I may have to leave again.

[Arianna]

PS: Ma'at is the Ancient Egyptian concept and goddess of cultural, social, universal, and personal balance and justice. I believe very strongly in it/her, so that is why I have mentioned ma'at in my previous posts.

Naive does not equal blind.

I am sorry some people here are distrustful of the police and other law enforcement. I was taught to respect the law and those who enforce it. I never had a bad run in with the police, but have had one or two slight run ins with repeat offenders of the law - officially caught and charged or not.

I said my piece and I stand by it; with recent revelations, some of my feelings have changed.

@ Ari, dacon and you both are right.
I didnt have to go there, i WAS looking for a fight. I think thats obvious.
He initiated a "physical argument", until his fist connected with my head it was a shouting contest.
It didnt have to go further, but yet again he demonstrated he likes to argue with his fists rather then his brain.

See, that would have been a nice thing to know in the beginning.

I still don't agree with you about purposely going there, but I do agree that defending one's self is appropriate.

I went to her place to be there for her but when on the way home i made a trip to the guys house.

Things got physical, i didnt kill him or anything lol. ...

No where does that say that the other guy threw the first punch.

I... it just sucks that most high ranking officers are usually the biggest criminals around.

Agreed. In my view, I don't believe joining them in those ranks is the best way to combat it.

Sadly it is true. My mother even talked about it: the guards were worse then the prisoners, at times.

I saw what she looked like and i couldnt sit there and do nothing about it, Most of the bruising and damage she received are from when she was already in the fetal position.
If he couldnt control himself and realize he was being a fucking psycho, beating on a girl thats smaller then him when shes already on the ground then theres no reason i cant lose control on him.

Getting her to the ER, or the police department, is doing something.

Also, i like how dacons current username fits well with him backing vigilantism.
Thats awesome.

You have a point. Personally, I don't feel that this excludes law enforcement.

I'm not all caught up on the stories involving him, but in the end, didn't Batman leave the criminals for the police to handle?

 

[Sheva Alomar]

Peanut gallery: "Being taught" does not equal "obeying". As in, just because you were told you respect the law, doesn't mean you have to. Make up your own mind instead of enforcing the stupid shit your elders told you.

 

[Joker]

I'm starting to find this offensive - I am literally shaking in anger in regards to this. Respect for those who enforce it, indeed.

I only wish that I was joking.

 

[Zee]

@Arianna

I'm baffled as to why you felt it was appropriate to get on your soap box to begin with.

 

[Arianna]

@Arianna

I'm baffled as to why you felt it was appropriate to get on your soap box to begin with.

Because people were supporting something that I thought was horrendous.

Also, other people get on their soapbox, so why should I not have the right?

Peanut gallery: "Being taught" does not equal "obeying". As in, just because you were told you respect the law, doesn't mean you have to. Make up your own mind instead of enforcing the stupid shit your elders told you.

Stupid shit?

I do not enforce something when it is proven to me that it's not worth while.

Again, I've not have trouble with the law. I think some laws suck, and some people involved in enforcement should not be, but for the most part, I agree with the law as I know it.

Just because it seems many of the people here have had trouble - or have no trouble starting trouble, or adding onto trouble - does not mean everyone does.

I'm starting to find this offensive - I am literally shaking in anger in regards to this. Respect for those who enforce it, indeed.

I only wish that I was joking.

Be angry, if you want. I don't find anything to be angry with.

Perhaps you should see why you are angry with the thought that someone actually believes in following the law?

I find it offensive that I have to defend myself at all!

It goes to the saying 'common sense isn't so common.' Because I feel strongly what I said is common sense.

 

[Winter]

oh man, a good guy going out and doing what all of society understands to be the morally right thing to do

how dare he

yeah, okay

anyways gabe I don't really know you but good luck with everything, you're a good dude with good intentions and there's nothing wrong with that. just be careful man, don't get too reckless.

 

[Arianna]

My husband and his family abused me psychologically. Almost physically.

I was physically and psychologically scarred from people in school (pretty much start to end).

I should have killed my husband (nearly went insane because I thought there was no other way out.)

I should have killed the kids and teachers at school who hurt me (Columbine, much? Oh and I thought of revenge!)

Oh yeah, I was also sexually used by my cousin and some other guys...

They should die. At the very least, be hurt. A lot.

No, I never did get to the police (partly was too young to know better, partly I believed the crap that it wouldn't do any good); and no I haven't lost total trust in the system due to my issues. Humanity maybe, but I've got to keep up hope.

Does this sound like someone you'd want to be around? Does it sound like what you would agree to?

This is what you guys sound like to me.

 

[Sheva Alomar]

Stupid shit?

I do not enforce something when it is proven to me that it's not worth while.

