Final Fantasy XIII Non-Spoiler Thread

[Cat Rage Room]

I'm just sort of concerned, here, you know? I don't want to be a prophet of doom or something, but I haven't really been too impressed with FF as of late. I don't want this one to be the final nail in the coffin.

 

[Alex]

Minimal gameplay, using the same attack over and over again, linking level progression to plot progression, etc is good?

Well yeah, I'd be perfecly happy with that.

I'd rather that the tedious and unrewarding grindfest that was FFXII. This news comes as a tremendous breath of fresh air.

The Compilation of FFVII has already tried its hardest to kill Final Fantasy, and people still rather amazingly haven't given up on the series. So I'm not worried.

 

[Tetsujin]

Minimal gameplay, using the same attack over and over again

From what I heard from people who played this, just attacking all the time *will* actually get you killed. You really do need to utilize the whole Paradigm Shift thingy, apparently.

And the whole level cap thing apparently avoids letting you power up to the point where the game becomes a walk in the park.
Hey, they said this is supposed to be more challenging, right?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

The level cap thing makes sense to me. It helps keep players at a level where they'll still be challenged.

The scarcity of money and reliance of loot drops doesn't concern me, I remember FF12 being a lot like that.

It sounds different, not sure if it's for better or worse, but it doesn't scare me off.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I'd rather that the tedious and unrewarding grindfest that was FFXII. This news comes as a tremendous breath of fresh air.

That's pretty bad logic, bro. You're saying that since they tried something on one extreme that you didn't like, them doing the same thing on the opposite extreme is perfectly fine? Whatever happened to just in the middle?

Minimal gameplay? Why not a decent amount of gameplay? Pressing attack over and over? Why not make a game that rewards strategy and thinking? Leveling caps? Why not freedom for players to play the game however they like?

How is this perfectly fine? If that's perfectly fine with you, why not just watch a movie? What really strikes me is that you're perfectly fine with minimal gameplay. How is this perfectly fine with anyone? This is one of the reason why JRPGs and FF in particular catch so much flak. I'd rather make the gameplay part of the interactive experience rather than watching a bunch of movies.

 

[Tetsujin]

Pressing attack over and over? Why not make a game that rewards strategy and thinking?

I'd like to repeat that people who have actually played the game seem to say that just attacking *will* get you killed.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I'd like to repeat that people who have actually played the game seem to say that just attacking *will* get you killed.

I know, but I'm arguing on Fang on why he would be perfectly fine with it even if that was the case. It seriously boggles my mind.

 

[ForceStealer]

Minimal gameplay, using the same attack over and over again, linking level progression to plot progression, etc is good? I'm not trying to turn off anyone to the game, but none of those things sound good to me, assuming they're accurate.

You're also cherry-picking anything negative and not responding at all to the positive things people are posting.

And by the way, I loved Xenosaga. As long as its a good movie, I have no problems watching it. The interactivity is just icing by that point.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

You're also cherry-picking anything negative and not responding at all to the positive things people are posting.

Because those things, if true (and I realize they may not be true at all) are pretty much game killers to me. Sure, I acknowledge the good parts, mostly because of course it's FINAL FANTASY and well, there are tons and thousands of people singing praises about the game, as been the case for almost all of them ever. I've heard the good points a million times and I realize that. I'm not trying to trick myself into not looking forward to the game or not liking it, but if these negative points are indeed true, yes, those reasons are pretty big detriments.

 

[Alex]

That's pretty bad logic, bro. You're saying that since they tried something on one extreme that you didn't like, them doing the same thing on the opposite extreme is perfectly fine? Whatever happened to just in the middle?

Minimal gameplay? Why not a decent amount of gameplay? Pressing attack over and over? Why not make a game that rewards strategy and thinking? Leveling caps? Why not freedom for players to play the game however they like?

How is this perfectly fine? If that's perfectly fine with you, why not just watch a movie? What really strikes me is that you're perfectly fine with minimal gameplay. How is this perfectly fine with anyone? This is one of the reason why JRPGs and FF in particular catch so much flak. I'd rather make the gameplay part of the interactive experience rather than watching a bunch of movies.

The middle has been done before in previous Final Fantasy games though. It's not bad logic really, the opposite extreme is exactly what I was looking for considering what a tedious time I had with FFXII. A more story driven approach is exactly what I'm looking for and comes as somewhat of a relief.

I don't want to watch a movie because thats hardly as immersive or as rewarding as playing the game. And as long as it has more actual gameplay than MGS4 then I'm not going to complain. Besides, I thought that JRPGs get so much flak because of things like the necessity of the repetitive amount level grinding needed to actually progress the story. So I'm not going to complain if SE wants to make their games more accessible to those who were previously skeptical of them.

