Final Fantasy XV (was Versus XIII)

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
So, I think that there's even more to all of that, too – especially when you start to look at who the other planned DLC chapters were about:

Aranea, Luna, & Noctis.

Aranea is from the Empire, but she joins in Noctis' cause. One of the most important things is that she's not one of the people from the prophesy, but she represents a VERY specific thematic idea which is that the Empire & Insomnia don't need to be at war with one another. That there's another answer that isn't mutual self-destruction, and she changes sides.

That starts to be EXTRA important when you look at our modern-day parallel of this conflict:

Bahamut, Shiva, Ifrit
Somnus, Aera, Ardyn
Noctis, Luna, Ravus

Luna & Ravus are both from Tenebrae – on the continent where Shiva ended up. Ravus' love of his sister and hatred of Noctis is this same cycle repeating itself. We even see that thematically in Kingsglaive, when Ravus attempts to take the power of the Ring, but is found to be unworthy, burning his left arm away.


After that, he's forced to replace it with a demonically powered Magitek one. Given Episode Ardyn, the connection is even stronger given that Ifrit's left half that gets burned and demonified by Ardyn before they delve into creating the Magitek soldiers – which directly connects him to the two of them as well.

This is where Episode Ignis & Kingsglaive really starts to drive the parallels in more, but then actually gets to twist them a little bit.


The crystal is hung up by chains the exact same way that Ardyn was, when he was held in Angelgard for two millennia as Adagium. It's clear that Ardyn's hatred of the Crystal comes from what he learned in Episode Ardyn about his own fate, and the really fucked up doubts that it casts upon everyone involved – Astrals and Mortals alike.

Ardyn is focused on destroying his brother & Somnus who wants to take his brother's position – both believing that their's is the path to the greater good, and they need the throne to have the power to save it the right way. This is why the Founder King wasn't the One True King. It's not until the Empire seeks to revive Solheim that this conflict gets reignited, and all of these prophetic repetitions come about again, and it's not until Noctis both takes AND gives up both the throne and the power of the Ring to save all of them. The issue with that is that Noct is fated to put his own life to end both of the sides of the Lucii that worked against each other... and that that inescapable tragic fate is at the core of the story.

This is why Ardyn having two choices for his final actions, but zero ability to create a different "Verse" is important in that DLC.

This is why it's important that we understand how it's still possible to fight against fate. Nyx wants to safeguard the future but isn't interested in the ring for power, and whether or not he's worthy isn't a factor to him which is what broke Ravus and Ardyn (and likely Ifrit). But THEN, there's Ignis who doesn't believe that the ends justify the means when it comes to Noctis' life, and steps in himself explicitly to break that cycle himself and pays the price willingly going in, because he ultimately rejects the entire premise at a deeply fundamental level.

Ignis is like a brother to Noctis, and is in the position to be jealous as an outsider. The potential for the Somnus/Ardyn dynamic is there, but he genuinely loves and looks after Noct like brother. Additionally, he supports Noctis no matter what it takes as the One True King. However, in the Alternate Ending, he's also opposed to how Noctis is going have to go about saving the world, so he steps in. What's important here is that while he's using the Ring, he isn't taking the POWER from Noctis to achieve that goal, he's taking the CONSEQUENCES from Noctis to achieve that end.

What that ends up doing indirectly is saving Ravus: While Ravus always stands against the Empire (as a revived Solheim of Ifrit's) and sides with Noctis (Bahamut), Ardyn just murders him after killing Luna & takes the dynamic back to the two sides of the Lucii against each other. When Ignis removes himself, Ravus steps in to fill his place to assist the Chocobros. There's an opposition and sympathetic sacrifice that takes place that also ultimately keeps Ravus safe, allowing him to remain around until the very end for Noctis and hold on to Regis blade, while Ignis is free to make unified plans for moving against Ardyn.



This is where the original history of the gods and the Cosmogeny starts to get really interesting:

Ifrit falls, Shiva retreats, Bahamut disappears, Titan goes silent, Ramuh flees, and Leviathan goes to sleep.

