Final Fantasy VIII

[Alessa Gillespie]

You guys are lucky Squall isn't as bad as Fei from Xenogears. Be grateful!

By the end of the game, Fei Fong Wong manages to pull of being both literally the most powerful main character in any JRPG ever, being pretty much omniscient (with an end game NPC hinting that the only reason why there are any battles anymore without Fei just poofing all of your enemies/bosses into nonexistence is for gameplay reasons), and the biggest complainer, worrier, and whiner in any JRPG ever as well.

I knew there was a reason I stopped playing Xenogears...

 

[Cat Rage Room]

It's a really good game! One of my favorites. I mean, the main character himself isn't even bad, it's just that complaining and worrying is one of his negative character traits; even the other characters call him out on it more than once throughout the game. He gets better, though!

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

It's a really good game! One of my favorites. I mean, the main character himself isn't even bad, it's just that complaining and worrying is one of his negative character traits; even the other characters call him out on it more than once throughout the game. He gets better, though!

I tried playing it back in 2005-2006, back when it was actually possible to rent a copy of the game and not pay $200 to play it, and I guess I just didn't play long enough to really get into the story, not to mention it is not exactly the sort of game you can get away with renting for three days only. Now buying a copy can get pretty expensive these days and it's pretty much the Earthbound of the PS1.

But anyways, back to FFVIII.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah, you're really not going to get everything XG has to offer renting it at 15-16 years old. It's pretty cheap nowadays, you should be able to order it online for about 20-30 bucks at the most.

 

[Max Payne]

Sounds like Celes just doesn't like Squall and doesn't want us to like him either so she's trying everything she can to prove he's terrible.

If all videogame characters were nicey nice I'd have to give up gaming entirely.

Also, Xenogears had a pretty awesome artstyle for it's day.

 

[Cthulhu]

It's an excellent game.

...when you're 15 / 16 and it's the first story-driven game with (at the time) photorealistic CG like ever. Kinda like Pokemanz when you first play it, only then better.

I'm sure I'll still enjoy it if / when I play it again, if ever, angsty teenagers aside.

 

[looneymoon]

I thought Xenogears was on the PSN? Or that may have been Suikoden. I dunno, I remember both could go up to $500 on Ebay a few years back. I have a copy I got fairly cheap but never got around to finishing it. I get distracted easy

I can't remember who said it, but about the point of FFXIII being cliche driven. imo FFVIII has the most cliche-driven cast of the series. It goes so far to substitute actual character development for cliches (for characters who aren't Squall or Rinoa).

 

[ForceStealer]

Selphie is the closest FF character Vanille in the (as spoony says) out-of-her-fucking-mind department.

 

[Celes Chere]

Assholes are some of my favorite characters. Spike Spiegel, Squall, etc.

But, I love Spike. O_o I don't think he's much like Squall at all, haha. Spike's character is just... all sorts of awesome. Squall's is like a flat line. ________

Seifer was cool? Ever? For even a second? Really?

Maybe I worded that wrong. xD I like Seifer and everything, but what I meant by 'cool' is... well, I don't really know how to explain it. Seifer's a douchebag, but he's a different type of doucebag in comparison to Squall. I don't really know how to explain it though so, fail on my part.

Because his balls finally dropped and she's the first chick he's ever been in love with.

Chick? *cough*shehasamanface*cough* I think Squall is secretly into Yaoi. cause she's flat chested too. Face it, Rinoa is practically a man.

I don't know. It felt like she was floating in between two guys. Like Seifer was the back up dude or something, lull.

I don't get how someone being a clingy annoying bitch attracts men, but okay... if that's what Squall likes.

I would like to have seen him apologize.

That alone would have made me at least respect him.

Sounds like Celes just doesn't like Squall and doesn't want us to like him either so she's trying everything she can to prove he's terrible.

I sure don't! I don't care if other people like him, but I have a right to pointless banter with other users just as much as the next person, so NYAAH. =P

I like Selphie. [Waits for: "that explains alot"]

 

[Joker]

We never got to know much of their fears, get to know their stories.

Seifer was a weird guy...his motivations for becoming Edeamecia's knight range from abandonment issues to Oedipal complex. And other than growing up with Squall and Co., being a dick, and hanging out with FujiRai, he didn't do much, anyway. He's so moody and misunderstood

Quistis was afraid of competing with Rinoa for Squall's affections. Which is why she gave up as soon as she arrived on the scene. Yeah, he may have told her to talk to a wall, but if you actually love someone, you don't give up that easily. =/ (she was apparently the hot teacher because groupies)

Selphie...okay, Selphie had no characterization, other than being about 40% of the way to Luna Lovegood. It's her own fault for going to a different school.

