How Jenova Destroyed the Cetra

[Obsidian Fire]

Out of all the things in "The Kids Are Alright", how Jenova destroyed the Cetra is probably the most important thing it included. Because this really puts a lot of what Sephrioth does with Jenova's power into perspective. And really, what happens throughout the Compilation to people with Jenova's... genetic inheritance in them.

Here's the text for it...

There had been an incident where the revival of a dead person had caused the deaths of many. It was Jenova’s doing. Tseng recalled that it was a story he heard from Professor Hojo, who was in charge of the Shin-Ra Company’s Science Department.

“According to records, a long time ago, Jenova almost destroyed the world. The method it used was very clever, indeed. First of all, it took the form of someone important to whomever it wanted to deceive, in order to get close to them. For example: a parent, sibling, friend, or acquaintance. It would also sometimes take the form of a dead person. Jenova had just such a power. It then gained their trust, and influenced them. ‘Somebody bears a grudge against you.’ ‘Somebody wants to kill you.’ Once you start telling people these kinds of things, they start getting suspicious.. And, before you know it, people start fighting. It’s self-destruction, really.”

On the one hand, this really isn't all that complicated...
1) Jenova reads people's minds and figures out who they trust
2) she uses shapeshifting/illusions to look like that person
3) she influences people how she wants to because they trust her
4) most of the ways she influences people makes them distrust other people
5) everyone starts fighting each other
And this is before we ever get into any of the ways Jenova used to her own Cells to turn the Cetra into monsters/copies. Which I'm... more or less going to ignore for most of this post at the moment.

The biggest thing about this is... Jenova is doing this to people who *don't* have Jenova Cells/Tissue in them. They're Cetra... that Jenova is reading the minds of and making herself look like people they trust (or are dead) and then telling them what they need to hear to do what Jenova wants them to do. It's not so much that Jenova destoryed the Cetra, it's that she got the Cetra to destroy each other *for her*. And she doesn't even have physical control over them either.

TKAA uses Kadaj as a showcase of how this works and it's... really freaky to watch him do it. Whether that's by threatening people or reading their minds (and they *know* he's doing it at times) or telling them what they want to hear. People can't even tell it's happening unless they (a) don't know the person Kadaj is Mimicing and so they see the *actual* Kadaj and (b) know he's saying the wrong things. And that... either happens on accident or takes a while to figure out.

Sephrioth does this too at the Northern Crater. Making everyone see what really happened at Nibelheim, making people see him as Tifa, making no one see the *actual* Tifa... the list goes on. The point of Sephrioth doing it at Northern Crater is the same reasion Jenova does it too... to make Cloud doubt Tifa (and Tifa doubt herself). All so that Sephrioth can drive the wedge in further between Cloud and everyone else.

Remake just turns this up to eleven with Cloud seeing illusions... almost everywhere and everyone else getting caught up in large-scale illusions of his at least twice. Remake is... heading very quickly into the territory of making it... more than a bit difficult to figure out what is real and what is not when Sephiroth is around. And that is really freaky.

What I'm most interested in though... is how this information fits into Crisis Core. Because... if Jenova can do these kinds of illusions and mental prodding to facilitate paranoia/suspicion in people who *don't* have Jenova Cells/Tissue in them... what can she do to people who *do*? The crux of Crisis Core revolves around the Nibelheim Reactor... with Jenova on one side of the wall and Sephiroth on the other. And... even in the OG version of the Nibelheim Reactor... we see Sephrioth doing almost exactly what Cloud does when he gets the migraines from Sephiroth (and his own Jenova Cells) messing with him. Crisis Core's Nibelheim ups this to include a very similar sound effect to Cloud's Sephiroth-induced migraines in AC/Remake... as well as very similar cuts to what Sephrioth seems to be "seeing" in his head at the same time as Cloud gets in AC. So... it certainly *feels* like Jenova could be trying to influence and manipulate Sephrioth somehow at Nibelheim. And AC and CC do a pretty decent job at selling the idea that Jenova is *aware* at Nibelheim.

Even other parts of CC give the feeling that this could be happening. From the sound of things, Jenova doesn't trying to manipulate people by making stuff up out of nowhere and trying to make them suspicious and paranoid with that. She can read minds. She knows what people are thinking already... And both Angeal and Genesis have *good reasons* to be suspicious/paranoid of certain things. But those suspicions and paranoia are blown way out of proportion. I can't help but think that maybe Jenova was trying to make them more suspicious/paranoid so that they'd end up siding with her... or fighting each other. Angeal at least admits that he doesn't even know what he himself is thinking at times, and that's... worrying given how many of Jenova's abilities have to do with mental powers...