Again, I've not have trouble with the law. I think some laws suck, and some people involved in enforcement should not be, but for the most part, I agree with the law as I know it.

Just because it seems many of the people here have had trouble - or have no trouble starting trouble, or adding onto trouble - does not mean everyone does.

That's because the indoctrination stupid shit keeps the conformist sheep scared.

 

[Max Payne]

My husband and his family abused me psychologically. Almost physically.

I was physically and psychologically scarred from people in school (pretty much start to end).

I should have killed my husband (nearly went insane because I thought there was no other way out.)

I should have killed the kids and teachers at school who hurt me (Columbine, much? Oh and I thought of revenge!)

Oh yeah, I was also sexually used by my cousin and some other guys...

They should die. At the very least, be hurt. A lot.

No, I never did get to the police (partly was too young to know better, partly I believed the crap that it wouldn't do any good); and no I haven't lost total trust in the system due to my issues. Humanity maybe, but I've got to keep up hope.

Does this sound like someone you'd want to be around? Does it sound like what you would agree to?

This is what you guys sound like to me.

You have taken what was said, abused it and taken it to unnecessary extremes.

Notice no one said Gabe should have killed the fool, or maimed him. The man beat a helpless woman. Do unto others and it shall be done unto you.

People will only learn that the terrible things they do to others are wrong and disgusting, until they experience the same kind of horror visited upon them.

I do not condone wanton slaughter, but I will support due punishment of abhorrent crime.

 

[Ⓐaron]

There's so much bullshit in this thread I can't even. TLS has had some pretty severe examples of stupid shit in the past, but this has to rank up there near the worst of them. It's probably not as bad as that asshole who said the protesters in Iran deserved what they got, but it's still pretty damn bad.

 

[Arianna]

You have taken what was said, abused it and taken it to unnecessary extremes.

Notice no one said Gabe should have killed the fool, or maimed him. The man beat a helpless woman. Do unto others and it shall be done unto you.

People will only learn that the terrible things they do to others are wrong and disgusting, until they experience the same kind of horror visited upon them.

I do not condone wanton slaughter, but I will support due punishment of abhorrent crime.

Okay... I do not see how you feel I took something 'abused it and taken it to unnecessary extremes.'

What Gabe did is an unnecessary extreme. He didn't have to go to the guy's house. That's not his place. End of the story. He started the incident. That is the place of the police force. That is why civil people put laws into place, and people to enforce them.

If the people in charge of enforcing them do not do something to perpetuate them - then that is a situation all on its own. But first, one can try, one can at least try to go to the police and allow them a chance to get on the case.

This was not done. By someone who is already afraid of the law, and knows the consequences of doing something against the law, he took it upon himself to enact the law. Smooth move.

If you guys cannot or will not see this, that is on you, but do not think you can jump on me for seeing it and speaking up about it. No, I didn't have to speak up, but I did because I felt I needed to - at least for myself. As all of you have spoken for yourselves. I saw cheers for doing something that wasn't right (personally and legally), and showed that I'm not with you.

Blatant support for doing the wrong thing - my opinion or the law, which in this case the law would be on my side - angers me. All this stuff about the law is corrupt, etc. is beyond the point; reasoning to try to make one feel better about their position.

While I admit that I can jump to extremes with examples, I can tell you everything I mentioned did happen, and I did think of. Abusing this whole subject? Well, if it's for sticking up for what I think is right, so be it. I controlled myself in all of my situations, and nothing less is expected of every other person in this land. Does that mean all the laws in this country are right, and that we should not fight for better? No! But taking the law into ones own hands is not going to win points in the legal system.

And yes, sadly, some wrongs are never righted; aka: all the unsolved murder cases, and the present abuse scandal in the Catholic church.

You don't have to agree. Never said you did. Spoke my opinion, as equally as anyone else. I do find it disgusting. As for horrors in life? Well, I have had my own horrors, so I do know about that in some cases. Luckily I've had a pretty positive experience with the law, so while I know of horrible things, I am not going to give up on a whole freakin' police force, times how ever many there are in this country, just because of some assholes who should get what's coming (via the legal system).

And the US legal system's bad enough, because anyone who's been in prison knows it's no hayday. Why did Gabe mention he doesn't want to go back??? Sadly, it seems a lot of times, offenders don't learn! Now - if I'm wrong for stating this... Since I'm not, too bad.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

what is even going on in this thread

 

[Ⓐaron]

Why the hell should someone wait for the law to intervene before confronting a piece of shit woman beater over the fact that they beat a fucking woman to a pulp while she was in the fucking fetal position? For shit's sake. That shit is atrocious, and if people don't receive negative reinforcement from their peers for actions like that then when the hell should they receive negative reinforcement? Furthermore, it's Texas. The odds of this scumfuck receiving more than a slap on the wrist for his treatment of his ex are pretty much nil. Waiting for the law to intervene is a fucking joke. And it's not like Gabe even threw the first fucking punch. He went over and said, "Hey, what you did isn't cool." The guy reacted to Gabe the same way he reacted to his ex, the only difference is Gabe fought back. Good. The dickhead needs to know that not everyone is going to put up with his bullshit. Personally I wish he'd been able to leave that fuckface every bit as bruised as he left his ex. There's no way the cunt will ever learn empathy unless he has to suffer.

