FFVII CHARACTER SMACKDOWN - The Neutrals Championship

#26
Chocobo Driver may not have eyes, but he has charisma. So much charisma, in fact, that he's become a well-connected and highly respected figure in the slums. This motherfucker, ruthless and methodical, owns the hobo network in Midgar...He clubs his polygonal hands together and an army of street-hardened hobos are ready to fight for him, and they do.

You cry, they ain't even in Midgar! LITTLE DO YOU KNOW, that carriage is the original tardis and can transport his minions to rock humble old Rocket Town in a jiff. The hobos swarm Luxiere, grabbing chairs, tables, the rifles in Cid's room, gas tanks, pots and pans and lunge at him with their all. The Chocobo Driver opens the door to reveal his Chocobo and it spits in Luxiere's mouth, disarming him. While he's distracted by the foul taste of masticated gysal greens and saliva in his mouth, the hobos grab him. More hobos from the midgar slum appear out of the tardis!carriage and march through the door, angry at capitalism and angry at Shinra, and Luxiere is the perfect representative. Luxiere is supremely outnumbered!

Finally, Luxiere gets his bearings for long enough to remove his helmet, spitting out the last of the Chocobo muck from his mouth. As his vision returns, his acute claustrophobia stemming from a childhood trauma that his military training couldn't quite shake off, returns as he realises the tight space he's in amongst all the clamour from the crowd of hobos that surround him and he becomes paralysed with fear as the hobos enclose on him...

*fade to black*

Background SFX: BOOM BOOM POW POW POW
A pleasant fantasy, but only thing Luxiere will be spitting out is the bones of the hobos he's eaten for breakfast - or would, if a SOLDIER 2nd class ever committed anything as dishonourable as cannibalism. Our hero does pause to wonder why, if this seedy shabby chocobo driver truly owns a tardis, he can find nothing better to do with his days than sex trafficking for Don Corneo. Chocodriver clearly doesn't need to earn a living, so he must be doing it because he likes it; because he actively endorses the exploitation of women - and that's not something Luxiere is prepared to tolerate. He went into SOLDIER to make this world a better place, #metoo, and ridding it of this malevolent mafia sidekick and his pimpmobile and his army of disease-riddled cutpurse hobos is one more step in the right direction.

He'd assumed it was going to be a honourable fight, one on one, man to man, mano a mano - and let's be honest here, only in ChocoPimp's dreams are even a hundred hobos going to be a match for one SOLDIER - but if his adversary chooses to fight dirty (no surprises there) - then Luxiere calls every man and woman in SOLDIER for backup. Shinra helicopters can fly the distance between Midgar and Rocket Town in mere minutes (that's canon).

Oh, and unlike Chocopimp and the Hobos, Luxiere doesn't need to rely on finding materia just lying around. A good SOLDIER always comes prepared. Angeal trained them well. He's equipped Wall with +1000 HP Up, Quake with +1000 MP Up, Electrocute, SP Turbo Attack, Mug, and the Phoenix Materia - plus a Genji Shield, a Brutal, a Laurel Crown and a Mog's Amulet, all of which he won on missions.

Nice knowing you, Chocobo Driver....
 

Roger

Novice DM
AKA
Minato
#27
I'd like to address a mistake I made in my earlier statement. The 50 Shin-Ra Infantryman challenge is only made available after Chapter 10, when Zack awakes from his coma and has already cut ties with Shin-Ra. It is a fantasy, one unconnected with the actual telling of Zack's journey.
The only time when Zack faces the numbers that the other team means to imply SOLDIER eats for breakfast is during the battle in which he loses his life.
This is the SOLDIER First Class we are talking about, the one Luxiere freely admits he could never measure up to or even be of any real use to as an actual combatant in the field whatsoever. There is no basis in canon for the difference between a human and an average SOLDIER Second Class to be as great as implied here. Before Crisis shows us that when push comes to shove, with the exception of the First Classes and those already sated to become First Class like Zack, Shin-Ra relies on the Turks far more for their most dangerous missions, even when they are freshly recruited from outside Shinra. Experience in the field, like the normal humans in AVALANCHE build up is weighed more heavily then the meager enhancements the mako infusion Hojo didn't partake in offers in this world. And that, our weathered Chocobo Driver has in bulk.
 