  • Ifrit is interred on Ravatogh – matching Ardyn & Ravus' fates on Angelgard and Zegnautus Keep respectively.
  • Shiva retreats – matching Aera & Luna removing themselves from their loved ones.
  • Bahamut disappears and in the slide, he's shown with the Crystal. He seems to be the one connected to the Crystal's extradimensional space, and also the Ring with power of Blades being granted to the Lucii via the Crystal. – Additionally, this would match Noctis' own long disappearance within the Crystal
So, where does that leave the other three in all of this?
  • Titan goes silent and bears a massive burden on his own. Conceivably you could draw parallels between Titan, Gilgamesh, & Gladio, since they all act as the guards. It's after failing to Ravus that Gladio goes off on his own quest, meeting Gilgamesh who we know from the anime prologue served as the King's Shield to Somnus. Whether there's more to it than that connection isn't clear.
  • Ramuh hangs out on Angelgard until Luna goes there to forge a covenant with him for Noctis. That would suggest that there's a strong likelihood that Ramuh was a key factor of Luna's DLC storyline, as Angelgard and the judgement of sinners (something that Aera mentions directly to Ardyn) is centrally important to the themes that've been raised. Ramuh not being on Angelgard also connects to Comrades' storyline. He seems to take up Bahamut's role during the Dragonian's absence, which seems to draw some strong parallels between whatever Ramuh was doing, and the role that Ignis takes in Noctis' absence.
  • Leviathan is off in a distant land and she's also definitively female. She's also seemingly less directly connected to the other Astrals in that she's the only non-human amongst them, and she's retreated off and following her own interests below Altissia – which is annexed by the Empire but politically autonomous. That pretty clearly outlines her mortal parallel as being Aranea. She's a mercenary with the Empire, so she's part of them but not, you meet her as an enemy, but then she joins you basically on her own terms.
So, that pretty clearly outlines the specific choices around our team and the parallels to the Cosmogeny. That leaves a gap with Prompto – but Prompto actually serves to make the larger connection between the Demons, Magitek soldiers, Empire, and all of the interconnected thematic elements about an alternate future itself. He's literally an Imperial, but not only that, he's a clone of Verstael – the person who hauled out Ardyn from Angelgard, and basically kicked EVERYTHING into motion. Prompto's thematic role is to show that just following the set path of a new scenario that's being faced with individuals who are all just fated copies of what came before isn't the correct option. Prompto's story is essentially THE catalyst for the idea that even when you're being duplicated, that you can change something.

Ultimately, this all comes down to Bahamut though, since he's the one who's locked people in to their roles. If I had to guess what it was going for, it's that it's learned that using the Ring of the Lucii to save people allows them to alter fate itself beyond the power offered by the gods, but at the cost of ones own life. Given that Ardyn only ever wanted to heal people and that's what his gift was, I think that the path would be that Noctis actually gets through to Ardyn. Ardyn takes the ring after it's absorbed the Astrals, and rather than using it for revenge, he remembers the experience of Aera's death, and uses the stronger-than-the-gods power of the fully charged Ring, and the fact that he's an immortal of royal blood also referred to in his and Ignis' DLC as, "The Chosen" and uses that power. He sacrifices his immortality to destroy the Starscourge, and sacrifices his own life, so that he can finally rest in peace with Area (like he is in the menu screen of his DLC), and that the life he took gets returned, so that Luna and Noctis get FINALLY to be together, and we get our happily ever after ending that they teased with the image:


So, loosely speaking, I think that those are the thematic elements that FFXV's story was going for with all of its "The Dawn of the Future" DLC, and why it chose the characters it chose, and why it was gonna release it all back-to-back-to-back-to-back. So, there's some classic "X's tl;dr as fuck theorycrafting" which can probably serve as headcanon for everyone that also touches on some of the tiny alterations made during the patches to the original game as well.

Now it's just waiting around to see if literally any of that is even remotely hinted at in the novella, or if this just gets to live as "preferred AU headcanon" instead. :awesomonster:



(Oh, this is also a very long explanation about how a game like XV that is basically just a remixed Final Fantasy Greatest Hits album, can still be something unique and special all of its own when it's mostly made out of copies of things that we've been given time and again by the series)




X:neo:
 

Gary Caelum

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Gary Caelum
So, going by what we all know of the totality of the plot and all the DLC we've gotten, I feel the best order to play the DLCs are...

Upon completion of the game, one should play Episode Ardyn.

And upon beating THAT episode, then one should play Episode Ignis.

I always felt that as long as you'd already played the game before, Ep Ignis works perfectly at its correct chronological point in the story. End of Chapter 9.

It's not only necessary to see the Ravus stuff at that point for the rest of the game to make sense, but I also felt like it was an important way of correcting the focus of the game, away from Luna's disappointing role, and back onto the bros.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Even though his Episode takes place in the middle of the game, it was still released last because thematically it makes more sense to understand all of that information after you've gotten through the game, and you've had more time to internalize Ignis' blindness without any context – the same way that Noctis has to. (Not to mention that it straight out spoils things like the time-skip and format for the end of the game though, depending on the path that you take).

