Final Fantasy XIII Spoiler Thread (SPOILERS)

I suppose I read enough fantasy novels that I'm just used to the storytelling style, I honestly enjoy it a lot more than ' I can't believe it's been 500 years since the war of the Magi'

FFXIII had issues, mostly the giant corridor, but I sincerely loved the storytelling style, and I missed it in the sequels.
 

Fangu

Great Old One
I've watched all of them as they appeared. I even commented on one. They are good discussion videos and I really enjoy them, although he tends to repeat himself a lot, like five or six times in one of the videos. But he does point that out himself, so :P

There are a few really good reviews on that channel too. The Chrono Trigger one made me tear up xD
 
Replaying this. Doing a 'lazy pacifist' run, ie, avoid all combat where possible, but finish the fights you start if caught. Just hit Pulse, where I'm expecting to run into problems.

Wow, the storytelling in this game is phenomenal.
 
I feel like I'm doing this wrong, because I didn't expect to get this far. My two previous attempts at this were stopped by Aster Protoflorian and Barthandelus, but I've now got to the Dahaka bossfight.

Kinda feel bad for it, he's just minding his own business being a giant skyworm and then we broke into his house, unleashed the Menhirrim on him, then killed him for no apparent reason.

Hecatoncheir was just as annoying as I remember. I had to dodge the Boxed Phalanxes after finding them unbeatable and the Ambling Bellows in the tower nearly stopped me cold.
 
Still Dahaka. I don't think he's unbeatable, but so far I haven't been able to hurt him enough before the Doom timer counts down. I used to be able to Summon to get extra time, but it didn't work the last time I tried. I predict problems with Barthandelus.
 

Kuja9001

Ooooh Salty!
AKA
roxas9001, Krat0s9001, DarkSlayerZero
Still Dahaka. I don't think he's unbeatable, but so far I haven't been able to hurt him enough before the Doom timer counts down. I used to be able to Summon to get extra time, but it didn't work the last time I tried. I predict problems with Barthandelus.
My fav fal'Cie!!! Who are you using party wise?
 
Snow/Vanille/Hope. I need a sentinel and two strong medics to keep up with his damage, and a Saboteur/Synergist Combo. Also Tri-Disaster to stagger him quickly. Out of Fortisols and Aegisols. Where this selection falls is in pure damage output. Could possibly use Fang instead as Sentinel and raise the stagger gauge with Relentless Assault, but that didn't work as well when I tried it.

It's interesting how integrated the battle system is with the characters. It's very well thought out.

Sazh is ' Increase damage' Synergist, Hope is 'Protect self'

Vanille is 'increase damage' Saboteur, Fang is 'prevent from fighting'

Your sentinels are Snow and Fang, characters very focused on protecting other characters. Commandos are your frontline fighters characters.

Battles can go very differently with different lineups, Vetala is goes from very difficult to super easy once Vanille is in the party because she has Poison, and you can just watch it slowly die behind its barrier.

I know you know all this, but it's something that comes up when playing again. Haven't done a complete playthrough in quite a while.
 

Kuja9001

Ooooh Salty!
AKA
roxas9001, Krat0s9001, DarkSlayerZero
Snow/Vanille/Hope. I need a sentinel and two strong medics to keep up with his damage, and a Saboteur/Synergist Combo. Also Tri-Disaster to stagger him quickly. Out of Fortisols and Aegisols. Where this selection falls is in pure damage output. Could possibly use Fang instead as Sentinel and raise the stagger gauge with Relentless Assault, but that didn't work as well when I tried it.

It's interesting how integrated the battle system is with the characters. It's very well thought out.

Sazh is ' Increase damage' Synergist, Hope is 'Protect self'

Vanille is 'increase damage' Saboteur, Fang is 'prevent from fighting'

Your sentinels are Snow and Fang, characters very focused on protecting other characters. Commandos are your frontline fighters characters.

Battles can go very differently with different lineups, Vetala is goes from very difficult to super easy once Vanille is in the party because she has Poison, and you can just watch it slowly die behind its barrier.

I know you know all this, but it's something that comes up when playing again. Haven't done a complete playthrough in quite a while.
I think I bodied him with the generic Fang>Light>Hope team.

You should be able to easily destroy him with good syns. Try a Fang>Sazh>Hope combo and see where that gets you.

A bravery+haste+enfire Fang & Sazh+deprotected+high staggered Dahaka should=a win
 

Blade

That Man
AKA
Darkside-Ky/Mimeblade
Not gonna lie, that is really doing it for me.
They should've taken a few cues from Bayonetta, lol

But I'm pretty happy with LR garbs, especially post-game DLC where
you can dress Lightning up like an evil deity based on Bhunivelze.
Hard Mode is great for making custom ultimate builds.
 