AKA
Sab
#28
I gotta hand it to Team Chocobo for illustrating these creative and imaginative fables about not only our noble champion, but their own as well...we, Team Moogle, applaud you!

HOWEVER!!!!

What Team Chocobo has failed to do, honorable Spectators, is provide a logical argument for their champion built upon FACTS!!!

As both of my teammates have so eloquently presented, Luxiere is not only a SOLDIER 2ND Class, but a loyal follower and comrade of the hero, Zack Fair!

Cambridge Dictionary said:
followernoun [ C ] US /ˈfɑl·oʊ·ər/

someone who obeys or supports another person or that person’s ideas: The newly elected governor appeared overcome with emotion as he thanked his followers.
By the way, I just heard about what you told the rookies
on your first mission after you changed your hairdo.
"Embrace your dreams. And, whatever happens,
protect your SOLDIER honor."
...I was so moved when I heard this,
it's been my personal motto ever since.
I'm following you until the end, Zack
As someone who has taken Zack's words as his personal motto, and as someone who has declared not once, not twice, but THRICE that he is "following [Zack] until the end," it is BLASPHEMY to claim that Luxiere is “the prime example of the complacent masses that depreciate the SOLDIER name” (Minato, 2018). In fact, Luxiere wanted nothing but to assist Zack in any way he could, offering to fill him in on the going-ons in Midgar. This is hardly complacent OR depreciative!

Is this a man you'd trust to pull through when he finds himself in a one on one battle to the death in a strange environment?
Certainly! Let’s revisit the Cambridge definition of ‘follower,’ shall we? Luxiere is “someone who obeys and supports another person or that person’s ideas.” So what do we know about Zack?

We know he is brimming with kindness; that he is brave and dependable; that he is undoubtedly powerful (Makoeyes987, 2006). But what of his IDEAS?

Makoeyes987 said:
Although he possessed outstanding skills as a swordsman, his principle was to avoid needless killing. That fact wouldn’t change even if his opponents were monsters
We can easily surmise that Luxiere strives to be all the things that Zack was, as well as embody the ideals that Zack shared with the lower ranks. So while Luxiere may find himself in a fight to death with your local ChocoPimp, and while he may easily win, he probably won’t kill him. Like Zack, needless killing just isn’t his thing.

Our Chocobo Driver is always on the move as a solo operative, travelling from one corner of the monster-filled Planet to the other…
THIS IS FALSE!!!

Chocobo Carriage Driver - He steers a Chocobo-drawn carriage through the streets of Sector 6, chauffeuring eligible young women to Don Corneo…
Are you ready Team Chocobo?
This wimp cruises around Sector 6, not the Planet! Unlike Luxiere and his SOLDIER comrades, of course. NEXT.

Everything we know of Luxiere tells us he is a boy, who never expected to have to take care of himself in a grown-ups world.
FALSE!!! Actually, everything we know of Luxiere tells us he is a SOLDIER 2nd class with as heroic characteristics and intentions as Zack Fair. And can we talk more about how he’s SOLDIER 2nd class?

The trustworthy and reputable Final Fantasy Wiki said:
SOLDIER members are divided in three classes: 1st Class, 2nd Class, and 3rd Class…New units are recruited as 3rd Class and the best are later promoted to 2nd Class, and only distinguished 2nd Class SOLDIERs reach 1st Class.
Obviously, Luxiere was among the best of his 3rd Class comrades to be promoted to 2nd Class. AND, what his last letter to Zack (that we’re aware of) tells us is that he was close to a promotion, thereby implying that he was, in fact, one of the distinguished SOLDIERs to be considered for 1st Class. So, simply put, Luxiere will KICK SOME ASS.