If all Jenova needs to influence someone is to be near them... and she's been aware this entire time... she could potentially be influencing everyone in SOLDIER... or around SOLDIER for that matter... It's kinda impossible to get away from something that is *inside* yourself after all... And Cloud is... always around AVALANCHE...

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

One wonders what its motive is in doing that. To get a potential threat to its own existence to destroy themselves? It's an entity without malice; it isn't characterised as enjoying any of this, but more as if it's acting on instinct.

 

[Wol]

Here's hoping Chapter 18 is just Jenova fooling us. This information could potentially explain all the insanity that is coming.

 

[Ite]

You conflate “important” with “trusted.” Someone important that causes someone to get close could be a rival, or, say, a mentor gone mad...

 

[Makoeyes987]

Even other parts of CC give the feeling that this could be happening. From the sound of things, Jenova doesn't trying to manipulate people by making stuff up out of nowhere and trying to make them suspicious and paranoid with that. She can read minds. She knows what people are thinking already... And both Angeal and Genesis have *good reasons* to be suspicious/paranoid of certain things. But those suspicions and paranoia are blown way out of proportion. I can't help but think that maybe Jenova was trying to make them more suspicious/paranoid so that they'd end up siding with her... or fighting each other. Angeal at least admits that he doesn't even know what he himself is thinking at times, and that's... worrying given how many of Jenova's abilities have to do with mental powers...

There are several things to remember and consider.

Jenova is a malevolent and predatory alien that uses its psychic, shapeshifting and regenerative powers to hunt, kill, and infect other lifeforms so it can destroy planets and survive throughout space. However, the Cetra defeated this creature and by the time Shinra gets their hands on it, it's rendered essentially inactive. Not dead or completely inert, but docile and in a standby-like state.

Even in that situation, its mental powers are subtly at work. The Remake hints at Hojo's sanity slowly being eroded due to prolonged exposure to Jenova as he dedicated his entire life to experimenting and fixating on it.

And then there's what happened to Angeal, Genesis and Sephiroth, as you said. You bring up how all three of them mentally snap as they learn their origin, giving way to aggression, suspicion and paranoia. I believe it's a symptom of sharing the instincts of Jenova, but for Sephiroth, there's also the fact that he was in close proximity to her. More than likely, him experiencing that existential crisis allowed for Jenova to essentially resonate with him, and awaken those instincts within him.

Sephiroth fully inherits Jenova's cunning instincts and abilities, but on its own it more than likely did a little nudging with Sephiroth because they were close to each other. He resonated with her and felt her, hence why he had those fits in his mind.

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

Official translation for reference.

When the dead returned, the living were lost in much greater numbers. And it was Jenova's doing. Tseng thought back on something he'd heard from Dr. Hojo, the head of Shinra's Science Department.

"According to the records, Jenova nearly succeeded in destroying the world in the distant past. And the interesting part is how – it was a masterful trick. She deceived people by approaching them in the form of someone dear to them. Parents, siblings, friends and neighbors, the gamut. Sometimes people who had died. This was the nature of her power. And then, once she'd gained the targets' favor, she would manipulate them: 'He hates you. She wants to kill you.' She filled their head with terror and paranoia until sooner or later, fights would break out...and they engineered their own ruin."

 

[Gackt'sMother]

Is Jenova malevolent? Is a crocodile malevolent? Is Covid 19 malevolent? Or is it simply "doing as nature dictates", to borrow Rufus' phrase.
Sephiroth is Jenova's survival and reproductive instincts combined with a human psychology and will.

 

[Gackt'sMother]

PS Gackt's Mother is Licoriceallsorts. Sorry about that. Signed in on a different laptop and accidentally accessed a very old alt.

 

[Wol]

She's like a parasite, and parasites look evil, as she does.

 

[wildestdream]

The game does not give much information on Jenova, (which in itself should quash the entire "Jenova controlling Sephiroth theory", but some people...) yet in the video which can be accessed from Gast's old home at the Snow Village, Ifalna discusses Jenovas impact on the Cetra in brief. Apparently, the WEAPONS were created by the planet in order to destroy/imprison Jenova, but before they could be used, a few surviving Cetra managed to defeat Jenova and seal her in some sort of rock formation.

As for Jenova's purpose? Again, not much can be discerned from the game script itself, but I'd imagine* that it was simply to find the Promised Land and to summon Meteor. Whether she wished (or even knew how!) to become one with the planet back then, or wished simply to destroy all life on the planet, I won't even hazard a guess at...

