How far do you think Part 2 will go?

[mandelbrot86]

I see 2 feasible possibilities, in terms of logistics and storytelling:

• 3 parts, as I outlined in my Game Talk #1 video
• 4 parts where Kalm to Meteor Summoning is being divided into 2 parts at Nibelheim (final town/dungeon in part 2, prologue/intro in part 3)

I plan to discuss the 4 part approach in great detail in Game Talk #2 which I can hopefully work on before they announce where part 2 ends ^^

Also, I completely agree with @Theozilla , @Cannon_Fodder and @Clean Cut Chaos

I only recently started following you on YouTube and had never seen this video, but I have to say, I came to the same conclusions. Less analytically, mind you. I just had the thoughts of what seems like a fleshed out story arc and where tutorials could be placed. Seriously hope they don't have to split Act 2, but I feel like they might due purely to content and map size.

 

[Jairus]

Question is though, if Part 2 ends at Nibelheim, who would be the final boss? Materia Keeper has no story significance, it's just a big monster in your path. I could see Mt. Nibel being the final dungeon in this scenario, but the boss would have to be different, I think, to be connected to the story. Or add such a connection to Materia Keeper. I don't know. Just something I thought I'd bring up.

 

[mandelbrot86]

Question is though, if Part 2 ends at Nibelheim, who would be the final boss? Materia Keeper has no story significance, it's just a big monster in your path. I could see Mt. Nibel being the final dungeon in this scenario, but the boss would have to be different, I think, to be connected to the story. Or add such a connection to Materia Keeper. I don't know. Just something I thought I'd bring up.

Same thought. Just like Motorball makes a lousy end boss for Part 1 and I'm sure it's going to involve that new Soldier, ending it in Nibelheim would require some additional plot elements to make it feel complete.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

Apologies if this doesn't make any sense, but I don't like the idea of ending a part in Nibelheim because I think it makes too big a deal of discovering the town is still there. As it is in the OG, it's a really disturbing stop on a roadtrip, not a destination of any kind. Cloud and Tifa don't want to go back, their path just happens to take them there. And even once they get there, they don't have the time/motivation to get to the bottom of its reappearance. I think this approach elevates the whole plot of Cloud's memories; Nibelheim standing is less of a dramatic reveal and more of a "wait, what?" moment. Stories and the people who enjoy them automatically put more emphasis on endings; ending on the Nibelheim moment makes it a standout moment rather than something that gnaws at the back of your mind.

Not to mention Jairus' point, which is a good one. The materia keeper isn't a good final boss, but what could you add without making it seem really cheesy?

 

[Obsidian Fire]

As far as Nebilheim goes, I don't think Vincent will be an optional character to get this time. He's too involved in uncovering what really went on with Sephiroth's creation and birth in the OG. So I think the game, no matter where it ends, is going to make getting Vincent a big deal. So I'd image the bosses that "unlock" him are going to be mandatory to do and therefore a much more significant in how they are handled.

That might give some idea for where the story in Nebilheim will go at least. The reveal about Sephiroth's origins from Vincent could either make a good ending for Part 2 or a good kick-off for Part 3.

 

[Saven]

Not to mention Jairus' point, which is a good one. The materia keeper isn't a good final boss, but what could you add without making it seem really cheesy?

Sephiroth is in the Shinra Mansion when you go back to Nibelheim

 

[Jairus]

Yeah but you don't fight him. He just throws a materia at you and flies away with a hint to come after him.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I mean... Sephiroth doesn't do more then that in all the Midgar hallucinations Cloud has of him in the OG. And yet in the Remake, Sephiroth is way more present. So I bet the Sephrioth in the Shinra Manor is going to be a way bigger deal in the Remake then in the OG.

 

[Jairus]

That's true, and he likely will be. Still might not be a boss fight, though. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Theozilla]

In a four part scenario with Nibelheim/Shinra Mansion being the final town/dungeon of Part 2, I could easily see another (Remake original) piece of Jenova being thrown at Cloud instead/in addition to the Materia Sephiroth throws at him.

Mt. Nibel could then be the opening area of Part 3.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

Sephiroth is in the Shinra Mansion when you go back to Nibelheim

Forgot about that. I wouldn't call fighting Sephiroth in Nibelheim cheesy per se, but I doubt I'd like it. Fighting a Jenova fragment that Sephy throws at you is a little better.

 

[mandelbrot86]

I really like one of the points from @Vyzzuvazzadth in his video. It was only recently brought to my attention that the final fight with Sephiroth in the OG, (The one that's scripted to win) is actually Cloud fighting the part of Sephiroth in his own mind. I really love his idea that when Cloud gives the materia to Sephiroth in the Crater, we could see a similar fight where Cloud is scripted to lose no matter what just to provide a contrast and clarify the meaning of that final fight at the end of this saga.