Irvine got plenty of characterization. You can tell he's a ladies' man, and that he's the type that steals other people's girlfriends. And you can tell he wins them over by being pretty, as well as that "I'm a loner/so misunderstood" angle he takes soon after meeting the gang. And I'd say he probably feels a little resentment, up until the GF thing is revealed, toward the gang for not remembering him.

Last but not least, Zell...he had a girl that he had a crush on that worked in the library, you got to meet his foster mother and she talked about what he was like as a kid, and he really hated Seifer. What more do you need to know about the guy? OWAIT, I forgot to mention how much he loves hot dogs

And poor Quistis never really even got a happy ending.

That's because she was Quistis - the one who gave up without actually trying to win Squall's heart. And it's not like Squall's the only guy in the world...Seifer's single, after all. =/

While in other games, we get to see all of the characters be where they're supposed to be, acheive what they wanted, etc.

Irvine and Selphie end up together.

Seifer and FujiRai reunite and hang out; Raijin is still a tard, and Fujin still speaks in angry monosyllable.

And Zell finally gets hot dogs.

PS: Squall did start falling in love with Rinoa before the coma, you know; his actions toward her in Deling are where it all begins.

 

[looneymoon]

Quistis admits she never really "loved" Squall. Yeah she stops competing when Rinoa hits the scene, but she also says in the Orphanage scene that her feelings were a manifestation of her desire to replace Ellone in Squall's life. She wanted to be his "big sis."

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

But, I love Spike. O_o I don't think he's much like Squall at all, haha. Spike's character is just... all sorts of awesome. Squall's is like a flat line. ________

Both are assholes.

I don't get how someone being a clingy annoying bitch attracts men, but okay... if that's what Squall likes.

It works more often than you'd think.

Quistis admits she never really "loved" Squall. Yeah she stops competing when Rinoa hits the scene, but she also says in the Orphanage scene that her feelings were a manifestation of her desire to replace Ellone in Squall's life. She wanted to be his "big sis."

Imagine if they had gotten together. Their roleplay sessions would have been to die for.

 

[ForceStealer]

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Um, Hi? *looks nervously at last post date*

I started playing FFVIII because the junction system looked interesting. Two disks in and I found that the story and characters grew on me, particularly the part of me that like theorizing and figuring out how people could have gotten from Point A to Point B. I also liked the whole craziness of Time Compression and the idea that Ultimacia's past is Squall and Co.'s future.

The Junctions system was interesting to work around and Triple Triad was actually fun to play. "Breaking" the system was fun even though I found myself with more magic then I knew what to do with.

It was a fun game to play and for once it was nice to just enjoy a game with no LTD raging through it.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Rinoa ruined everything about this game.

That's all I have to say.






PS: I love FFVIII.

 

[Kobato]

I kind of like FF 8, but I disagree with the above. I don't think Rinoa ruins it, I think that Squall ruins it.
Squall is the most selfish, self-centered arsehol ever to be written into the Final Fantasy series. Firstly he's a butthole to Quistis who was kind and supportive of him, and then he pushes away Zell who was nervous about the well-being of Balamb because of what he said in front of the Gabadain president. Squall is like " really, there's nothing I can do ". Rinoa comes in and mentions to Squall that he's being a cold jackass, and he's like "whatever " just, really ?! Zell is begging for some kind of leader support and Squall is like "derp, help own yourself ". Squall's shell breaks down, but he's really only nice to Rinoa because he feels guilty and sorry that she was in coma, and he does everything for her, because HE loves her. It's all about him, his worries, his stress, his fears, his past. Whatever happened to Zell or Selphie doesn't matter, because Squall's main focus, is Squall.

I kinda don't think Rinoa doesn't ruin it, because even though she plays the role of damsel in distress, originally she was planning to lead a rebel group and play a stronger part before getting caught up in Squall's issues. I see her as a positive thinker, but extremely naive and innocent. Rinoa doesn't realize the true dangers of war, and it gets her into trouble. Rinoa reminds me of the type of teenager that still believes in the Disney fantasy of finding a handsome prince, and everything being magical. While Squall is the opposite and he sees the world in a much gruesome and unforgiving sight.

I also don't like the Balamb flying into the air like a spaceship, characters aside. It was a bit, random and odd.

But really, Squall sucks. He could of done more to actually help his friends and actually care about others, he cared about Rinoa, but only because he loved her.
Before he started having feelings for Rinoa, he hated Rinoa's guts like the rest of them.

 

[Ite]

Well I'm going to disagree with you, Purple Marshmallow. Final Fantasy VIII is, for all intents and purposes, a bildungsroman, which is to say, the focus of its story is the development and coming-of-age of its protagonist (that is why the supporting characters don't get nearly as much focus as in other titles). I think that by the time Squall arrived in Esthar, I had a very good handle on how he worked psychologically. He was the hardest FF protag for me to get a handle on, but the long wait paid off in spades, because once I understood him, watching his journey towards the-power-of-friendship-and-love became all the more satisfying.

