Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

[ForceStealer]

In the original Hojo didn't even remember who/what Cloud was until Costa del Sol, right?

 

[Eerie]

I missed Hojo in Costa del Sol in my playthrough, so in my playthrough he actually only realised it in the Northern Crater.

Cloud is having flashes so he can't hear it. The english translation makes clearer what it is cloud isn't hearing but regardless, Tifa doesn't have Jenova interference. Cloud asserts that what ultimately matters is what Tifa believes, not what he himself believes. Deciding Hojo dropping truth bombs to the party is okay as long as Cloud can't hear it runs counter that idea I feel.

What it stops is actually Cloud wondering about who he is and asking Tifa to confirm his own existence, though. Because if Cloud had heard Hojo, he wouldn't have believed him and would have turned to Tifa, IMHO - but it's way too early for that. But it's a "what if" scenario, so it's quite useless to talk about it. What we see afterwards is Tifa being even more worried about Cloud - when he hallucinates before losing consciousness - asking Aerith about it and finally saving him the way she does - staying behind in case Cloud needs help. It's not only doubts that Tifa has regarding Cloud and his story, it's also a lot of worry for him, and ultimately she choses to stay by his side and believe in him. Even if things are weird, surely there will come a time where she can patch everything together - which she will ultimately do. At that moment, she doesn't have the luxury to think about it, and her worries for Cloud take precedence over her doubts and whatever Hojo says.

In fine, that doesn't change anything for Cloud and Tifa and the way their story is intertwined. Remake is trying to expand on Tifa's worries, on Cloud's problems. This iconic sentence from Cloud, where he says that only Tifa's attitude matters, will still be there, and us as the players will have *seen* it first hand in Remake - he will only be voicing what we have been watching so it won't come off from nowhere this time.

This also reminds me, but I remember watching a let's play! from a really perceptive player who never played the OG or even heard about the biggest spoiler out there for Aerith, and she said something that quite caught my attention: that everything in the game goes very fast, you don't have the time to sit on the numerous information that is given to you, you just breathe through it. And I feel that's also exactly what is happening with the characters, they don't really have time to sit on everything that they learn. So they go on and on because they can only go forward.

 

[Torrie]

They did earlier drafts of this script where the sequence was different, they choose what they went with. That's a decision covered in the ultimania not an accidental mistake the english localization made.

Unbelievable, they nearly went that far to include the living legacy reference that early. Just... wow. But honestly, I'm glad they didn't.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

In the original Hojo didn't even remember who/what Cloud was until Costa del Sol, right?

He doesn't mention it until then, but he probably noticed sooner.

 

[LNK]

A lot of players were already aware of this scene, and so this is why the devs tell absolutely every new fan to play the OG and the rest of the Compilation

Were they telling new fans to play those before playing remake though?

 

[Eerie]

No, but that didn't matter since the Lifestream scene - and Aerith's death, notably - is place way further than Midgar. Once Remake gained tons of new fans, suddenly we heard them telling them to go play and enjoy the OG, that we'd have a phone game encompassing all the Compilation and more, ACC getting re-released. That's because everything is important and every nod to the Compilation is better appreciated if we know and understand them. It's also because it allows them to lead us in different ways than in the OG.

 

[Tashasaurous]

I've been meaning to say this new theory, but I keep forgetting. Ever wondered why the game is actually called Remake with new story content? I think it's because, due to the

Spoiler

introduction of the Whispers and how we saw a new alternate-reality cutscene where Zack lives, the remake(s) of the original game is actually not like any other remakes of Final Fantasy, but the title may also actually mean remaking history of the FFVII universe as a whole.

 

[Tetsujin]

I'm actually stoked to go to the Happy Turtle when we get to Wutai eventually.

All those jingles worked on me, A++ marketing

 

[looneymoon]

I hope happy turtle owner comes back :')

 

[Makoeyes987]

Just some predictions for the Remake I was thinking about for the future. I want to be able to point these if they end up coming true.

Given the plot moving away from Midgar now, other Compilation elements not centralized to Midgar will now have to be utilized.

Spoiler: 7 predictions on the use of Compilation elements

1.) Cissnei will show up, probably around Gongaga. She will show up either as a bounty hunter/investigator tracking Cloud and the others for the Turks or she'll happen upon them while investigating who they are. She will recognize Cloud but won't say anything much out of not wanting to upset Zack's parents and/or confused about what Cloud is doing.

2.) The Before Crisis Turks will either show up in their established home towns as important NPCs for quests to give you their weapons or they'll be optional bosses. I imagine there might be recognition but maybe not.

3.) Zirconiade will be an optional superboss and maybe even a summon, located in either the area around the Temple of the Ancients or the Forgotten City, but I'm far more certain it's the Temple of the Ancients. The ziggurat shape of its materia makes me think it'll show up in a weakened form there as a boss to fight and maybe a summon to obtain. Depends on how much they decide to nerf it.

4.) The Restrictors, as SOLDIER's 14th Unit Lost Force, will be dispatched by Scarlet to help thwart and capture Cloud and the others or during the Huge Materia quest. They'll show up and be superbosses. They will either show up in Nibelheim as an ambush or somewhere with the Huge Materia.

