"Final Fantasy VII Lateral Biography: TURKS - The Kids Are Alright"

I think it's Rufus she invited, and Rufus who's saying he doesn't envy Evan. At first glance it's an odd thing to say, since Rufus is the acknowledged son and heir and the one with all the money. Evan, however, has freedom and doesn't carry the burden of the Shinra legacy. Evan also had a mother around who loved him dearly; he grew up in the certainty that he was loved. Rufus denying envy of Evan implies that in many ways it would be better to be Evan than to be Rufus.
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
I agree with you - Kadaj is more terrifying, and the Turks are more frightening, in this story than in AC. I wonder if that's because written fiction can do something video can't so easily do: take us inside a character's head.
I wonder if he can get away with more in novels becuse they aren't aimed at such a wide market. AC is the weakest part of it's own little trifecta of OTWTAS, TKAA, and itself because it feels much more obligated to fulfill a checklist of criteria.
 

Rydeen

In-KWEH-dible
I think it's Rufus she invited, and Rufus who's saying he doesn't envy Evan. At first glance it's an odd thing to say, since Rufus is the acknowledged son and heir and the one with all the money. Evan, however, has freedom and doesn't carry the burden of the Shinra legacy. Evan also had a mother around who loved him dearly; he grew up in the certainty that he was loved. Rufus denying envy of Evan implies that in many ways it would be better to be Evan than to be Rufus.
Seems like he’s also being snarky since he knows Evan is tremendously jealous of him.
 

Kyo Cobran

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Jim Kyo
I think it's Rufus she invited, and Rufus who's saying he doesn't envy Evan. At first glance it's an odd thing to say, since Rufus is the acknowledged son and heir and the one with all the money. Evan, however, has freedom and doesn't carry the burden of the Shinra legacy. Evan also had a mother around who loved him dearly; he grew up in the certainty that he was loved. Rufus denying envy of Evan implies that in many ways it would be better to be Evan than to be Rufus.

So, I have the novel with me and it is explicitly referring to Reno, not Rufus, just to clarify.
 

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Kyo Cobran

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Jim Kyo
I wonder if he can get away with more in novels becuse they aren't aimed at such a wide market. AC is the weakest part of it's own little trifecta of OTWTAS, TKAA, and itself because it feels much more obligated to fulfill a checklist of criteria.

I sure hope so. I really REALLY enjoyed the novels. I couldn't put it TKAA down once I started reading it. The only problem I see with more novels is it may be financially difficult for Nojima to publish them. For the amount of effort it takes to write a novel, I can't imagine Square gets much of a return for the very same reasons that the novels are great - because it doesn't feel obligated to fulfill a checklist of criteria. In other words, the novels aren't probably a huge money maker for Square so they probably won't invest too much time in them. I sure hope I'm wrong though.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
It's Rufus saying he's not jealous.
"Reno said it was a great idea. And then he actually called me. Your brother I mean." He/brother meaning Rufus. Everything "he" says after that is from Rufus.
Correct. Also, Rufus is quoting Evan himself back at Evan there, as Evan previously told Rufus that he doesn't envy him at all (while it was obvious to both of them that he did).

So Rufus is acknowledging -- with an inside joke -- that they actually envy one another.
 

Kyo Cobran

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Jim Kyo
Correct. Also, Rufus is quoting Evan himself back at Evan there, as Evan previously told Rufus that he doesn't envy him at all (while it was obvious to both of them that he did).

So Rufus is acknowledging -- with an inside joke -- that they actually envy one another.

It's Rufus saying he's not jealous.
"Reno said it was a great idea. And then he actually called me. Your brother I mean." He/brother meaning Rufus. Everything "he" says after that is from Rufus. From there I have to agree with Lic's analysis on the meaning behind the envy.

Ohh!!!! Thanks that makes a whole lot of sense now!
 

Kyo Cobran

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Jim Kyo
I think it's Rufus she invited, and Rufus who's saying he doesn't envy Evan. At first glance it's an odd thing to say, since Rufus is the acknowledged son and heir and the one with all the money. Evan, however, has freedom and doesn't carry the burden of the Shinra legacy. Evan also had a mother around who loved him dearly; he grew up in the certainty that he was loved. Rufus denying envy of Evan implies that in many ways it would be better to be Evan than to be Rufus.

Now that I realize that "brother" was referring to Rufus, what you said makes total sense. Thank you!
 

Chocobo Eater

Pro Adventurer
I wonder what Rufus really thinks of Evan. I mean... it's sort of implied that he envies him in the end, and he seems to care about him more than the Turks do, excluding Reno. But on the other hand, he's perfectly okay risking Evan's life to get what he wants (Jenova).
 

Rydeen

In-KWEH-dible
I wonder if Evan reminds him of a younger self.

