Final Fantasy Tactics Community Playthrough

AvecAloes

Donator
Chapter 10

Chapter 10

Discussion:
  • Did any of these battles give you trouble?
    Yes, the final one, the one associated with the cutscene. My original setup was Ramza, Agrias, my ladyDragoon who is now a Dancer with Jump, my dude Summoner, and my lady WHM who is now an Arithmetician with White Magic abilities. Agrias and my ladyDragoon were both Charmed, my SMN went down, and Ramza kept dying. So the next time, I went in with Ramza, Orlandeau, my SMN, and my ladyDragoon (I just kept her waaay out of the way). That time went much better.


  • Things in the story mostly went down as Delita outlined, what do you think about the ways it deviated?
    INTRIGUE. But no it's really interesting and sad to see how much is going on that is out of the hands of those who even think they have a good handle on the situations, and every step in this story makes me feel more and more sad for Ramza...


  • Were you surprised by the conclusion of the Beowulf quest? Does this change your mind about who you might use?
    No surprise, given that I've played the game before. It probably won't change my Story Battle party much, but I have been enjoying using this character in random battles.


  • Thoughts about that last quest and/or the way it was done? Did you already know about this, or was it a surprise? Do you think you'll bother to use the new character?
    Already knew :monster: I don't know that I'll be using this character very much, given the grind it would take to make them that useful. Neat to have around for the occasional random battle, though!

 

Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
I just died four times in a row fighting some big demons. I'm gonna try again later :reptar:
 

Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
I can uuuuusually get through the one-on-one easily enough, but it's the next fight that sucks. I did kill all three demons in my last attempt and it was just the group and Belias... but he killed Ramza and stoned everyone. :closedmonster: Gonna attempt it again shortly.
 

Jason Tandro

Banned
AKA
Jason Tandro, Doc Brown, Santa Christ, FearAddict, Thibault Stormrunner, RN: Micah Rodney
^ If you can believe it, the following fight is even more annoying because it's purely luck based as he said. That said, this is the last major hurdle of the game until the final few fights, and you have a super powered ally for those.
 

Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
WELL THANK FUCK I DID IT

Oh my gawd I finally beat that fight. Here's a rundown of how it finally happened~
My party set-up was: Ramza Dragoon, Female Monk, Male Chemist with White Mage secondary abilities, Agrias Holy Knight, and Luso as his Game Hunter(?).

I sent Ramza up into the fray basically, after healing himself twice. He became the distraction, which allowed me to set up the rest of my party. Used Luso's Tailwind ability (after finding that tip here and via Kimble on Skype) on himself and my Chemist. Literally I shoved those two in the back and just kept speeding them up. Sent Agrias to the left and my Monk in reserve.
Ended up miraculously getting one of the archdemon things killed early on. Agrais used her Divine Ruination skill to confuse another, which took time to attack Belias and his pal. Seriously, confusing them works out quite well. Second Archdemon was killed somehow, I forget.

Was able to seperate Belias and his confused pal. Ramza took out the last archdemon while my Monk and Luso closed in on Belias, who was on the side path. Belias kept petrifying Luso, and each time I would just use my Chemist to toss a gold needle. It was glorious. Had Luso and the Monk take turns whacking the guy, and soon Ramza joined in. (Agrias kept dying)
Had a moment where Belias suddenly decided to petrify the Chemist instead. But then two hits later he was dead. :wacky: Literally made my night, omfg I think this was my seventh try with this battle.

Anyways it worked, yay, fuck that battle, ain't goin' back. :wacky:


Discussion:
  • Grand Duke Barrington's a slimy POS, isn't he? Any comments on the Rapha/Marach plot thread?
    Yes, he's a piece of shit. Was happy to see him caught by surprise, grabbed, and thrown off the roof to his death. Exactly what he deserved.
    Yeah this whole storyline was definitely interesting, didn't quite expect to encounter something like that. It's not outright said but it's all there. Really got a icky feeling when he was talking to Rapha on the rooftop. Blehhhhh the stuff he's saying, like, calling himself her 'father' and then goes on about the rest of that shit. What a fuck.
    Marach is a shameful twat too. I find it hard to hate someone who does seem to actually change for the better (as it seems like he's come to his senses at the end of this chapter), but seriously, he should've protected his sister and listened to her the whole time. Because she obviously loves him and she's his fucking sister. They're siblings, they lost their family, they should always look out for one another and be each other's best friend. The fact that he, for a time, took their 'adoptive father's' side over his own sister makes me angry. I mean if I was in his shoes and my younger sister is telling me that this 'father' that took them in raped her, I'm going to believe her. Even if I only saw this 'father' being good and kind and treating me well, if my sister said that, I would trust her over this man.
    Okay, rant over.
  • You've witnessed one of the darkest scenes in the whole game. Thoughts?
    Isn't this whole 'scene' dark? :monster: Not sure if you're pointing out one in particular. All the dead bodies is pretty ghastly, especially considering Folmarv (wondering which zodiac he is) literally ripped and smashed people apart by the sounds of it. Including what was once his son. So yeah now I do feel a bit bad for Isilud. Poor dude.
    There was a mild creepy atmosphere in the game during these scenes, which I love, but when it's all pixels, I'll admit it doesn't affect me much.
    The twin storyline was also pretty dark, as mentioned above.
  • Congratulations on passing the infamous Tactics road block! How did you fare?
    Well, you know how I fared with the first, second, and third battles :wacky:

    .........I beat the rooftop battle on my first try though. :awesome: Idfk how either, I didn't even pick my best people. Wow.
  • Still keeping up with Rumors and the plot at large? The parties at play and who belongs to which group? (The Riovanes rumor is particularly gnarly.)
    Yeah, the plot is really getting more interesting.
    One thing to mention, I really do see a definite change with Ramza now. He's always looking for the puppet master; it's pretty amazing how instead of being caught up in the regular war, he's running behind the scenes, chasing and even catching some of them. He's actually doing something. I like that your main character is the unknown, background hero. It's not something you see in stories very often.

