LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
Ehhh idk. They implied we would get a remake that followed the main story points of the OG. Which even with chapter 18, we got that
SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion
- Thread starter Lex
- Start date
Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
- AKA
- Rosarian Shield
Exactly, if there was a setup for all that bloated random nonsense at chapter 18 it would've been better.
As if, at least a vague explanation on how fate / timeline altering works and a tie-in to pre-established lore so it doesn't feel totally ramdon, more fleshed-out motivations for each character to go onboard in defeating a metaphysical entity and the consequences of said action...
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LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
I didn't really like the dancing, because Cloud doesn't seem like the type of person to do that. But, it was pretty funny haha
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
I don’t think anyone is arguing against expanding and elaborating. I tried to go through the game asking myself “if this was a hidden secret in the original game would I be thrilled?” You can compare the expanded trio stuff to the Radagast stuff, because it plausibly takes place within the fiction, you know, the thing we bought the ticket for.
But Chapters 16-18... what the fuck was that? You can’t call that FFVII, it didn’t even resemble the structure of the original sequence.
Kain424
Old Man in the Room
I personally thought it was sloppily done. Even if my interpretation is correct, I think it was a bad move.
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
When it comes to being lied to, IMO you don't. But, that's just me.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
I’m just gutted. They took the gold standard of tower adventures and replaced it with... what? There was no drama, just a lot of people falling off things and getting grabbed by their wrists. Sephiroth stabs that are meaningless. Vague Nomura shit. Several character’s secrets hastily divulged, sapping the later story of its impact with no discernible impact now. They just took the story — not just Shinra HQ, but the whole story, and hucked it out the window to replace it with what?? A round dungeon with some levers? “Surprises” for “complacent fans”? That’s fuckin dumb.
Kain424
Old Man in the Room
Well, I wouldn't say they hucked the whole story. But they've certainly moved beats around. I miss some of the quieter moments, like the prison cell talk and the moment of shock when the crew find Shinra's corpse. But I suppose we'll see. They're going to have to start really damn good again in the next part to make up for the bungled final few hours of this one.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
It's as X said, they clearly lacked time to make a more cohesive ending, I think. But watching a few gameplays, I'm amazed at how different the ending team fighting Sephiroth can be (a friend of mine had Cloud/Barret/Tifa and when I told him you could get anyone and some people had Cloud/Aerith/Tifa he was like "whaaaaaat it would have been so much easier" hahaha) with various possibilities. I still wonder how the game decides that, if it's totally random (it looks so?). So while it was rushed, they also took a lot of care still - they could have done one team and be done with it, but instead we get multiple scenarios on who comes to help Cloud first, who comes to save him as the 3rd party member, etc. It maybe comes from them wanting to showcase that everyone helped in that fight, even if they are limited by the number of party members.
I'll also add that Kotaku's review is incredibly spot on. A lot of people who were very negative at first have turned around once they sat and thought about it (others don't! It all depends on people), so it's all based on what you expect from a Remake and how much you are able to trust the dev team I guess. A lot of people here are burned by KH, which is why they react so negatively on the ending, because they fear for what's to come, while those who trust the dev team tend to be very excited (like Max Dood). I'm very excited, but also very cautious, but if anything, the dev team has showed me that they still know their characters and they still know their story, so I tend to trust them.
Like, I still believe that Zack is dead due to Aerith's reaction of sadness, that the golden dust is just metaphore for Midgard healing etc. For sure the biggest loop is Biggs being alive, but as I said elsewhere, I can live with one Avalanche member being alive.
I'll also add that Kotaku's review is incredibly spot on. A lot of people who were very negative at first have turned around once they sat and thought about it (others don't! It all depends on people), so it's all based on what you expect from a Remake and how much you are able to trust the dev team I guess. A lot of people here are burned by KH, which is why they react so negatively on the ending, because they fear for what's to come, while those who trust the dev team tend to be very excited (like Max Dood). I'm very excited, but also very cautious, but if anything, the dev team has showed me that they still know their characters and they still know their story, so I tend to trust them.
Like, I still believe that Zack is dead due to Aerith's reaction of sadness, that the golden dust is just metaphore for Midgard healing etc. For sure the biggest loop is Biggs being alive, but as I said elsewhere, I can live with one Avalanche member being alive.
Rydeen
In-KWEH-dible
Uh...
What.......
was that?
I actually just watched Chapter 18 and skipped over a lot of the fighting since the time, even capped, that I've been sinking into the game has continued to throw my life a little too off balance. Even if I'd put in for PTO, I would have cancelled it because I don't feel right taking leave from covid related work.
