FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH ANNOUNCED
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Sephiroth Crescent
Way Ahead of the Plot
@jeangl123
I'm always fearing that's going to happen now.
I'm always fearing that's going to happen now.
Roundhouse
Pro Adventurer
More proof of Zack's importance and central role in the remake!
Grandmaster Kirbs
Lv. 1 Adventurer
- AKA
- Kirbs
Hey there! I don't post on here... I think... ever... but I'm a big fan of this community and come here to soak up all your lovely discussion. I've been reading a lot of these posts the last few days and wanted to post a few of my Ideas for Rebirth and Beyond.
Rebirth
One of the big questions about Rebirth is the overworld. I think we're going to get a "hub and spoke" style system for this game similar to most modern action RPGs. What I mean by this is that cities and towns will act as a "hub" and the areas between them will be large open wilderness areas with a ton of side stuff to do like monster hunting, side quests, and worldbuilding.
What does this look like in Rebirth?
I'm going to use the Midgar continent as an example. For the first portion of the game we'll have two hubs with three spokes. The hubs will be: Kalm and the Chocobo Ranch (Which I can see being expanded significantly, I bet that Chocobo dance scene for the summon materia will be a mini-game, haha).
This gives us three spokes: the trip between Kalm and the Chocobo Ranch, the trip between Kalm and the Mithril Mines, and the trip between the Chocobo Ranch and the Mithril Mines. The reason I say there's a path between Kalm and the Mythril Mines is that in the original you could freely try to go there and fight the Midgar Zolom and learn, very harshly, that it's a LOT stronger than the party.
These areas will be big, probably not as big as FF15, but bigger than FF12. You can try to head to the swamp, but quickly find you cannot because there's an optional boss fight. I fill like having the Zolom fightable early on would be great for a challenge boss (Beat the zolom before getting coming back later, or before getting a chocobo)
So seeing the swamp area is way too high level the player is forced to head towards the Chocobo Ranch. I think they could easily sneak Yuffie's events from the first game into this area, but they could also save her for after the Mithril Mines just like the original.
You do your thing at the chocobo ranch, learn how to catch chocobos, and blam-o, you have your first 'vehicle' of this game. From here you can finally traverse the swamps and make it to the Mythril Mine.
This formula can easily be used for the rest of the world. Once through the Mythril Mine you have: Path to Fort Condor, Path to Junon. Big open areas that flesh out the areas and make them all have unique biomes specific to their lore.
Speaking of which... let's talk about Fort Condor.
I think Fort Condor's role is going to change drastically in Remake. We've already had it associated with the greater AVALANCHE organization via the minigame in intermission. My theory here is that Fort Condor becomes one of the forward bases for AVALANCHE with Cosmo Canyon being their main headquarters. This pulls them into the story and gives the fort a reason to be resisting ShinRa attacks. We'll meet some of the extended characters here and get a chapter similar to going topside with Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge. My personal hope is that we'll meet Elfe here and explore Barret's relationship with their organization. I don't think protecting the condor and the Pheonix subplot will happen until the third game with the Huge Materia Hunt.
I'm with others here that this game will go all the way through to handing Sephiroth the Black Materia. I also am not sold on alternate timelines, and think what we've seen of Zack so far is lifestream trickery. I haven't read the books, but I believe one of them talks about people entering a sort of purgatory state where they cannot assimilate. I have a feeling the singularity knocked Zack into this state. He HAS to have a bigger role in remake. Most people playing know who is is and frankly are probably expecting more than a few late-game cutscenes. I think they're purposely misleading us on this front.
What's left for game 3?
Game 3 is the Hunt for the Huge Materia, expanding on their lore and the summons. Exploring some of the tales of the Cetra. The conflict between Wutai, ShinRa, and AVALANCHE and them finally coming together to fight Sephiroth. Bust most importantly, we will be fighting WEAPON. I can see a kingsglave style raid on Midgar with Diamond Weapon where AVALANCHE and ShinRa are fighting this crazy giant organic mecha with their armies to punch a hole for the party to get in and go toe-to-toe with it to buy Rufus enough time to charge the Sister Ray.