    So in my head there's 4 large groups: Northern Sky and Southern Sky, at war. Church, trying to be controlling, and Church is being taken advantage of by Templars, which is controlled by Lucavi-possessed people.
    Erm oh, Orran and Orlandeu (?) seem to be good guys, I rather like them so far, so they're another group I guess. Then there's Delita and Ovelia, like... idk what's fully up with him yet. And of course Ramza's group.

    Okay so, I like this new twist with the Auracite. Like, it's not inherently evil then, by the sounds of it? I like how it keeps changing. First, legends and common thought is that they're 'good'. Next, you encounter them and think "omfg they're not good they're evil, they're demonic and shit'. Then again you encounter one that brings someone back to life.
    So they go from all good, to all bad, to "IDK maybe it depends on the wielder". Very interested to see what happens.

    And Alma's been kidnapped again, yikes. Glad she's not dead but what's up with Folmarv and mentioning Virgo. Is Virgo another lucavi? Is it Ultima? Is Alma going to turn into one or something? >__>

    HMMMM interesting :awesome: I wanna know more, more!

Oh yeah, and that rumor is pretty gnarly, too. Sucks to think that 500 people were just slaughtered by a few men, Lucavi-possessed or no, in what seems to be a fairly short time.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
heeheehee, glad you're enjoying it! :D You've also got a pretty good handle on the story, good work!

And congrats getting through Riovanes, it's a doozy. And yeah, because that rooftop fight is entirely luck-based, you either get repeatedly creamed or just win immediately and wonder what the heck everyone was on about. :monster: (What can happen is Rapha will just dash right into the center and Lettie or Celia will hit her with their 100% instant death attack, game over.)
 

Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
Chapter 8

Okay, I've finished the siudequest chapter. Still playing, yes, don't worry, even though I've got Andromeda staring at me. :awesome: I kinda went around the map a few times to try out more errands, but eh, tbh I don't really see much purpose in them except to just get some extra gil, which I don't really need. So, I probably won't really participate in any more. :monster:


  • How did you do on these optional fights? Lots of tricky terrain (and that all-chemist battle is annoying, imo).

  • I first thought that the Chemist battle would be trouble, but after a few rounds I had them all on the run, largely thanks to Beowulf disabling them as he went along. :D
    Second battle wasn't much trouble, I did spend more time in it though to try and tame the pig. :closedmonster: Eventually just killed him.
    Third battle, Reis ended up dying due to my team being stuck behind two petrified ahrimans thanks to the Break skill I taught Beowulf. Oops. :monster: Second try went better though, I defeated the beasties and saved the dragon.
    [*]Anything about these quests surprise you?
    Only that the dragon is actually nice AND JOINS YOUR TEAM :awesome:
    [*]What are your impressions of the new characters, do you think you'll use them?
    I really like Beowulf, he's quite strong and has lots of abilities to learn, so I've been using him since then. Haven't tried out the machine yet, I just got him. Reis is cool, I want to use her a lot because hello, dragon :wacky: But she's only got attack and breath abilities so... she might be more of a novel companion.

Onto the next chapter!

Oh btw. Last night I got into a battle WITH 11 MONKS LIKE JESUS WHAT THE FUCK. :wackymonster: Battle party was Ramza-Dragoon, Black Mage, Beowulf, Reis, and Luso. I was totally not prepared for that level of WTF-ness. :closedmonster: :closedmonster:
And yet somehow, impossibly, after some back and forth...I....I won the fight :wacky: How....?
 

Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
Chapter 9

Discussion:
  • Any new thoughts on Delita? Or do you still feel the same about him?
    I just ain't totally sure about him. I understand his desire to get rid of all the heads of the noble class and armies and shit, and he really really wants to protect Ovelia (trying to decide if he sees Teitra in her or what), but he can't deny that all he's doing will put all the power in the hands of the church. He doesn't seem happy about that either, but unless he plans to assassinate them all too, I dunno what he's going to do about it. :monster:
  • How did the battles go?
    Pretty decent actually, chocobo one took a bit of time, then the battle with IIsilud's sister did suck but somehow I got through it on my first try. Lost a lot of helms and armor though. :wacky:
  • And what's your team looking like these days? Using any of the story characters that have joined up? Changed up your job combinations?
    Actually yeah, I've found myself using Agrias and Beowulf a lot, and Luso pretty often too. Really like their skillsets. Agrias just matsered the Chemist job. :wacky: Luso is currently a Knight.
    Ramza is doing some Ninja stuff right now, I do love him being a Dragoon though. Otherwise, I swap between my other four dudes, who are currently a Black Mage, Archer, knight, and Mystic.

Got through this chapter pretty quickly, I'm hoping to get through the game within the next week or two. I'm worried that if I don't play it every day other stuff will distract me and then it'll be a chore to finish. Trying to avoid that! :lol:
 

Jason Tandro

Banned
AKA
Jason Tandro, Doc Brown, Santa Christ, FearAddict, Thibault Stormrunner, RN: Micah Rodney
^ Get Agrias through Ninja, then give her two Swords and make her a Holy Knight Again. Win the game. :monster:
 

Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
Chapter 10

Took me a bit longer with this one, what with Easter and a busy weekend. :D

Discussion:
  • Did any of these battles give you trouble?
    The first battle with the poison bomb start had a few 'uh oh...?' moments, but I managed to pull through and take out the dude.
    The fight with Construct 7 and such was also a 'Oh God' battle, but I luckily defeated the birds who kept casting stone fairly quickly. With a bit of luck. Got through the battle my first try again.
    Oh and the last fight with the monk and thieves and shit was annoying. They kept moving faster than my crew. :wacky:
  • Things in the story mostly went down as Delita outlined, what do you think about the ways it deviated?
    Seeing Dycedarg kill the duke...count... ah shit I forgot what title he has :closedmonster: (I actually did this part before the weekend so I forget his name already!) Anyways, I didn't expect that. But not too surprised because Dycedarg is quite a power-hungry asswipe.
    Zalbaag on the other hand is... clueless it seems. Actually, wow, he's like Ramza was in the beginning. Just he never figured out the truth and real machinations. He just has no clue, it seems? Pretty religious too. Who knows, maybe there's a chance he won't have to die/be killed, but eh...... I doubt it.
    Pretty sure Dycedarg just passed out from the poison. The guy who sent it into the air said it wasn't lethal, so, guess he's still alive. Wonder who's gonna kill him, because I just know he won't last.
  • Were you surprised by the conclusion of the Beowulf quest? Does this change your mind about who you might use?
    Mildly surprised; kinda sad to lose the dragon form but cool to see a comrade with dragon abilities. :awesome: I've used her in a couple random battles and she seems pretty good.
  • Thoughts about that last quest and/or the way it was done? Did you already know about this, or was it a surprise? Do you think you'll bother to use the new character?
    I knew Cloud was in this game, heard about it years ago somehow. But I didn't know 'Aerith' was as well, nor anything else.
    I honestly don't think I'll bother to use him tbh. I didn't get that sword either on the volcano, because I'm not planning on using him, so... :monster:
 

Jason Tandro

Banned
AKA
Jason Tandro, Doc Brown, Santa Christ, FearAddict, Thibault Stormrunner, RN: Micah Rodney
RE: The "secret" character.

I had plans to use him but he starts at level 1 and by this time grinding up his levels seemed like such a massive chore. Apparently he can be powerful but by now you have much better troops.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
In my original playthrough I did level him up. I used him on a second final battle that I did just to prove to myself that I could do it without Orlandeau :P

Climhazzard is quite good, but yeah, you have to want to use him to make it worth it.
 

Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
Chapter 11

Phew, getting closer to the end... I will prevail, I'm gonna make it :wacky: (not a hard thing really, as I'm enjoying the story and game itself, it's just, life!)

Discussion:
  • What did you think of the plot developments in this chapter? Several characters motives become more plain, and basic revelations about others.

  • Dycedarg was given a stoooone OOOOOOH HE'S GONNA TRANSFORM because he's a bastard and if he doesn't give in, I'm going to le gasp like never before. No surprise that he killed his dad. Zalbaag listening in from the doorway though, hmmm, again I think Zalbaag is a mix between Ramza and Dycedarg. Nowhere near as good as Ramza but not a complete loss like Dycedarg. I think he's going to turn on Dyce before the end, but he'll still die, either from Dyce, Delita, or something else.

    Wondering if the Lucavi are referring to Ultima when they mentioned some err... High Spirit, or something (I forgot). Is Alma supposed to be her host after all? Yikes.
    Side note, I saw mention of Hashmal, he's one of my favorite zodiac summon designs. I'm guessing that's who Folmarv has dwelling inside.
    Also I've been thinking, the hosts seem to merge with the Lucavi soul. Was wondering if the Lucavi completely take over the person's body and soul, or if the person just took on the Lucavi's memories/powers, etc... but now I think instead that the two must actually merge together. Memories of both lives inside, both souls successfully merged, though more Lucavi obviously than human.

    Oh, nice to see Meliadoul come around and join the party. Allies, yay! <3
    [*]How did the battles go? If you are playing War of the Lions, how did you like the bonus battle at the Inner Court?
    I had to re-do the first battle at Limberry once, and even then it was pure luck that I won by killing one of the demon women...whatever they are. :closedmonster: First battle started well for... two turns before it went to shit. :wacky: Second attempt, started going bad but I used Orlandeu this time and took out one of the chicks, which ends the battle. Thank god. :wacky:
    Second battle also was difficult but again, miraculously won on my second try. Got lucky too, I think. Equipped some KO and Stone immunity items but they kept hitting the characters with what they didn't protect against still. Killed one of the ladies my first try, then she turned in a fully-healed demon thingie, so wtf.
    :kermit:
    Second try, I managed to destroy Elmdore with Orlandeu's attacks and Ramza managed to land a Jump with 30% chance of success, that was a miracle.

    After that the battles went a lot better.
    Yeah I was surprised to see Argath again--Like seriously? What's the turdface want now :awesome: Y'know, GoT reference incoming, but, he reminds me a bit of... Joffrey maybe, just a Joffrey in a middle-class/whatever position. The way he calls out for his mother when you kill him, it's aaaaaalmost pitiable, but no, can't quite feel sorry for him. For his circumstances, maybe, but not himself. He's a scumbag and that's all on himself, but the class he was born into wasn't, and neither was him being brought back to life. Wonder how they did that anyhow...
    [*]The last of the story characters has joined (one more optional remains), but your roster is pretty stacked now, does this affect your plans for your main party?
    If I need a boost in a fight, Orlandeu is automatically there :awesome: Otherwise, it's Ramza, Beowulf, Agrias, my Chemist-turned-Archer-currently, and then I swap between my Monk/Mystic girl, Monk/Knight dude, and Black Mage/Summoner dude. Oh and sometimes Reis or Construct 8 in random battles.
 

Jason Tandro

Banned
AKA
Jason Tandro, Doc Brown, Santa Christ, FearAddict, Thibault Stormrunner, RN: Micah Rodney
Mel strongarmed her way into my endgame team. Imagine all the practical usefulness of Knight abilities with the awesome damage of Agrias. Of course she is less useful on monsters and Lucavi but teach her Item and make her a backup healer too and she won't let you down.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
^War of the Lions makes her a little extra useful as her skills still work on monsters.

