How would you re-write AC/C?
- Thread starter Phantom
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Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
LOL, I mean.
I never had a problem with Denzel, and I'm extremely critical of child characters who are just randomly inserted into plot lines they never originated in. Kid-Appeal Characters, Child Tag-Alongs, and Scrappies get my side eye real quick.
Denzel didn't feel that way. He wasn't so in your face to the point of obnoxious, nor was he so hidden that he felt superfluous. He served as a fitting lens and representation of what Cloud was fighting to protect in this new fight against Sephiroth and his 3sons remnants.
I never had a problem with Denzel, and I'm extremely critical of child characters who are just randomly inserted into plot lines they never originated in. Kid-Appeal Characters, Child Tag-Alongs, and Scrappies get my side eye real quick.
Denzel didn't feel that way. He wasn't so in your face to the point of obnoxious, nor was he so hidden that he felt superfluous. He served as a fitting lens and representation of what Cloud was fighting to protect in this new fight against Sephiroth and his 3
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Agreed, never had a problem with Denzel. You could argue he's just a plot device but, yeah, that's better than a pushy Scrappy Doo type. And having someone connected to the Sector 7 Plate drop wasn't a bad idea.
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Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Some thoughts since I find opinions on AC so interesting to discuss.
Denzel is as much a plot device as Marlene is a plot device in VII.
Both exist as lenses meant to reveal the inner conflicts and emotional ties their respective caregivers carry into their battles. Aside from that, they are not showcased often or in-depth. Usually it's in relation to another character they relate to. Marlene to Aerith, and Denzel to Cloud.
The only difference is Marlene originated in VII and Denzel came later. Denzel has the benefit (and curse) of coming after the game and being depicted in a modern medium with voice acting, higher definition, and his own story.
Objectively speaking, I don't see how one is more hollow or defined than the other. Denzel isn't shoehorned as some super special kid above the others, nor is he so superfluous that removing him from the story leaves it more streamlined and focused on its core plot. Denzel represents someone that Cloud and Tifa care for because on one hand they share the fate of being victims of Shinra, and on the other, Cloud and Tifa in a twisted way, are responsible for his parent's deaths too. He's a promise of redemption to both of them. Denzel also gives some uniquely appreciated and needed pathos to Cloud and let's him showcase another side to him that is rarely seen in modern depictions. Cloud, Tifa, and Denzel make up a family. The additional scenes added with him and Marlene interacting with Cloud make the film better and give Cloud a far more holistic and in-depth depiction than "depressed young man who turns badass during the later half of the film."
I mean, if you remove the kid(s) from AC (especially Denzel), then it all really falls apart as a movie and story because now it TRULY becomes a question of "why?"
What is the hook here (aside from the obvious?) Who are the people Cloud, Tifa and the others are caring for? Who are the target audience of Sephiroth'sdelinquent teenagers remnants in trying to further build up hatred for the planet? Why is Cloud's beef with Kadaj personal, aside from an uncanny resemblance and Kadaj's stalker-like tendencies?
I mean, in the end.. a lot of the ways people want to change AC essentially destroys it to make something else entirely.
Which is a fine and valid opinion to hold, obviously it's not gonna appeal to anyone. But if the premise is to change AC, we're to at least accept AC's existence on its core premise. Which is a movie focused on Cloud, his relationship with Tifa, moving on from the past with caring for the orphans with Geostigma, and of course Sephiroth's return. Otherwise, you're basically making a brand new FFVII movie.
Denzel is as much a plot device as Marlene is a plot device in VII.
Both exist as lenses meant to reveal the inner conflicts and emotional ties their respective caregivers carry into their battles. Aside from that, they are not showcased often or in-depth. Usually it's in relation to another character they relate to. Marlene to Aerith, and Denzel to Cloud.
The only difference is Marlene originated in VII and Denzel came later. Denzel has the benefit (and curse) of coming after the game and being depicted in a modern medium with voice acting, higher definition, and his own story.
Objectively speaking, I don't see how one is more hollow or defined than the other. Denzel isn't shoehorned as some super special kid above the others, nor is he so superfluous that removing him from the story leaves it more streamlined and focused on its core plot. Denzel represents someone that Cloud and Tifa care for because on one hand they share the fate of being victims of Shinra, and on the other, Cloud and Tifa in a twisted way, are responsible for his parent's deaths too. He's a promise of redemption to both of them. Denzel also gives some uniquely appreciated and needed pathos to Cloud and let's him showcase another side to him that is rarely seen in modern depictions. Cloud, Tifa, and Denzel make up a family. The additional scenes added with him and Marlene interacting with Cloud make the film better and give Cloud a far more holistic and in-depth depiction than "depressed young man who turns badass during the later half of the film."
I mean, if you remove the kid(s) from AC (especially Denzel), then it all really falls apart as a movie and story because now it TRULY becomes a question of "why?"