I knew that the ending was going to be different, and controversial. I was hoping I'd be on the optimistic side, but instead I'm confused and disoriented. As an ending to what was intended to be a full product, it was bad. The narrative switched gears very abruptly. It was a rushed ending and they tried to do too much. However, to play devils advocate, perhaps the unifying theme of the game is: freedom (which includes freedom from oppression - as well as within the timeline) vs. security (represented by Shinra).
Also.
If we think back to the first time we played the OG, most of us found it quite convoluted. It was messy in certain ways.
Although I feel that this was a bad ending to a standalone product, I don't necessarily feel that they've ruined FFVII. I do think the way they are toying with it is like playing Russian Roulette and will make or break this franchise.
There is so little information to go on, that it seems like it could be anything. Worst case scenario, time travel is involved, and this is a sequel wherein AC Seph is messing around with the past. As a huge time travel enthusiast, I believe that in order to do it right you need to direct your full attention to it, which would not be the case in FFVIIR.
The biggest questions I'm left with: is this the same "timeline" as the OG? Why did the whispers prevent Barret from dying, yet appear to be working in Sephiroth's favor? Are deaths going to be retconned? Does the sparkly crap in the air signify a timeline change? Yikes - these thoughts are very unpleasant.
Something I liked about the ending: Aerith saying that she missed the steel sky. The lack of steel sky represents freedom. The steel sky is unnatural and unhealthy, but it is a canopy of security. I believe that this may also be an attempt to communicate with the long time player - that we were expecting the warm comforts of one of our favorite games, and that the developers want to challenge, or even rebel against that. That they want us to feel uneasy and force to embrace change, just like they'd forced us to accept that Aerith could not be brought back to life.
I haven't really delved into the theories or even any reviews. These are just my raw, fresh thoughts.
What.......
was that?
I actually just watched Chapter 18 and skipped over a lot of the fighting since the time, even capped, that I've been sinking into the game has continued to throw my life a little too off balance. Even if I'd put in for PTO, I would have cancelled it because I don't feel right taking leave from covid related work.
I knew that the ending was going to be different, and controversial. I was hoping I'd be on the optimistic side, but instead I'm confused and disoriented. As an ending to what was intended to be a full product, it was bad. The narrative switched gears very abruptly. It was a rushed ending and they tried to do too much. However, to play devils advocate, perhaps the unifying theme of the game is: freedom (which includes freedom from oppression - as well as within the timeline) vs. security (represented by Shinra).
Also.
If we think back to the first time we played the OG, most of us found it quite convoluted. It was messy in certain ways.
Although I feel that this was a bad ending to a standalone product, I don't necessarily feel that they've ruined FFVII. I do think the way they are toying with it is like playing Russian Roulette and will make or break this franchise.
There is so little information to go on, that it seems like it could be anything. Worst case scenario, time travel is involved, and this is a sequel wherein AC Seph is messing around with the past. As a huge time travel enthusiast, I believe that in order to do it right you need to direct your full attention to it, which would not be the case in FFVIIR.
The biggest questions I'm left with: is this the same "timeline" as the OG? Why did the whispers prevent Barret from dying, yet appear to be working in Sephiroth's favor? Are deaths going to be retconned? Does the sparkly crap in the air signify a timeline change? Yikes - these thoughts are very unpleasant.
Something I liked about the ending: Aerith saying that she missed the steel sky. The lack of steel sky represents freedom. The steel sky is unnatural and unhealthy, but it is a canopy of security. I believe that this may also be an attempt to communicate with the long time player - that we were expecting the warm comforts of one of our favorite games, and that the developers want to challenge, or even rebel against that. That they want us to feel uneasy and force to embrace change, just like they'd forced us to accept that Aerith could not be brought back to life.
I haven't really delved into the theories or even any reviews. These are just my raw, fresh thoughts.
Noble0ne
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Noble
Hahahaha.... Join the club.
Everyone seems to see a different interpretation of where it's headed.
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Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
That's a very sharp eye'd observation.
I get why a lot of folks are focused so squarely on the new shit added throughout the ending, but getting fixated so much on what's ostensibly resolved and being gripped by it's potential worst-case fear, is sorta missing the forest for the trees.
Even if you didn't like it, that still leaves at least 4/5ths of the game that was done right without it, and those parts did carry changes. Extensive ones. That doesn't mean that was some freak anomaly.