Glad you're still enjoying Flare, and you have good instincts :monster: I expect the last optional character is going to give you yet another decision to make about your team :P
 

Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
I should have ended the last chapter at the cutscene after you try to leave Limberry, but your chapter will technically start there if you didn't move in the interim. Otherwise you'll make for Eagrose/Igrose all the way across the map. In Dorter there will be a (technically optional) battle with another Templar.
Now, if you're playing War of the Lions, quickly detour up to Goland and read the Rumor "Rash of Thefts." Then return to Dorter and read "A Call For Guards." When you try to leave you will get a pretty badass prerendered scene and there will be a straightforward fight with your final new character.

I've started chapter 12, and wanted to write some stuff about this bit above before I forget over the weekend or something. :monster:

First, story scene. I saw an injured Orran and was like NOOO DON'T DIE MAN because I quite like him. Thankfully he's still alive. ;-; I do hope he makes it. Orlandeu will probably die though. Idk, just kinda seems like he might. We'll see. :monster:

Delita just murdered that woman with his bare hands? Wtf man. I feel sorry for her tbh, she clearly was very hesitant and couldn't kill him in the end. She didn't seem like a bad person. I feel like she would've rather left Delita and the church instead of killing one or the other.
Ovelia obviously is struggling to trust Delita, despite his words and devotion. Curious to see where they both end up, and their relationship (I don't meant that romantically). If she's going to trust him in the end or no.

Also, Zalbaag seems to know the truth about Dycedarg now, and what a scumbag he is. That's good, it's nice to see one of the older brother's turn out okay in the end. I still don't see him lasting, but it feels good to see him change. I hope him and Ramza (and perhaps Alma too) get some more dialogue together before the end. >.>


Anyhow, is that battle 'technically optional' because you don't HAVE to go through Dorter, I think, to reach Eagrosse? Or another reason?
Fight was pretty creamed too, btw. :monster: In my favor. No Orlandeu was used. :wacky: Meli took out 3 of them herself...


Okay last bit, first I'm going to preface it by saying, I'm not sure how many more sidequests I'll do, I'll likely just head straight for the endgame now to ensure I finish it, otherwise I risk losing interest if life gets in the way for a while.
Anyhow

OH MY GAWD IT'S BALTHIER AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS IN THIS GAME WHAAAAAAAAAT

I'M JUST SO EXCITED :awesome: Yeah I'm way more excited about Balthier than Cloud. Idk if this means I like Balthier more, or because he was a total surprise to me, or because IT'S BALTHIER LIKE COME ON. :awesome:
But yeah, I'm really giddy to see him in my party, and holy shit he does some decent damage so, I totally have to use him now. :monster:

Anyhow, I'll write more when I finish the chapter. :awesome:


Edit: Mmkay I've finished the chapter today, so here's the rest of my thoughts.

Discussion:
  • What do you think of the story progression in this chapter? Things coming to a head now.
    Delita's final power play, Dycedarg exposed, the Templarate makes its move on the church, final thoughts on Zalbaag :'(
    Thought's on Delita's scene is up there; still not sure what his final results will be.
    Yay Dycedarg was exposed :awesome: I was happy that Zalbaag finally jumped up and made that move, ending up as a good guy after all. I loved coming in and being able to fight alongside him against Dycedarg. It felt good that Ramza got to reconnect with Zalbaag and that their relationship ended on a good note. Of course I was right about him dying. But, good to see that out of all the siblings, only one was a true bastard. :monster:

    Speaking of, wasn't expecting Zalbaag to just get zapped into oblivion... neither was I expecting him to be 'brought back' as some zombie with no control over what he's doing. So that was really sad. :sadpanda:
    Y'know, out of all the siblings, I think Zalbaag was the most innocent. He didn't recognize the true goings-on until very late in the 'power plays'. Ramza was innocent as well (not knowing the machinations) at the start of the game, but because of the events with Delita and Teitra he saw enough to know something wasn't right, and strove to learn more. Zalbaag was truly in the dark; stubborn too, but it's a wonder how Dycedarg did everything without Zalbaag ever knowing. I dunno, it's just, I think Zalbaag would've done similar things as Ramza, were he in Ramza's shoes.

    Anyhow, I liked that Zalbaag got more dialogue at the end, even though he was in such pain. It was nice to hear how much he really cares for Ramza and Alma.

    Oh, the Templarate leaving the High Confessor alive like that was pretty fucking shitty. Could've stabbing him in the skull before leaving, not the back, which leaves him to slowly die in horrendous pain. I mean, good for Ramza, I guess, because now he knows Orbonne is the next place to go thanks to High Confessor being alive in time to spill it out, but still.

    Looking forward to what the end of the game brings with it.
  • Are you using Orlandeau/Orlandu? If not, did you struggle in any of the fights? haha
    I actually did not use him in any of the fights this chapter. And I didn't struggle at all. :monster: I've been using Balthier, holy shit does he have the highest speed in my entire party :lol: And as your suggestion, I used Meli during the second fight (and third one too just because). Her abilities are pretty sweet.
    Side note, the second fight in Mullonde... I attacked one of the guys twice and the fight was over. :closedmonster:
  • Do you have any plans for before the final battles? WotL sidequests? Deep Dungeon/Midlight's Deep? Other Errands? Job Mastering?

