"Final Fantasy VII Lateral Biography: TURKS - The Kids Are Alright"

[ForceStealer]

HITOOOOOOOOOO

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Your work is more awesome than ever, hito. I love you, man. You make this look so easy. I've skimmed the whole book on my own, but I know I've missed a lot that your translations will (and have already) illuminate.

I also have to say that Nojima has done a lot better with writing this book than he did with the On the Way to a Smile stories. It still requires knowledge of Edge's layout that someone new to the Compilation wouldn't have, but it's not written for newcomers anyway.

 

[Pixel]

You still have to be psychic to decipher who is saying what at times.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

That's true. Something he (Nojima, not you, hito) still needs to work on, for sure.

 

[Pixel]

The FFXIII ones had the same problem, so it's not just Nojima. I understand why they do it. Its kinda annoying writing "said Kyrie" etc all the time, especially writing from a character's perspective. He gets around it usually, but its just hard to read if you have to stop and put the puzzle together.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Oh, I understand why it happens too, but there are ways around the "said Kyrie" mechanic that clue the reader in to who is speaking next, such as describing what the character is doing before quoting them (e.g. "Lesley shuffled his feet a bit. 'I'm going to go buy some fruit'").

 

[Pixel]

Trying to figure out who was saying what between biggs, wedge and jessie in maiden was such a pain. I just gave the lines to all 3 actors and just tried to figure it out when mixing.

 

[Strangelove]

Nojima has gotten a lot better at prose since OTWTAS. This one feels more lively, IMO.

But dialogue is sometimes an issue. I remember in OTWTAS there were times when it had two separate lines next to each other but that seemed to be from the same speaker. Sometimes in Japanese you can get away with not labelling who is talking because how they speak can get that information across. Sometimes that can be worked into the English, but sometimes you have smaller differences that don't cross over so well. Little things that tell you 'oh it's a woman speaking' but that don't translate into English (use of certain words/speaking styles or gender-specific pronouns). TKAA does better in that he does indicate who is speaking in other ways that 'said so-and-so', like describing a character's actions.

 

[Pixel]

Trying to figure out who's saying what here

“If he keeps that up, no amount of money is going to be enough.”

“Yeah, maybe we oughta find more work.”

We stood side by side, watching our friend bartering with the old woman. It was a sight to see Lesley gesturing to get across the situation with his pregnant lover. They seemed to reach an agreement at last. He received two red fruits and paid his money, and started to leave. Just then the woman called him back, and handed Lesley three small yellow fruits.

“I wonder if he'll still stick with us in the future.”

“We'll deal with that when the time comes. I'll work twice as hard as I do now.”

Kyrie didn't answer me, and started walking. With a feeling of discomfort I followed her.

Also, im guessing this

I was revealed when I saw Lesley nod.

is supposed to be relieved?

 

[Strangelove]

That's a part where the Japanese is clearer (Evan > Kyrie > Kyrie > Evan, though you get a little hint for the last one with 'Kyrie didn't answer me' (I think 'respond' might be better looking at it now).

 

[Fangu]

Sometimes in Japanese you can get away with not labelling who is talking because how they speak can get that information across. Sometimes that can be worked into the English, but sometimes you have smaller differences that don't cross over so well. Little things that tell you 'oh it's a woman speaking' but that don't translate into English (use of certain words/speaking styles or gender-specific pronouns). TKAA does better in that he does indicate who is speaking in other ways that 'said so-and-so', like describing a character's actions.

I guess this is one of those things where you take your liberty to putting in what is necessary? Like, even if "she said" isn't literally there, it's not a crime to put it in to make the text make more sense, IMO. I remember re: translations talk in a post earlier, you said you think a good translation isn't just word for word and objective, but requires some subjective input from the translator, which I totally agree with. I think it's what makes a good translation, when the translator understands the material enough to make the necessary and subtle changes to put the point across. You need to make choices all the way anyway when translating, because languages are different in both structure and in the cultural sense. I remember nodding all the way through what you wrote. (I think it was in the *shudder* LTD thread when discussing all the people who doesn't know more than 1 language and will never understand that a literal translation of say sentence 1, 2 and 3 might give a false impression of what the text is saying. You need to take all 3 into account, because it's the story you're trying to tell that's important, and not literally translating the meaning.)

/language nerd

Anyway, again, thank you so much for this. You are truly truly awesome.