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

She's like a parasite, and parasites look evil, as she does.

defeat Jenova and seal her in some sort of rock formation

Okay, totally unrelated but these two quotes just reminded me (again) of a certain something from FFX (though the second quote I don't remember it being exactly like that).

Spoiler: FFX Spoilers

As for Jenova's purpose? Again, not much can be discerned from the game script itself, but I'd imagine* that it was simply to find the Promised Land and to summon Meteor. Whether she wished (or even knew how!) to become one with the planet back then, or wished simply to destroy all life on the planet, I won't even hazard a guess at...

I'd say it's purpose was to do what Sephiroth tries to in AC, including replacing the Lifestream with the black one?
Using Mr. Planet Junior to crash on Chrono Trigger's also extra-tiny world?

About it's malevolance, we'll probably never really know unless SE ever does a game set on the Cetran Age. (yeah... not gonna happen )

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

"What I want, Cloud, is to sail the darkness of the cosmos with this planet as my vessel, just as my mother did long ago."

So presumably, Jenova would choke out a planet's lifestream, then use it as a ship to travel to the next planet.
Perhaps she thrives off of consuming lifestreams.
Maybe Meteor is the desiccated remains of the planet she arrived in.
Or maybe it's just a normal nearby asteroid.

 

[Wol]

honestly I would rather leave Jenova's origins and motivations as it is.

Space Parasite is enough.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

It's our favourite Lavos.

Anyway, even in the remote case they ever make a Cetran Age game, they'd probably make it so Jenova is still mysterious and ambiguous in nature and I'd be fine with it. I like both possible versions, one with a horror-like mysterious creature, and the more standard like a Cloud of Darkness with Ultimecia-like personality traits or whatever would fit.

 

[Wol]

I can't wait for the new iOs title, a horror Rpg based on FFVII's beloved universe.

Jenova's Witnesses: Cetran Extinction

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

When the dead returned, the living were lost in much greater numbers. And it was Jenova's doing. Tseng thought back on something he'd heard from Dr. Hojo, the head of Shinra's Science Department.

"According to the records, Jenova nearly succeeded in destroying the world in the distant past. And the interesting part is how – it was a masterful trick. She deceived people by approaching them in the form of someone dear to them. Parents, siblings, friends and neighbors, the gamut. Sometimes people who had died. This was the nature of her power. And then, once she'd gained the targets' favor, she would manipulate them: 'He hates you. She wants to kill you.' She filled their head with terror and paranoia until sooner or later, fights would break out...and they engineered their own ruin."

This text is Tseng's interpretation of what he understood of what Hojo has interpreted from what Ifalna told in the Icicle Inn videos. We do not know on what basis Ifalna interpreted. We do know that Evan tells the story and that he informs us at the beginning of the book that he was not present everywhere all the time and that some parts of his story may therefore be wrong or incomplete. Here we can notice that it is a thought of Tseng that is recounted...

'He hates you. She wants to kill you.'

Ifalna never mentioned this kind of manipulation, but she did mention a virus transmission.
I'm not sure if the virus she's talking about has the effect of turning a normal mental disposition into paranoia, I always thought it was Jenova's cells which, when injected, turned the host into a violent being.

 

[waw]

Man, I missed this site. Stayed away for a couple months due to life issues and I just.. you all are the best.

I am fascinated with just what Jenova is. I know it rubs some folks the wrong ways, but I'm going to highlight a few points about this weird entity here.

1. We never see it die.
2. We see it having decayed tissue, but not die.
3. Its cells always seem somehow viable.
4. It can adapt to any tissue.
5. It has incredible mental powers.
6. It seems to intensify those mental powers if its cells are inside something. (Telepathic field.) Before I continue, I'm going to get deep into sci-fi stuff here.

If you haven't read Julian May's Saga of the Pliocene Exiles or the Galactic Milieu Trilogy, I highly recommend it. IMO, it's the pinnacle of 70s and 80s sci-fi and deals a lot with telepathy. May actually Pierre Tielhard du Chardin, a French Christian mystic/philosopher who posited a lot about a sort of Cosmic All, connected through a mental network, that would push towards Singularity. In his understanding, this singularity was Christ and could only be worked through love. Some pretty early hippie shit! However, quick sidenote... Chardin was deeply racist and a very problematic (though interesting) thinker.

Anyway, one of the terms Chardin and others building on his word use is a "Noosphere." (The concept also came from a Russian.) The idea of a Noosphere (Reason/Thought/Mind Sphere) was the next stage of the Biosphere. We can conceptualize all life on earth as a living in a biosphere, and these bats over here affect those humans over there. Micro-organisms and macro-organisms, they're all connected. Right? So the Noosphere is that postulated "thing" or "web" in which thought, reason, and the mind exists on. If you believe in ESP, Telekinesis, and all that stuff, there's some sort of plane of existence/dimension in which that stuff operates on.