    Honestly, I don't. I plan on heading straight to Orbonne and seeing the final pages of the story. If I want to play more after that I will, but I'm wanting to finish the game as soon as possible.
    If I do anything else, it'd be the two side story-ish arcs you mentioned. Not too big on the Errands and I don't need to Master any jobs really, though I have for a few people already. :D

    (I've been playing Andromeda too and now I've got new internet so FFXIV might be happening really soon as well.... really need to finish Tactics now, haha XD)
 
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Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
I've gotten to the battle with uh, Barich (?) and am having massive trouble all the sudden. Simply because of those damn 3-headed dragons who get close enough to cast their tri-spells and basically kill a character each time. :closedmonster: And then of course the two gunmen whom I can't get close enough to destroy their weapons without having said character die.

Any advice? I've tried it about 4 times now and am taking a break :lol:
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Anyhow

OH MY GAWD IT'S BALTHIER AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS IN THIS GAME WHAAAAAAAAAT

I'M JUST SO EXCITED :awesome:

lol, glad someone got surprised :P

Yeah I'm way more excited about Balthier than Cloud.

Well let's not be too hasty now :monster:
But in fairness he is better than Cloud in this game. He's basically a souped-up Mustadio with Thief skills.

Flare said:
Anyhow, is that battle 'technically optional' because you don't HAVE to go through Dorter, I think, to reach Eagrosse? Or another reason?

Nope, that's the reason. You'd really have to go out of your way to avoid a really easy fight, but it is nonetheless optional, haha.

[Chapter 12 discussion thoughts]

I'm enjoying hearing your experiences and thoughts with the storyline. I agree, I'm really glad that, despite how dark the game is, Ramza isn't completely without friends, and that Zalbaag isn't just as bad as he seemed earlier on.
And yeah, the scene where Zalbaag is confronting Dycedarg and Ramza charges into help while Battle on the Bridge is playing? So awesome. And turbo sad what happens to Zalbaag (and Ramza)...I had forgotten just how much that little part was. I came away hating Folmarv just a little more than I remembered.

I've gotten to the battle with uh, Barich (?) and am having massive trouble all the sudden. Simply because of those damn 3-headed dragons who get close enough to cast their tri-spells and basically kill a character each time. :closedmonster: And then of course the two gunmen whom I can't get close enough to destroy their weapons without having said character die.

Any advice? I've tried it about 4 times now and am taking a break :lol:

Well Thief Caps will prevent Immobilize and Disable from Barich. Putting your Sword Tech-users in the first party will likely allow you to hit him without having to cross the chasm. And the second party can be your ranged guys. (Construct 8 is a great one just since its range with Dispose is so huge.)

As for the Tiamats, well Rubber Boots will protect you from Tri-Thunder, but i don't remember what other elements they use. If you used Reis at all, she has an ability called Dragon's Charm that will turn them to your side. It can be a little tough keeping her alive long enough to do it (changing her to a class that can equip Rubber Boots helps), but it's pretty satisfying, haha. Also you can have a Tiamat on your team.

Otherwise I guess just try and flee to the other side once they fly over and try to burn Barich before things get too hairy.

Hope any of that's useful!
 

Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
Chapter 13: But I do know this: The true hero of this tale was the man forgotten.

And, I have finished the game, at last! :reptar: I decided to go for it again this morning and attempt that battle once more. And, I actually succeeded on my first try with it today, shortly before you posted in this thread about it, Force. :lol: Thanks for the advice though, I keep forgetting to check what boosts/immunities other equipment gives you, besides accessories themselves.

Right, on to the discussion!

Discussion:
  • How did the final battles go? What was your final team?
    I got through every final battle on my first try EXCEPT for that blasted wyvern battle. :lol:

    At the end, here's who I used and what their jobs were:
    Ramza's final level was 53; Dragoon.
    Cain, my original starting Chemist, ended the game as a Chemist as well (wielding a gun, though he was an Archer til the Wyvern battle).
    Agrias; Holy Knight with secondary mastered Chemist abilities. She had Throw Item equipped and helped in a pinch.
    Beowulf, I used him in half the ending battles; mastered Templar.
    Orlandeu; Divine Knight or whatever he starts as, he really did help. :monster:
    Baltheir; I used him in the first few final battles, never changed his class.
    Meliadoul; Divine Knight(?), was a backup to Orlandeu and such.

    The rest of my party fell to the wayside more. Initially I used my starting group for the first half of the game, at least. Then they slowly started swapping out with story characters until only one remained in the end. I almost feel kinda bad. :sadpanda:
  • When all is said and done, do you have a favorite job class? Favorite character?

    I really enjoyed the Monk, Dragoon, Knight, Holy Knight/Divine Knight (Orlandeu's mix was awesome), Templar, Chemist, and Black Mage was fun too. I like the concept of Geomancer but it didn't seem very powerful in the long run. Ninja was cool too.
    So, I'd say the Monk/Dragoon/Divine Knight classes are my favorite. If I play the game again I think I'll make Ramza a Monk. :awesome:

    As for favorite character, I really like Ramza. He's an interesting protagonist, but definitely fits the bill. Agrias is cool, though she definitely 'drops' from the story, unfortunately. I love having her in my party though. I also liked Orran, and now being aware of his full character, Zalbaag as well. Beowulf too, though more for his skills. Delita and Ovelia and Alma I have a liking for, but for various different reasons. Delita for what he brings to the story, Ovelia for a similar reason but also her character, and Alma because she's sweet. :monster: And a brother trying to save his sister in the end is lovely
  • I think this is the best implementation of the Final Fantasy job system, beating out FFX-2 and FFV. What do you think? Likes/dislikes?

    I honestly forget much of X-2, but I did play most of V last year. I really enjoyed V's job system but yeah, I think this one wins out. I know for a fact I never unlocked all the jobs here either.
    I remember enjoying Tactics Advance's job system too, but admittedly that's partly because of the different races you get in the game, and how some have race-specific jobs.

