Final Fantasy XIII-2

[Fangu]

Spoiler: Ending

I thought the ending itself was good. I just wish it was longer and had more scenes. I liked the parallel of Serah/Noel vs Yeul/Caius and I thought the ending fit the story. Of course I'm hoping for some sort of happy resolve. But still - we did get one of the happy endings, didn't we - the one in Academia 4XX was pretty optimistic.

 

[Alex Strife]

Do you imagine if FFXIII-3 was a sequel of one of the alternative endings? Best trolling ever.

Also, inb4 someone mentions the flan ending.

 

[Strangelove]

FFXIII-3: Mog Madness

80 hours of nothing but Mog and moogles.

Note: does not advance the overal mythology or story.

 

[Zee]

Spoiler: Ending

I thought the ending itself was good. I just wish it was longer and had more scenes. I liked the parallel of Serah/Noel vs Yeul/Caius and I thought the ending fit the story. Of course I'm hoping for some sort of happy resolve. But still - we did get one of the happy endings, didn't we - the one in Academia 4XX was pretty optimistic.

Spoiler

Agreed with the first half; the parallels were really well set up and heartbreaking aaaaah.

However I fucking hate the Academia 4XX ending, ugh.

 

[ForceStealer]

So...does everyone dislike this story simply because of the ending? Because at 13 hours in...I dunno, it has me kind of interested.

And yeah, I like Noel. He's very down-to-earth. Probably the most down-to-earth this side of Lulu.

 

[Zee]

I think that story is great; I see the ending less as an ending (cause it's really not) and more of one more set of events that's happening in this larger tale.

also idk maybe it's just me but i followed a lot of the timey wimey stuff just fine. most of the time it made about as much sense/was about as serious as your average doctor who episode but idec because i love that shit.

 

[ForceStealer]

Again, I'm not THAT far along, but the time travel stuff is all making plenty of sense to me. Hell, it's easier to follow than XIII was.

 

[AvecAloes]

Again, I'm not THAT far along, but the time travel stuff is all making plenty of sense to me. Hell, it's easier to follow than XIII was.

I will definitely agree with that. I didn't have a problem with the story of XIII-2, and the ending only upset me because

Spoiler

of the cliffhanger nature (hey, I like wrap-ups), and the fact that Serah died and I wasn't expecting it and I actually liked her character, and then there was Lightening all crystallized and awwww man

, but I didn't have a problem with it as an ending.

 

[Aqua]

The storyline is pretty straight forward in my eyes. Just that ending...

Honestly, my favourite parts of the game have to be all the little nuggets of info you get in the form of fragments and even the Brain Blast questions. They just make the world of Gran Pulse seem so much fuller and realistic. And of course, the little nods to previous games is always a lot of fun to find.

 

[Splintered]

So...does everyone dislike this story simply because of the ending? Because at 13 hours in...I dunno, it has me kind of interested.

And yeah, I like Noel. He's very down-to-earth. Probably the most down-to-earth this side of Lulu.

I think what it comes down to is that there's not much too it in the end. Everything is explained be either "Etros did it" or "Paradox did it." And it's sciency terms are kind of lol worthy

Spoiler

how Hope explains they slept to the future with a "strong gravitational field" had be rolling my eyes. I can buy pretty much any bad science fiction someone throws my way but that wasn't even trying.

A lot of people are annoyed by the fact that everything can be explained by "a paradox did it" but it didn't really bother me. I mean, that was sort of the point, right? Someone broke time, it screws with reality, your mission is to fix it, so if your side mission also have to deal with paradoxes it makes sense.

That and unlike XIII, this story is heavily mythology based. Magic here unlike the other games isn't really a naturally occurring thing. It's usually done because there was some sort of intervention. The entire mythology is based around the gods' conflicts in the first place.