FURTHERMORE…

B darling, I know you’re my favorite fanfic writer and all, but I wasn’t expecting you to come up with this fiction! ;)

Actual footage of the outcome of this fight:



Oh, and, one last thing?

*beat drops*

Uh, uh, yeah

We out here battlin, why not make it a cipher?
Wipe down these babies like they got diapers
If this was a rap battle our champ would smoke ‘em too
Clownin on deez Choco’s cuz we #1 TEAM MOOG’

We got Channy and Ite, the killaz from Canada
Spittin cold hard truth, you be sayin “I ain’t mad atcha”
Ergo and Licorice goin in hard with the facts
ChocoPimp ain’t got NOTHIN on Lux’s ATTACKS!


*drops mic

So, honorable Spectators, I think you know who the clear winner is. Don't buy into Team Choco's fake news!!!! GO TEAM MOOGLE!!!
 
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#29
I'd like to address a mistake I made in my earlier statement. The 50 Shin-Ra Infantryman challenge is only made available after Chapter 10, when Zack awakes from his coma and has already cut ties with Shin-Ra. It is a fantasy, one unconnected with the actual telling of Zack's journey.
The only time when Zack faces the numbers that the other team means to imply SOLDIER eats for breakfast is during the battle in which he loses his life.
This is the SOLDIER First Class we are talking about, the one Luxiere freely admits he could never measure up to or even be of any real use to as an actual combatant in the field whatsoever. There is no basis in canon for the difference between a human and an average SOLDIER Second Class to be as great as implied here. Before Crisis shows us that when push comes to shove, with the exception of the First Classes and those already sated to become First Class like Zack, Shin-Ra relies on the Turks far more for their most dangerous missions, even when they are freshly recruited from outside Shinra. Experience in the field, like the normal humans in AVALANCHE build up is weighed more heavily then the meager enhancements the mako infusion Hojo didn't partake in offers in this world. And that, our weathered Chocobo Driver has in bulk.
Luxiere never says he can't measure up to Zack or be as good as him. All he says is that he's looking for leadership and he thinks Zack could be the man. He also says he has a lot of respect for Zack and wants to assist him. Why would he offer to assist him if he had nothing to offer? (Plus, that's the SOLDIER spirit right there: they've got each other's backs). You're confusing Luxiere with the Third Class who got Zack to carry out all his missions. Luxiere clearly has hopes of promotion, since he seems to think that capturing Zack will secure promotion for him. There's no evidence to suggest that Luxiere isn't almost as good as Zack or lacks the potential to become as good as he is. Shinra doesn't rely on the Turks for ALL its most dangerous missions, just most of the ones we see. Luxiere emails Zack at least once from a helicopter taking him to an assignment, so it seems to fly in the face of the evidence to suggest he has no field experience!

Shina was very satisfied with the results of its SOLDIER program and was still running the program during the events of the OG. What it wasn't so satisfied with was its Firsts, its Project G and J sprogs who all went off the rails. Luxiere is a shining example of a successful and honourable SOLDIER operative tried and tested in battlefield conditions.
 

BforB

Too Angry™
AKA
B
#30
Uh, uh, nah, fuckit

Street-hardened and tough in a world that has failed him
His anger and hurt all filling up to the brim
Don’t even think of mentioning Shinra to this guy
He’d burn down their headquarters without batting an eye (hah!)

His superhuman powers awaken upon seeing Luxiere's face
There’s no sympathy to spare, not for this walking SOLDIER disgrace
The Chocobo Driver doesn’t have time to be merciful
He and his hobos about to cop his ass a handful

Trash 'im, drag 'im, whirl 'im around
He'll wish he were never born, that in the womb he were drowned
Hat like a cowboy, hands like an egg
Pummelling this fool until he grovels and begs

You’ll wish you didn’t mess with this Chocobo Driver
More than just an everyman he’s the time-travelling MacGyver
Seemingly harmless but wrong him and he’ll leave you for dead
And Luxiere’s out of chances now OFF WITH HIS HEAD!


