If DOC were made later

[VivaLaValenwind]

So I was wondering what you all would think if Dirge of Cerberus were made later. What i mean by this is that DOC was released right after Advent Children which basically means it was pretty much a rushed project. Now if SE were to put the time (and possibly effort) would Dirge have been a "better" game in terms of plot, gameplay, and graphics?

 

[Max Payne]

No.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yes.

Fixx'd.

I think its obvious if more time and effort was put in DC, it'd be better. That's just common sense.

 

[NoenGaruth]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=630.msg26558#msg26558 date=1236128447]

Yes.

Fixx'd.

I think its obvious if more time and effort was put in DC, it'd be better. That's just common sense.
[/quote]

Yeah if they had spent more time developing it and say, making it for the PS3 instead, I rekon it could have been way more awesome.

Things that could have done this would include:


-Making the game longer (start by including everything from the Lost episode mobile game). It seemed so short compared to CC.

-More character development with the Tsviets. Generaly all they do is show up and attack you, and most of Weiss's screen time is just when Hojo is in control.

-Make the Jap Multiplayer mode into a singleplayer side game (This would have covered the Tsviets character developemt).

-More active roles from the FF7 Crew, make Red XIII do something.

-Give Shalua a better outfit. She's meant to be a scientist, not a hooker.

-Include Rufus and the turks in some way. Srsly, the game is about Shinra's darkest secret and mostly set in Midgar and yet they don't even show the people who actualy are still part of Shinra (Despite Reeve saying Rufus probably didn't know anything chances are he knew more than they did since I mean c'mon...its Rufus, and he has the Turks who were the ones that brought Azul in and had their noses buried deep into all of ShinRa's secret projects).

That is what the game needed, unfortunatly what's done is done, and Dirge is nothing more than a mediocre shooter I played purely for the story.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=630.msg26558#msg26558 date=1236128447]

Yes.

Fixx'd.

I think its obvious if more time and effort was put in DC, it'd be better. That's just common sense.
[/quote]

If more time meant they would:

Fix the shitty gameplay
Change the crap story and characters
Make environments bigger and scenarios more interesting

Then I'd agree. But they had all the systems, story, and design in place from the beginning. If the game had been in the oven for 6 more month it still would have been the same piece of shit with maybe better graphics and less shitty gameplay. SE knew jackshit about making FPS games, they wouldn't have suddenly gotten that skill if they took longer.

It's possible the game could have been better with more time, but it's highly unlikely given their inexperience with the genre, and that's obvious Mako faggot.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yes. It would mean exactly that. Why the hell wouldn't it?

If they worked on it longer, they'd have realized the stupid mistakes they made in the gameplay, such as Vincent's shitty jumping, the targeting, controls, etc and it'd be fixed. Instead of it only getting fixed in the US release.

More time to write the story means they'd have given it more breadth and length. The characters would get better exposition and with more time, they could've included more areas and exploration.

At the very least, the story would be better and more epic. And who knows? Square never made a fightnig game before but Dissidia turned out to be gold. They may have figured it out and made something even better.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=630.msg26609#msg26609 date=1236131392]
Yes. It would mean exactly that. Why the hell wouldn't it?[/quote]

No it would not, not at all. Do you have any idea how long some games stay in development and keep the same things in them? Too Human was in development for almost a decade and was still complete shit.

SE had no experience in TPS game creation. That wouldn't have changed if they spent more time on the game.

If they worked on it longer, they'd have realized the stupid mistakes they made in the gameplay, such as Vincent's shitty jumping, the targeting, controls, etc and it'd be fixed. Instead of it only getting fixed in the US release.

We're talking about the US release aren't we?

More time to write the story means they'd have given it more breadth and length. The characters would get better exposition and with more time, they could've included more areas and exploration.

The story was already written. They weren't going to change that once they got well into development.

At the very least, the story would be better and more epic. And who knows?

Yeah right.

Square never made a fightnig game before but Dissidia turned out to be gold. They may have figured it out and made something even better.

Yes they did. Granted, the current poster child developers had nothing to do with them, and their company just published the games.

Either way, it would have been sensible for them to research the genre beforehand, which from the gameplay stand they seem to have not done.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's still possible it'd be better. They could've improved it with more play testing and development instead of just RUSHING.

