SPOILERS How do you want remake to approach the Vincent-Lucrecia-Hojo-Sephiroth material?

[Roundhouse]

Inspired by Groove...

The whole dynamic between Hojo, Vincent, Lucrecia is an intriguing one [along with their connection to Sephiroth]. As you can see from other threads, it's still debated about, and the whole 'Vincent is the father' thing was a huge fandom theory. Some also argue that Vincent himself seems surprised when Hojo claims Sephiroth is his son at the end of the original game. You can actually meet Lucrecia in the OG as most here will know, but we never get to see her interact with Sephiroth, and there is barely any real conversation with her and Vincent. It feels like the remake is going to flesh a lot of this out, including their backstory [you can see the optional flashback in the og, and of course Dirge went into it more].

How would you like the remake to approach this whole area? Do you want them to make Vincent the father? [Most will say no here, I'm sure.] What about less significant changes...like more context during the flashback sequences, or a longer conversation when you meet Lucrecia? What about Lucrecia actually getting out of that damned crystal at some point? Surely Vincent and Hojo will have a bit more of a dramatic encounter when they meet again?

 

[JonRON2000]

It's debated about bc a select few keep bringing it up as a topic even though the story around it has been delivered to the audience in full.

So to answer your question, I want them to do what they already did.
Deliver the same lore that exists in OG and DoC but cleaned up for Remake as everything in Remake has been.

 

[JonRON2000]

Anyone still discussing Vincent being the father of Sephiroth in 2022 is beating a long since dead horse.

 

[Clement Rage]

I don't have confidence in their ability to do it. The dynamic has a lot of uncomfortable things in it and necessary ambiguity, it would be hard work to do well.

They would be capable of it if they wanted to put in said hard work, but I don't think they will have enough time or will to do it, because they have so many other things to do in making these games and remake storytelling so far has tended to sand off the hard uncomfortable edges. It would be a lot of work for limited reward.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

If this is an open discussion!
I would like them to give clues that would characterise Vincent as an undead integrating the memory of the Sephiroth-fetus and Lucrecia as an undead with Hojo's memory.

 

[Makoeyes987]

If this is an open discussion!
I would like them to give clues that would characterise Vincent as an undead integrating the memory of the Sephiroth-fetus and Lucrecia as an undead with Hojo's memory.

 

[Rhoey]

It would certainly be shocking if Vincent was Sephiroth's dad, but it's unlikely, and I HOPE that he's not. The reason Vincent might have been surprised was that perhaps Lucrecia never said who the father was - doesn't necessarily mean that Vincent is. It would be a natural reaction from him to be surprised, outraged and disturbed finding out that Hojo is the father if he didn't already know, because that shows that he didn't know the full extent of Hojo's experiments. Maybe Lucrecia didn't tell Vincent who the father was, simply because she thought it's none of anyone's business, and it's really not. I bet Shinra's experiments are classified, and on a need to know basis. Turks aren't informed on things that don't pertain to their work. And here's where the lines get blurred, because Lucrecia's pregnancy and experiment on her unborn child is VERY relevant to his work if his job is Lucrecia's safety! It's a big moral conundrum, and despite the potential dangers and Vincent's warning snd questioning, Lucrecia still chooses to go through with it.

Anyway, I would want to see Hojo more fleshed out. Perhaps in his younger days, when he didn't look so greasy and evil, he could manipulate women into getting with him, and Lucrecia was one of them. I'd like to see Vincent warn Lucrecia about Hojo, but Lucrecia dismisses him, because Hojo is already in her head. I can see him gaslighting her, playing mind games with her, and Vincent sees through his charade, that's why Hojo is constantly at odds with him. But in the end, he convinces Lucrecia to stop talking to Vincent, possibly managing to isolate her from anyone who actually cares about her.

That's what I'd like to see. It's extremely unpleasant and dark, because it adresses emotional and psychological abuse. But the truth is, I see that in Hojo and would like to see it play out. It would give deeper meaning to why Lucrecia chose Hojo over Vincent (aside from the whole spiel about her accidentally killing his dad).

Just my two cents.

 

[Eerie]

Anyway, I would want to see Hojo more fleshed out. Perhaps in his younger days, when he didn't look so greasy and evil, he could manipulate women into getting with him

You're forgetting that in the OG itself we see Hojo with girls fawning around him in Costa del Sol lol. Though I do think we're unlikely to have that scene in Remake, it doesn't seem that him being a greasy evil bastard prevents him to get women. For Lucrecia, I think it's unlikely we'll get a more detailled reason as to why she chose to act the way she did - remember that in AC/C Vincent is still unable to move on, so his answers cannot be in Remake.

 

[Rhoey]

You're forgetting that in the OG itself we see Hojo with girls fawning around him in Costa del Sol lol. Though I do think we're unlikely to have that scene in Remake, it doesn't seem that him being a greasy evil bastard prevents him to get women. For Lucrecia, I think it's unlikely we'll get a more detailled reason as to why she chose to act the way she did - remember that in AC/C Vincent is still unable to move on, so his answers cannot be in Remake.

I didn't forget that. In fact, I was thinking about that Costa Del Sol scene. I doubt they will put it in Remake, but I've always imagined Hojo being an excellent manipulator to get what he wants from anyone. Violence, like shooting Vincent, only happened because Vincent likely saw him for what he was finally.