I wonder what Rufus really thinks of Evan. I mean... it's sort of implied that he envies him in the end, and he seems to care about him more than the Turks do, excluding Reno. But on the other hand, he's perfectly okay risking Evan's life to get what he wants (Jenova).
I think that’s because he’s a true risk/benefit kinda guy. Evan will die anyway if that head gets into the wrong hands.
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
I bought the English edition of this three years ago and only just now got around to reading it whoops :monster:

This was a pretty decent read tbh. I know Kyrie and Leslie originated here but the Remake was kind of my first proper exposure to them, it's interesting how different they are in this. Kyrie is such a brat in Remake, good to see she cleans up her act and becomes likeable :P

Kadaj was actually kind of scary in this. Well, until Kyrie and Evan "killed" him by playing "Go fetch!" lmao
I'm convinced if you yelled "Look behind you, it's Mother!" at Kadaj, it would work as a distraction every single time. Use Mother against Kadaj. It's super effective.

RIP Fabio and Keough. Such a weird anticlimactic way to go out. Rude shoulda taken that dynamite stick to the face. Surprising that they don't get dynamite thrown at them every day considering what they did in the service of Shinra. All Shinra Are Bastards, I'll never not be convinced otherwise. :monster:

The Red XIII cameo felt super random and kind of unnecessary.
 

Elkazor

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Cinder Wing
So I've read the two Compilation novels now, and I have more to say on TKAA than OTWTAS - other than OTWTAS to me is now my new favorite Compilation title, lol, and my fav chapter from that is Case of Nanaki. As Ody said above, he needs everything he can get lol. It was great to have his character expanded and I loved them leaning more into his animal side and making his struggle a balance of his animal side and his intellect.

As for TKAA - there were various elements that were interesting, some that I enjoyed a lot, but some that I had some issues with.

I really enjoyed this take on Kadaj, and I wish it was the version we got in the movie. It also made it a lot clearer what Jenova's powers actually were. Kadaj manipulating people's memories and being described as this unusual person who speaks through people's misperceptions and mysteries really elevated the character to new heights.

However, the parts that I took issue with in this story and with a lot of the Compilation as well is how the Shinra is handled. Some really enjoyed these parts, but I didn't.

The Shinra in the OG were very clearly meant to be parallels to the corruption of runaway corporatism, Rufus was clearly the spoiled rich opportunistic son that inherited the family corporation, and the Turks were obvious representations of Police brutality and corrupt cops. There were some expansions to this idea in the Comp that were interesting, but my main gripes start as soon as this is angled as a "redeeming" of Rufus and the Turks. I'm not saying that can't work, but I don't think it works the way it's written.

Aside from the obvious point of Rufus being heavily implied to be dead at the end of OG, the way he and the Turks go about justifying their continued existence doesn't align well with the way the rest of society has moved on. At the end of Case of Shinra in OTWTAS, it's even stated that the Turks were allowed to continue dealing with protesters "the Turks way" - as in, using force and violence to suppress them. The thing is, after everything the people of Midgar and now Edge went through in the OG, they have every right to protest the Shinra's continued existence, and in TKAA, they especially have the right to protest a monument built and dedicated to the Shinra. Yet Rufus and the Turks resolve this by again, using brute force on the protesters and then forcing them into a labour contract to help Shinra build the monument. Without Rufus or the Turks having any reflection on the morals of this method and barely having any comeuppance given to them about how these tactics are corrupt. The only comeuppance comes at the end when Tseng starts whaling on the lying Doctor and Evan begs him to stop.

The only steps they take toward redemption is seeking and distributing a cure for the Geostigma, but again, that's not enough when you're still using the same corrupt tactics you were always using. If you want to angle this as a sort of "what would happen if the Shinra still operated after Meteorfall", that's one thing, but you can't have it be read as a redemption when there's little reflection on them still using violent and oppressive tactics to achieve their means.

After the ending of OTWTAS I was actually glad that TKAA started with a group of anti-Shinra youth, as I felt this could be a great setup to the conflict of the Shinra's continued existence and actually show steps toward a stronger redemption for them. But I was left disappointed in the end when Evan just ends up completely changing his mind on the Turks willy-nilly just because they helped him out of a few tight spots. Hell, one of his best friends is killed by Rude and left behind a now heartbroken little brother who hates the Shinra. These stories do few favors for the Shinra's "redemption", as they don't do nearly enough reflecting on their actions that they need to in order for a proper redemption to occur.

Maybe the point wasn't that they were "redeemed", but the way some people talk about it gives me that impression, and I disagree.

I still think Rufus' arc in the OG is more satisfying and cohesive than his development in the Comp.
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
I don't think the point of Rufus and the Turks post-Meteorfall is meant to be trying to sincerely redeem them. Like the presentation of Rufus in AC is not something that screams a bad guy trying to seek atonement (like Rufus is definitely still plotting and scheming, and evidently takes satisfaction in playing Kadaj), but rather exploring how would bad/amoral people would ostensibly work and contribute towards the "greater good" and fight against other bad guy threats.

It reminds me of the character David Xanatos from Greg Weisman's Gargoyles, who is basically the primary antagonist (though out of self-interest than persona vendetta, one of his iconic lines is even "revenge is a sucker's game) of the titular protagonist gargoyles but by the end of the canonical TV series (there are canonical comic continuations written by Weisman) Xanatos ends up becoming the protagonist gargoyles' ally again, though he also certainly didn't become a "good guy" either.
 
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