 

[Freki]

^That would be a really interesting thing to see, I'd love if that made it's way in.
Also a part of me feels like they'd want to at least get to Rocket Town, even if just for the sake of getting the entire party by the end of the second act. Personally it seems odd to me to still not have the entire party by the time you're in the third part

 

[Roger]

^That would be a really interesting thing to see, I'd love if that made it's way in.
Also a part of me feels like they'd want to at least get to Rocket Town, even if just for the sake of getting the entire party by the end of the second act. Personally it seems odd to me to still not have the entire party by the time you're in the third part

Third part could start from Cid's perspective in Rocket Town, it's a better opener then just the party traversing the Nibel Mountains.

 

[Vyzzuvazzadth]

One way a splitting point at Nibelheim could work is to block off the Shinra Mansion, and have parts of Mt. Nibel and the reactor there as the final dungeon with another Jenova boss battle as the final confrontation and possibly make a callback to Cloud's story where he couldn't remember how he beat Sephiroth 5 years ago.
Part 3 can then start with Cloud waking up in the Shinra Mansion, the player being confronted with the Sephiroth Clones in the village, meeting Vincent, learning more about the Cetra and Jenova in the library (if needed) and then the hunt for Sephiroth continues, through Mt. Nibel again (different path) with the Materia Keeper as the first boss.

I haven't fully thought through everything yet, so feel free to poke holes in my suggestion ^^

Third part could start from Cid's perspective in Rocket Town, it's a better opener then just the party traversing the Nibel Mountains.

That's a neat idea! However, wouldn't it detract too much from the actual theme and goal of part 3? The prologue/intro of a story should at least set up the main themes, atmosphere, tone and characters/villains, which a Cid prologue doesn't really do. Starting in Nibelheim with the Sephiroth Clones and the Shinra Mansion does, however (if we consider the Summoning of Meteor the end of part 3).

 

[Roger]

One way a splitting point at Nibelheim could work is to block off the Shinra Mansion, and have parts of Mt. Nibel and the reactor there as the final dungeon with another Jenova boss battle as the final confrontation and possibly make a callback to Cloud's story where he couldn't remember how he beat Sephiroth 5 years ago.
Part 3 can then start with Cloud waking up in the Shinra Mansion, the player being confronted with the Sephiroth Clones in the village, meeting Vincent, learning more about the Cetra and Jenova in the library (if needed) and then the hunt for Sephiroth continues, through Mt. Nibel again (different path) with the Materia Keeper as the first boss.

I haven't fully thought through everything yet, so feel free to poke holes in my suggestion ^^


That's a neat idea! However, wouldn't it detract too much from the actual theme and goal of part 3? The prologue/intro of a story should at least set up the main themes, atmosphere, tone and characters/villains, which a Cid prologue doesn't really do. Starting in Nibelheim with the Sephiroth Clones and the Shinra Mansion does, however (if we consider the Summoning of Meteor the end of part 3).

I've toyed with the idea of moving the launch of Shinra #26 forward, while Cloud and Tifa are still in Mideel. Cid's journey would book end Part 3, while Part 4 is the return of Cloud and Tifa till the end. Waking up at Junon would make for a great opening chapter for Part 4, but I dunno if it gives Part 3 enough story. Maybe Wutai will be hugely expanded upon indeed tho.

 

[Vyzzuvazzadth]

Maybe Wutai will be hugely expanded upon indeed tho.

Yes, Wutai will surely get more attention this time, especially with President Shinra mentioning it before the Air Buster battle. Wutai will probably get even more stage time in dialog form in part 1 alone. There's so much lore to explore anyway and they'd be stupid not to do that.

Part 3 will then have the rest of Nibehleim/Mt. Nibel, Rocket Town, Wutai, Gold Saucer again (the date), the Temple of the Ancients, Gongaga (again), Bone Village, the Sleeping Forest, the Forgotten Capital, trek to Icicle Inn, Icicle Inn, Snowboarding, the Great Glacier, Gaea's Cliff, Whirlwind Maze and then the ending cinematic.
That's 15 locations, some small, some large. With expansions and the Remake treatment, I'm sure this can fill an entire game.

Same with Kalm to Nibelheim: Kalm, Chocobo Farm, Midgardsormr Swamp, Mythril Mines, Fort Condor, Yuffie Forest (yes, I think she'll join before Junon), Junon (lower and upper), the Cargo Ship, Costa del Sol, trek to North Corel, North Corel, Gold Saucer, Gongaga (still optional?), Cosmo Canyon, Nibelheim.
Also 15 locations, big and small.