That said I'm just going to throw it out there, I liked XIII's story better. XIII-2 had better actual story telling, but I've always really enjoyed XIII's plot and world. It just took... a really long time to understand what the fuck was going on. I remember seeing the ending of XIII for the first time thinking, this is the worst ending every, wtf just happened. About a month of discussion, debate, and reading up on it, I went back to play the game and it was so much more interesting when I knew what and why things were happening, and I loved the ending so much more.

Although XIII-2 gets mythology talk and I like FNC mythology. The time travel/search for Lightning part wasn't as compelling as the Noel-Yuel-Caius story though. That's the real heart of XIII-2.

Honestly, my favourite parts of the game have to be all the little nuggets of info you get in the form of fragments and even the Brain Blast questions.

I love this too. They tried to do this in the first game but it wasn't as fun as how they did it in this game.

 

[Zee]

Honestly, my favourite parts of the game have to be all the little nuggets of info you get in the form of fragments and even the Brain Blast questions. They just make the world of Gran Pulse seem so much fuller and realistic. And of course, the little nods to previous games is always a lot of fun to find.

This. The world building for XIII-2 is just really great aaaaah

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Again, I'm not THAT far along, but the time travel stuff is all making plenty of sense to me. Hell, it's easier to follow than XIII was.

I don't think there's anything difficult to follow on the time travel side of things (I really don't think anyone means this when they say the plot is hard to follow or doesn't make sense), but there's a lot about the plot that could have done with explanining. And parts that did get "explained" seemingly raise more questions.

Take for instance

Spoiler

the out-of-game explanation that Serah's powers are a result of being touched by Etro when the goddess freed her from crystal stasis at the end of XIII. Why didn't anyone else whom Etro touched there get these powers? Why didn't Fang or Vanille get them when Etro interfered in the War of Trangression?

Speaking of Etro's interference then, why didn't that cause a time anomaly too? Why did her interference cause a distortion at all? Some chaos bleeding through and needing to be stemmed doesn't explain diddly dick. Again, why didn't that happen during the War of Transgression?

And why was it so problematic for Caius to kill Etro in the first place if he's been carrying around her heart all this time? I just don't understand this at all. Yes, he felt that only Noel could do it, but, uh, why? Was it because of that Guardian tradition bullshit? If it was, why would he still be hung up on that if he's thrown away all the other principles of the Farseer traditions? I'm pretty sure abandoning Yeul and trying to kill Etro would be no-nos, so why give a crap about this?

About the only explanation that has been valuable is the one about Alyssa having originally died in the Purge -- and even that one wasn't explained in the game itself.

And then we get the shit ending on top of it all.

Just bah.

 

[Zee]

Spoiler

Speaking of Etro's interference then, why didn't that cause a time anomaly too? Why did her interference cause a distortion at all?

I sort of took it as, "even if you're a god, you can't just fuck around with the natural order of things willy-nilly"?

Her demise and the subsequent chaos leaking out was a gradual process due to her doing whatever she wanted, hence why her initial interference during the War didn't cause as much noticeable damage? I thought that the point of Vanille's paradox "ending" was that Serah being there technically shouldn't have happened and was timey wimey bullshit caused by Etro.

And why was it so problematic for Caius to kill Etro in the first place if he's been carrying around her heart all this time? I just don't understand this at all. Yes, he felt that only Noel could do it, but, uh, why?

Didn't you have to be strong enough to destroy the heart? Hence the paradox ending when Noel just gets taken over by the heart when he kills Caius too early. But when you finally face him Noel has no intention of inheriting it so it just goes bam boom chaos

Also since Caius was immortal just killing himself wouldn't do jack -- he essentially kills himself every time he turns into a dragon, but he just keeps being reborn.

the out-of-game explanation that Serah's powers are a result of being touched by Etro when the goddess freed her from crystal stasis at the end of XIII. Why didn't anyone else whom Etro touched there get these powers? Why didn't Fang or Vanille get them when Etro interfered in the War of Trangression?