 
#31
If Chocobo Driver hates Shinra so much AND he's a Time Traveller AND he has has superhuman powers, why hasn't he travelled back in time and put a stop to Shinra's rise to power? You'd think that'd be pretty high on his list of priorities. Or later on, why doesn't he travel back in time to stop Sephiroth from summoning Meteor?

If Chocobo Driver hates Shinra so much, why is he sex-trafficking women for a man who's a known informer for the Turks?

Maybe he's in some deep cover? Some really, really, really deep cover. Dark and deep.

Solo Player, your post was much better than mine! Nice job, man.
 
AKA
Sab
#32
I don't know what you heard about him
But a bitch can't get a dollar out of him
No carriage, no eyes, he can't see
This driver's nothin' but a P-I-M-P

I don't know what you heard about Lux
But a bitch can't get a hand on Lux
He's got his skills, materia, can't you see?
That he's the motherfuckin' G-O-A-T
 

Roger

Novice DM
AKA
Minato
#33
I gotta hand it to Team Chocobo for illustrating these creative and imaginative fables about not only our noble champion, but their own as well...we, Team Moogle, applaud you!

HOWEVER!!!!

What Team Chocobo has failed to do, honorable Spectators, is provide a logical argument for their champion built upon FACTS!!!

As both of my teammates have so eloquently presented, Luxiere is not only a SOLDIER 2ND Class, but a loyal follower and comrade of the hero, Zack Fair!
Being a follower of Zack Fair (to be a comrade requires reciprocation) does not prove his solo combat prowess. Any child can repeat words he heard someone say.

As someone who has taken Zack's words as his personal motto, and as someone who has declared not once, not twice, but THRICE that he is "following [Zack] until the end," it is BLASPHEMY to claim that Luxiere is “the prime example of the complacent masses that depreciate the SOLDIER name” (Minato, 2018). In fact, Luxiere wanted nothing but to assist Zack in any way he could, offering to fill him in on the going-ons in Midgar. This is hardly complacent OR depreciative!
I don't doubt that Luxiere is capable of supplying Zack with local gossip.

We can easily surmise that Luxiere strives to be all the things that Zack was, as well as embody the ideals that Zack shared with the lower ranks. So while Luxiere may find himself in a fight to death with your local ChocoPimp, and while he may easily win, he probably won’t kill him. Like Zack, needless killing just isn’t his thing.
This is where Luxiere's actual words differ. He strives to follow Zack till the end, therefore never standing next to him as an equal.

THIS IS FALSE!!!

This wimp cruises around Sector 6, not the Planet! Unlike Luxiere and his SOLDIER comrades, of course. NEXT.
We see him exit Sector 7, with our own eyes. That you'd naysay this shows how trusted your words ought to be. Sector 6 by itself houses more dangers then the SOLDIER floor that Luxiere spend all his time on offers.

Obviously, Luxiere was among the best of his 3rd Class comrades to be promoted to 2nd Class. AND, what his last letter to Zack (that we’re aware of) tells us is that he was close to a promotion, thereby implying that he was, in fact, one of the distinguished SOLDIERs to be considered for 1st Class. So, simply put, Luxiere will KICK SOME ASS.
His last letter tells us that he has been stuck at 2nd for 6 years at least. Longer then Zack's entire career at Shinra and he does not possess the ability to change this without outside help. However he managed to reach 2nd, he peaked right then and there.

Luxiere emails Zack at least once from a helicopter taking him to an assignment, so it seems to fly in the face of the evidence to suggest he has no field experience!
It was emphasised that this was a particular time when all hands were on deck, as there were simultaneous attacks across the globe. Even then SOLDIER was not trusted to handle this alone, the infantry corps and the Turks were scrambled as well, nothing in Luxiere's time on screen show he was more then another body on hand when it's absolutely that even the last and least should try to pull their weight.