I'm referring to the first release. The Japanese one. That was the first and the one they fucked up on most. Because they rushed.

And the story can be changed too. They tweaked the story of FFVII several times before finally putting Cloud as he is and having Aerith die.

Just saying, its possible it'd be better.

And no, they've not made a fighting game before. I don't know what fighting game you're talking about Dacon but S-E didn't make any.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=630.msg26619#msg26619 date=1236132985]
It's still possible it'd be better. They could've improved it with more play testing and development instead of just RUSHING.[/quote]

Yeah, well it probably would have still sucked.

And the story can be changed too. They tweaked the story of FFVII several times before finally putting Cloud as he is and having Aerith die.

Well programing for the Psone was notably easier than the most recent consoles, did they change the story and scenarios after they were already programmed into the system?

Just saying, its possible it'd be better.

Possible, but unlikely imo. The only way I'd see the game being significantly better is if they scrapped the whole thing they have now and started over like Mikami did with Re4.

And no, they've not made a fighting game before. I don't know what fighting game you're talking about Dacon but S-E didn't make any.

Erhgeiz, Bushido Blade, Bushido Blade 2 all had the Squaresoft logo slapped on them. They were published by SE. Noruma worked on Ehrgeiz too if I'm not mistaken. I think Ehrgeiz was the only one with direct attention given by members of Square though.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I don't know when they changed the scenarios in the actual games development but there were lots of things done differently than the first draft. FFVII got rewritten quite a few times. The story isn't necessarily locked in stone.

And well scrapping it wouldn't be too far out there. If they wanted to do something they'd do it. I'm just saying the likelihood of DC being better is definitely higher if they'd have spent a good time doing it.

Ehrgeiz wasn't developed by Squaresoft. It was just published. Dreamfactory developed that game. And all Nomura did was give new character artwork for the FFVII characters that appeared in Ehrgeiz.

Lightweight did Bushido Blade development, not Square.

However Square *did* help Lightweight in terms of Development for Bushido Blade 2.

But it still doesn't change the fact that Dissidia is Square's first fighting game they made from scratch by themselves. I think they could've done a good job with a shooting game if they had worked more at it.

 

[NoenGaruth]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=630.msg26628#msg26628 date=1236134364]
And well scrapping it wouldn't be too far out there. If they wanted to do something they'd do it. I'm just saying the likelihood of DC being better is definitely higher if they'd have spent a good time doing it.
[/quote]

This. One main trend I find in modern FPS/TPS games is that you can make a really awesome game even with a crappy storyline by simply having good graphics and physics (ESPECIALY physics).

Take Crysis for example, a very popular game but if you actualy play it you'll see that the story was pretty lame. However due to the fact that you could blow up or interact with just about anything made people like the game. Hell, I'd have enjoyed Dirge more if you could break through windows and hurl chairs at DG troops (or hurl DG troops at other DG troops).

Pretty much my point is that even if they kept the lackluster story, with more time and development on other areas they could have made the game more enjoyable.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=630.msg26628#msg26628 date=1236134364]
I don't know when they changed the scenarios in the actual games development but there were lots of things done differently than the first draft. FFVII got rewritten quite a few times. The story isn't necessarily locked in stone.[/quote]

Well the likelihood of them making any significant changes to the scenario once they got well into development seems unlikely to me.

And well scrapping it wouldn't be too far out there. If they wanted to do something they'd do it. I'm just saying the likelihood of DC being better is definitely higher if they'd have spent a good time doing it.

Ok then better=/= good.

Ehrgeiz wasn't developed by Squaresoft. It was just published. Dreamfactory developed that game. And all Nomura did was give new character artwork for the FFVII characters that appeared in Ehrgeiz.

Lightweight did Bushido Blade development, not Square.

However Square *did* help Lightweight in terms of Development for Bushido Blade 2.

I know all that, and Noruma is listed as character designer for the game, I don't see how that's just for the FF7 characters. If he didn't do it then who did?

But it still doesn't change the fact that Dissidia is Square's first fighting game they made from scratch by themselves. I think they could've done a good job with a shooting game if they had worked more at it.

I don't, they clearly don't have the talent for it. Japanese folks are notorious for making good fighting games though. The only good fighting game in America is MK and that's gone straight down the shitter. Yet America makes shitloads of good shooting games. Only really good TPS I can think of from a Japanese studio is Capcom's Resident Evil games.