There's a few theories going around that it deals with Serah's relation to Yeul; that Serah is like one of her "incarnations" or meant to inherit her eyes the way Noel was meant to inherit the heart from Caius (and in both cases THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE and since Noel was destined to protect her anyway...)

anyway im gonna thank your post because i like making theories about this game

 

[Splintered]

Spoiler

And why was it so problematic for Caius to kill Etro in the first place if he's been carrying around her heart all this time? I just don't understand this at all. Yes, he felt that only Noel could do it, but, uh, why? Was it because of that Guardian tradition bullshit?

I thought it was just physically impossible for him to do it. That the only way for the heart of etros to perish is if a guardian destroys it with enough resolve. There's definitely a sense of magic behind how to destroy the heart because a guardian CAN destroy the heart, but if it isn't done right, then instead of destroying it, it's simply passed down to him. That's what happens in one of the paradox endings.

What I don't get is that Noel actually doesn't want to kill Caius, and therefore doesn't have the right mindset to destroy the heart of Etros. Caius has to force him to do it. By those rights, Noel should have been given the heart of etros and lived forever as well.

the out-of-game explanation that Serah's powers are a result of being touched by Etro when the goddess freed her from crystal stasis at the end of XIII.

This never bothered me the same way I never questioned why some people learned magic when arriving on Gran Pulse and some people did. Or why Etros blessed Caius instead of the other guardians before him. I mean, they are all blessed by Etros if they are able to time travel at all, the fact that Lightning was chosen to guard Etros and Serah was chosen to see time never really stood out to me. Luck of the draw.

And poor Hope. He gets nothing. Except science, and that's the only thing that doesn't look like it comes without any side effects so, good for him.


My biggest issue is with the time paradox endings. Like, if the paradoxes are finished, does that mean everything relating to it disappears? That's some serious history changing shit. I mean, even the Brain Blaster quiz notes that the most talked about issue in textbooks is time paradoxes and travel. That means an entire chunk of the culture is written out. And what about Alyssa, if she is written out of time, so should all the things she's done. And wasn't she the one that created the time-sleeping-travel machine? So Hope shouldn't be there in the first place. What about the NPC that lived happily and managed to start a family when he stumbled in a different time? Does he go back, or does he stay.

The time travel stuff makes perfect sense for me, up until how its resolution affects the timeline.

Well, I guess none of that shit matters because time is destroyed. JOKES ON ME I GUESS.
EDIT

There's a few theories going around that it deals with Serah's relation to Yeul; that Serah is like one of her "incarnations" or meant to inherit her eyes the way Noel was meant to inherit the heart from Caius (and in both cases THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE and since Noel was destined to protect her anyway...)

Isn't there a Yuel you meet in the Void beyond that is from Serah's time?

 

[Zee]

Spoiler

This never bothered me the same way I never questioned why some people learned magic when arriving on Gran Pulse and some people did. Or why Etros blessed Caius instead of the other guardians before him. I mean, they are all blessed by Etros if they are able to time travel at all, the fact that Lightning was chosen to guard Etros and Serah was chosen to see time never really stood out to me. Luck of the draw.

I mostly agree but I just feel like with Lightning and Serah they were more "destined" to have those roles more than it just being luck.

The datalog does say Etro blessed all her children with powers that they could access if they knew how, but Light and Serah are special snowflakes because they are so great.

 

[Zee]

im sorry double postan'

Spoiler

Isn't there a Yuel you meet in the Void beyond that is from Serah's time?

Ah, there is, forgot about that. I do like that scene and Yeul's weird coaching of Serah in being a Seer.

idk I kinda like the notion of Yeul being like the darkhorse chessmaster since she saw everything that was going to happen, and specifically helps Noel and Serah because she knows only they can eventually beat Caius.

and then caius can weep bloody tears because yeul wins

i just want this because of reasons

 

[Splintered]

Spoiler

I mostly agree but I just feel like with Lightning and Serah they were more "destined" to have those roles more than it just being luck.

The datalog does say Etro blessed all her children with powers that they could access if they knew how, but Light and Serah are special snowflakes because they are so great.

Spoiler

"Because they are main characters" works for me.