Granted, it simply boils down to trust. However, even if they were to just do the least amount of effort and replicate the same formula they used here, it would still be a game 95% in line with the original, with just a fraction of it devoted to their new shit. There's nothing that confirms a sudden massive time travel plot with 2 Sephiroths on the Planet or a time paradox of Zack walking around alive while Cloud carries his sword on his back.
It's a mystery. A purposeful unknown. A reset that leaves the roads before us hidden, yet one has to trust the destinations will ultimately be the same. They wanna do creative changes, but that doesn't mean a 180 of the project/story.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
One thing I do kind of like is Aerith feeling that Midgar is safety. The steel sky, a roof over her head, protects her. Out in the open world there's nothing but danger, and, who knows, maybe death. I am currently telling myself that she only vaguely senses; she has no absolute knowledge.
Kain424
Old Man in the Room
On the upside, there doesn't appear to be any time travel. Some low-key retcons, yeah, but not straight up time travel.
On the downside, their manner of implementing a big crazy boss fight and also cosmic stakes involving Sephiroth is messy and largely just imbalanced compared to most of the rest of the game.
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
That reminds me of the character from Shawshank Redemption. He was finally released from prison, to only commit suicide shortly after. He felt safe/comfortable inside prison, instead of out of it.
Rydeen
In-KWEH-dible
I really, really hope that's the case. I'm ok with some substantial alterations, but not time travel or Aerith/Zack death retcons. Anything but that.
I enjoyed many of the changes throughout the game. They made it more suspenseful for a long time player. Some of the changes I think were bad, though, like bringing both Biggs and Wedge back, and pretending to kill Barret in what appeared to be a cheap "thrill." I also think platefall was done a little better in the original. I feel like I'm able to begrudgingly look past that, though.
Overall, I can tell that in spite of the rushed ending, and some of what I believe to be dungeon filler, they worked really hard on this game, probably harder than on any compilation title they've released, imo. Though I think I'll need to establish some distance before I can do a comprehensive review, or possibly even play the other parts as a cohesive whole. It was quite an overwhelming experience. Unfortunately I also don't have the ability to see this through the lens of a first time player.
Another concern of mine is how the recession will effect the quality of subsequent games (and uh, kinda the recession in general
).
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I would have thought the video game industry is one on which the recession will have the least impact. Unemployed people on benefits need something interesting to do. Video games are relatively cheap entertainment. I paid 100 euros for my FFVIIRemake. Divide that by the amount of playing time I'm going to get out of it, and it has cost me about a euro an hour, or less.
Years ago I was reading a book about the future of the video game industry, and the author wrote a line that has stuck with me. "People need never lead lives of quiet desperation again." Thanks to video games, you can escape into other worlds, which are always full of excitement, friendship, teamwork, and adventure. It's not real, you say? But what is "real", any more?
So, yeah, I wouldn't worry about the quality of games going downhill during a recession. Plus, a lot of unemployed but talented people will use their free time to finish that indie game they've always wanted to make.
Years ago I was reading a book about the future of the video game industry, and the author wrote a line that has stuck with me. "People need never lead lives of quiet desperation again." Thanks to video games, you can escape into other worlds, which are always full of excitement, friendship, teamwork, and adventure. It's not real, you say? But what is "real", any more?
So, yeah, I wouldn't worry about the quality of games going downhill during a recession. Plus, a lot of unemployed but talented people will use their free time to finish that indie game they've always wanted to make.
Rydeen
In-KWEH-dible
I personally feel that the quality of video games was very low (and formulaic) between 2008 and 2012, but that is subjective, and could possibly be a coincidence. I feel that entertainment in general was very formulaic during this time, probably as risk aversion. However, FFVII is guaranteed to be successful, so hopefully adequate resources and creativity can still be poured into it.
Scot-88
Lv. 25 Adventurer
- AKA
- Scot
I am not a fan of the ending. For reasons that many others appear to share, and I'm now quite trepid at what's to come. But the ending wasn't the only issue that led me to feel this way. In the OG, actions had consequences. Dire consequences. And we partake in some questionable actions. But in the remake, I felt more and more that nothing carried any weight. We weren't as responsible for the damage after the first bombing. Plate fall caused far less damage than you would assume as we are able to walk the area. I don't think anyone from sector 7 you interact with dies. Out of the trio, 2 survived the plate (that we know of). God knows how Biggs was taken to safety and Wedge was just chillin in his hobbit hole. Wedge appears to die later but that was the spooky ghosts. Barret resurrection. And then Zack (although I believe he will be revealed to have died, but for now his death is postponed). The experience just felt watered down to for me personally. The bones and the muscles were all there, but the heart of it felt missing.