I think it's just one of those cultural things.

 

[VivaLaValenwind]

Pretty much have to agree with everyone :/ I did enjoy the game but i guess thats cause i don't play too many shooters to know whats good or not. What pissed me off the most was the stupid plot of Hojo and the whole downloaded of memory people thing which was utter crap. Also have to say the graphics looked more like they were from early 2000 than 2005 And yes Shalua looked like a slut

 

[Purple]

No it wouldn't.

The universe could've gone without DOC. It's nothing but excessive fodder we cows have to chew on.

 

[mlazor]

SE should've add another year or two of development to this game.
I was highly dissapointed with it and left it half way.
Seriously, everything from crappy dark environments to boring story
and characters made me feel as if SE cared only about $$ and not us fans.

 

[VivaLaValenwind]

[quote author=mlazor link=topic=630.msg27688#msg27688 date=1236308093]
SE should've add another year or two of development to this game.
I was highly dissapointed with it and left it half way.
Seriously, everything from crappy dark environments to boring story
and characters made me feel as if SE cared only about $$ and not us fans.
[/quote]

So true, the money was probably the major reason for this game...in the end i actually don't think anything was resolved except that Vin doesn thave chaos in his system anymore

 

[Suzaku]

I'm still firmly of the opinion that Dirge of Cerberus is a pretty okay game, couldn't give the Japanese version anything lower than a 6.5/10, and gameplay improvements in the English version are probably enough to kick it up to a 7/10. It's got a pretty harsh learning curve, but after I got the hang of it, I was having quite a bit of fun.

Not nearly a perfect game, and it suffered from having a development team almost completely devoid of the standard Compilation staff, but it's still not terrible.


Also, Ehrgeiz? Almost every staff member who worked on the game was Dream Factory staff. Squaresoft was limited mostly to quality assurance, localization and promotion. Tetsuya Nomura was listed as character supervisor, not designer, but I'm not sure how much involvement he actually had.

Even if Nomura did design all of the original characters, which I somehow doubt, that doesn't mean the engine, gameplay, graphics, programming, or anything other real development was done by Squaresoft.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Dirge of Cerberus is essentially the red-headed step child of the Compilation that never quite fit in with the rest.

Or that weird uncle no one likes to talk about that always brings awesome gifts and foods at family get togethers, but ends up getting kicked out of the house when the alcohol is served because he always ends up touching one of the kids in ways that make you and the parents feel icky.

Every family has one sadly.

 

[Tetsujin]

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=630.msg28740#msg28740 date=1236626582]
Dirge of Cerberus is essentially the red-headed step child of the Compilation that never quite fit in with the rest.

Or that weird uncle no one likes to talk about that always brings awesome gifts and foods at family get togethers, but ends up getting kicked out of the house when the alcohol is served because he always ends up touching one of the kids in ways that make you and the parents feel icky.

Every family has one sadly.
[/quote]

Uhm. Not mine. You sure it's not just your family?

 

[Nocturne]

My god, Ive never seen someone go so far out of their way to bash a freaking game.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Then you've clearly never watched X-Play.

And it's not bashing, it's just stating the truth. DC is the blacksheep of the Compilation. It's fun, but not nearly the best of what the Compilation has to offer.

 

[Nocturne]

yeah, but going so far as to say that the game would still suck horribly even if it had more time to worked on shows blatant bias and shows going so far out of the way to bash a game, that it isnt even funny.

No one would know how it would turn out.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Oh, I take it then, you weren't responding to me, since I said that DC would've been better had they worked on it for a long time.

It just makes sense. Taking the time to make a better game and iron out bugs > rushing a game to fit into the holiday season.

 

[Max Payne]

[quote author=Nocturne link=topic=630.msg28874#msg28874 date=1236639750]
yeah, but going so far as to say that the game would still suck horribly even if it had more time to worked on shows blatant bias and shows going so far out of the way to bash a game, that it isnt even funny.


[/quote]

No it's not. Jesus christ it's a fucking opinion deal with it.

 

[Makoeyes987]

The slaughter of entire kingdoms and people were caused by opinions.

NO. We will NOT stand for opinions. Opinions are dangerous!!