Works for me.

I've toyed with the idea of moving the launch of Shinra #26 forward, while Cloud and Tifa are still in Mideel. Cid's journey would book end Part 3, while Part 4 is the return of Cloud and Tifa till the end.

This would be an interesting idea for a Cid-centric game. But I doubt they'll do something like this, as the main story isn't about Cid and neither about the space program and going to space. Also, I think there's too little content for one game from Cloud's subconsciousness to the end.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

What are people's thoughts on Wutai being inaccessible until the final part? That makes the most sense to me, because there's a lot of mandatory ground to cover in the middle parts already. Plus, Wutai makes for a good mystery for new and old players if it's talked about long before you get a chance to go there. New players want to see what all the hype is about, and old players want to see how Wutai has been expanded.

 

[Roger]

Yes, Wutai will surely get more attention this time, especially with President Shinra mentioning it before the Air Buster battle. Wutai will probably get even more stage time in dialog form in part 1 alone. There's so much lore to explore anyway and they'd be stupid not to do that.

Part 3 will then have the rest of Nibehleim/Mt. Nibel, Rocket Town, Wutai, Gold Saucer again (the date), the Temple of the Ancients, Gongaga (again), Bone Village, the Sleeping Forest, the Forgotten Capital, trek to Icicle Inn, Icicle Inn, Snowboarding, the Great Glacier, Gaea's Cliff, Whirlwind Maze and then the ending cinematic.
That's 15 locations, some small, some large. With expansions and the Remake treatment, I'm sure this can fill an entire game.

some very small indeed. Nibelheim isn't big, and is already explored, for the second time, at the end of the last game, Gongaga is even smaller and had 0 new content in the original, it was a convenient place to wake up at in the OG, very well might not happen at all in the Remake, the Great Glacier, Gaea's Cliff and the Whirlwind Maze and the ending cinematic is one sequence to me. Same with Midgar sure but this is one big abandoned area.

What are people's thoughts on Wutai being inaccessible until the final part? That makes the most sense to me, because there's a lot of mandatory ground to cover in the middle parts already. Plus, Wutai makes for a good mystery for new and old players if it's talked about long before you get a chance to go there. New players want to see what all the hype is about, and old players want to see how Wutai has been expanded.

Yuffie's quest doesn't really work as well with Meteor in the sky and a few days/hours left till all non-Sephiroth life on the Planet is obliterated.

 

[OWA-2]

Hopefully the PS5 allows them to do a complete Part 2, instead of having to split it. Because a trilogy would be the perfect option for this story. Midgar chapter, Reunion chapter, and Meteor chapter. Perfect!

 

[Odysseus]

It's funny to think that part 1 will probably be the shortest one over-all.

 

[Jairus]

What's the real difference between the PS4 and PS5? Can you tell just at a glance at a screen the difference between a PS4 game and a PS5 game? Especially if it's one released for both systems, what's the visual difference?

 

[pxp]

What's the real difference between the PS4 and PS5? Can you tell just at a glance at a screen the difference between a PS4 game and a PS5 game? Especially if it's one released for both systems, what's the visual difference?

From what I understand so far (and in extreme layman’s terms), it’s not the graphical fidelity which will improve drastically from 4 to 5 - at least relative the end of one generation to the beginning of another - but rather things like loading times, or the lack thereof, that will be insanely noticeable. Obviously for the better.

Having said that, by the time we get to the 5’s mid-life (or the PS5 “Pro”) with 8K visuals as standard I’m sure the difference will be as noticeable as apples and oranges.

 

[mandelbrot86]

From what I understand so far (and in extreme layman’s terms), it’s not the graphical fidelity which will improve drastically from 4 to 5 - at least relative the end of one generation to the beginning of another - but rather things like loading times, or the lack thereof, that will be insanely noticeable. Obviously for the better.

Having said that, by the time we get to the 5’s mid-life (or the PS5 “Pro”) with 8K visuals as standard I’m sure the difference will be as noticeable as apples and oranges.

There's also real-time raytracing. Basically, it can calculate very realistic reflections, refractions, ambient effects of colored material, and various other light effects in-game. To this point all reflections and refractions we have seen during gameplay have been done with some cheating methods. Water usually has some raytracing properties but that's why it can cause frame drops. Still not full on raytracing even when it is high quality water. I think you will see a major difference with the lighting effects.

 

[Jairus]

Oh, ok, I wasn't aware of all that. But can the human eye really tell the difference between 4k and 8k?