Chasing Ultima in the highwind to stop it's rampage. Ruby and Emerald also getting similar treatment and likely not being optional. (I think they could toss Jade Weapon in as a hidden boss, would be a nice hat tip to Before Crisis.)
What about all this hubub with Zack?
I think Zack will play a similar role in this story that he did in Advent Children. He'll be helping from the beyond as a warrior of the life stream. But right now he's lost. He can even show up and exert his existence to help Tifa piece together the truth in game 3.
In the original we clearly meet his parents in Gongaga, but nothing really comes of it. It's a few text boxes and that's it. This time they can really expand on that. The developers also said they want to include some locations from the compilation so seeing Banora or Modemheim aren't out of the question. The real question is where and when?
One other last thing (Because otherwise I'll write 16 pages of fan theory) I think one device I've seen used to explain a lot of the deeper lore of Remake was the simulator scene in the ShinRa Building as a source of truth. But I think what we see in that viewing before Sephiroth hijacks it is unreliable because it's likely a whitewashed version of History being presented by ShinRa who have a vested interest in revision the tale of events. I think Bugenhagen will show us the "true" version of this in his simulator. In fact, I think it's likely that he's the inventor of this Technology in this retelling of the story.
The singularity's whole goal was to sever Zack and Cloud's bond. We see in compilation material that "force ghosts" have quite a bit of power to influence the living. Aerith, Zack, Angael, and even Sephiroth all exert this ability. Sephiroth, having an understanding of this uses the Arbiter's defeat to break something that severs this tie leaving Cloud alone and vulnerable for Sephiroth to slowly corrupt him over the course of Rebirth until he finally snaps and hands over the Black Materia.
Anyway, I digress, this is getting a little long winded. I just wanted to share some of the ideas going around in my noggin! Thanks for reading.
Rebirth
One of the big questions about Rebirth is the overworld. I think we're going to get a "hub and spoke" style system for this game similar to most modern action RPGs. What I mean by this is that cities and towns will act as a "hub" and the areas between them will be large open wilderness areas with a ton of side stuff to do like monster hunting, side quests, and worldbuilding.
What does this look like in Rebirth?
I'm going to use the Midgar continent as an example. For the first portion of the game we'll have two hubs with three spokes. The hubs will be: Kalm and the Chocobo Ranch (Which I can see being expanded significantly, I bet that Chocobo dance scene for the summon materia will be a mini-game, haha).
This gives us three spokes: the trip between Kalm and the Chocobo Ranch, the trip between Kalm and the Mithril Mines, and the trip between the Chocobo Ranch and the Mithril Mines. The reason I say there's a path between Kalm and the Mythril Mines is that in the original you could freely try to go there and fight the Midgar Zolom and learn, very harshly, that it's a LOT stronger than the party.
These areas will be big, probably not as big as FF15, but bigger than FF12. You can try to head to the swamp, but quickly find you cannot because there's an optional boss fight. I fill like having the Zolom fightable early on would be great for a challenge boss (Beat the zolom before getting coming back later, or before getting a chocobo)
So seeing the swamp area is way too high level the player is forced to head towards the Chocobo Ranch. I think they could easily sneak Yuffie's events from the first game into this area, but they could also save her for after the Mithril Mines just like the original.
You do your thing at the chocobo ranch, learn how to catch chocobos, and blam-o, you have your first 'vehicle' of this game. From here you can finally traverse the swamps and make it to the Mythril Mine.
This formula can easily be used for the rest of the world. Once through the Mythril Mine you have: Path to Fort Condor, Path to Junon. Big open areas that flesh out the areas and make them all have unique biomes specific to their lore.
Speaking of which... let's talk about Fort Condor.