It's a sort of World Wide Web without the World Wide Web. Have you ever noticed how people at separate points on earth will develop similar ideas at the same time? The sort of "zeitgeist?" Or how many cultures draw upon the same archetypes with mythologies? Chardin and other thinkers believed these ideas were all part of the Noosphere and humans were latently/softly connected to it. The closer we got to the Singularity in evolution, the stronger our connection to the Noosphere would be.

Okay, I'm going to pause on that for a minute.

Jenova is this weird entity and I think we've actually misunderstood what it is. It's got this native angelic body that seems to have tentacles and wings and this gaping skull. TKAA describes a woman's rotting arm as being a remnant of the creature, like literally her severed arm, if I recall correctly. This idea that it was in a perpetual state of decay is very important for where I'm going. In any other setting, we'd assume that means this thing is undead or dead. After all, things that decay aren't alive, right?

Yet, Jenova still exerts its will like the Dark Side of the Force. It still influences decisions and it still moves, fights, and seemingly acts living, but never quite sentient. I don't think Jenova is sentient. It's semi-sentient at best. Or, a macro-organism sized Virus.

I think Jenova is a massive collection of virus cells that are hive-mind linked on its Noosphere.

I think, in FF7 Terms, the Gaian/Planet/Minerva-esque Lifestream is its own Noosphere.

Jenova either has its own Lifestream a la The Spirits Within or it creates its own by corrupting Gaia's. We certainly the later being the case, but this doesn't necessarily mean if Jenova had its own native Lifestream. I postulate here that Jenova is a viral, parasitic hive entity that eats Lifestreams and Planets. It's not sentient, it's like Covid 19 if Covid 19 had a "desire" to wipe out humanity. If we could "hear" Covid 19's thoughts, or any other horrible virus, we'd hear a lot of predatory intentions I imagine.

I do think that the Jenova entity "evolved" with the development of Genesis, Angeal, and Sephiroth. In theory, either of them could have become the new dominant mind of the Jenova Noosphere, and it's still open for Cloud, Zack, or any one else with Jenova Cells, to possible overtake it. I think Hojo did something very different when he did the Lucrecia experiment - essentially made a hybrid of Jenova-humans that injected a sentient mind into the Jenova Noosphere. All the same instinctual virus thoughts and desires (infect, consume, spread) exist, but not so too does Human memory, thought, hopes, and dreams.

My ideas here aren't wholly unique or original, but the way I conceptualize them are a little different it seems. I think a lot of us are essentially saying the same thing. But there's a few oddities that remain.

Why doesn't Jenova corrupt Sephiroth until he arrives in Nibelheim at the reactor?

The Jenova cells want to come back together, a Reunion, which is wholly unique for viruses. Viruses and parasites want to spread their infection. Jenova wants to reconvene. Wants we see all the Jenova-celled organisms convene at the Northern Crater in OG FF7, Seph kills them and their cells seem to recombine into Jenova Synthesis and/or Bizzarro Sephiroth, depending how we interpret that stuff. With Sephiroth's death, we see an evolution of this Lifestream-consuming parasite:

Sephiroth has his own corrupted lifestream, largely made of all the entities Jenova has touched. I think this means that Sephiroth-Jenova and the Lifestream Black are an entirely new entity and not what Jenova normally does. Just as Hojo made a hybrid Human-Jenovoid being, killing Sephiroth made a Jenvoid-Lifestream hybrid. It still wants to Reunion, it still wants to kill the Planet, and it still wants to spread to another planet. (Ironically, perhaps, Omega would be the best vessel for this to happen, no?)

The biggest thing about this is... Jenova is doing this to people who *don't* have Jenova Cells/Tissue in them.
...
People can't even tell it's happening unless they (a) don't know the person Kadaj is Mimicing and so they see the *actual* Kadaj and (b) know he's saying the wrong things. And that... either happens on accident or takes a while to figure out.
Angeal at least admits that he doesn't even know what he himself is thinking at times, and that's... worrying given how many of Jenova's abilities have to do with mental powers...

If all Jenova needs to influence someone is to be near them... and she's been aware this entire time... she could potentially be influencing everyone in SOLDIER... or around SOLDIER for that matter... It's kinda impossible to get away from something that is *inside* yourself after all... And Cloud is... always around AVALANCHE...

The process of Jenova's influence is very interesting indeed. It doesn't just show an illusion. It affects emotions on a psychic level and hinders one's ability to doubt the illusion. It's not just visual trickery. It's pyschic mind-fuckery.

