control, it could be a neat two-parter or a multi-series magnum opus!

I completely agree. As a matter of fact, the split of the OG into 3 discs is largely a consequence of the FMVs, which were the largest chunks of data (much bigger that character models, environments, or scripts). In a sense, we got 3 discs mostly because the ending FMVs (about 170 Mb in total) were too large in terms of memory to fit on disc 2 (CDs could handle about 650 Mb in total back then).
The split of FF VII and FF VIII in 3 and 4 discs respectively is essentially due to data management, and not something driven by the narrative.

 

[Ite]

I completely agree. As a matter of fact, the split of the OG into 3 discs is largely a consequence of the FMVs, which were the largest chunks of data (much bigger that character models, environments, or scripts). In a sense, we got 3 discs mostly because the ending FMVs (about 170 Mb in total) were too large in terms of memory to fit on disc 2 (CDs could handle about 650 Mb in total back then).
The split of FF VII and FF VIII in 3 and 4 discs respectively is essentially due to data management, and not something driven by the narrative.

Ahhhh disk space management. Good thing we don't have to worry about that anymore! *makes 3-5 purchases for FFVII on PSN*

 

[Channy]

Exactly, I was pretty sure it was data management/FMV reasons but I didn't want to say it because I wasn't 100%. So if you really think about it, it's two disks then... You would then probably want to split each disk into two parts, and if not, still split it all into 3 parts, I've heavily of the opinion that Disk 1 would be split into 2, and not just at Midgar.

 

[cold_spirit]

So, you play as Tifa and observe Cloud's weird behavior from an outside perspective as you get closer and closer to The Nothern Cave. Once there, you discover the truth of Cloud's identity, meteor is summoned, the Weapons are released upon the planet, and Cloud goes missing. After escaping Junon, you continue to play as Tifa as you complete all four of the Huge Materia quests and occasionally check up on Cloud in-between. Finally the game ends with battling Ultima Weapon and helping Cloud in the Lifestream. I feel that this is the best place to end because it would serve as a resolution to all the odd breakdowns Cloud has had up to that point. There's still Shinra and Sephiroth to be dealt with too, so that could be used to keep players engaged until Part 3.

Are you suggesting Cloud should no longer be involved with the Junon Huge Materia/submarine and Rocket Town/space portions of the Huge Materia plotline?

I am. I don't see any particular reason to need Cloud during those events. Even in the original game his presence could be interchangeable with other party members and it would hardly effect the overall story.

 

[Roger]

So, you play as Tifa and observe Cloud's weird behavior from an outside perspective as you get closer and closer to The Nothern Cave. Once there, you discover the truth of Cloud's identity, meteor is summoned, the Weapons are released upon the planet, and Cloud goes missing. After escaping Junon, you continue to play as Tifa as you complete all four of the Huge Materia quests and occasionally check up on Cloud in-between. Finally the game ends with battling Ultima Weapon and helping Cloud in the Lifestream. I feel that this is the best place to end because it would serve as a resolution to all the odd breakdowns Cloud has had up to that point. There's still Shinra and Sephiroth to be dealt with too, so that could be used to keep players engaged until Part 3.

Are you suggesting Cloud should no longer be involved with the Junon Huge Materia/submarine and Rocket Town/space portions of the Huge Materia plotline?

I am. I don't see any particular reason to need Cloud during those events. Even in the original game his presence could be interchangeable with other party members and it would hardly effect the overall story.

It takes away Cloud genuinely taking up the cause of the Planet in addition to just settling personal things with Sephiroth/Hojo/Shinra after Aerith dies, he's the one that argues with Cid about what is lost if they use the Huge Materia against the Meteor because he's had the knowledge of the lifestream flushed through his head and knows first hand Materia are more then just weapons. Any other partymember would just be talking out of their ass.

 

[cold_spirit]

I am. I don't see any particular reason to need Cloud during those events. Even in the original game his presence could be interchangeable with other party members and it would hardly effect the overall story.

It takes away Cloud genuinely taking up the cause of the Planet in addition to just settling personal things with Sephiroth/Hojo/Shinra after Aerith dies, he's the one that argues with Cid about what is lost if they use the Huge Materia against the Meteor because he's had the knowledge of the lifestream flushed through his head and knows first hand Materia are more then just weapons. Any other partymember would just be talking out of their ass.

I don't believe it would take away from his character at all to switch perspective. In fact, perspective changes are often used in narratives to elevate a character's presence in the story. For example, in Metal Gear Solid 2, Raiden is introduced as a young and naive recruit to replace Snake as the main character in order to elevate Snake's legend to the eyes of the player. Hideo Kojima, the creator of the sereis, has stated the switch was done so that newcomers of the series would more easily believe that Snake was the solider of legend, while veterans would appreciate the new take on their favorite character. By leaving his legendary exploits to the imagination of the player, Snake is able to break free of the player's control and surpass even their own skill level. This is especially evident when compared to the often weak and confused Raiden. In Final Fantasy XIII-2, Serah is promoted to being the main character to give the Lightning's absence in that world more weight. In both games, by changing perspectives ,they fundamentally change who the viewer perceives a once well known character.

Bringing this back to Final Fantasy VII, giving a perspective change can be used to emphasize just how strange Cloud is acting, as well reenforcing his anger towards Sephiroth. By stepping into the mind of Tifa and seeing an outside view of the situation, we can form a more complete picture on Cloud and how his anger and breakdowns affect those around him. By removing him for a larger segment of the game, his absence is truly felt and players will begin to look forward to his return after Mideel. Think about Case of Tifa for a moment. By characterizing Cloud through Tifa's eyes in that story, we were able to better witness how his actions affected life at Seventh Heaven in his place in the world after Meteorfall.


Just like Cloud, Tifa and all the party members have taken up the cause to fight for the planet. Tifa would be just as capable of arguing with Cid as Cloud. There will also be plenty of new plotlines in this remake to flesh out Cloud's feelings for the Planet in Part 3. Even the original game makes a strong enough case by just having him journey to the center of the planet to stop Meteor.