I think Fort Condor's role is going to change drastically in Remake. We've already had it associated with the greater AVALANCHE organization via the minigame in intermission. My theory here is that Fort Condor becomes one of the forward bases for AVALANCHE with Cosmo Canyon being their main headquarters. This pulls them into the story and gives the fort a reason to be resisting ShinRa attacks. We'll meet some of the extended characters here and get a chapter similar to going topside with Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge. My personal hope is that we'll meet Elfe here and explore Barret's relationship with their organization. I don't think protecting the condor and the Pheonix subplot will happen until the third game with the Huge Materia Hunt.
I'm with others here that this game will go all the way through to handing Sephiroth the Black Materia. I also am not sold on alternate timelines, and think what we've seen of Zack so far is lifestream trickery. I haven't read the books, but I believe one of them talks about people entering a sort of purgatory state where they cannot assimilate. I have a feeling the singularity knocked Zack into this state. He HAS to have a bigger role in remake. Most people playing know who is is and frankly are probably expecting more than a few late-game cutscenes. I think they're purposely misleading us on this front.
What's left for game 3?
Game 3 is the Hunt for the Huge Materia, expanding on their lore and the summons. Exploring some of the tales of the Cetra. The conflict between Wutai, ShinRa, and AVALANCHE and them finally coming together to fight Sephiroth. Bust most importantly, we will be fighting WEAPON. I can see a kingsglave style raid on Midgar with Diamond Weapon where AVALANCHE and ShinRa are fighting this crazy giant organic mecha with their armies to punch a hole for the party to get in and go toe-to-toe with it to buy Rufus enough time to charge the Sister Ray.
Chasing Ultima in the highwind to stop it's rampage. Ruby and Emerald also getting similar treatment and likely not being optional. (I think they could toss Jade Weapon in as a hidden boss, would be a nice hat tip to Before Crisis.)
What about all this hubub with Zack?
I think Zack will play a similar role in this story that he did in Advent Children. He'll be helping from the beyond as a warrior of the life stream. But right now he's lost. He can even show up and exert his existence to help Tifa piece together the truth in game 3.
In the original we clearly meet his parents in Gongaga, but nothing really comes of it. It's a few text boxes and that's it. This time they can really expand on that. The developers also said they want to include some locations from the compilation so seeing Banora or Modemheim aren't out of the question. The real question is where and when?
One other last thing (Because otherwise I'll write 16 pages of fan theory) I think one device I've seen used to explain a lot of the deeper lore of Remake was the simulator scene in the ShinRa Building as a source of truth. But I think what we see in that viewing before Sephiroth hijacks it is unreliable because it's likely a whitewashed version of History being presented by ShinRa who have a vested interest in revision the tale of events. I think Bugenhagen will show us the "true" version of this in his simulator. In fact, I think it's likely that he's the inventor of this Technology in this retelling of the story.
The singularity's whole goal was to sever Zack and Cloud's bond. We see in compilation material that "force ghosts" have quite a bit of power to influence the living. Aerith, Zack, Angael, and even Sephiroth all exert this ability. Sephiroth, having an understanding of this uses the Arbiter's defeat to break something that severs this tie leaving Cloud alone and vulnerable for Sephiroth to slowly corrupt him over the course of Rebirth until he finally snaps and hands over the Black Materia.
Anyway, I digress, this is getting a little long winded. I just wanted to share some of the ideas going around in my noggin! Thanks for reading.
Ryeleigh
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Rye
Yeah there's a lot people found. @panjyu_game5 found some of these
View attachment 12677
You even have CC rebirth adding more because Zack now has the same lunge and running animation in battle.
If these are all intentional then it pretty much tells how close Zack and Cloud were. Because you don't pick up someone's mannerism without being close to them. Well, unless you spend some serious amount of time observing them from afar or something. Or it's just the Jenova mimicry.
But I like the first explanation more. XD
Kain424
Old Man in the Room
I like this. Major Final Fantasy IV vibes.
Golden Ear
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- M. Prod
Sephiroth does not want to "End" or have Cloud "End" in the "Universe of Death" or "Dying Universe" in which he "bears the burden of". (multicoloured Nebula)
He says "Our world will be become a part of it on day".