That being said, I'd make the argument for placing Episode Ardyn between Chapter 13 and Chapter 14. At that point, Noctis has been having visions in the Crystal, and even though it spoils a tiny piece of Ardyn on the throne in Insomnia and facing the Bros, I think that the weight that it adds to Noctis' burden and waking up in the prison on Angelgard, as well as and everything about the scenario of who you're about to go up against makes that worth it – especially because of all of the thematic parallels between the big fights that I mentioned in my previous posts, and getting a better sense of what's up with Ifrit, and the whole history of the conflict that you're sacrificing your life to end.

I have to wholly agree with Mako that the best place for Episode Ignis is as the last piece of DLC (since the other 3 are no longer getting made). Especially given the way that the choice option in Episode Ignis is SO HEAVILY connected to the story and choice option in Episode Ardyn, it's even better now as an end piece than it was before.



X :neo:
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
....Just when I think I can't be outraged or awed anymore by this episode, I get proven wrong. :mon:

So in my quest to give Ardyn his final, most awesome hat...

The crown he so rightly deserved FYI, I decided I'd go ahead and use it's abilities to beat the game again and see the other ending that opens up if you choose to "submit."

However, on a whim, I simply just couldn't bring myself to choose that option and instead I chose to torture myself and watch the "resist" ending once more.

...But this time, I was rocking out with the volume up high and as the cutscene played, I noticed something.

Aera wasn't the only one speaking to Ardyn as she stabbed him.

To my shock, I heard Bahamut's voice very faintly speaking intandem with Aera's.

And then I realized...

That wasn't Aera at all.

Aera is an illusion. That Aera that Ardyn was being tortured by was a manifestation of Bahamut's own power. He made her appear, just like he made the blades that impaled him, and she vanishes right when Bahamut vanishes. She manifests with the same white, crystal-like energy as the blades!

That was all a fucking illusion to make Ardyn despair and go mad with grief so he would submit to his fate anyways.

Bahamut... Did something far worst to Ardyn. He made Ardyn believe his love and trust in Aera was a lie. He made Ardyn think he was all alone and isolated, and all he knew and loved was a lie. THAT was how he ensured Ardyn accepted his fate. He twisted his mind with that illusion.

My God. What a dick. Kudos to the game hiding such an important plot twist so well.

I'm just floored at the cruelty of it. There's looking at the macro versus the micro, and working towards "the greater good" but... There's a limit to how far one can excuse one's choices. There's simply no justice or virtue in making a plan this cruel to ensure Eos' survival. Cruel works bear cruel fruit, and as Ardyn said in the final fight (well, in the Pocket Edition at least)

Even for the dawn to break now, it will only bring the horrors to light. The truth only offers despair!

He's... Really not wrong about that at all. What would all of Noctis's friends and the people of Insomnia think if they knew the Bahamut literally orchestrated this outcome? What if Bahamut decided to fix another problem in the future?
 

Gary Caelum

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Gary Caelum
Even though his Episode takes place in the middle of the game, it was still released last because thematically it makes more sense to understand all of that information after you've gotten through the game, and you've had more time to internalize Ignis' blindness without any context – the same way that Noctis has to. (Not to mention that it straight out spoils things like the time-skip and format for the end of the game though, depending on the path that you take).

Except Noctis doesn't actually find out how he lost his sight at all, as far as we know. That's why it feels out of place to me. If they'd have a scene where Ignis explains how he lost his eyesight, then OK, I'd say that's a good point for the episode. But without that, I feel like the correct story placement is the chronological one.

Another big factor for me is just the pacing of the story. Something I really hated about the game at launch was how it's a snails pace for the first half of the game, then you have the massive story dump in the last quarter. It felt like you were getting some kind of narrative whiplash, and it made it feel just like 2 different games that had been fused together. So I'm gonna avoid putting anything else into that final quarter if I can help it.

I know some people don't seem to care about that sort of thing at all. But I find it to be a major issue. Part of the reason I actually preferred Luna DLC over Ardyn DLC is simply the fact that it probably would've taken place in the first half of the game, whereas Ardyn's was obviously going to fit at the end, after his reveal.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Wait, what?

The whole point of not revealing how Ignis is blinded chronologically is because Noctis doesn't know how it happened. Additionally, the sacrifice that causes his blindness is one of the biggest factors in how that also leads to the alternate ending, and getting it as it happens only serves to split the focus of the main story before its conclusion.

While the game's pacing is very different, that's also kind of the point of the story as well. Getting to just spend time without worrying about what's happening with the Chocobros in the earlier parts of the game before the story literally gets railroaded off towards the end is what makes the experience meaningful, because it's all about getting to know the bros and building the sense of camaraderie with them over time in the way that you want to – knowing that there's something big coming, and that you have to prepare for it, but in this case the preparation is making memories with each other, knowing that you won't all be together eventually.