It is boosted that Luxiere embodies everything that Zack was but Zack protected Midgar, from the streets to the slums. He went out of his way to help anyone that asked and fought crime and monsters. The mere existence of the mob that has a stranglehold on Midgar below the plate five years after Zack left that the Chocobo Driver is a member off shows that Luxiere is either unwilling or incapable of filling Zack's shoes to even the most meager degree.

The Chocobo Driver is able to his job exactly because no one in Midgar either can or will stop him. That includes Luxiere.
 
AKA
Sab
#34
Being a follower of Zack Fair (to be a comrade requires reciprocation) does not prove his solo combat prowess.
Neither does driving a ChocoPimpmobile yet here we are arguing it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't doubt that Luxiere is capable of supplying Zack with local gossip.
Gossip or not, Luxiere's earnestness to help Zack is a testament to his character - to refute your earlier statements that he was complacent and depreciates the SOLDIER name.

We see him exit Sector 7, with our own eyes.
But we don't see him exit Midgar and into the vast Planet!

That you'd naysay this shows how trusted your words ought to be.
FIGHT ME ROGER (but I still <3 you)

His last letter tells us that he has been stuck at 2nd for 6 years at least. Longer then Zack's entire career at Shinra and he does not possess the ability to change this without outside help. However he managed to reach 2nd, he peaked right then and there.
Team Moogle isn't arguing that Luxiere was ever as powerful as Zack. What we are saying, however, is that having Zack as a hero must play SOME part in his own ideals and motivations as a SOLDIER. The fact that he made 2nd class at all is telling of his skills in combat. That's more to say than a carriage driver with little credibility.
 

BforB

Too Angry™
AKA
B
#35
Bitch,

SOLDIER ain’t shit but money and tricks
Busting out “logic” like it’s gospel 'n shit
Won’t you check all ya sources, I dare ya
Research funded by mahfuckin’ Shinra, I betcha

In the words of Professor Minato, 2018
The Chocobo Driver’s unstoppable, know what I mean?
They called us fake news, babies, ChocoPimp too
They just scared of what we’ll serve em, the big hard truth

You know what my problem is it ain’t even Luxiere
There’s a greater evil here and I’m bout to share
Luxiere’s posse scream “FACTS” into the abyss
But ain’t have a problem spouting lies just to diss
HYPOCRITE


*outro*
 
#36
I don't know what you heard about him
But a bitch can't get a dollar out of him
No carriage, no eyes, he can't see
This driver's nothin' but a P-I-M-P

I don't know what you heard about Lux
But a bitch can't get a hand on Lux
He's got his skills, materia, can't you see?
That he's the motherfuckin' G-O-A-T
You know what the Chocobos are fed each morning before they start teleporting around? Mom’s Spaghetti. The very same one that has fuelled THE Rap God since his formative years. So what am I trying to say?

Our Chocobos can rap.
 
#38
Could you address the question of why Chocobo Driver hasn't used his superhuman time travelling powers to save the world, or at least himself, from the evils of Shinra?

Is it that he doesn't give a shit?
 
AKA
Sab
#39
Luxiere is to SOLDIER as the Driver is to the DON
Pimpin hoes all night like he catchin Pokemon
Ya'll talk like Shinra is the only enemy
You know what else is tho? THE PATRIARCHY

Why nobody wanna talk about his exploitations?
Choco Driver deliverin chicks to Don's congregation
Hashtag metoo, my homie Licorice knows wasgood
Don't call us hypocrites when your boy disgraces womanhood
 

BforB

Too Angry™
AKA
B
#42
I knew that this was comin' so I just wanna address
I think it&#8217;s kind of important and causes quite some distress
Cold dissin&#8217; is as old as all the great romances
But before you do that you gotta know his circumstances