Furthermore, uh, are you seriously trying to argue that the cops should be trusted? Uh, no. No. They really shouldn't. I already linked this upthread but it deserves to be mentioned again. They really. fucking. shouldn't. There have been so many atrocious police abuse stories in the past several decades and this thread only scratches the surface. There are several bloggers who focus entirely on police abuse stories. Radley Balko and Carlos Miller are two of them. Anyone who can read their content and still believe that the police should always be trusted is a fucking idiot. I don't even care if that offends someone because it's the truth.

I can't even.

 

[Hisako]

Jesus harold christ of israeltown


Can't you people be more fucking moderate about this issue
This debate is now a shooting gallery

 

[Dana Scully]

I have respect for the law, and a whole shitload of respect for cops. These are guys and girls who voluntarily put their lives on the line to try and make society a better place. There are, of course, bad cops. There are awful, morally bankrupt cops who could really use a kick in the balls and a long stretch in prison. However, they are the minority; they get all the press, because everyone loves a story about a cop fucking up. Unlike a cop doing their job properly, which is boorrrr-ing, cops making mistakes/cops doing something illegal/corrupt cops makes for great drama and everyone knows drama makes for great news stories.

That said, my support for what Gabe did has nothing to do with whether or not I trust the cops or the law. It's about standing up for yourself and standing up for people who are too weak to do so themselves.

He defended someone who was weaker than himself against some dick of an individual who thought it was okay to beat on someone smaller than him. While what he did may have been unlawful, it was sure as fuck just.

Justice and the law are not the same thing. Gabe didn't kill the guy, or severely injure him, he just gave him some good, painful knocks. The guy won't have any permanent damage, but hopefully he will have learned that beating your partner will not be tolerated.

 

[Ⓐaron]

"Good" cops may outnumber the actively malicious ones (at least, I doubt most of the people on the police force are actively malicious), but in nearly every single abuse case do the "good" cops do anything to reprimand the ones that abuse their power? No. If anything they lock ranks and reinforce the perception the abusive ones have that they can get away with anything. And in most cases, they can. Even when there is video evidence of a cop flagrantly violating the law, the most common response from the abusive cop's fellow officers is an "internal investigation" which "clears" the officer of all wrongdoing. The fact is that it remains a noteworthy occurrence when a cop actually faces more than a slap on the wrist as a consequence for having committed abuse.

And problematic police actions are not a rare occurrence. As this map proves. (I feel dirty linking to Cato for any reason, but, well, it's unquestionably the best map available). This map focuses solely on botched drug raids. There are many, many other problematic police actions that have nothing to do with drugs (although the war on drugs and its poor handling remain a leading cause of police abuse).

I don't think this is a problem with the police specifically. At least, it's not a problem unique to police. In fact, it's pretty much universal; it's just the way authority works. Systems of authority will naturally gain the preservation of their own authority as a primary goal, whether the people responsible for that system are consciously aware of what they're doing or not. It's practically a law of nature. And people who spend years working together will naturally come to overlook each other's flaws and come to regard each other as essentially good people even if in many cases they are decisively not. The problem is, well, that's exactly the problem. There is no accountability. The system has no one on top forcing it to respect the rule of law, so what ends up happening is that the police themselves become the final arbiters of what goes. And that kind of power is asking for abuse. In fact, human naturally guarantees that such a system will be abuse. The only way to free the system to abuse is to make it directly accountable to the people it's supposed to serve through transparency and democratic openness, such as by instituting civilian review boards or by even more radical actions (forcing all police actions to be visible to the public and giving the public the right to vote to have officers recalled, etc., which, on the off chance any of you have even the slightest interest in anarchist theory, would be the basis of how the police force would be required to function in an anarchist society). But of course, the police fight that tooth and nail.

That said, I'm going to repeat what I said in my first sentence - I don't think most police are consciously malicious people. But the fact is that when it comes to instituting reforms like civilian review boards that could bring about real change that could help to present the kind of abuses detailed in the thread I've linked to twice? Most of them close ranks and oppose it. So even if they aren't overtly malicious people, they are still part of the problem for as long as they continue to stand in the way of reforms that could severely reduce the number of abuses committed by the police force.