While it's not wrong to play Episode Ignis chronologically, I think that it's significantly telling that the developers intentionally released it as the last part of the DLC, since it was meant to be the last piece of the story given to the fans before The Dawn of the Future stuff was put in place, specifically because of how those elements tie together, and move the story itself into a different path altogether that relies on knowing the ending events of the game, and acting upon them only once they're a known thing by the player.




X :neo:
 

Gary Caelum

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Gary Caelum
Yes but my point was that Noctis doesn't find out at all, as far as we know. So that can't be used as a factor supporting either position.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Right, but that's only half of the two-fold reason though:

1) Noctis doesn't know about it, so for the game that's told essentially from his PoV there isn't any reason that it ought to be chronological, since it's all supplemental. Since there's no support there for making it chronological for story reasons since the information doesn't factor into anything about Noctis' journey, there aren't any advantages to adding it in there over elsewhere from that perspective. Chronological order just becomes the defacto position where you'd need a reason to move it.

2) Since it's completely supplementary content, designed explicitly for the player to be aware of and not the game's characters – it's most important to look at how it's been designed for the player to experience. In Gladio & Prompto's DLCs, there's no argument for moving their placement away from the natural chronological order – as the information that the player already has & gets from the DLC episodes doesn't change with their chronological placement from that point in the game forward. Given that Episode Ignis explicitly relies on information that you as the player do not have at its chronological point in the game, that's an argument against it being placed chronologically.


tl;dr – If Noctis remains unaware of all of the information in the DLCs, the best place to add them in is just where they fit in naturally in the chronological point in the game since that is just the defacto location that's earliest and most logical & you'd need a reason to move them elsewhere. However, if the DLC requires the player to be aware of the events beyond when the DLC takes place chronologically, that's an argument for explicitly avoiding dropping them in chronologically since it would mess with the information that the player is intended to be aware of.





X :neo:
 

Gary Caelum

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Gary Caelum
I think the advantage of including it at Chapter 9 (your #1 point), is for the explanation it gives for Ravus' change of behaviour. In the original game, his character made almost no sense. That's something it's helpful to see in chronological order.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Again though, the source of Ravus' change in behaviour isn't anything that Noctis ever learns about, (Gladio & Ignis see plenty of Ravus' changes in Chapter 13.2). So that's just another piece of information in the exact same position as the source of Ignis' blindness – something, "that can't be used as a factor supporting either position" as you just mentioned.



X :neo:
 

Gary Caelum

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Gary Caelum
Yes, I wasn't taking Noctis' state of knowledge as the main guide here.I was only responding to that point before because I think it's one of several factors, but not necessarily decisive.

Like for example, if they added a scene in Chapter 14 where Prompto and Gladio both explain to Noctis what happened to them during their DLC chapters, that would mean you should play both of those DLC at that point, because that would be what fits with Noctis' state of knowledge. Whereas I wouldn't agree to that. I think those 2 DLC definitely fit well at the correct chronological points in the story, and I don't care whether Noctis knows about them either way.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
There is so much to love about "Episode Ardyn" that I hate to even delve into anything that isn't positive. You guys have already hit on a lot of the positive, though, so I don't feel so bad. =P

I'll get to that in a moment. First, I need to add a couple of follow-up observations to some of Mako's.
----

....Just when I think I can't be outraged or awed anymore by this episode, I get proven wrong. :mon:

So in my quest to give Ardyn his final, most awesome hat...

The crown he so rightly deserved FYI, I decided I'd go ahead and use it's abilities to beat the game again and see the other ending that opens up if you choose to "submit."

However, on a whim, I simply just couldn't bring myself to choose that option and instead I chose to torture myself and watch the "resist" ending once more.

...But this time, I was rocking out with the volume up high and as the cutscene played, I noticed something.

Aera wasn't the only one speaking to Ardyn as she stabbed him.

To my shock, I heard Bahamut's voice very faintly speaking intandem with Aera's.

And then I realized...

That wasn't Aera at all.

Aera is an illusion. That Aera that Ardyn was being tortured by was a manifestation of Bahamut's own power. He made her appear, just like he made the blades that impaled him, and she vanishes right when Bahamut vanishes. She manifests with the same white, crystal-like energy as the blades!

That was all a fucking illusion to make Ardyn despair and go mad with grief so he would submit to his fate anyways.

