SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

[Roger]

I am not a fan of the ending. For reasons that many others appear to share, and I'm now quite trepid at what's to come. But the ending wasn't the only issue that led me to feel this way. In the OG, actions had consequences. Dire consequences. And we partake in some questionable actions. But in the remake, I felt more and more that nothing carried any weight. We weren't as responsible for the damage after the first bombing. Plate fall caused far less damage than you would assume as we are able to walk the area. I don't think anyone from sector 7 you interact with dies. Out of the trio, 2 survived the plate (that we know of). God knows how Biggs was taken to safety and Wedge was just chillin in his hobbit hole. Wedge appears to die later but that was the spooky ghosts. Barret resurrection. And then Zack (although I believe he will be revealed to have died, but for now his death is postponed). The experience just felt watered down to for me personally. The bones and the muscles were all there, but the heart of it felt missing.

Well Jessie's parents still bought it, there's a whole city sector on top of the Sector 7 plate that was not evacuated even if the slums were. They made clear that Sector 7 was a housing district in Chapter 4.

 

[Scot-88]

Well Jessie's parents still bought it, there's a whole city sector on top of the Sector 7 plate that was not evacuated even if the slums were. They made clear that Sector 7 was a housing district in Chapter 4.

Well you got me there. Still feel the same on every other point but I guess it nice (although that feels like the wrong word lol) to know that it wasn't a complete dilution.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Do we know for a fact that Jessie's parents died, or do we just not know that they didn't? Do we know the upper plate wasn't evacuated? How do we know that?

Scott-88, I think you hit the nail on the head there. Actions have no consequences in this game. Nothing exemplifies this more than Barret's stabbing.

For all its whizz-bang graphics, it's emotionally immature compared to the OG.

 

[Scot-88]

Do we know for a fact that Jessie's parents died, or do we just not know that they didn't? Do we know the upper plate wasn't evacuated? How do we know that?

Scott-88, I think you hit the nail on the head there. Actions have no consequences in this game. Nothing exemplifies this more than Barret's stabbing.

For all its whizz-bang graphics, it's emotionally immature compared to the OG.

You are right buddy. The way the remake handles things I wouldn't be surprised if they did manage a full evacuation. I regret not checking President Shinra's pulse to make sure he wasn't faking it lol.

 

[Eerie]

It's also why I'm so against any of the other two Avalanche members to be alive too. Because it cheapens their deaths and because hell, where are the consequences, the burden? In that, I liked Tifa's scene with Cloud in ch14 because it's the moment where you can truly feel that burden - Tifa is the only connection to all of that, though I hope to see more of Barret's next.

For Wedge, I do think he died thanks to the Whispers, b ut as I said I still think his death got delayed because the Whispers were fairly neutrals and the devs needed a reason for the player to fight them other than "ha they're there, deal with it", to give a reason to the player as to why you need to fight them.

 

[Claymore]

Are we sure that the Whispers are gone gone? Because there is the chance of some Final Destination style shit with Fate trying to reclaim those who should have died, over and over again. Heck, them being alive could even lead to some serious repercussions down the road.

 

[Master Bates]

Actions have no consequences in this game. Nothing exemplifies this more than Barret's stabbing.

I truly enjoyed the remake, but that bolded part.

Yeah, what was that about? Still don't understand what they were going with that. And is Wedge supposed to be alive? Thought he died at the Shinra Building when the "Whispers" kinda whisked him away, and then Biggs took his position in Elmyra's house? By the Whispers' doing? Because Wedge surviving would've been an alteration of the 'correct' timeline (the OG) so they had to rectify the abnormality? But Biggs died in the OG, too.

I dunno. I'm pretty sure I didn't get about 50% of the last two chapters.

 

[Claymore]

I truly enjoyed the remake, but that bolded part.

Yeah, what was that about? Still don't understand what they were going with that.

In what way? Barret dying would have ... changed a heck of a lot in the flow of events. So much that they had to intervene and bring back this major player in events since he just wasn't supposed to die then and there.

It was done to emphasize their push and power in trying to maintain the status quo.

 

[Dark and Divine]

Are we sure that the Whispers are gone gone? Because there is the chance of some Final Destination style shit with Fate trying to reclaim those who should have died, over and over again. Heck, them being alive could even lead to some serious repercussions down the road.

If anything, the Whispers will have to appear in some way, so we can get an explanation as to why Rufus was also able to see them.

Unless he asks the party about them between the events in the Northern Crater and the attack of Sapphire Weapon on Junon.

 

[Master Bates]

In what way? Barret dying would have ... changed a heck of a lot in the flow of events. So much that they had to intervene and bring back this major player in events since he just wasn't supposed to die then and there.

It was done to emphasize their push and power in trying to maintain the status quo.

Oh, I get that. Was wondering more on what SE was trying to tell us with that. We were already kind of told the Whispers tries to set the course on the correct path, at least that's what I got when the Whispers showed before the second bombing mission so to include Cloud in it and with Aerith's mysterious monologues about them. I could at least get on board with that.

But then SE just had to do it with Barret because why the fuck not. That had 0 impact as far as I'm concerned. We already know what the Whispers are for. It felt like they were trying to do cheap shock factor. Didn't like that one bit.

Like Lic said, it's actions without consequences. It's cheap.

 

[Claymore]

Oh, I get that. Was wondering more on what SE was trying to tell us with that. We were already kind of told the Whispers tries to set the course on the correct path, at least that's what I got when the Whispers showed before the second bombing mission so to include Cloud in it and with Aerith's mysterious monologues about them. I could at least get on board with that.

But then SE just had to do it with Barret because why the fuck not. That had 0 impact as far as I'm concerned. We already know what the Whispers are for. It felt like they were trying to do cheap shock factor. Didn't like that one bit.