5.) Rosso and Azul will be superbosses during the return to Midgar. In particular, Cloud and Rosso will share a moment and she will remember him, to tie into why she zeroes in on Cloud in Dirge of Cerberus.

6.) Genesis will be a superboss near the tail end of the Remake, with the return to Midgar. More than likely a Combat Simulator fight.

7.) Banora will be visited as an optional dungeon like the Deepsea Research Facility or the Omega Ruins. Minerva will be a superboss here and/or summon. Cloud will freak out somewhat here due to familiarity.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'd bet money on Banora being in there somewhere, but I don't know about Rosso and Azul ... Not unless we want the continuity kerfuffle @Clement Rage insists upon for Dirge really becoming a thing.

I mean, Rosso mentions that she had never felt rain before the night Vincent met her, nor even seen the sky until a few days prior. It rained on Midgar the night of Shin-Ra's collapse, so that likely rules out a confrontation topside, and despite the team using an underground route (well, underplate route) to get to the mako cannon, it needs to be an underground route Reeve is familiar with. He decidedly is in the dark on Deepground or anywhere they're likely to show.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'd bet money on Banora being in there somewhere, but I don't know about Rosso and Azul ... Not unless we want the continuity kerfuffle @Clement Rage insists upon for Dirge really becoming a thing.

I mean, Rosso mentions that she had never felt rain before the night Vincent met her, nor even seen the sky until a few days prior. It rained on Midgar the night of Shin-Ra's collapse, so that likely rules out a confrontation topside, and despite the team using an underground route (well, underplate route) to get to the mako cannon, it needs to be an underground route Reeve is familiar with. He decidedly is in the dark on Deepground or anywhere they're likely to show.

I predict the entire scenario for the return for Midgar will get thoroughly revamped and expanded. I get what you're talking about. However, I imagine that Cloud and the others will have a much longer time getting to Sector 0, and will have to go through several winding tunnels to get through Sector 0, reach the Shinra Building and all of that will just so happen to cut through another "Shinra Research Lab" through Sector 0.

And let's just say while going through, two Tsviets are waiting for them. And upon defeat, they get trapped and unable to follow, and I just imagine Rosso clenching her fist in rage as she remembers the blond guy as being the one who thwarted her getting to see outside

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

If Deepground were to be revealed during the course of the Remake, rendering DoC non-canonical, would that be a tragedy?

 

[Shademp]

If Deepground were to be revealed during the course of the Remake, rendering DoC non-canonical, would that be a tragedy?

Nope

 

[Odysseus]

Your general distaste for a game you've spent countless hours on perplexes me a bit.

 

[Shademp]

I maintain the position (and my apologies for being a broken record) that I think FF7 lore has more to gain by initiating a new timeline. Not just because I think it would provide actual meaning to FF7R's crazy direction but because the old post-OG stuff is a mixed bag of content anyway. A soft reboot that leaves behind OtWtaS, The Kids Are Alright, AC and DoC to the original timeline would be refreshing in my opinion. I've had a ton of enjoyment with AC and DoC in particular but I think FF7R has the potential to set up something better.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I think if that were the case, it would only apply to the remake as I don’t think DoC not occurring in the remake retroactively makes it non-canon to the OG…plus we’d probably still get DoC content, just reinterpreted to fit the remake’s new story

 

[Makoeyes987]

They're not going to make Dirge or any title non-canon. That's just not going to happen and they've repeated over and over how they want to use the Remake to incorporate the Compilation elements into the Remake story, not undo them. It's why they keep doing it and foreshadowing to certain plots in the future. It's not to "undo" or erase these titles. They're lovingly embracing them. Everything they do with the Remake has entrenched the Compilation deeper into it's bones, people still really think they're going to pull a Disney with this?

Having Cloud and the others encounter Azul and Rosso in their infiltration of Midgar to reach Shinra and the Sister Ray would be no different than what they did with Yuffie having her fun run in with Nero lol

 

[KindOfBlue]

They're not going to make it non-canon. That's just not going to happen and they've repeated how they want to use the Remake to incorporate the Compilation elements into the Remake, not undo it.

Having Cloud and the others encounter Azul and Rosso in their infiltration of Midgar to reach Shinra and the Sister Ray would be no different than what they did with Yuffie having her fun run in with Nero lol

They definitely won’t decanonize it to the OG but if we wanna get technical though, they haven’t guaranteed that the events of AC and DoC would still occur in the remake’s continuity, only the events of the OG story itself…I mean really, incorporating Compilation elements could just as easily be a way to tell a new story with them (an unknown journey perhaps?) as it could be a way to lead into the familiar stuff

 

[Shademp]

They're not going to make Dirge or any title non-canon.

And we shall continue to disagree about the absoluteness of this statement for many years to come. Through FF7R Square has demonstrated the audacity that they will do whatever they please. So at this stage anything could happen. Remake might loop back around to the old post-OG content in the end or it might diverge into a new timeline (though the new timeline will probably still be a consequence of the timeline where AC, DoC etc occurred). Anything is possible at this stage and none of the developer interviews/statements have convinced me of either direction being certain.