It's all about experimentation, they tried going back to a more traditional, less immersive story with much more focus on the new battle system. And I know for many people, myself included, it didn't fell like the Final Fantasy's we'd grown used to because of this shift away from the heavy emphasis on story.

Now they're experimenting again on the opposite end of the spectrum. Hell, this might not work either, but in my opinion its far more likely to be a step in the right direction.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

The middle has been done before in previous Final Fantasy games though.

Yes, and there was criticism of that even then. Now it's time for them to progress beyond that.

It's not bad logic really, the opposite extreme is exactly what I was looking for considering what a tedious time I had with FFXII. A more story driven approach is exactly what I'm looking for and comes as somewhat of a relief.

I can't understand that logic. To use an analogy, if someone cooks me a hamburger and it's underdone, doing the opposite, overcooking it isn't much better. Why not just aim for middle ground and do it right? There are ways to tell a great story other than taking away the gameplay, and other genres have been doing it better than JRPGs recently.

Besides, I thought that JRPGs get so much flak because of things like the necessity of the repetitive amount level grinding needed to actually progress the story

Considering how easy JRPGs are, no, I've never heard this complaint. Almost none of the FF and even less JRPGs require you to grind at any point. This complaint applies to WRPGs.

It's all about experimentation, they tried going back to a more traditional, less immersive story with much more focus on the new battle system. And I know for many people, myself included, it didn't fell like the Final Fantasy's we'd grown used to because of this shift away from the heavy emphasis on story.

Now they're experimenting again on the opposite end of the spectrum. Hell, this might not work either, but in my opinion its far more likely to be a step in the right direction.

You're acting like story and gameplay are mutably exclusive. They aren't, especially in this generation of games. The 'one thing or the other' philosophy is well, frankly, stupid.

 

[Alex]

Yes, and there was criticism of that even then. Now it's time for them to progress beyond that.

Yeah, I was agreeing. It is time to progress beyond the middle ground, since earlier Final Fantasy's have pretty much covered that. So its time to branch out and try new things.

I can't understand that logic. To use an analogy, if someone cooks me a hamburger and it's underdone, doing the opposite, overcooking it isn't much better. Why not just aim for middle ground and do it right? There are ways to tell a great story other than taking away the gameplay, and other genres have been doing it better than JRPGs recently.

Because at least one will be edible. I'm saying that this is what I'd prefer to have from a Final Fantasy game. It's cool if you can't understand my logic, but Final Fantasy isn't the series I've come to associate with many hours of tiring gamepay whilst the story decides to vacate the room for several hours (which is why I was miffed at FFXII)

Considering how easy JRPGs are, no, I've never heard this complaint. Almost none of the FF and even less JRPGs require you to grind at any point. This complaint applies to WRPGs.

Okay, but that doesn't change the fact that its one of the biggest complaints levelled against JRPGs and why they're so unaccessible to a good section of gamers. Cue Star Ocean: The Last Hope as an example.

You're acting like story and gameplay are mutably exclusive. They aren't, especially in this generation of games. The 'one thing or the other' philosophy is well, frankly, stupid.

I'm not acting like anything, I'm going by past experience with recent Final Fantasy games. FFXII felt to me that the gameplay and the story are mutually exclusive, and it really let me down.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Final Fantasy isn't the series I've come to associate with many hours of tiring gamepay whilst the story decides to vacate the room for several hours (which is why I was miffed at FFXII)

That's because the gameplay wasn't good, not because it was there.

Okay, but that doesn't change the fact that its one of the biggest complaints levelled against JRPGs and why they're so unaccessible to a good section of gamers.

I've never heard this!

FXII felt to me that the gameplay and the story are mutually exclusive, and it really let me down.

But they aren't. The myriad of other games that combine story and gameplay into an enjoyable experience are proof of that.

 

[Alex]

They might not be mutually exclusive in other games. But I'm not bothered about them, I just want to see one of my favourite series' not make another cock up like they did in FFXII. It still might be a cock up, but first impressions for me look good.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

They might not be mutually exclusive in other games. But I'm not bothered about them, I just want to see one of my favourite series' not make another cock up like they did in FFXII. It still might be a cock up, but first impressions for me look good.