What is the hook here (aside from the obvious?) Who are the people Cloud, Tifa and the others are caring for? Who are the target audience of Sephiroth's
I mean, in the end.. a lot of the ways people want to change AC essentially destroys it to make something else entirely.
Which is a fine and valid opinion to hold, obviously it's not gonna appeal to anyone. But if the premise is to change AC, we're to at least accept AC's existence on its core premise. Which is a movie focused on Cloud, his relationship with Tifa, moving on from the past with caring for the orphans with Geostigma, and of course Sephiroth's return. Otherwise, you're basically making a brand new FFVII movie.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
Yeah, Rufus points out quite clearly what Cloud's motivation is in the movie, "I hear there are orphans living with you, don't you want to put smiles back on their faces."
But that's not goddamn true, Marlene is not an orphan, she has a father. Lumping together Denzel and Marlene as motivation for Cloud was a baaad move and rewrite of ACC.
But that's not goddamn true, Marlene is not an orphan, she has a father. Lumping together Denzel and Marlene as motivation for Cloud was a baaad move and rewrite of ACC.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Well, technically she's an orphan as Dyne and Eleanor are dead.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
Barret is a parent of Marlene. To consider her an orphan in this context is to reject Barret as a relevant factor in her life.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I see what you're saying, but an orphan is just a child whose parents are dead. Denzel basically has Cloud and Tifa as parents, but he's still an orphan.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
Denzel remembers losing her parents, and is in the process of forming a new family. He also know he could die at any second after meeting Cloud, Marlene knows nothing but a life where Barret has been there for her until Advent Children artificially removed him from the equation to create a nuclear family with Cloud as the father. I don't see any merit in trying to adhere to the heart of Advent Children's premise. It needs fundamental changes.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Rufus is being manipulative, he's trying to get to Cloud's heart. He's just pulling the string that has the best chance of working -Cloud and Tifa also lost parents in traumatic circumstances, he's not going to lose impact by being unnecessarily technically correct.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
It's not Rufus, it's the whole narrative of AC. They got rid of Barret as a factor to position Cloud as absentee dad to Denzel and Marlene.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Marlene is kind of an orphan, since Barret has left her with his friends while he goes prospecting. He's always leaving her with people while he goes off to make the world a better place for her. She's a quest-orphan the way some wives are golf-widows 
That's how he Dads. But anyway, Clement is right: Rufus is trying to be emotionally manipulative, not technically correct.
That's how he Dads. But anyway, Clement is right: Rufus is trying to be emotionally manipulative, not technically correct.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
"I hear there are orphans living with you" should really make Cloud think "uh no?" But again IT'S NOT JUST RUFUS. Barret's been gone longer then Cloud, but Cloud's absence it's presented as what's having a bad effect on Marlene and what she's so indignant about. Barret doesn't matter in her life. Or Tifa's life. Advent Children gets flack for the fanservicy bits and the nonsensical bring back Sephiroth plot, but we musn't pretend the original point of focus, Cloud and Tifa's domestic situation, wasn't also wrong in it's very core premise.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Do you really think Cloud is thinking straight at this point? Thinking has never been his strong suit.
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
I'm not about to say the story of Advent Children isn't flawed, but that's never been my main problem with the movie. The way the movie is edited is terrible. Everything moves so fast, plot points are rushed over to get to the next action set piece. If it just slowed down for a minute and gave the characters some room to breath, I think it would be worlds better.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
...Then it'd be Kingsglaive and you'd be dead of natural causes before it ends.
I kid, I actually loved Kingsglaive, but it was super super long,
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
All the things that make stories incomplete to other people make the stories feel more real to me. There are loose ends and stuff left unexplained, like how a real world would be.
Firstone33
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Daniel
Leave it alone I do not know why anyone wants to rewrite AC it is fine yes maybe more stuff could have been answered but that is why it is called compilation of ffvii, I understand people were upset and such but leave it be that includes aerith's voice who I heard people complaining about the minute they heard it.
I would not feel ac for anything including the voices especially aerith, Mena Suvari did a good job so did the others but that is my opinion
I would not feel ac for anything including the voices especially aerith, Mena Suvari did a good job so did the others but that is my opinion
I would rewrite it so that it's about Cloud, Tifa and Barret going on a journey to search for Aeris, like they implied they would do at the end of the original game. Also Cloud would be much more in tune with how he was portrayed in the game, and Shinra would stay gone.
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
Uh, there was never any implication that Cloud and co. were going to “search” for Aerith at the end of the OG, Aerith was dead. If you’re referencing the “I think I can meet her there” like, that’s not meant literally.
There’s an entire separate discussing said line further if you’re curious https://thelifestream.net/forums/threads/what-did-cloud-mean-when-he-said-this.22003/
There’s an entire separate discussing said line further if you’re curious https://thelifestream.net/forums/threads/what-did-cloud-mean-when-he-said-this.22003/