However, the Cetra defeated this creature and by the time Shinra gets their hands on it, it's rendered essentially inactive. Not dead or completely inert, but docile and in a standby-like state.

Even in that situation, its mental powers are subtly at work. The Remake hints at Hojo's sanity slowly being eroded due to prolonged exposure to Jenova as he dedicated his entire life to experimenting and fixating on it.

And then there's what happened to Angeal, Genesis and Sephiroth, as you said. You bring up how all three of them mentally snap as they learn their origin, giving way to aggression, suspicion and paranoia. I believe it's a symptom of sharing the instincts of Jenova, but for Sephiroth, there's also the fact that he was in close proximity to her. More than likely, him experiencing that existential crisis allowed for Jenova to essentially resonate with him, and awaken those instincts within him.

All this is awesome, but we also know Genesis gets close to Jenova in the infamous CC Nibelheim reactor. It's not just proximity alone. I believe there's a psychic struggle on the Jenova noosphere for a dominant sentient personality. They're all feeling Jenova's instincts, they're all drawn to each other (Angeal, Sephiroth, and Genesis want to be friends and care about each other on some level, but they're also predatory with each other). Sephiroth had the strongest will and spirit and so he dominated the Noosphere, and therefore the entire Jenova entity.

Side note: Perhaps this is why Genesis sleeps so soundly between CC and end of DoC: waiting for the Sephiroth "mind" to be weakened/silence enough to remain independent?

Official translation for reference.

The game does not give much information on Jenova, (which in itself should quash the entire "Jenova controlling Sephiroth theory", but some people...) yet in the video which can be accessed from Gast's old home at the Snow Village, Ifalna discusses Jenovas impact on the Cetra in brief. Apparently, the WEAPONS were created by the planet in order to destroy/imprison Jenova, but before they could be used, a few surviving Cetra managed to defeat Jenova and seal her in some sort of rock formation.

Thanks for posting this (both translations, y'all. Love you guys so flippin much!) We have a couple really interesting things here, too:

1. Jenova can theoretically be "killed" by the WEAPONs.
2. The Cetrans beat the WEAPONs to the punch.
3. Jenova is not killed.

I draw several conclusions:

1. The WEAPONs would have intense collateral damage. OR
2. The WEAPONs could be infected as well. If Jenova can't be killed, but can continue to spread its cells, the WEAPONs could get contaminated and Gaia/Planet is screwed. Sealing it away was the only way.
3. I assume the "seal" is the same as the Materia Crystal Lucrecia is in, actually. It tracks with other FFs in some ways.

This text is Tseng's interpretation of what he understood of what Hojo has interpreted from what Ifalna told in the Icicle Inn videos. We do not know on what basis Ifalna interpreted. We do know that Evan tells the story and that he informs us at the beginning of the book that he was not present everywhere all the time and that some parts of his story may therefore be wrong or incomplete. Here we can notice that it is a thought of Tseng that is recounted...

Tseng also references scriptures about the Cetran and possibly not just Hojo-transmitted stories that color what he understands. Jenova, with these powers, seems incredibly Luciferean. In fact, it's very original sin and betrayal sounding. Perhaps the ancient Cetran word for Calamity and Lie are interchangeable because of this. Doubt, Deceit, Betrayal are all tools that Jenova employed to destroy them. But what Jenova truly responsible for, and what were human traits and flaws?

Arguably, President Shinra is the most Jenova like entity without Jenova cells. But with no contamination! This makes me feel all the evils Jenova does are also human nature, the worst of it. It just pushes on those feelings.

But there's this Virus thing, right? In OG that's mentioned. I think it's a lot like Geostigma, infecting monsters or maybe even zombie invasion of sorts.

All of this would make a great atmosphereic Cetra-Age story.

 

[S.L.Kerrigan]

Tseng also references scriptures about the Cetran and possibly not just Hojo-transmitted stories that color what he understands.

Are the scriptures you are talking about those that are mentioned in Dirge of Cerberus (the Cetra tablets)? If so, I think they've been written before Jenova's arrival and therefore cannot describe her modus operandi. (https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Omega_Report#Report_.2301)

 

[waw]

Are the scriptures you are talking about those that are mentioned in Dirge of Cerberus (the Cetra tablets)? If so, I think they've been written before Jenova's arrival and therefore cannot describe her modus operandi. (https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Omega_Report#Report_.2301)

Tseng mentions these to young Aerith in a flashback in Remake. It's unclear if they're the Pre-Jenova Tablets or what. He's much more of a believer here, though.