Cloud "bears the burden of the Universe of Creation" or "Universe that will be Born". (Red Nebula)
Implications are that Rebirth, while most likely having multiple meanings, has the red shading which could correspond to the "Universe that will be born" (Red Nebula)
I've seen quite of bit of theories on this since this stuff surfaced around last December or so. Most of theories that I've seen are people saying that the "Universe of Death" is the Lifestream or Cosmic Lifestream ect, people who die will be in this Universe of Death. The theory is what we see of Zack is currently in that Universe or Lifestream, the stamp bag is a memory distortion and the Cloud he is carrying is our Cloud but in an in between state (not clear on that last part). I'm not necessarily sold on all aspects of this theory but it's interesting.
Some big questions are:
1) Why does Sephiroth bear the burden of the Universe of Death (UOD)?
2) Why does Cloud bear the burden of the Universe of Creation(UOC)?
3) What "World" does Sephiroth want to then become apart of the UOD and why? We know "Our" world, but what is "Our" world? Is "Our" World the one which is in the UOC? Or is "Our" world separate from these two seemingly symbolically opposed universes/nebula?
4) Where and what exactly is the barren planet that is called the edge of creation?
5) In what way does Sephiroth not want himself and Cloud to "End" if their world is to become apart of the UOD?
6) If the UOD is a Dying Universe what use would Sephiroth have for it? How does the UOC tie into Sephiroths usage of the UOD?
7)Is what we see of Zack in one of these Universes?
8) Do these Universes tie into what we know of as the Beagle TL and Terrier TL?
9) How does the Lifestream tie into this? Is one of this Universes the Lifestream or Cosmic Lifestream? Does the Lifestream act as a glue in between these Universes? Does the Lifestream work intrinsically in the cycle of Death and Rebirth of these Universes? Has this cycle been going on for a while? Are we in some kind of time loop where events keep repeating in the birth and death of these Universes?
Drinking game every time I write Universes.
He says "Our world will be become a part of it on day".
Cloud "bears the burden of the Universe of Creation" or "Universe that will be Born". (Red Nebula)
Implications are that Rebirth, while most likely having multiple meanings, has the red shading which could correspond to the "Universe that will be born" (Red Nebula)
I've seen quite of bit of theories on this since this stuff surfaced around last December or so. Most of theories that I've seen are people saying that the "Universe of Death" is the Lifestream or Cosmic Lifestream ect, people who die will be in this Universe of Death. The theory is what we see of Zack is currently in that Universe or Lifestream, the stamp bag is a memory distortion and the Cloud he is carrying is our Cloud but in an in between state (not clear on that last part). I'm not necessarily sold on all aspects of this theory but it's interesting.
Some big questions are:
1) Why does Sephiroth bear the burden of the Universe of Death (UOD)?
2) Why does Cloud bear the burden of the Universe of Creation(UOC)?
3) What "World" does Sephiroth want to then become apart of the UOD and why? We know "Our" world, but what is "Our" world? Is "Our" World the one which is in the UOC? Or is "Our" world separate from these two seemingly symbolically opposed universes/nebula?
4) Where and what exactly is the barren planet that is called the edge of creation?
5) In what way does Sephiroth not want himself and Cloud to "End" if their world is to become apart of the UOD?
6) If the UOD is a Dying Universe what use would Sephiroth have for it? How does the UOC tie into Sephiroths usage of the UOD?
7)Is what we see of Zack in one of these Universes?
8) Do these Universes tie into what we know of as the Beagle TL and Terrier TL?
9) How does the Lifestream tie into this? Is one of this Universes the Lifestream or Cosmic Lifestream? Does the Lifestream act as a glue in between these Universes? Does the Lifestream work intrinsically in the cycle of Death and Rebirth of these Universes? Has this cycle been going on for a while? Are we in some kind of time loop where events keep repeating in the birth and death of these Universes?