That said I would not be even remotely surprised if Canada's system didn't have nearly the abuse problem that America's does, but there are still problems everywhere, and I believe I even posted a few Canadian problems in my thread (I can't remember what stories I posted where).

yes Aki I was going to go to bed. I did and couldn't sleep. ffffffffffuuuuuuuuuu insomnia

Jesus harold christ of israeltown


Can't you people be more fucking moderate about this issue
This debate is now a shooting gallery

Fuck moderation. People were trying to be moderate and it accomplished absolutely fuck all.

 

[Alex]

I can't be the only one who is actually physically disgusted at the fact that Arianna thought all this stuff over the past page or so was appropriate in the slightest to post in a thread meant for people to wish their friend good luck? :/

If you want to talk about your past, or continue this debate then make a new damn thread for it. Because this is definitely not the place for it.

 

[ForceStealer]

I'd be inclined to agree except that Gabe specifically said that he was okay with the discussion. But I can also split it out if everyone would prefer.

Also, while nothing too flagrant has happened yet, this thread teetered a couple times on the edge of becoming a flame war. Be careful.

 

[Dana Scully]

"Good" cops may outnumber the actively malicious ones (at least, I doubt most of the people on the police force are actively malicious), but in nearly every single abuse case do the "good" cops do anything to reprimand the ones that abuse their power? No. If anything they lock ranks and reinforce the perception the abusive ones have that they can get away with anything. And in most cases, they can. Even when there is video evidence of a cop flagrantly violating the law, the most common response from the abusive cop's fellow officers is an "internal investigation" which "clears" the officer of all wrongdoing. The fact is that it remains a noteworthy occurrence when a cop actually faces more than a slap on the wrist as a consequence for having committed abuse.

Fair point. This is why doctors are not allowed to treat family members or close friends; their judgement becomes impaired. Same thing with cops - I don't doubt there's an extreme amount of loyalty among them that makes them overlook all sorts of things.

Not trying to say that's an excuse, btw. It's all the more reason why they need those civilian review boards you mentioned:

The system has no one on top forcing it to respect the rule of law, so what ends up happening is that the police themselves become the final arbiters of what goes. And that kind of power is asking for abuse. In fact, human naturally guarantees that such a system will be abuse. The only way to free the system to abuse is to make it directly accountable to the people it's supposed to serve through transparency and democratic openness, such as by instituting civilian review boards

I can't speak for the States, but just last month here in Winnipeg:

The province took another step in modernizing how police forces are governed on Friday with the appointment of a new police commission.

The nine-member group will be headed, as expected, by University of Manitoba criminologist Rick Linden and will include two former Mounties, a former deputy chief of the Winnipeg Police Service and representatives from the Métis and First Nations communities.

Justice Minister Andrew Swan said the new commission will play a fundamental role in a new era of civilian input, governance and accountability in policing.

Since it hasn't been around long I can't say how effective it is, but yeah. Also, until very recently (he just resigned), Canada had a civilian commissioner for the RCMP, who I believe implemented a bunch of third-party watchdog stuff.

So they have started implementing these external civilian commissions, which I think is wonderful - if they work.

That said I would not be even remotely surprised if Canada's system didn't have nearly the abuse problem that America's does, but there are still problems everywhere, and I believe I even posted a few Canadian problems in my thread (I can't remember what stories I posted where).

Oh, Canada's police - both local and RCMP - definitely has its issues. Just look at all the arrests made in Toronto during the G8 summit (though a lot of that fault lies at the feet of Harper).

 

[Joker]

Dude I am about to get myself banned over this, I can feel it.

This is an argument you absolutely do not want to take down this path with me, Arianna. I'm the nicest, kindest, gentlest person anyone will ever meet, but once they cross the line, it's an entirely different story.

Do not judge or lecture me about something that you remain ignorant of. And don't condescend to me, or anyone else here, about how your view is "common sense".

 

[Joker]

btw in Texas getting away with a domestic is like crossing a one lane street

 

[Cookie Monster]

Wtf is this shit?

This isn't Jesus' imaginary perfect world. Gabe simply confronted a woman beater. The fucking scrub attacked him, and Gabe defended himself. Period.

Wish the man some good fortune, and let it be. No reason to ridicule him.

This thread has gotten out of hand, and should be closed, imho.

Sorry for the bullshit, Gabe.

EDIT: And Arianna, you see this here:

I am truly disgusted and disappointed that anyone is showing you support for taking the law into your own hands

That's where you fucked up. Granted, Gabe shouldn't have gone to the guys house, we all know that. But, he did so in the defense of someone he cares about. The guy has a good heart. There's nothing wrong with supporting a friend even when they've potentially made a mistake, no matter how disgusting or even well deserved the action may have been.

 

[Sheva Alomar]

So most of us wish Gabe well and hope things sort themselves out for the better for him. Myself included. That said, Imma let you finish but, dis here thread gon' be closed for the moment.