Bahamut... Did something far worst to Ardyn. He made Ardyn believe his love and trust in Aera was a lie. He made Ardyn think he was all alone and isolated, and all he knew and loved was a lie. THAT was how he ensured Ardyn accepted his fate. He twisted his mind with that illusion.

My God. What a dick. Kudos to the game hiding such an important plot twist so well.

I'm just floored at the cruelty of it. There's looking at the macro versus the micro, and working towards "the greater good" but... There's a limit to how far one can excuse one's choices. There's simply no justice or virtue in making a plan this cruel to ensure Eos' survival.
It's even worse than that.

While I caught that "Aera" wasn't Aera the first time (good job catching that, by the way; seems most players haven't), I only just realized this morning that the horrible hallucination Ardyn experiences with Somnus, Aera and the dagger (right after he turns Ifrit) was Bahamut's doing as well -- which likely means that the hallucination of Somnus a few minutes earlier was as well.

At first I thought that some or all of this could be anything from the scourge working on Ardyn's mind to turn him toward aggression or his own hurt and anger conjuring traumatic visions due to the extensive trauma he's been experiencing for two thousand years. But no, it's always Bahamut.

I say this because of the dagger in that scene. It's real. It remains when the hallucination ends, and is the very dagger Ardyn will one day stab Lunafreya with.

Who uses at least one other cruel illusion involving Aera to provoke Ardyn's animosity? And who is "the blade god" who could have conjured such a dagger with actual physical substance in what had ostensibly been just a hallucination?

Mako said:
What if Bahamut decided to fix another problem in the future?

Hopefully my understanding of the ending (i.e. that the gods passed from the world along with the Lucii) is correct. Eos most definitely doesn't need any more of their shenanigans.
----

As a continuity and lore junkie, my greatest fear whenever new material gets added to something beloved -- even before "What if it's just written badly?" -- is the question of whether existing continuity will be respected.

I grew up on Marvel comics as my first love, so you would think I'd be impervious to such concerns, but alas, that desire for cohesive worldbuilding and respecting what came before is too powerful, no matter how many sequels and cases of serialized storytelling may break my heart (or the walls of stable reality).

As a diehard Final Fantasy fan for more than two decades, I feel I have good cause to be concerned where my beloved JRPG series is concerned -- as I'm sure many of my fellow FF fans can understand. In the lead-up to each new DLC installment for my especially beloved FFXV, there has been a minor sense of trepidation to go along with the overwhelming excitement.

Though there have seemingly been a couple of continuity hiccups along the way, it's been nothing that couldn't be rather easily smoothed over with a bit of fanwank.

Well, this past week the other shoe dropped.

To start us off, "Episode Ardyn" raises significant questions about the timeline of events concerning Ifrit and Shiva.

For example, the lore flashbacks in Chapter 12 of the main game establish that Shiva's original, titan-sized body was killed while she was rushing off to help Ifrit, sensing his distress at being turned into a daemon -- a development for him that we witness during "Episode Ardyn."

However, the reference to this event in Chapter 12 shows it happening at the Rock of Ravatogh, not an imperial research facility on the Niflheim continent.

Furthermore, both the FFXV Ultimania Scenario Side and Verstael's research logs from "Episode Prompto" tell us that Shiva was killed 11 years before FFXV's Chapter 1, not 34 years or more. Verstael hadn't even developed the magitek infantry that brought her down yet, as it was calculations provided by Ardyn's "borrowed" memories that made their development possible.

Even if we allow for the possibility that Ifrit being killed by Bahamut at the end of "Episode Ardyn" left him able to reconstitute himself scourge-free back at Ravatogh, only for Ardyn to show up years later to infect him again, it seems to make little sense for Shiva to have tried going to help then -- on another continent altogether -- but not the first time Ifrit was being turned. When this happened to him in "Episode Ardyn," he was inside an imperial facility a short distance from the Ghorovas Rift where Shiva was hibernating!

Equally disconcerting, perhaps more so for this fan, is an interview with the main developers of "Episode Ardyn" published this week by Famitsu. In the following exchange, scenario director Toru Osanai delivered quite the perplexing and frustrating comment:

---
――では、アーデンが名乗っていたイズニアという姓はどこからきたのでしょうか? 本編では誰かの姓であることを匂わすセリフもありましたが。

小山内 今回、そのことも触れようと思ったのですが、きちんと説明しようとすると軸がブレたりする関係で入れませんでした。誰の姓であるか、アーデンはあまり覚えていません。シガイ化でいろいろな人の記憶を吸収することで、膨大な知識を蓄えている一方、それゆえに錯乱していき、自身にまつわることも忘れています。

――"So where did Ardyn's surname, Izunia, come from? There was a line in the main game that suggested it was someone's surname."