    There's a lot to like about Tactic's Job System, and I think little to dislike. My complaints are pretty minor; I think having to learn a whole frickin' job just to know how to use items is a bit much. :wacky: I like the Chemist job only because it's goddamn useful and you wouldn't be able to survive very well without it. But seriously, pls, don't make this a job ever again, SE. :monster:
  • What do you make of the plot events of this chapter and overall?
    Are you confused about anything? What do you believe became of Ramza, Alma, and/or the others? Final thoughts on Delita, the Church, and other players?

    Overall, Tactics is indeed a mature and darker story, which I happen to like. It really don't give you many places to smile at though. :( I enjoyed the game and the plot quite a lot, I feel like there's 'mysteries' and little bits of info that you can also find reason to connect with XII's timeline (one being Mustadio's last name, Bunansa, the same as Balthier's, so they could be descendants?) More on this topic below.

    Firstly: What the fuck was that scene before 'The End' popped up. Did Ovelia and Delita really just kill each other? :closedmonster: I'm still shocked about that. Didn't expect her to just turn and stab him and proclaim that he was going to use her like he used the others, or something. And of course he stabs her back. So blah, not sure how much I like that. Also wondering at what time it happened, because obviously they married and he was king now (woo fancy title), so like, did they have kids together or anything? Did this happen shortly after their marriage? Idk.
    Obviously Ovelia never fully trusted him then; I feel sad for her because she must've been fairly miserable. She wanted to trust him, as evident in her initial glomp hug she gave him after he expressed his desire to see her safe and Ivalice on a better path. But in the end, obviously he'd done too much for her to actually do it. Which is a shame. I don't agree with much of Delita's methods but Ivalice seemed better off, and I do think he would've done a decent job at 'fixing' things, for a while.
    Blargh, anyhow, it's really tragic, and I don't like iiiiiiiit. Poor Ovelia.

    As for the Church, wtf, Delita let them burn Orran at the stake? Wow Delita, sounds like the church is still totally in power, burning Orran because he was going to release an honest written account of Ramza's life and deeds. Not sure if this happened while Delita still lived; I mean I assume so but who knows? But I really disliked reading that too because I obviously like Orran and it's like, Delita never truly accomplished his goal then, because the church still was a dick and executed someone for writing the truth and HE DID NOTHING. Sure, someone found it ages later, but WTF Delita.
    Side note, I was happy to see Orran alive at the graveyard with that other woman whom Delita obviously did not actually murder. ;-; And everything was sounding great until hey, Orran gets burned at the stake. Wow.

    As for Ramza and Alma, I like thinking of them 'disappearing' and living life elsewhere, where people don't recognize them or know their names, etc. I want to think they both found someone and continued the family line in secret with children :wacky: But I could easily see them just living their lives together as a family, and not having a spouse or children at all.

    As for the others, I assume they either went back to their homes (like Mustadio), disappeared (Orlandeu probably), or fights for justice (Agrias, Beowulf), etc.

    Anyhow, 'tis a tragic tale basically all around, even if some good is definitely accomplished (Lucavi defeated, a lot of the nobles and such taken out and seemingly brought down, hopefully doing away with much of the royalty vs. common citizen division, etc).
    Speaking of Lucavi, I do wonder how closely tied they are to the Espers in XII's Ivalice. Obviously they got the same names and similar appearances, but they are fairly different. They possess willing people in order to appear within the physical realm of Ivalice, they talk, etc. The Espers in XII already do exist within Ivalice, they do not talk, and their lore instead is about how they plotted against the gods iirc and were cast out of heaven or some such. Though they do get turned into stones when defeated :monster: So idk how to really connect them.

    After beating Tactics I do feel that there's more connections between this game and XII than I initially thought, for sure. But still, the vast difference in time periods throws me off.
  • If you have played other games in the Ivalice Alliance, what do you think of the original relative to those games? Any thoughts as to their relationship?

    I want to make mention of a few little world things I noticed recently.
    First up is, of course, airship graveyard where you do the final battle; I like that underneath Orbonne is an aaaaancient city with obviously a lot of airships. Seeing as XII's Ivalice was (iirc) the Golden Age of Ivalice and had an abundance of airships, I can only assume that these airships must've been underneath Orbonne for over a thousand years. I wonder if any hearken back to that distant magical Ivalice of XII, or if that's way too far back in time?
    (I love stuff like this, where the game talks of an ancient civilization/golden age which was way more advanced than present day)
    Secondly, when hitting 'Select' over world map locations, a few places stood out. Siedge Wield, for supposedly being home to an extinct race of moogles, and Beddha Sandwaste, as it states 'The tombs of ancient emperors are buried in the sand', and that makes me think of King Raithwall and the Sandsea.

    Okay while writing this I browsed the wiki, and realized that the portal in Orbonne led to Mullonde's Necrohol, and wasn't still underneath Orbonne. :monster: And the airship graveyard could just be the last airships from Ajora's timeline too. But hey, I can speculate!

    I'll be spending hours reading the wiki tonight too, er, I mean continuing to read it. Because. :awesome:

    Anyhow, back to the actual question; I covered it a bit on the previous question, but as for my thoughts on how it relates to the other games, well... Basically XII is the best era of Ivalice so far :wacky:
    Tactics really does show that, while there's still a civilization and humans aren't going extinct, it's also declined a lot from XII. Technology, airships, a lot of magic, the other races are long since gone (totally extinct, moved elsewhere, or in hiding, who knows?), the land itself has changed, and there's a vast difference in power structure. In XII's era, there were of course kings and kingdoms and rulers, yet the average/common citizen had a lot more freedom in basically all the kingdoms. There was a greater variety. In Tactics, it really is simply 'the royalty/church vs. the lowborn'. There is hardly any grey area in that sense; sure, a few lowborns do get chances to rise, but there's forever that distinction based on one's blood.
    Tactic's Ivalice feels more like a... cold prison somehow. Depressing, kind of black and white in several ways. XII's Ivalice? Colorful, vibrant, mysterious, magical, there's a freedom in it, and variety. It's ALIVE. Tactic's Ivalice feels... not quite dead, but, quiet and in a coma or something. Compared to Ivalice's blazing sun, it's a cold moon.