I mostly liked it because of how it plays with the "dead little sister" cliche. I like Lightning better, but at least on paper, the idea of the dead little sister/damsel in distress upgrading to the main character/action girl is a concept I like.

I like how she plays the dead little sister trope in XIII, subverts it with her own "search for dead big sister" (granted, Lightning needs less saving), and plays it completely straight by dying again. Massive trolls all around.

I wasn't a fan of the ending, but I will admit, a part of me wants to rage at it, the other part makes me laugh really hard.

 

[Zee]

Spoiler

I wasn't a fan of the ending, but I will admit, a part of me wants to rage at it, the other part makes me laugh really hard.

i think we should just rate our feelings on the ending from 1 to mass effect 3

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Spoiler

I sort of took it as, "even if you're a god, you can't just fuck around with the natural order of things willy-nilly"?

Spoiler

I guess, but time paradoxes? I just ... why? Because Valhalla is a timeless place and the chaos is its sewage, maybe?

Spoiler

Her demise and the subsequent chaos leaking out was a gradual process due to her doing whatever she wanted, hence why her initial interference during the War didn't cause as much noticeable damage?

Spoiler

Maybe that then. She was stronger the last time and didn't let shit leak out?

Spoiler

Didn't you have to be strong enough to destroy the heart? Hence the paradox ending when Noel just gets taken over by the heart when he kills Caius too early.

Spoiler

If it were that, one has to wonder why that paradox ending would even be possible. Hadn't Caius decided back in his and Noel's own time that Noel was ready to do whatever needed to be done?

It still seems silly that he couldn't do it himself, but I guess we wouldn't have a plot otherwise.

Anyway im gonna thank your post because i like making theories about this game

And I'll thank yours for being helpful.

Spoiler

I thought it was just physically impossible for him to do it. That the only way for the heart of etros to perish is if a guardian destroys it with enough resolve. There's definitely a sense of magic behind how to destroy the heart because a guardian CAN destroy the heart, but if it isn't done right, then instead of destroying it, it's simply passed down to him. That's what happens in one of the paradox endings.

What I don't get is that Noel actually doesn't want to kill Caius, and therefore doesn't have the right mindset to destroy the heart of Etros. Caius has to force him to do it. By those rights, Noel should have been given the heart of etros and lived forever as well.

Spoiler

Great observation. That's something else that could use an explanation.

Spoiler

My biggest issue is with the time paradox endings. Like, if the paradoxes are finished, does that mean everything relating to it disappears? That's some serious history changing shit. I mean, even the Brain Blaster quiz notes that the most talked about issue in textbooks is time paradoxes and travel. That means an entire chunk of the culture is written out. And what about Alyssa, if she is written out of time, so should all the things she's done. And wasn't she the one that created the time-sleeping-travel machine? So Hope shouldn't be there in the first place. What about the NPC that lived happily and managed to start a family when he stumbled in a different time? Does he go back, or does he stay.

The time travel stuff makes perfect sense for me, up until how its resolution affects the timeline.

Well, I guess none of that shit matters because time is destroyed. JOKES ON ME I GUESS.

Spoiler

No need to explain the effects on the timeline, I guess, when "Timeline? What timeline?"

But if they actually follow up on this game at some point and end it not unhappily, they had better.

 

[Fangu]

Spoiler: Alyssa stuff

About the only explanation that has been valuable is the one about Alyssa having originally died in the Purge -- and even that one wasn't explained in the game itself.

Oh crap I didn't get that one at all! Why was that never explained?!

Spoiler

I wish we saw more of Alyssa. Like, why she did the things she did. She was stressed out about stuff, so to me it's perfectly plausible she would do them. I just wish I knew her better.

 

[Splintered]

Really? I thought Alyssa's story was easily guessable.

Spoiler

She hints at it big time in the game, with her montage about seeing her death in the Bresha ruins, saying she doesn't exist in their future, and if you talk to the people in Academia- everyone forgets her.