Osanai: "I actually thought about touching on that this time, but when I tried explaining it properly it didn't fit without deviating from the narrative focus. Ardyn doesn't remember much about who the surname belongs to. He absorbs the memories of the people he turns into daemons, continuously accumulating a vast amount of knowledge, so that's confusing and he's also forgotten things about himself."
---

the main game in Japanese, Talcott says a record of the name "Ardyn Izunia" was what he and Ignis discovered in the tombs during the ten years they were waiting for Noct:

- かなり昔の資料に 同じ名前があったんです アーデン・イズニアって
- "A very old document had that same name. It said Ardyn Izunia."

This is also the case in the German localization:
- Wir sind in alten Schriften auf einen vertrauten Namen gestoßen: Ardyn Izunia.
- "We found a familiar name in the ancient documents: Ardyn Izunia."

And in the French:
- Finalement, on a trouvé quelque chose de bizarre. Un homme du même nom était mentionné dans un document très ancien. « Ardyn Izunia », pareil.
- "Finally, we found something strange: a man with the same name was mentioned in a very ancient document. 'Ardyn Izunia,' the same."

The English localization oddly enough does not bother mentioning Ardyn's last name here.

Refreshing my memory of other languages' take on the lines from Ardyn's big reveal in Chapter 13 is equally interesting.

Here's the Japanese:
- 俺の名前さ あれ本名だけど 正式名じゃなかったんだよね アーデン・ルシス・チェラム 正式名
- "About my name... That is my real name, but it isn't my formal name. Ardyn Lucis Caelum is my formal name."

German:
- Ich heiße tatsächlich Ardyn. Allerdings nur in Kurzform. Den Nachnamen habe ich ausgelassen. Ardyn Lucis Caelum - mein Name! Hm… Von wem war noch mal der Name Izunia?
- "My name is Ardyn. Only in short form, however. I omitted the last name. Ardyn Lucis Caelum -- my name! Hm... Who else had the name Izunia?"

And French:
- Quand je t’ai donné mon nom, je ne t’ai pas menti, mais je n’ai pas précisé mon nom officiel. Ardyn Lucis Caelum. Comme le tien. Mais… Izunia est resté mon nom de famille.
- "When I gave you my name, I did not lie to you, but I did not specify my official name. Ardyn Lucis Caelum. Like yours. But... Izunia remained my family name."

There's also the German take on Ardyn's entry in the Datalog under the Dossiers to consider:
- Als Erstgeborener der Familie Izunia, die einst für ihre besonderen Fähigkeiten zur Linie der Lucis Caelum erwählt wurde, hätte er der erste Kônig zum Schutze des Kristalls werden sollen.
- "As the firstborn of the Izunia family, chosen for their special skills to become the Lucis Caelum lineage, he should have become the first king to protect the Crystal."

The German and French localizations confidently strode ahead with this understanding about Ardyn's original surname, as they went this route with his revelatory line to Ignis in the Verse 2 version of events from "Episode Ignis". The English localization of course did not, nor did the Japanese for that matter -- but I think we have to look at them.

German:
- Vollständig... lautet mein Name: Ardyn Lucis Caelum Izunia!
- "In complete... my name is: Ardyn Lucis Caelum Izunia!"

French:
- Mon véritable nom… Je te le donne en entier : Ardyn « Lucis Caelum » Izunia.
- "My real name ... I give it to you in full: Ardyn 'Lucis Caelum' Izunia."

So, in light of some versions getting things correct that hadn't yet been verified beyond doubt otherwise (e.g. the English, German and Portuguese localizations with the "Episode Gladiolus" loading screen claiming Ifrit's body was at the Rock of Ravatogh; or the English bestiary's entry on Ifrit claiming he gave mankind the gift of fire; or the German localization's bestiary entry on Shiva claiming she and Ifrit had been lovers), I'm still inclined to say the Izunia name really was meant to be Ardyn and Somnus's family name, and was included in the lore Bible distributed to the various localization teams way back when.

Especially since even the Japanese version has Ardyn call it his "real name," contrasting it with his "formal name." And let's definitely not forget that the Japanese version also has Talcott say that the complete "Ardyn Izunia" name was mentioned in the document from the royal tombs.

Truth be told, though, even the silly explanation about the Izunia name from the scenario director doesn't necessarily preclude the possibility that it was Ardyn’s original family name. He only says that Ardyn's own identity became so muddled from absorbing memories that he has forgotten things about himself.