    As for Tactics Advance, now up til recently I was always under the impression that, 1) the world Marche and the rest originate from is in fact our world (because they read a book about 'Final Fantasy'), and 2) the Ivalice they are teleported to is an alternate reality Ivalice, or rather a fictional Ivalice. But after talking to Ryu, apparently both the world they originate from and the one they transport to are XII and Tactic's Ivalice?
    If so, then I believe I'm correct in saying that Marche's world is far in the future from Tactics, and they obviously go back in time thousands of years.
    Which if their world really is the future of Ivalice, then that's kinda okay, because it's very similar to out world and much more alive again compared to Tactics. As Ryu put it, the magic is still there, just hidden. Which is evident by them finding a magical book. :awesome:
    So that's my meandering thoughts right now, I've been working on this post for a while now so I'm just gonna stop it here for now and continue chatting later about this topic. :D
  • And of course anything else you want to say, I'm eager for any opportunity to gush about this game, so discuss away :monster:

    I've already made this an epic blabbing word wall so I should probably stop here for now :monster:

Force said:
I've had a lot of fun running this, so thanks for the chance. People who fell by the wayside, if you every pick it back up please post here while you do so! There are many of you I'd love to hear thoughts from!

As an ending, glad you had fun doing this, I know I started quite late but I also managed to go all the way through and finish it, which I'm really happy about. :D Thank you for running this, I can honestly say I wouldn't have played Tactics at all if not for this event (at least not for a long while still, I suspect).
Now I'd like to pick up Tactics A2 eventually, especially knowing it has the other races featured in it once more. :joy:
 

Jason Tandro

Banned
AKA
Jason Tandro, Doc Brown, Santa Christ, FearAddict, Thibault Stormrunner, RN: Micah Rodney
Congratulations on finishing Flare! Just a few things:

1. Don't feel bad, my final party was Ramza, Orlandu, Meliadoul, Agrias and my custom Calculator Ninja Ilean. It's basically by design that your standard soldier units are training units to get you through the meat of the game and teach you what paths to take your superstars through.

2. The End scene... not quite. Delita was not planning on killing Ovelia. She stabbed him first and he was forced to turn his blade on her. His misery is based on realizing that because of all of his schemes for power he will be reviled just as he reviled the nobility and never again trustwd or be close to anybody. Meanwhile Ramza will have that joy but will be forced to spend the remainder of his days in exile. I think as a downer ending go its pretty miserable and shows why both of them are heroes but also why Ramza's path was the more noble- Delita's suffering was earned, Ramza's was not but that is the cruel turn of history.
 

Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
^
I know Delita hadn't planned on killing her, and I checked some YouTube videos of the scene again since then, just to be sure of the dialogue and such. Saw several people saying they Delita likely survived that stabbing? It's obviously not clarified for sure but they say it's because Delita is mentioned to have ruled for many years.
I'm guessing Ovelia stabbed him shortly after the ending events, then? I dunno, just seems like she's blaming him for Ramza and Agrias's (and the rest's) 'deaths'. I can't imagine her doing that years later, but I don't know. Would be interested in hearing everyone else's thoughts on this scene.

Anyhow, it's still really sad no matter what. Again, Ovelia clearly wanted to trust Delita, but found it impossible to do in the end. I don't think she should've stabbed him, rather she should've confronted him with words instead... but then again maybe she was afraid he'd talk her down, give his reasons for his actions, make her lose her will to carry out her plan. Maybe what she did was ensure he would kill her; she didn't know how else to be free? Im not sure. I guess she was either in such grief and fear from the events that she made that move, or that she literally just snapped. Whatever the case, I feel so sad for her.
Delita too, because as you said JT, he ends up the one miserable and reviled. It's interesting because he mostly accomplishes his goal, yet he ends up in misery; hailed as a hero by the masses but everyone close to him ended up abandoning him in one way or another, turning on him violently or dying or just leaving altogether. Whereas Ramza is feared by the masses, hated by the church, claimed to be a heretic and evil, yet has many who are/became close to him and love him, who know him for who he truly is. I think Ramza ended up happy, and Alma too.

It's just, Rama and Delita started off similar, but ended up in complete opposite positions and it was completely as a result of their own choices. Delita and Ramza both defied their blood and their birth, and completely flipped expectations for ones of their stature on its head. And certainly, major events happened and one could also say they had no choice in some areas, but I'd argue that Ramza and Delita both had perfect free will, they both made their decisions, and their end is a result of themselves and no one else. They broke free of the fate most people in their stature would've accepted/followed. And one ends up miserable, while the other ends up happy.

At least, that's my current pondering on it.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
^
All of which is part of the true strength of Tactics story, and why it's one of the best FF has told, even if it is tragic.

Also interesting, if you head to Zeltennia before Orbonne (I posted the video in my response to JT's final discussion post here), Agrias actually gives Ovelia that dagger, and Delita thinks it's a good idea. And yes, I always gathered that that was relatively soon after the events of the game, and that Delita survived that stab wound. It certainly seems like Ovelia does not, but she could survive without changing the overall message or invalidating Delita's musing about whether Ramza achieved the world he wanted.

Speaking of Lucavi, I do wonder how closely tied they are to the Espers in XII's Ivalice. Obviously they got the same names and similar appearances, but they are fairly different. They possess willing people in order to appear within the physical realm of Ivalice, they talk, etc. The Espers in XII already do exist within Ivalice, they do not talk, and their lore instead is about how they plotted against the gods iirc and were cast out of heaven or some such. Though they do get turned into stones when defeated :monster: So idk how to really connect them.