 

[Makoeyes987]

They definitely won’t decanonize it to the OG but if we wanna get technical though, they haven’t guaranteed that the events of AC and DoC would still occur in the remake’s continuity, only the events of the OG story itself…I mean really, incorporating Compilation elements could just as easily be a way to tell a new story with them (an unknown journey perhaps?) as it could be a way to lead into the familiar stuff

But they have.

You have the set up for the Kids Are Alright with Lesley's missing fiance, the commemorative photos taken by Corneo (a key plot element right there), and Kyrie being a little brat and knowing Aerith.

You have Aerith having a close relationship with orphans in the slums and healing them.

You have Hojo already taking an interest in digitizing his consciousness and taking over Weiss's body.

You have Before Crisis just being lovingly embraced over and over. Hell, Tifa's cat is back along with Turks being at Nibelheim.

All of this set up leads to each respective Compilation story. Each writer, from Toriyama to Nomura to Kitase keep repeating that they're using the Remake to set up and meaningfully connect to the Compilation where it's appropriate. And they say that the fundamental story of the Remake is FFVII, so yes. It's going to connect. Eventually when this is over, they're going to move on. They're not going to make another continuity to just do FFVII all over again. They're gonna eventually move on to FFX next.

 

[KindOfBlue]

But they have.

You have the set up for the Kids Are Alright with Lesley's missing fiance, the commemorative photos taken by Corneo (a key plot element right there), and Kyrie being a little brat and knowing Aerith.

You have Aerith having a close relationship with orphans in the slums and healing them.

You have Hojo already taking an interest in digitizing his consciousness and taking over Weiss's body.

You have Before Crisis just being lovingly embraced over and over. Hell, Tifa's cat is back along with Turks being at Nibelheim.

All of this set up leads to each respective Compilation story. Each writer, from Toriyama to Nomura to Kitase keep repeating that they're using the Remake to set up and meaningfully connect to the Compilation where it's appropriate. And they say that the fundamental story of the Remake is FFVII, so yes. It's going to connect. Eventually when this is over, they're going to move on. They're not going to make another continuity to just do FFVII all over again. They're gonna eventually move on to FFX next.

You’re right about the connection, but the nature of that connection is still unclear. I’m not saying AC and DoC are gonna be completely irrelevant, far from it, but I don’t see repurposing those plot points instead of straight-repeating them as any less of a connection to the Compilation in the slightest. I mean, what they’ve done with CC and potentially AC in the ending already should be an indicator of that possibility.

 

[Makoeyes987]

If the connection foreshadows and sets up the plots of those titles, coupled with the writers saying their intent is to connect the Remake to those previously completed stories, why would it mean they're trying to erase those stories and de-canon them? And I consider that essentially de-canoning them because as they said, the Remake is still the FFVII story, so they're at least portraying the Remake as occupying the same narrative space as the OG at least in regards to continuity.

They're not even being repurposed at all. Hojo isn't "repurposing" his intention of possessing Weiss, he's just matching up exactly with what he wanted in DC. Like, that's literally 100% Dirge of Cerberus foreshadowing. The novella characters are all set up for the AC era book in the Remake. So I guess I'm just wondering what's the "repurpose?" The writers certainly aren't doing that. They're referring to these connections reaching back to their previous work now.

 

[KindOfBlue]

If the connection foreshadows and sets up the plots of those titles, coupled with the writers saying their intent is to connect the Remake to those stories, why would it mean they're trying to erase those stories and de-canon them?

They're not being repurposed at all. Hojo isn't "repurposing" his intention of possessing Weiss, he's matching up exactly with what he wanted in DC. Like, that's literally 100% Dirge of Cerberus foreshadowing.

The problem with that question is that it suggests that making AC and DoC not follow the remake would “erase and decanonize” them. Nothing is going to change the fact that they are the canon follow ups to the OG, but the remake’s future isn’t totally set in stone (they made a whole ending just to tell us this lol).

You can have all the foreshadowing and callbacks and fanservice in the world and still not repeat the old plots with stuff like geostigma, the three Sephiroth clones, the Deepground conflict etc. while still holding on to post-OG elements like stuff we’ve seen in the novellas. It’s really not that hard, and I’d argue it makes for a more conclusive end to the Compilation.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The fact they're looping the Remake to the Compilation that already exists, is how the FFVII project meets it's end. Do you think they're going to like, redo a new Compilation? Like, Remake Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus? I find that very unlikely. Maybe they'll revisit them in game form or something but I don't see them actually going through the creative effort of remaking the entire Compilation just to make it continue off the Remake FFVII and then we have a Remake of the Compilation to match the Remake of FFVII. The writers would be burned out as hell and ready to rest.

They're certainly not undoing their stories or making new stories for the post FFVII years, to replace the stories they already have. Why would they even do that, they're not motivated to undo their own work. And I'd bet you money on that. And the fact the writers keep calling back (not fanservice, literal in narrative meaningful call backs) and keep referencing the overall narrative, shows that it holds significance. Again, they're not going Disney and wiping the EU just to "start fresh." That's not even their style.