You see, the Chocobo Driver has a family to feed
A wife and four kids he hardly ever gets to see
I ain&#8217;t talking about his eyesight, which, by the way
He can&#8217;t get another job that'll take 'em this way

I ain&#8217;t saying that the patriarchy ain&#8217;t a glarin' issue
But as the slum folks know, greed and capitalism done destroyed lives too
He wishes this job ain&#8217;t have to be so morally repugnant
But his family&#8217;s gotta survive, even if it makes him a father absent


 
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#43
I can't do rap, I can only do lawyer.

It's hard to understand why a time traveller with superhuman powers and an army of hobos at his command is compelled by capitalism to drive a pimpmobile in order to keep his family from starving. Why doesn't he travel back in time, buy up great art when it was cheap, then bring it back to the future and sell it for a fortune?

No, the truth is, either he actually takes pleasure from being a small cog in the big grindstone of the flesh trade, or he's a sad, powerless little man with neither the talent nor the gumption for anything better. In which case, what insanity makes him believe he can take on a SOLDIER 2nd class and win?
 
#46
Messing with the Timestream isn't something that can be done lightly, it's all too easy to end up writing yourself out of the timestream or unhinging the space time continuum. Learning about great art before it becomes public, that means you've heard about it before you bought it, so if you go back in time to by it, then you can't have heard about it. Boom, paradox. Time travel is not a toy, it must be used responsibly for the highest purposes. And he ultimately brings about the downfall of the Corneos once the time is right by bringing Tifa to them after ensuring the Corneos last long enough to give vital information to AVALANCHE

Sure, Luxiere SAYS he's loyal to the end, but the moment that's put to the test, he's willing to sell out Zack for a promotion (which indicates to me that he can't or doesn't want to actually earn it alone.) He professes loyalty to several different people, but abandons them all as it becomes expedient, even asking 'who do you think I should follow?' when one of idols falls, because he's canvassing for opinions rather than holding to his principles. What does that say about his honour or loyalty?

Luxiere doesn't have the pull with the Higher ups to have Shinra call in the cavalry for his sake. Missions are almost always done solo unless Shinra says otherwise. And they're not going to stretch themselves for one second who's not known for his loyalty.

Furthermore, let's not forget where this is taking place. Cid's House. And what is the first rule of Cid's house? That's right, it's

"Sit the $&!? down and drink your goddamn tea!"

With his inherent, demonstrated deference to the nearest strong personality and authority figure, weak willed Luxiere will find himself unable to disobey. From random terrorists to Shinra executives, no one is immune to this immutable rule, except perhaps a hobo army and their leader, that doesn't feel bound to common propriety.
 
#47
Cid isn't there, though.

How is bringing about the downfall of the Corneos a higher purpose than bringing down Shinra? If you're saying he brought down Shinra by bringing down the Corneos, all I can say is someone so skilled and wise could surely have found a way that didn't involve the death of millions through Meteor and geostigma.

Ergo: Chocopimp can't time travel. Which throws doubt on all his claims.
 
#48
Meddling with time travel always needs to be done carefully, or else it just forces itself back into place. It's necessary to find the right pebble to start the AVALANCHE, or else nothing happens or something worse happens. It's surgery, not whacking things with a hammer.

House rules apply whether your host is present or not.
 
#50
But only if you know what the house rules are. Cid isn't there to tell him.

So let me get this straight: Chocopimp feels the laws of time travel are too delicate to allow him to travel back in time and either stop Shinra from rising to power or making a killing on the fine art market (which in turn would allow him to give up the sex traffic trade), but somehow they don't prevent him transporting himself and his (non-existent) minions from Midgar to Rocket Town for a smackdown battle with an extremely minor character from Crisis Core?

I think he makes up these time travel rules to suit himself and excuse the fact that he earns a living from the exploitation of women, misogynist douchebag that he is.
 
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