Of course, to make that explanation work, one has to accept the notion that Ardyn remembers enough about his own identity to not only have reasons to hate the royal family but to accurately remember what those reasons (from 2000 years ago) are ... yet still not be able to remember the family's original name.

But whatever, though. Frankly, given how grounded in himself and his desire for revenge that Ardyn seems to be all the time, it's hard to even consider the notion to begin with that he's forgotten anything of significance about himself. I don't feel the development team successfully sold that idea here at all if that is what they were going for.

Maybe that's what Osanai was going for, but it doesn't seem to have transferred to what we see depicted on the screen.

Now, I could accept that his turn to the maniacal was a result of absorbing Ifrit's memories and, thus, also the god's enmity for humanity at large. That rather seems to fit, truth be told, seeing as we get Ardyn cackling like the Joker and embracing his power to turn people into daemons the moment after daemonifying Ifrit and experiencing that traumatic vision of Aera and Somnus.

The allowance for that possibility aside, I'm increasingly losing confidence that Osanai thoroughly knew FFXV's established lore.

This is the same developer who said in the "Episode Ardyn Prologue" Q&A "We actually do not have a detailed back story as to how the first Oracle came about" when asked "How did Aera become an Oracle herself?" -- despite it long ago being mentioned in at least two places (the FFXV Scenario Side Ultimania, as well as the in-game Cosmogony entry on the Oracle) that Bahamut gave the first Oracle both the trident and her powers.

And in this very same Famitsu interview, "Episode Ardyn" director Takeshi Terada says that Osanai told him シナリオ的には大丈夫 ("it's fine on the scenario side") to bring Ifrit in.

On another matter of scenario (in)consistency, let us also not forget the confusing comment from Aera in the anime prologue when she tells Somnus "The Crystal has no will of its own." This is patently false, as the in-game lore tutorial at the very beginning of the game tells us "The Crystal is the divine cornerstone of the Kingdom of Lucis. The Stone has a will of its own, and channels its sacred power through the Ring of the Lucii to the monarch who bears it." In addition to the multiple references we have otherwise about the Crystal itself choosing Noctis.

I'm less concerned by the apparent discrepancy between Ramuh resting at Angelgard after the war of the gods (per his bestiary entry in the main game and his profile in "Comrades") versus resting at Fociaugh Hollow. I don't know that the two have to be mutually exclusive, and since we know Bahamut wanted Ardyn released from his prison anyway, it's not odd that Ramuh wouldn't have interfered with Verstael's operation even if he was there.

In fact, Verstael's records even say "The raging winds and stormy seas may have cast all others away, but the waves parted for me that day and led the way." The gods allowed Verstael to set foot on Angelgard and take Ardyn, so that's easily explained. What we have to contend with otherwise is less so.
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These issues don't derail "Episode Ardyn" from still being stellar, but they were avoidable. It's a shame to see these mistakes many fans would have avoided made by the developers themselves.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I noticed the inconsistencies about
Shiva as well and kinda scratched my head and went "...Huh? Wait that can't..."

They totally got confused with their own timeline.

As for the Izunia name, it's hilarious how apparently not even the creators themselves remember where the name came from, mirroring the new explanation for what the name is supposed to mean or whatever. :mon:

It seems there's a weird... lack of consistency regarding the writing, in terms of details regarding the lore. I hope it won't be a big deal for what comes next in the novel.

But over all, I'm optimistic and hopeful to see what happens. I know there's zero hope the sales or reviews of Ardyn will make S-E change there mind but I'm hoping it's successful enough for them to realize that between this and all the cumulative sales of XV there's still a lot of love for XV's world and maybe we'll get something in the distant future for it.

It's funny how far this journey for the game has gone. From VS XIII to this and now... We wait for a novelization. Like, this entire thing has been the wildest ride in terms of a Final Fantasy's development.

It's almost as cursed and fated for tribulation as the line of Lucis. :mon:

Edit: I almost forgot to ask.

What makes you think Bahamut was the one to give Ardyn those hallucinations? I thought that could be possible but aside from it following his fate and the dagger, did anything else draw you to that conclusion?

I think it's pretty likely I was just curious.
 
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The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Edit: I almost forgot to ask.

What makes you think Bahamut was the one to give Ardyn those hallucinations? I thought that could be possible but aside from it following his fate and the dagger, did anything else draw you to that conclusion?

I think it's pretty likely I was just curious.
Just that the dagger was real, Bahamut is the blade god, and the vision suited Bahamut's purposes in much the same way as the fake Aera does in the Defy Ending. The dagger is the main component for me, though. The screen lingers on it at the end of the scene, so we're supposed to take notice of it. It means something.
 