 

[Strangelove]

I was planning on added some extra clarifications ("said ~" and such). Sometimes being 'too close' gets in the way. I think you can run into problems like this when writing something original. You might write something that is confusing to the reader, but don't realise that because you're the only one privy to all the thoughts you had that you might now have written down. You know what the character's motive is for saying and doing something, but you forgot to convey that to the reader because it seems obvious to you. You just never wrote those thoughts down for others to see.

In the case of translations, being familiar with the original text fills in gaps that might exist in the translation, but because you've been spending all this time looking at both you might not notice what's lacking in one. With this extract, things like speech patterns and word choices and pronouns made it clear who was talking, but without giving characters ridiculously exaggerated dialects or something those things don't cross over to English as easily. You could have five characters say something simple like 'I'll go' and you could tell them apart easily thanks to the wealth of Japanese pronoun choices (俺が行く、あたしが行く、ワシが行く、吾輩が行く、モモちゃんが行く、拙者が行く、僕が行く、私が行く、おいらが行く、わたくしが行く, just to throw out examples off the top if my head). In English, those are all basically just 'I'. (Japanese pronouns function more like actual nouns that like English pronouns, but that is going off on a tangent now.)

With the Maiden example, Biggs had a little verbal tick that would identify him as the speaker, and Jessie uses feminine language, which would have probably helped Japanese readers pick up on who was speaking.

I wanted to post things here first because I think feedback like this help back the end result better.

Also since I didn't do notes for this chapter and there is stuff worth mentioning:

Spoiler: chapter 4 notes

Lesley has a line in the translation about how Shinra would 'let a chocobo guard their greens'. In Japanese this was originally:

「ザ・人手不足」 (za hitode fusoku, The Manpower Shortage)

In Japanese adding ザ・ (za/The) is an easy way to make something sound jokey and comical. Originally I just put something plain like 'they're desperate for help' but it seemed a shame to lose any colour this line had. That's when I remembered the thread here about possible idioms or sayings for FF worlds and a Japanese phrase 'to accept help from a cat' (meaning you will take any help you can get regardless of how useful it will be). While it doesn't have the exact flavour of the original text, I thought it added something to a line that would have been rather dry otherwise. (My original idea was along the lines of 'put a moogle in charge of one's kupo nuts' but I went with chocobo in the end because moogles seem more like a fantasy creature in FFVII's setting compared with chocobos who are common and present.)

 

[Ivette]

Hito, I´m going to make you a monument. Tell me size, and where do you want it.
Hahaha.

Thank you, really!

 

[Fangu]

Spoiler: chapter 4 notes

Lesley has a line in the translation about how Shinra would 'let a chocobo guard their greens'. In Japanese this was originally:

「ザ・人手不足」 (za hitode fusoku, The Manpower Shortage)

In Japanese adding ザ・ (za/The) is an easy way to make something sound jokey and comical. Originally I just put something plain like 'they're desperate for help' but it seemed a shame to lose any colour this line had. That's when I remembered the thread here about possible idioms or sayings for FF worlds and a Japanese phrase 'to accept help from a cat' (meaning you will take any help you can get regardless of how useful it will be). While it doesn't have the exact flavour of the original text, I thought it added something to a line that would have been rather dry otherwise. (My original idea was along the lines of 'put a moogle in charge of one's kupo nuts' but I went with chocobo in the end because moogles seem more like a fantasy creature in FFVII's setting compared with chocobos who are common and present.)

I really enjoyed reading your post, especially this part, and especially your thoughts process of how you ended up making the choices you did. I think the chocobo thing you ended up with is a great example of knowing the material and taking liberties (in a good way) to put a point across.

I haven't done as much translating, but I did translate the first episodes of a Norwegian TV series from Norwegian to English (subtitles). What struck me was how many choices I had to make, and how much creativity I had to put into it. I received a comment from someone on YouTube:

Thanks for taking the time to translate the first episode of Dag. It is a good translation too. I noticed e.g. that, in the restaurant scene, Dag actually referred to the book "The Christmas Oratorio" and not to his writer Göran Tunström, as you did. But it was a clever choice on your behalf, since most non-Norwegians would think that Dag was referring to "The Christmas Oratorio" by Bach.