I wish they did more with her as well. I love her premise. I was never attached to her as a character but I don't think I was suppose to. They did a good job making the player feel just uncomfortable enough with her, but not suspect she was evil or anything. But in general, doing the opposite of Serah and trying to survive at the cost of others would have been a great foil.

Probably the most interesting discussion that I've seen come out of XIII-2 is whether or not Alyssa is an evil sociopath, or what she did was wrong but completely understandable.

I mean, in the ending scene, Caius grabs Noel's sword (hey there) and says to him that if he take the responsibility to change history, he has to take the responsibility of choosing who gets to live and who dies. What better way to illustrate that than Alyssa's fate. Seriously, she's an ambitious, well liked, genius young woman who if history changes, not only dies a terrible death around Yuel's age, but everything she's ever done after that point and everyone she's met will just disappear. And the whole thing terrifies her too.

They could have made that situation so much emotional but they reduced her to cartoon villain-ish in the Academia 4XX ending. Which is weird because they have no problem with melodrama camp.

 

[Purple]

I thought the game was great. The main story was so short though. You could beat it in less than 20 hours if you don't do much fragment collecting.

I liked Noel. Not overly badass yet not overly brooding either. Serah surprised me, I thought she'd be Vanille's second reincarnation and I'm glad I was wrong. Mog was the cutest, I was really shocked to find out the Ariel Winter (Alex from Modern Family) was her/his voice actor!

The main story could've been richer but it was a sequel, so I guess a shorter one was to be expected. The ending was great, haters gonna hate.

 

[Arianna]

Spoiler: Alyssa

All I can say about Alyssa is that I feel bad for her. I understand why she did what she did. She knew she was not supposed to be alive at all, she struggled with that thought of 'what if' and then she struggled with accepting the truth of the matter. She fought, but ultimately, she succumbed to the reality. I know she's not a real person, but all I can say is that I hope she would have an easier death in the warped time line than she did in reality. She knew the reality of her true death, no need to make her suffer again.

Spoiler: Proto-fal'Cie Adam

I also feel bad for fal'Cie Eden. Proto-fal'Cie Adam was created from parts of Eden's matrix, or however they explained it in the one or two fragments on the topic. Really, I think it's horrible how Hope pulls a Dr. Frankenstein on her. Slightly off topic., I think XIII-2 proves that Eden was a female fal'Cie. Even though named for a male in her 'revival', the voice of the so-called AI was female. Seriously though, I think Hope just proved himself, and humanity, as sick as they claimed the fal'Cie were for working to do away with Cocoon.

 

[Mwynn]

I'm very much a fan of the whole FNC series, and I think it was utilized greatly in the XIII saga. The only flaw being was the way it was executed in-game with poor story-telling methods.

In fact I have made a page with short posts of an overview on the facts, specifically on XIII and XIII-2. I would post a link, but I'll have to post more to be able to. : )

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Spoiler: Re: Alyssa

I love what you guys (Splintered and Arianna) had to say about her. She could have easily become one of the most interesting characters FF has ever had if she had just been given the proper attention.

Instead, she was a fucking Scooby-Doo villain.

Spoiler: Proto-fal'Cie Adam

I also feel bad for fal'Cie Eden. Proto-fal'Cie Adam was created from parts of Eden's matrix, or however they explained it in the one or two fragments on the topic. Really, I think it's horrible how Hope pulls a Dr. Frankenstein on her. Slightly off topic., I think XIII-2 proves that Eden was a female fal'Cie. Even though named for a male in her 'revival', the voice of the so-called AI was female. Seriously though, I think Hope just proved himself, and humanity, as sick as they claimed the fal'Cie were for working to do away with Cocoon.

Spoiler

I'm not sure how to feel about Eden. If she was effectively dead by the time he tinkered with her anyway, Hope didn't really do anything unethical, right? She really had nothing until he ressurrected her.

And, in any case, his reasons were well-intentioned.

And, yeah, Eden appears to be feminine. Remember those feminine-looking fal'Cie inside Orphan's Cradle? Pretty sure those were representations of Eden.