Lulcielid

Eyes of the Lord
AKA
Lulcy
Prasert "Sun" Prasertvithyakarn (FFXV party AI and Prompto's camera AI lead designer) had a presentation at GDC with his topic being:

"Can You Make a Good Game Without Good Play Mechanics?"
Overview said:
Game designers tend to focus too much on good game mechanics (How to provide the challenges? How to provide meaningfulchoices? etc.). Historically, this is absolutely correct, when the "value" that a game provides to users was limited to fun gameplay achieved only through good mechanics. But things have changed. Now there are good games without meaningful choices or strategic approaches, and whether you call them games or not, it's a game designer's job to design them anyway! That's why you should learn about them.This session is not about making good narrative/graphics. It's about the fact that there are verbs other than "play" that users can do with a game. To maximize those experiences, a good design with a broader vision than just "good game mechanics" is necessary. Drawing from examples from 'FINAL FANTASY XV', speaker Prasert "Sun" Prasertvithyakarn will share his vision and techniques.
https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1026395/Can-You-Make-a-Good
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
... Im really curious as to what kind of design concepts he's talking about because on the surface that sounds ridiculous as hell.

Edit: Ahhh.. I actually read it. And it's really spot on. I have to give kudos to this designer. Theres more than just "playing." Theres "creating", "exploring", "communicating", "broadcasting", "role-playing", and "fan-creating." Embracing these aspects of enjoyment make games better too. And that's true.. I really liked the "traps" to avoid with each of these aspects too.

I have to say I'm glad a S-E developer is aware of this. That's actually kinda heartening.
 
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Gary Caelum

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Gary Caelum
Just finished the Altissia part and Episode Ignis on my final playthrough. I love being able to sail the boat around the ocean, although they really should've added more to do. Just a few islands to explore would've been nice and easy for them to do.

Being able to control the boat also reveals a bit of a flaw in the worldbuilding. Altissia has a huge population with hundreds of boats, yet you never see anyone else leaving or entering the city by sea. That would've been a nice touch, just like all the cars on the road in Lucis. Oh well, it's hardly top of the list for things they didn't get round to.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Quite proud of this:

qYpQjPM.jpg

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And in other news:

"Final Fantasy 15's Regalia car is now in FF14, and everything is chaos"
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
@X-SOLDIER
Time is definitely a factor, but not even the most difficult to work with in this fight. So long as you finish it in less than five minutes you get an A+ on that metric.

Here's my recording from yesterday evening when I achieved both the A and A+ rankings (score tally for A is at 48:35; A+ is at 1:11:35)



Max Combo needs to be above 200 for an A on that metric, and above 300 for an A+. It isn't too difficult to get either right at the beginning of the battle, but you won't be able to make use of the reaction commands if going for the 300, as that causes too much damage too quickly, triggering the cutscene where the other Bros show up and breaking your combo.

For the sake of moving the battle along without giving Noct more openings than you have to, I'd say it's better to just get the A and aim to do well on the rest of the rubric. I'd also say it's foolish not to at least get the 200-hit combo in, as you would need an A+ in everything else to take home an overall A+ if you only got a B for your Max Combo -- and you simply can't count on an A+ for the Damage Received requirement.

Damage Received is the hardest metric to control for. I'm not entirely sure where the threshold between A and A+ is on this, but I've never gotten higher than an A for my damage sustained in this battle.

The final metric, Undying States, is pretty straightforward in achieving an A+: just don't go into this state at all. If you do, let the Bros kill you and restart.

While it might seem like a useful strategy to gain access to the powerful physical attacks of the Undying state, you're probably going to blow both your Time and Damaged Received parameters in getting there. That's in addition to having already lost out on the A+ for this parameter. The Undying state simply adds too much time with its lengthy transformation sequence (both into and out of this state), Ardyn moves too slowly while in Undying, and you're going to be taking constant additional damage while in this form.

Just don't even go there.

The main factor for avoiding too much damage, as well as the Undying state, is Noctis's Armiger Chain. Thankfully, you know when it's soon to be coming, as it's preceded by Ardyn saying "Behold, O King" or "You should all thank me," both of which are triggered when Noct's HP falls to certain amounts.

Still, knowing it's coming doesn't make it easy to avoid. If you're right next to Noctis when he activates it, you're probably screwed. If you put some distance between you beforehand, you can shadowstep your way around and stay one step ahead of most of the incoming attacks -- or you can activate your own equivalent attack, Royal Retribution, and take advantage of the invincibility frames.

It's hard to pull this rank off, even knowing precisely what needs to happen at each stage of the battle. It's unfortunate, but luck will play a factor as well.
 
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