It's little things like this, where I had to keep the English viewers in mind. Will they understand the context, or should I specify it? And with subtitles, you've got limited space as well. Another example is when the main character Dag tells his best friend he can sleep in his hallway (Dag is a very private person and doesn't let anyone into his apartment.) The literal translation is 'the pillow and blanket is (still) in the hallway', and even if it puts the point across, it's not quite the same. I ended up using 'the hallway is free to your disposal' or something, which isn't really the best option IMO (a better version might have been 'you can sleep in the hallway (for one more night)') but it's better than the literal translation.

Overall I have learned to appreciate my/ the Scandinavian languages more after doing those translations. I still love English for its great vocabulary and I always will, it's just that I always thought of my language as blunt, poorly contented and too straight to the point. But I see now that this doesn't necessarily make the language poor, it just means you can 'say more with less', and it also fits the picture of the reserved, honest (straight to the point) Scandinavian. Culture and language are closely related, and knowing other languages helps you see and understand your own.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I love this thread as much for the discussions about language and writing as I do for the story.

Incidentally I like the characterisations, especially Evan (kind of a pessimist, kind of a look-at-me guy) and Kyrie. I also like the way Nojima worked the infodump into their dialogue. It felt natural.

Great work as always, Hito.

 

[Pixel]

I figured I'd post this here if anyone wants to try out

http://voiceactingalliance.com/board/showthread.php?86435-FINAL-FANTASY-7-Audiobook-Chapter-1-5

 

[Danseru-kun]

^

I'll try to send voice samples tomorrow, just to try...

 

[Strangelove]

I really enjoyed reading your post, especially this part, and especially your thoughts process of how you ended up making the choices you did. I think the chocobo thing you ended up with is a great example of knowing the material and taking liberties (in a good way) to put a point across.

I haven't done as much translating, but I did translate the first episodes of a Norwegian TV series from Norwegian to English (subtitles). What struck me was how many choices I had to make, and how much creativity I had to put into it.

I think that is something people who haven't experienced translating might not realise, at least when dealing with creative works. Over the course of this project I will make hundreds of little choices that will probably not even be noticeable to people reading it. I make notes of anything that feels like a big change or highlights something particular to translating and localising things. But to list everything, especially with a project like this where I have tried not to rigidly stick to the original syntax or structures all the time, I would probably spend as much time writing notes as translating.

There is definitely more skills you need to translate than simply knowing both languages involved. At times you need to be a writer to pull something off well.

 

[ForceStealer]

If only a certain other person understood this the way you do...

Would you do this for a job, hito? Because you totally could.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I figured I'd post this here if anyone wants to try out

http://voiceactingalliance.com/board/showthread.php?86435-FINAL-FANTASY-7-Audiobook-Chapter-1-5

Hmm, you already have Evan picked out, don't you?

 

[Pixel]

When I was doing the German retranslations of the last 2 OTWTAS novellas there were alot of different sources to draw from, the japanese translations by you guys, german translation with help from Tets, xcomps fan translation. It all formed a clear picture of an accurate localisation. I cant imagine how tough it is doing it from 1 source on your own. :/

Hmm, you already have Evan picked out, don't you?

Think I'll have to do that myself... or try. Its just too much to ask someone else to do, and have control over sound quality, etc.

 

[Strangelove]

I would call the Japanese version the definite version, for obvious reasons. I think it is the ideal option to work from if you can, but I understand that it isn't always possible.

I certainly wouldn't consider mine to be definite or anything. Just because I did it one way doesn't mean there aren't a dozen other valid ways to do it. It's just the choices I made at the time, which might not be what I would do if it were a couple of months later.

wait what am i talking about now

If only a certain other person understood this the way you do...

I know. Jesus, Tres, get your act together.

I suppose I would enjoy it as a job, because I enjoy it as a hobby, but the trouble(s) is(/are):
- I don't have any formal qualifications to get a job
- most translation work involves specialist knowledge I don't have (such as law or science)
- fiction translation is apparently a hard field to get into and to do as a full time job?
- you're probably not likely to get to pick and choose your jobs and you might end up working on an entire series of "Magic Squirrel Action Cutie Team" or something you hate

 

[ForceStealer]

most translation work involves specialist knowledge I don't have (such as law or science)
- fiction translation is apparently a hard field to get into and to do as a full time job?
- you're probably not likely to get to pick and choose your jobs and you might end up working on an entire series of "Magic Squirrel Action Cutie Team" or something you hate

Well what about game localization?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I've heard that's difficult to get into as well. Would probably also carry the same issues of not having much pick in what projects you work on.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well, naturally on the picking-your-projects thing. But it is surprised that its hard to get into, how many people could be that good at translating?