 

[Mobius Stripper]

In a way that doesn't joss all my fanfic.

 

[Roundhouse]

Something that is quite funny in the OG is that if you bring Vince along with you to confront Hojo at the end, he reacts to Hojo and speaks to him, but Hojo doesn't react or speak to him at all XD Even at that point Vincent is just a meaningless joke to him. I wonder if remake will change that or not...

 

[Rhoey]

Something that is quite funny in the OG is that if you bring Vince along with you to confront Hojo at the end, he reacts to Hojo and speaks to him, but Hojo doesn't react or speak to him at all XD Even at that point Vincent is just a meaningless joke to him. I wonder if remake will change that or not...

I always thought that's just because Vincent is an optional character in OG.

I think that will most likely change in remake.

 

[Roundhouse]

I dunno what the reasoning was, but either way the actual effect is so good. Makes Hojo seem utterly uncaring as he should be.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's 100% just a function of Vincent being present in the scene and an optional party member who is not required. Because throughout FFVII's script, a lot of what party members say during dialogue are not specifically responded to, with the script proceeding as written. It feels seamless because their responses are contextually relevant and not always necessitating a specific reply to them.

Vincent's declaration of anger while appropriate for the scene, doesn't really need Hojo to acknowledge him directly. In fact, Hojo's mind is being corroded and corrupted by Jenova cells and Sephiroth's influence. Hence, he's more concerned with Sephiroth than the specific past he shared with Vincent. So him ignoring his fury isn't that inconceivable.

 

[Roundhouse]

Oh don't get me wrong, him not acknowledging Vincent is brilliant. Whether that is by design or complete luck isn't a big deal to me, just that it actually is that way.

 

[Roger]

He wouldn't acknowledge Cloud either if Cloud wasn't so in Hojo's face about it. Red XIII can be there too, didn't care about that escaped specimen either.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I imagine that the writers will have a more dynamic and dialogue focused scene in the Remake iteration of the Sister Ray moment, to take advantage of the Remake's voice acting, expanded characterization of the cast, and just further flesh-out the moment given its previous brevity. Hojo's already got more lines than ever, and I have a feeling given his vastly more detailed depiction, he will have a much more memorable scene there.

Especially given that according to DoC, Chaos was apparently known to Hojo directly. I wouldn't be surprised if Vincent's rage triggered his Limit Break.

 

[KindOfBlue]

remake storytelling so far has tended to sand off the hard uncomfortable edges.

I mean they didn’t shy away from Hojo being a complete sicko with him suggesting Aerith be forced to bear a child or the grossly detailed taunting about her dead mother

 

[Roundhouse]

One awesome bit in the OG that someone pointed out here ages ago was the bit where Vincent says something like 'the one who should have slept...was you, Hojo!' and the Jenova battle music kicks in right there. Hard to beat that moment.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Only uncomfortable edges that got seriously sanded off was Jenova massacring random Shinra employees along with it's blood trail. That's the most painful loss, imo.

And I hope with Episode Intermission bringing back the blood, we won't have that be a thing again.

 

[Leafonthebreeze]

I think having a ton of people live after platefall, and having the devastation of the first reactor bomb revealed to have been caused by Shinra and not Avalanche also felt like some corners being sanded off.

I guess on the one hand the Remake makes you walk through and see first hand the effect of the bomb on innocent civilians, but also makes it clear that our heroes didn't really cause it, which felt like a bit of a cop out.

 

[Makoeyes987]

A ton of people didn't live during the plate fall though. Only around 20 or so Sector 7 NPCs out of an approximate 50 or more from Ch. 3 are seen in-game surviving, coupled with the NPC dialogue and story implications which state hundreds of thousands were lost or deceased. Gameplay mechanics left us with our main NPC survivors but that doesn't change the population devastation. I think the Remake's surreal and enigmatic ending showing that uplifting and unreal survival around 7th Heaven is also somewhat misleading, given that might not even be the proper reality corresponding to Cloud and the others. Gold glitter rain, in-tact Seventh Heaven sign, and everything else being clues to think about.

As for AVALANCHE, that reveal didn't really change the fact that they brought the fight to Shinra first and the other reactor they bombed. That detail over Shinra's propagandizing their own reactor attack simply showed us they're a corporation who manipulated the conflict to their benefit.

 

[Mobius Stripper]

Something that is quite funny in the OG is that if you bring Vince along with you to confront Hojo at the end, he reacts to Hojo and speaks to him, but Hojo doesn't react or speak to him at all XD Even at that point Vincent is just a meaningless joke to him. I wonder if remake will change that or not...

"You took everything from me!"
"I don't even know who you are."

 

[KindOfBlue]

A ton of people didn't live during the plate fall though. Only around 20 or so Sector 7 NPCs out of an approximate 50 or more from Ch. 3 are seen in-game surviving, coupled with the NPC dialogue and story implications which state hundreds of thousands were lost or deceased.

Not to mention we see way more of the aftermath of the platefall in the remake, kinda makes common gripes like the music choices seem trivial to me

 

[Makoeyes987]

I think there's some truth to the music criticism versus how the event was portrayed on the OG but I think overall there was far more gained and well executed with the Remake.

It certainly balances out even better when you combine the event a portrayal in episode Intermission too.