I think that the player should take the memory loss into account. It was clear that Cloud had PTSD of some kind so his moodiness and bravado weren't incongruous. But we don't even realize that Squall has memory problems until the end of Disc 2. Before that point, I was kind of mad at the game for not fleshing out Squall's backstory. I mean, what was his life like before the game started? Where did he come from? Why is he such a dickhead? Upon a second playthrough, I realized that Squall knows as much about himself as we do, because he keeps replacing his memories with all the magic he draws. He's working with a few rudimentary facts about himself, and a year or two of memories (at most) in which he was already treated as an uncaring jerk. They say that when people get Dementia, they become charicatures of themselves, like a positive-feedback-loop. Squall's a little different because he doesn't have a long life in which to pick up a personality. Instead, he arrives in the present with nothing, but all of this external projection onto him. It's no wonder he retreated inward, overwhelmed by a mass public opinion of him, formed by things he can't remember.

And yes, it's true that most of the party also suffers from this. It's a shame that we aren't given more of a glimpse into the inner life of the supporting characters, but NONE of the other characters are as projected-upon as Squall (the exception to this rule is Seifer and look how he turned out). I mean, the first thing Quistis does when she sees him with a head injury is roll her eyes and sigh, and then she finishes his sentences and tells him that it's nice to understand how he ticks. Like, what? And that's someone who likes him.

Out of all the FF characters, Squall is the closest thing we have to an everyman. He's a teenager going to school, with social problems. The way Squall behaves (imo) is a very biting commentary on modern youth and the influence of social projection. Once it's clear that Squall's personality has a causal relationship with the external forces that influence him, the themes of the game (fate etc.) are even further explored in his journey to break that cycle,

Spoiler

which leads to his smile at the end, which is either tear-jerking or creepy, your mileage may vary.

Anyway, that's only one of the things going on with Squall. Does it excuse his jackassery? Not really. But it makes him more compelling, which is all I ask in a main character, especially in a bildungsroman.

Rinoa, on the other hand, I don't find compelling at all. Manic-pixie-dream-girls are a dime a dozen. When they're done right, their manic-pixie-dreaminess is fleshed out as a character flaw as well as an ideal (good examples: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Scott Pilgrim vs. The World, etc.) and when the archetype is done poorly, the writer is so obsessed with the love interest that they become a completely unlikeable Mary Sue (Garden State, Final Fantasy VIII). I'll agree about the Disney-idealism and naivety, but the story presents these as likeable qualities in a person and spends as much time trying to convert you to the Rinoa side of the dickhead-pendulum. Squall calls Rinoa on a lot of her bullshit, but the game makes it seem like it's Squall's problem for not liking people, and Rinoa gets off too easy. To me, she's infuriating. It's like that horrible Gold Saucer scene in FFVII where Aeris doesn't know to leave Barret the hell alone, except that in FFVIII it happens every ten minutes with Rinoa and everyone, not just Squall. I still haven't forgiven Rinoa for fucking with the Edea assassination - not because I wanted them to kill Edea, but because the reason she fucks with it is because she's being a whiny bratty bitch. This "Liberation of Timber" entire-character-motivation is abandoned as soon as she glomps onto a man, which doesn't make her good role-model material. The game doesn't address this, which makes the story suffer. When Rinoa isn't getting in the way, she's getting kidnapped. Nothing makes me more mad than when people get their asses kidnapped (exception Mario). The ONLY thing that makes Rinoa likeable for me is the possibility that she might be Ultimecia, but unfortunately it's not canon.

 

[Masamune]

I was still at school last time I finished FFVIII. I recently re-bought the game and decided to give it another shot. Well.... I couldn't even motivate myself to finish the second disc. Why? I can just about tolerate the slipshod plot and insipid characters, but THE BATTLE SYSTEM.

I'm not going to mention the Draw system. That's been done to death. But I hate the fact that your characters are inherently dependent on GFs. They can't even use the frickin' ITEM COMMAND unless their nipples are hooked to a summon. What really killed it for me was when the party split up for the missile quest. At that point, I was royally fed-up of Junction swapping back and forth between my main party and the lesser characters. The other party members should have their own independent strengths and abilities. There is precious little to distinguish between the characters and even less so when the game practically forces you to play swapsy. I actually think the GFs had a better learning curve than the characters: Giving you a list of buffs & specific abilities to choose from, gain AP, learn them, move on to the next one. At least the characters would have some sort of individuality and progression that way.

 

[Ite]

I think the idea there was to emphasize that the GFs did have more individuality and will than the humans. It certainly made the idea that they are usurping the party's minds a little easier to swallow.

And being dependent on GFs is a way to dissuade people from doing no-GF runs, because if they did, the whole memory-loss plot device wouldn't make any sense.