Drinking game every time I write Universes.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
It's past midnight and mly thoughts are still processing this info, so forgive me for being a little incoherent. This is very interesting, and @Golden Ear I'm jumping on your post becvause it helps me think.
Does he bear that burden? I mean, is it said somewhere? I think there's a metaphore there with him being death versus Cloud who represents life, as he (Sephiroth) is dead, and Cloud is alive.
Actually, that is a very good question. If you think about it, on a meta level, Cloud & co did save the Planet in the OG. 500 years laters you can hear laughters in the woods; this is the good ending, the one we're bound to be back to. It is also the legacy that Cloud and the others leave behind them. They've saved the world, literally, they allowed it to be reborn while it was dying. This was the plot of the OG, it's still the plot in Remake; Cloud has to save the world to allow it to be reborn, like a Phoenix.
On a metaphorical level, I think we can link this. Now does this have a more practical result in Remake, like the creation of another, new world that would be the result of Cloud's wish? I think we'll have to wait on this one.
Sephiroth is saying that the Planet (=his and Cloud's world) is going to become one with the dying universe, which means it'll die and its last energy will join that galaxy, in the great cycle of life-style, as it's supposed to. Remember though that in the OG, the Planet was also very close from dying.
But Sephiroth does not want to become one with the dying universe. That's why he relies on Cloud to create a new universe, because he's unable to fight this fate he does not want. He knows his first plan he made failed (duh) so now he's trying something new maybe.
I think it's the Planet that is about to die. They're far away in the future. At least that's what's been theorised since the beginning here, and we kind of all agree on that.
Sephiroth does not want to die. He's stuck on the Planet, unable, like Jenova, to cross between worlds to eat their life. So he's stayed until the end, but he still doesn't want to die, so he's manipulating Cloud, trying to get something new to maybe win this time and get the possibility to cross between worlds and not be stuck anymore. Something like that, probably.
He doesn't have any usage of it, it symbolises his near death. He obviously doesn't want it.
Now that's THE question no one really knows about. There are lots of theories about Zack and for the moment, I wouldn't bet on any. I am very curious as to how they're going to handle him. All I know is that the OG enjoyed sending you in one (mis)direction only to catch you unguarded, so I think that's probably what's happening there too.
Well it's my personal theory that if there are multiple universes, then the Lifestream glue them together; they were indeed in the Lifestream before Sephiroth attacked them, and behind the Singularity the Whispers were duplicating the world. So I think there's something going on there that's most interesting but needs to be voiced by the devs for us to understand it.
I do think the idea behind the Cosmic Lifestream is not fanon? So bashically Planets become part of that Lifestream to be reborn at the end, just like life is reborn from the Planet's Lifestream, only on a cosmic level. But I'm not well versed in this, others will be able to clue you more about it.
We don't know if it's a time loop or not; nothing indicates the time loop. Yes there are visions of the future, easter eggs for fans, but if you think about it, there's not really any indication that this could be a time loop, especially since the Lifestream operates from the beginning to the end of the Planet, carrying the memories of the past, present and future. I do think that one of the possibilities is that dead!Aerith sent her younger self visions of the future in an attempt to prepare herself to fight Sephiroth.
Does he bear that burden? I mean, is it said somewhere? I think there's a metaphore there with him being death versus Cloud who represents life, as he (Sephiroth) is dead, and Cloud is alive.
Actually, that is a very good question. If you think about it, on a meta level, Cloud & co did save the Planet in the OG. 500 years laters you can hear laughters in the woods; this is the good ending, the one we're bound to be back to. It is also the legacy that Cloud and the others leave behind them. They've saved the world, literally, they allowed it to be reborn while it was dying. This was the plot of the OG, it's still the plot in Remake; Cloud has to save the world to allow it to be reborn, like a Phoenix.
On a metaphorical level, I think we can link this. Now does this have a more practical result in Remake, like the creation of another, new world that would be the result of Cloud's wish? I think we'll have to wait on this one.