Roger

Novice DM
AKA
Minato
Snow/Vanille/Hope. I need a sentinel and two strong medics to keep up with his damage, and a Saboteur/Synergist Combo. Also Tri-Disaster to stagger him quickly. Out of Fortisols and Aegisols. Where this selection falls is in pure damage output. Could possibly use Fang instead as Sentinel and raise the stagger gauge with Relentless Assault, but that didn't work as well when I tried it.

It's interesting how integrated the battle system is with the characters. It's very well thought out.

Sazh is ' Increase damage' Synergist, Hope is 'Protect self'

Vanille is 'increase damage' Saboteur, Fang is 'prevent from fighting'

Your sentinels are Snow and Fang, characters very focused on protecting other characters. Commandos are your frontline fighters characters.

Battles can go very differently with different lineups, Vetala is goes from very difficult to super easy once Vanille is in the party because she has Poison, and you can just watch it slowly die behind its barrier.

I know you know all this, but it's something that comes up when playing again. Haven't done a complete playthrough in quite a while.
I think I bodied him with the generic Fang>Light>Hope team.

You should be able to easily destroy him with good syns. Try a Fang>Sazh>Hope combo and see where that gets you.

A bravery+haste+enfire Fang & Sazh+deprotected+high staggered Dahaka should=a win
Also have Sazh as your main and use his Blitz.
 

Blade

That Man
AKA
Darkside-Ky/Mimeblade
My impression of FFXIII was always that the themes and visuals were number one in that series. The songs Fighting Fate and Born Anew were essentially the most memorable for me as they summed up the conflict's ideas and struggles and piggy-backed one another.

I remember watching the trailer of Lightning fighting the soldiers in Cocoon and thinking "How the heck are they going to implement this in a Command Menu?"

But, as time went on, they actually did something similar with Dissidia Final Fantasy.

Of course, the setting was one-on-one at first, and you don't fight multiple enemies at once... but this actually evolved in the gameplay we now have with Dissidia NT.

Again, that doesn't feel as "good" as it should be, because you can EASILY get mobbed. And, assuming you had monsters instead of other enemy parties to fight, all the more reason why such a concept is difficult to implement unless you're given the right combat tools and allies to help you.

Dissidia NT also simplified the characters down to universal Brave attacks and the option to pick which HP attacks and EX skills to bring with you...

Now, if FFXIII was going to be an action-paced game, it would've made more sense to do what Dissidia NT has done instead of throwing players an overly convoluted Crystarium grid.

I also think that Crisis Core was also a good example of what a GOOD action RPG could be, because in the end you're going solo against multiple enemies, and managing your loadouts and which allies you want for assists would have better served you.

I know I'm gushing about Dissidia, but it really is a good concept and the closest they've gotten to achieving the goal of an "Advent Children" action-rpg game.

Take the Temple of Chaos (Omega) stage in Dissidia Duodecim:

You have this area with so much terrain to cross, walls and structures to hide behind, pillars that can help you dodge spells and what have you... and then somebody smashes you through the floor and the ceiling comes crumbling down on top of you changing the area completely!

If you're going to implement action in to a game, the game needs to flow quickly and seamlessly without stopping in illogical ways.

Take Final Fight: Streetwise as an odd example... you have this guy running around town talking to folks and punching people who are causing trouble in his neighborhood.

The game's a beatemup, but it has so many areas to explore, missions to tackle, people to talk to for exposition, and even items and goodies to grab as you progress. You even pay people to teach you new martial arts techniques!

At its core, Final Fantasy has struggled with the transition from Fighting to Questing to Fighting again (you can see this in the very first FF game, actually).

FFXIII could've taken a few cues from Final Fantasy VI in that you basically had party members separated in to groups, but they still had enough linearity to grow, make decisions on approaching areas, and even a level of exploration.

Terra tagging along with Locke for the first time introduced players to how the game should be played, but it also gave them places to explore and areas to examine up until they reached a certain area which changed the pace of the story.

You could still do a lot of things before coming to that "point" in the story, and the game didn't cap you for progress or limit you too much. Any mechanics you had were built-in for the most part and not strongly reminding you about Magicite or Accessories which are used later.

It gave you everything you needed to play around long enough until you decided to further the story and have Locke and Terra meet up with Locke's allies.

FFXIII had this idea of "characters on the run", but that was implemented early on in FFVII. Cloud was part of a terrorist organization called AVALANCHE on the run from the Turks, but that essentially meant they could do anything so long as Shinra corp didn't know about it (the Wall Market was a seedy part of Midgar that nailed this home for me). So there was plenty of non-linearity to that aspect of the game.

Part of what FFXIII suffers from is multiple-creators fighting over what the ultimate concept was supposed to be. Like the video said, you had one guy who HATED Non-linear worlds, and you had another guy who INSISTED on unique inflections for Vanille.

Japanese culture (as far as I know), is a very detail-oriented one. They nitpick and perfect-ionize EVERYTHING. That alone is part of the problem. There's no room for transition or conversion of ideas to other cultures. Japan lives in its own BUBBLE of concepts and they seldom ever think about what Europe or America think, except in derision mostly.