Like Lic said, it's actions without consequences. It's cheap.

Got to disagree there. If you want to label the Trio's death as 'cheap' because of the cop outs of them ending up alive, so be it, but Barret's was done specifically to show the full power of the Whispers. It wasn't a cheap trick and was rectified immediately.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I wanted to add that while the game seems emotionally immature, the characters themselves are not. In some ways, they are more mature and well-rounded than their OG selves.

I get why they did it, Claymore, but it didn't work for me. The moment he was stabbed I thought, oh well, the things will bring him back to life, no worries.

 

[Master Bates]

Got to disagree there. If you want to label the Trio's death as 'cheap' because of the cop outs of them ending up alive, so be it, but Barret's was done specifically to show the full power of the Whispers. It wasn't a cheap trick and was rectified immediately.

Wait, was Jessie alive? Thought she was dead? Wasn't Biggs the only one confirmed to be alive? Wedge's fate is still debatable, I think.

 

[Claymore]

I get why they did it, Claymore, but it didn't work for me. The moment he was stabbed I thought, oh well, the things will bring him back to life, no worries.

It's cool that you thought that, but for anyone who hadn't played the original yet, they wouldn't have any of that foreknowledge of why he is important. They will soon know the extent to why they intervened, and the power that they wielded in trying to correct the course. Which, for the time being, now seems to be gone.

 

[Claymore]

Wait, was Jessie alive? Thought she was dead? Wasn't Biggs the only one confirmed to be alive? Wedge's fate is still debatable, I think.

Er, Jessie surviving is debatable, but seems inevitable. The glove and the connection to the Gold Saucer are a good bet that she is. Whether she, or any of the others, will remain that way, well...

 

[Master Bates]

 

[Eerie]

I think Barret dying was also a nod to their first idea of killing him in the OG rather than Aerith?

 

[Tetsujin]

I wanted to add that while the game seems emotionally immature, the characters themselves are not. In some ways, they are more mature and well-rounded than their OG selves.

I get why they did it, Claymore, but it didn't work for me. The moment he was stabbed I thought, oh well, the things will bring him back to life, no worries.

I mean, that's exactly what the scene was about. If that was meant for shock value they wouldn't have had a Whisper start healing him the instant Barret hit the ground

 

[billy22]

Are we sure that the Whispers are gone gone? Because there is the chance of some Final Destination style shit with Fate trying to reclaim those who should have died, over and over again. Heck, them being alive could even lead to some serious repercussions down the road.

The next set of whispers will be a dog, an ancient, and a ninja.

 

[Wol]

I am not a fan of the ending. For reasons that many others appear to share, and I'm now quite trepid at what's to come. But the ending wasn't the only issue that led me to feel this way. In the OG, actions had consequences. Dire consequences. And we partake in some questionable actions. But in the remake, I felt more and more that nothing carried any weight. We weren't as responsible for the damage after the first bombing. Plate fall caused far less damage than you would assume as we are able to walk the area. I don't think anyone from sector 7 you interact with dies. Out of the trio, 2 survived the plate (that we know of). God knows how Biggs was taken to safety and Wedge was just chillin in his hobbit hole. Wedge appears to die later but that was the spooky ghosts. Barret resurrection. And then Zack (although I believe he will be revealed to have died, but for now his death is postponed). The experience just felt watered down to for me personally. The bones and the muscles were all there, but the heart of it felt missing.

That's one of my fears... If alternate universes are a thing plus magical sprinkles of light affecting events... Death is not definitive.

I like the characters not only for their personality, but also for the events and situations that shaped their story.

 

[rkss]

@Ryvius Aerith says "The sky. I hate it" in Japanese.
Sky is kinda Zack's symbol

I don't know what does it mean though.

 

[billy22]

@Ryvius Aerith says "The sky. I hate it" in Japanese.
Sky is kinda Zack's symbol

I don't know what does it mean though.

So the english translation is the complete opposite of what the Japanese says?

 

[rkss]

So the english translation is the complete opposite of what the Japanese says?

It's hard to tell. She just says "Sora...kirai dana"
We don't know what she means to say in both En and Jp . They're vague in their own way, intentionally.

My memory is a bit fuzzy but pretty sure the blue sky is about Zack. May be we'll an answer in 10 years lol

 

[Claymore]

Aerith discusses what the sky means to her during the church escape rooftop segment. She loved the steel sky - i.e the plate - because it protected her a little from hearing all the thoughts, feelings and dreams of all the people in the slums. Whether that meant the literal people, or their spirits in the lifestream, is uncertain, but the main point was that her innate empathy simply couldn't cope with the wide open sky. The very thought terrifies her and is why she never attempted to leave Midgar.

So right at the end, you see just how afraid she is, not just of the unknown, but of the wide open sky which means that it is all going to come flooding into her. It is why she immediately says she misses the steel sky after 'experiencing' that memory of Zack.*

* That last part is obviously still up for debate. Whether it was a memory / AU / blah blah...

 

[LNK]

It's cool that you thought that, but for anyone who hadn't played the original yet, they wouldn't have any of that foreknowledge of why he is important. They will soon know the extent to why they intervened, and the power that they wielded in trying to correct the course. Which, for the time being, now seems to be gone.

Even with me playing the original, I didn't immediately think that Barret would be revived. My interpretation from that final trailer was that was maybe an illusion that Cloud was seeing. I thought no way would they kill off Barret this soon. Then when it happened, I was surprised. I noticed the whispers, but maybe that was Barret's fate in the remake now. I didn't know for sure.

I think they revived him too soon, but still, I thought he was dead for sure