Sephiroth is saying that the Planet (=his and Cloud's world) is going to become one with the dying universe, which means it'll die and its last energy will join that galaxy, in the great cycle of life-style, as it's supposed to. Remember though that in the OG, the Planet was also very close from dying.
But Sephiroth does not want to become one with the dying universe. That's why he relies on Cloud to create a new universe, because he's unable to fight this fate he does not want. He knows his first plan he made failed (duh) so now he's trying something new maybe.
I think it's the Planet that is about to die. They're far away in the future. At least that's what's been theorised since the beginning here, and we kind of all agree on that.
Sephiroth does not want to die. He's stuck on the Planet, unable, like Jenova, to cross between worlds to eat their life. So he's stayed until the end, but he still doesn't want to die, so he's manipulating Cloud, trying to get something new to maybe win this time and get the possibility to cross between worlds and not be stuck anymore. Something like that, probably.
He doesn't have any usage of it, it symbolises his near death. He obviously doesn't want it.
Now that's THE question no one really knows about. There are lots of theories about Zack and for the moment, I wouldn't bet on any. I am very curious as to how they're going to handle him. All I know is that the OG enjoyed sending you in one (mis)direction only to catch you unguarded, so I think that's probably what's happening there too.
Well it's my personal theory that if there are multiple universes, then the Lifestream glue them together; they were indeed in the Lifestream before Sephiroth attacked them, and behind the Singularity the Whispers were duplicating the world. So I think there's something going on there that's most interesting but needs to be voiced by the devs for us to understand it.
I do think the idea behind the Cosmic Lifestream is not fanon? So bashically Planets become part of that Lifestream to be reborn at the end, just like life is reborn from the Planet's Lifestream, only on a cosmic level. But I'm not well versed in this, others will be able to clue you more about it.
We don't know if it's a time loop or not; nothing indicates the time loop. Yes there are visions of the future, easter eggs for fans, but if you think about it, there's not really any indication that this could be a time loop, especially since the Lifestream operates from the beginning to the end of the Planet, carrying the memories of the past, present and future. I do think that one of the possibilities is that dead!Aerith sent her younger self visions of the future in an attempt to prepare herself to fight Sephiroth.
I've read other interviews and nomura has said things like that the remaster /remake of dirge of cerberus is not being considered until the new remake trilogy is finished because it would spoil the ending.
and that also crisis core reunion is not only the prequel to the original ff7 but also the remake.
and that also crisis core reunion is not only the prequel to the original ff7 but also the remake.
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cold_spirit
he/him
- AKA
- Alex T
The Famitsu interview has some interesting tidbits if you run it through Google Translate. When talking about Rebirth's reveal trailer, the interviewer asks about the compass at the top of the screen, noting the distance to the destination. Nomura then confirms that the field is "wide".
Also wild that they were debating between 2 or 3 parts. Here most of us thought it'd be a four parter. Goes to show you really can't predict anything with this series.
Also wild that they were debating between 2 or 3 parts. Here most of us thought it'd be a four parter. Goes to show you really can't predict anything with this series.
cold_spirit
he/him
- AKA
- Alex T
Here's the quote from the Gamespot interview for anyone interested.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/c...r-cloud-is-the-better-character/1100-6505171/
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Tetsujin
he/they
- AKA
- Tets
This strengthens my belief that they might save some locations for part 3. Good to hear them reconfirm that they don't wanna cut anything though.
cold_spirit
he/him
- AKA
- Alex T
Here's the Google Translate of the Dengeki article that I believe @xenosaga7 is referring to:
MelodicEnigma
Pro Adventurer
I do rather enjoy the things said in this interview:
ForceStealer
Double Growth
"It's the flashback, you nerds, stop reading into it." 
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
I'm confused, what did people think it was...?
It was obviously a flashback of Cloud and Sephiroth going to the Nibelheim Reactor. What else could it have been??
It was obviously a flashback of Cloud and Sephiroth going to the Nibelheim Reactor. What else could it have been??
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Yeah I never saw someone think that was something else. People mistook Tifa's voice for Aerith's, but the scene seemed pretty obvious.
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