Neither do I, which is why the notion of doing something completely opposite of what they're doing doesn't sound good to me at all. Assuming these rumors are true (and I'm not saying they are), do you really think people will be receptive towards them? No, they're just go "Wow, the lack of gameplay is one of the many reasons JRPGs suck, back to Fallout 3 and Mass Effect", which, if you look at sales figures and general sentiments, this is what has been happening for years.

JRPGs are on a slippery slope downwards recently, and a lot of people know it. Making a linear no gameplay movie fest isn't going to bode good at all.

 

[Strangelove]

I'm not that far in (chapter 4 at the moment), but so far I've found the battles to be a good enough balance between "just pressing attack" and having to do a bit of planning. The first menu option, which automatically selects a series of attacks for you, does make it easy, but it's not like you're forced to use it only and since there's no 'ATB: wait' option this time I like having it. (Unless I missed the wait option, I only saw one for setting the battle speed to slower or normal.) Having to select each attack and then a target would probably lead to you getting killed a lot.

More of the strategy seems to be in the whole Chain/Break and Optima systems. It's still not one of the hardest games ever, but I like the balance so far.

Also, I'm glad that you're healed after every battle, personally. I would have used up all my potions otherwise.

I'm still in the 'linear' first half of the game, but I like the ratio of gameplay-to-cutscenes as well. I don't particularly mind cutscenes, I'd rather get rewarded for my playing through a dungeon with some cutscenes than just another dungeon to crawl through. But so far I think it's done a good job mixing it up. You're not left wandering around with nothing going on for ages, and the cutscenes aren't anywhere near the level of MGS4 (or even Xenosaga) and just break it up a bit.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

and the cutscenes aren't anywhere near the level of MGS4 (or even Xenosaga) and just break it up a bit.

Oh thank God.

 

[Alex]

Yeah, thats pretty damn good news.

 

[Strangelove]

There's still a far number of cutscenes, but you're given bits of gameplay between them rather than them being lumped together, and they aren't really that long.

I'm personally liking the linear start/fixed parties. I like how it keeps switching between the different characters and showing what's going on for them before moving to the others. I don't really see why the fixed parties thing was considered a problem.

Now I've levelled up the Crystarium grid more and have more abilities, I've started selecting commands on my own and using 'Repeat' instead of using the auto-select. You can't always depend on it for picking what you want (like Fira > Fire instead of Fire > Aero > Fire or something). Though I still use it for focusing on breaking single enemies or repetitive tasks like casting Protect/Shell on everyone.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Is the 'no towns' thing true?

 

[Strangelove]

So far it is. I'm up to chapter 7 at least, but where you go is being dictated by the story. Which doesn't really involve many towns, except technically two. (

Spoiler

Small part of one [don't know the spelling, pronounced like 'Boredom'] in a flashback, and I'm just about to sneak into another [Palumpolum? Hope's hometown] but that's being occupied by Sanctum guards and doesn't look like I'll be able to walk around freely. Sazh and Vanille are on the way to another, an entertainment-based city [Nautilus?], which sounds like minigames and extra stuff but I guess I'll see.

). The first part of the game pretty much involves uninhabited locations.

The story still moves on and shops/weapons are handled at the save points (which there seems to be an abundance of), so you're not really at a particular disadvantage for it, unless you were people to walk around some towns and talk to random NPCs.

 

[Ghost X]

It makes you wonder why they called it Final Fantasy, eh?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

It makes you wonder why they called it Final Fantasy, eh?

No it does not.

At the core of Final Fantasy, nothing is consistent. Oh sure, we get Chocobos and Moogles and Cid and summons, but in terms of story and gameplay structure, every new installment in the series brings new elements, upholds some old ones and discards others. Final Fantasy has been very differently characterized across the media, compare say, FF4, FF6 and FF8. You can't, can you? Because in terms of gameplay, story and world, all of them are different. This is what makes the series enduring to me, that every game can somehow seem familiar and yet be different. If the games didn't strive to push the boundaries of its universe and expand on its gameplay and storyline traditions, we'd have the Zelda series on our hands.

Final Fantasy 13 *would not* just be a jumbled rehash of elements from old games, I would hope we all knew this going in. But just because it would be *different* from its predecessors does not make it any less of a Final Fantasy game. A rainbow made up of subtly different shades of the same color is nowhere near as beautiful or stunning as a rainbow made up of dozens of different colors. Final Fantasy 13 is just another strip of light blue. Or maybe violet. Not sure yet.

 

[Tetsujin]

Map of Gran Pulse coming up.

Unconfirmed info: It apparently takes 15 minutes to get across. Or so I heard.

 

[Super Mario]

Ahhhh! brings back memories, shit reminds me of FFXII's ridiculously large maps.