 

[ForceStealer]

It's not a good plot device anyway, as I've bitched before. If there was indication or hints that it was happening at some point earlier in the game, I'd be fine with it. But the asspull used to justify the (all things considered) rather meaningless plot twist just angers me.

 

[Kobato]

I still haven't forgiven Rinoa for fucking with the Edea assassination - not because I wanted them to kill Edea, but because the reason she fucks with it is because she's being a whiny bratty bitch.

But Rinoa stuffed up the mission, because she wanted to prove to Quitsits that she is a strong person and just as strong as the SeeD people are. Quisty was like "stop fooling around, this isn't a game ". And Rinoa grabbed the necklace and waned to defeat Edea herself, to prove that she's serious and a worthy hero and just as heroic as Squall and Zell are. Not to mention Quistis left her post because she wanted to apologize. Quistis and the others should of stayed, so it wasn't only Rinoa who was at blame.
She wasn't being a whiny, bratty bitch. She wanted to help. Hence why she showed everybody the necklace, thinking Edea could be defeated this way. It's not her fault that her father also happened to be part of the mission and then try and lock her in doors. Everybody, her dad and Quistis were basically saying that you're not strong enough, and you can't do it. So what does Rinoa do ? She sets out there with the motive that she CAN do it.
I don't remember any whining or being bitchy.

 

[Ite]

I'll admit, Quistis returning to the house was a stupid move, but despite the "hi-larious mishap", they still manage to return to their post on time because they are SeeDs, and that's what SeeDs do.

The assassination plot was extremely delicate (as most are) and was entrusted only to SeeDs -- people who have spent their entire lives in military training. The fact that Rinoa thought she could out-do them was both presumptive and stupid. Not sitting the hell down and letting professionals to their job is bratty, foolish, vainglorious, self-righteous and childish. Also, when you're trying to assassinate someone, the idea there is to NOT alert them to your presence. So where does Rinoa go? RIGHT UP TO THE MARK. I don't care if she thought the necklace would protect her, what about the extremely intricate plot that involved five SeeDs, and the Galbadian General? What about the massive conspiracy set up by Garden? It was too lame for her because she was pissed at her daddy and wanted to show him good. Hence, bratty.

And guess what? Everyone was right, Rinoa wasn't strong enough to be involved, because she got her ass hypnotized or something and almost killed by Igions. Rinoa only becomes powerful at the end of Disc 2 and I still have trouble believing that because her Angel Wing limit break is so maddening that I stopped using her completely.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Game Play:

Meltdown. It causes Vit 0 on *every* enemy in the game, including all the bosses and it's also the best Vitality junction. It's also rediculously easy to refine.

Pain. Poison, Silence and Darkness on an enemy. Best of all? You don't even have to cast it because can junction it to ST ATK.

^^Cheapest spells in the entire game.

Cactars. My GFs love you.

The Deep Sea Deposit. Why would we even want to fight Omega WEAPON when it's an infinite supply of Curse Spikes(Shaman Stone, Rosetta Stone), Meteor, and Flare magic?

Limit Breaks. Bad news: we now can't save Limit Breaks for the upcoming boss battle. Good news: attacking your allies is to your benefit. Best news: Aura spells!

Triple Triad. Yey! A mini-game that does not depend on how fast you press buttons. And it even lets you somewhat control how much strategy the game has because of how all the areas have different rules. Why was it only in FFVIII?

Having to depend on GFs for the Item command never bothered me because I rarely ever use that command in battle even when it's always available. I generally always use magic instead. It doesn't help either when Curagas come from tents and you literally have an infinite supply of money with Call Shop, Haggle and Sell High, not to mention refining abilities...

^^It's almost as if the game's system was designed to be broken if you were in the know or had played it once.

Story:

For me, the weakest plot point is not the orphanage, but the "memory loss" caused by the GFs. The problem is that it's not memory loss; Irvine describes the orphanage and like five sentences later, everyone else remembers it. That sounds more like the memories got shifted around and Squall and Co. couldn't remember them without the correct stimuli then them having the memories erased. Also, Squall remembers Ellone leaving him before Irvine brings the orphanage up.

 

[Ite]

Irvine describes the orphanage and like five sentences later, everyone else remembers it. That sounds more like the memories got shifted around and Squall and Co. couldn't remember them without the correct stimuli then them having the memories erased.

Damn. You're right.

Also, Squall remembers Ellone leaving him before Irvine brings the orphanage up.

I don't doubt that Squall had memories of a 'sis' leaving him, and standing in the rain around a pillar. But when you're a kid you can't contextualize memories. It's like trying to remember what happened in a dream. Squall has pieces, images, but not the whole picture until Irvine puts it together for him.

The problem there is that the game does a HORRIBLE job of telling this super convoluted plot point. It's explained in like five minutes and never mentioned again.