I don't know, and this is something that I really wanted XII to give me. I understand that the plot doesn't need to be (and may well shouldn't be) directly connected. But I would have loved SOME hint as to what the deal was. Did the Lucavi wind up possessing the Espers and using their forms in Ajora's time? Or were these the Lucavi all along and were simply aligned with the what the the XII cast were trying to do (I happen to like this explanation)? The fact that each character can only equip a single Esper does kind of line up with the Lucavi, though they aren't possessed of course. It would have been cool to get a hint that they had a scheme in mind, or maybe even showing more of a connection between those Zodiac Stones and the ones that were so important in Ramza's time.

After beating Tactics I do feel that there's more connections between this game and XII than I initially thought, for sure. But still, the vast difference in time periods throws me off.

Indeed, and I believe XII has some reference to Ajora buried deep somewhere? Or maybe it's just the Cache of Glabados that Balthier is after (the Church being the Church of Glabados), but again, a bit more of a taste would have gone a long way to enticing me into that world. Even a mention of a person named Ajora causing a small uprising somewhere? Or even hints as to what might be leading to the Calamity. Or a myth of Zodiac Braves?

When I first heard that FFXII would be taking place in Ivalice, I actually thought the main cast would be who became known as the Zodiac Braves. But again, I'm fine without DIRECT connection, it makes the world feel bigger. But the super-tenuous ties just make it feel like a different world with some homages. Obviously Matsuno didn't have XII in mind when he made Tactics, so he could have gone anywhere with it, really.

I want to make mention of a few little world things I noticed recently.
First up is, of course, airship graveyard where you do the final battle; I like that underneath Orbonne is an aaaaancient city with obviously a lot of airships. Seeing as XII's Ivalice was (iirc) the Golden Age of Ivalice and had an abundance of airships, I can only assume that these airships must've been underneath Orbonne for over a thousand years. I wonder if any hearken back to that distant magical Ivalice of XII, or if that's way too far back in time?

Since XII has existed, I have always assumed they were airships from that time period. Though the final arena does more resemble an airship from the early FFs than those of XII.

Secondly, when hitting 'Select' over world map locations, a few places stood out. Siedge Wield, for supposedly being home to an extinct race of moogles, and Beddha Sandwaste, as it states 'The tombs of ancient emperors are buried in the sand', and that makes me think of King Raithwall and the Sandsea.

I knew about the moogle line, but that's a cool thought on the Beddha Sandwaste as well. :)

Anyhow, back to the actual question; I covered it a bit on the previous question, but as for my thoughts on how it relates to the other games, well... Basically XII is the best era of Ivalice so far :wacky:
Tactics really does show that, while there's still a civilization and humans aren't going extinct, it's also declined a lot from XII. Technology, airships, a lot of magic, the other races are long since gone (totally extinct, moved elsewhere, or in hiding, who knows?), the land itself has changed, and there's a vast difference in power structure. In XII's era, there were of course kings and kingdoms and rulers, yet the average/common citizen had a lot more freedom in basically all the kingdoms. There was a greater variety. In Tactics, it really is simply 'the royalty/church vs. the lowborn'. There is hardly any grey area in that sense; sure, a few lowborns do get chances to rise, but there's forever that distinction based on one's blood.
Tactic's Ivalice feels more like a... cold prison somehow. Depressing, kind of black and white in several ways. XII's Ivalice? Colorful, vibrant, mysterious, magical, there's a freedom in it, and variety. It's ALIVE. Tactic's Ivalice feels... not quite dead, but, quiet and in a coma or something. Compared to Ivalice's blazing sun, it's a cold moon.

Well, yes, if you had to live in Ivalice, XII's would definitely be the time period you would want. In Tactics it is of course much more akin to the Middle Ages, and considerably bleaker. But that did allow Tactics to tell a better story, imo :monster:

I can see the appeal of the "ancient advanced civilization," especially when you have a game that shows what it was like, and games like FFX make good use of it too. But it is a little too prevalent in fantasy for my tastes. Especially when it cropped up in Dirge of Cerberus. (I don't mind it here, of course, just speaking in general.)

As for Tactics Advance, now up til recently I was always under the impression that, 1) the world Marche and the rest originate from is in fact our world (because they read a book about 'Final Fantasy'), and 2) the Ivalice they are teleported to is an alternate reality Ivalice, or rather a fictional Ivalice. But after talking to Ryu, apparently both the world they originate from and the one they transport to are XII and Tactic's Ivalice?
If so, then I believe I'm correct in saying that Marche's world is far in the future from Tactics, and they obviously go back in time thousands of years.
Which if their world really is the future of Ivalice, then that's kinda okay, because it's very similar to out world and much more alive again compared to Tactics. As Ryu put it, the magic is still there, just hidden. Which is evident by them finding a magical book. :awesome:

Yup, "St. Ivalice" is just a town hundreds of years after Tactics. I wonder if it's contemporary with Arazlam Durai, or if Ramza's story was discovered before or after Advanced's "present day." If it is after the release of the Durai Papers, it would be interesting if Luso knew of Ramza, or at least if that information is available in his time.
And then of course there is also Vagrant Story, which also takes place after Tactics but much closer in time period. The links between games are also tenuous, but there are hints to Agrias and Orlandeau - and that the latter is revered with relics like those of the saints in the Christian church.

I hope to keep making progress in A2, the gameplay is of course familiar, but it has been difficult to remain focused as there is so little story to speak of. It's just doing missions. At least so far. I also have Vagrant Story on PS3 that I should get through. If I could get through both before Zodiac Age and just have a Year of Ivalice, that would be sweet.
 
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