That is ALSO why the Japanese game industry has been floundering compared to the West in recent years. There is no open-mindedness, no willingness to compromise or adapt.

That has begun to change with individuals who rebel against the establishment, like with Hideo Kojima, but it still has a long ways to go.

With FFXV, you can notice a lot of ideas and more broad-minded concepts put together piecemeal and structured in ways that they realize (FINALLY!) that they were too strict in their own standards.

But, there's something they still need to do if they really want to perfect what will be the future of FF: I mean of course the FFVII Remake.

Make a game that not only uses different ideas, but uses those ideas in ways that link one idea to the next as seamlessly as possible. It shouldn't feel out-of-place, jarring, or non-sequitur.

I think what they've done with FFXV's character-switching is a step in that direction, but it still could go even further. Being able to take characters in their own routes and change the story from the perspective of who you're playing as.

As one developer said, making towns and cities to explore (and people) is hard work. But I think a certain amount of love and creativity could be applied to each and every place, without making it feel like a chore, but rather a canvass of expression. I think Lightning Returns hit this point home for me.

Each area in Lightning Returns had its own culture and "vibe", people had different beliefs and they did things at their own pace, regardless of anyone who showed up. I think that's a good thing.

Like the difference between Kalm Town, Midgar, and Rocket Town... different places, different rules to play by.

Ultimately, FFXIII was a learning experience that Square-Enix needed to refresh their memory that they aren't the utmost authority on RPG-making.

I think if they realize the throne isn't theirs to sit on all the time, address things like a challenger rather than a champion... things will improve even more than they have.
 
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T@ctic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Orah, Iju



daym what's up with the cloud roasts in 13? leave it alone already S/E :awesome:

almost done with the game-

sahz
became one of my faves when i learned of his son. poor guy. such a cute child as well ;_;

lightning
she's actually a really nice person after all. she had to keep that exterior cold and chipless because of her sister. which, again, i understand and can relate to.

vanille
she seems the weakest character. and not powerwise, but she seems prone to making more mistakes than the rest of the crew. her apparent obsession with keeping secrets is kinda annoying me lol. i see her as a character struggling to grow on her own even this far, and she needs others to gently probe her to a right road. i hope her character is fleshed out more in 2.

fang
i...don't believe there is a lot to her character. she is a great supporting character, but i get the feeling she was either a last added character or optional? idk. i'll wait for 2 for more opinions.

snow
he's possibly the most sensitive of all the crew. the whole time he was talking and interacting with his friends, assuring everyone about saving cocoon. but inside he's wondering if that's even the right thing to do, and tries contacting serah for more info. he's really kindhearted and special. serah is in good hands.


hope
man, he's amazing. he finds strength in himself and it comes out as a moral boost for the whole crew. he's growing so wonderfully. i believe he's the glue of the team. he brings a type of pure faith in the group.

side character: cid
i was "spoiled" he was a "bad guy" but i forgot anyway and suddenly remembered when he appeared again. and i don't believe he is a bad guy. he just wanted to escape the fate of what he was and tried helping the others...in his weird way.
also someone please explain why he lived only to be killed 2 seconds later?

can't wait to finish the game and see how things turn out!
 
AKA
The Engineer
Meeting people who could be enemies only for them be killed two seconds later by someone is unfortunately the norm for antagonists in FFXIII. This improves somewhat in FFXIII-2.

Fang and Vanille
The big thing to remember with both of them is that everything they knew about the world is dead and forgotten by the time they wake up. No matter what you think their relationship is, the only person they have left is each other. They really don't care about anyone else until the end of the game. Part of them traveling with the rest of the gang is that they have other people to care about in the end.

Fang, at the least, is very blunt and honest about herself with everyone. She really doesn't remember that she turned into Ragnarok and almost destroyed Cocoon.

Vanille is the one who remembers everything. Including that she and Fang are the equivalents of atomic bombs that went off, but didn't destroy everything like they were supposed to. Like they're still supposed to in fact. She actually feels really bad about it too, but doesn't know how to fix the situation. Mostly because nobody has ever gotten out of the situation she's in and Fang isn't going to let her fail at it.
 

Blade

That Man
AKA
Darkside-Ky/Mimeblade
Just some stuff you may come to appreciate in the future:

Sazh: In LR, there's a quest involving him that puts closure to a lot of what happens throughout XIII and XIII-2. You must see it.

Lightning: Just play LR... you won't regret it.

Vanille+Fang: They play important roles in XIII-2, but Fang in particular gets fleshed out more in LR.

Snow+Serah: You might need DLC for this in XIII-2 (and it's hard work), but at least things get further explained in LR.

Hope: He's an anchor point in XIII-2 and LR, so definitely keep an eye on him.

Cid: He makes a cameo in LR (I won't say how). But it's an important one.


Other Characters: Play XIII-2 and you'll understand why it's my favorite and play LR to understand why it's my second fave of this trilogy.
 
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