Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
If Sephiroth was Vincent's or Lucrecia wasn't a willing participant, Vincent becomes very unsympathetic for not interfering. I don't think he's that passive.
Is Vincent Sephiroth's father?
- Thread starter MoonSkull
- Start date
- AKA
- The Engineer
The FF Wiki is... notorious for rampent speculation that can't get removed because there's no offical documentation that says a lot of the speculation there is wrong. I... really don't trust any of the speculation that comes from there.
One of the things that gets glossed over with Vincent is that he is a Turk. So... he can't really have a good background himself. Or a good reputation. The guy's skill set is probably something along the lines of assassination, kidnapping, etc. Lucrecia is absolutely right to call Vincent out on saying she's wrong to do what she's doing when he's the one who probably has killed people already. I mean... yeah, Vincent likes Lucrecia. But that's kinda like saying the assassin bodyguard gets a crush on their protectee while the protectee is more interested in a coworker the protectee knew already. And at the time, the coworker had a brilliant career ahead of them and didn't have a reputation of being bonkers crazy.
If Vincent was anyone else, Lucrecia wanting to stay the hell away for him makes... a lot of sense. It would be like wanting to not get too comfortable with oh... Tseng... or Rude. Trusting any of the Turks with just about anything has "bad idea" written all over it. Because everyone knows the Turks' sense of morality is... all but non-existent (which is one of the ironies of the Turks' character as a group). At most, the only thing the Turks really care about is each other. Thinking a Turk has a better sense of morality than you, a "normal" member of society (IE: not going around being a paid assassin) does? Yeah, right.
So yeah, I can understand Lucrecia wanting to get married to Hojo and do science with him. We don't see any sign Hojo is unusually crazy before they marry. And I underscore "unusually" for a reason. Sicence at Shin-Ra in general seems a lot more... lax on a lot of things we would have issues with today. And Lucrecia worked for Shin-Ra already. So she (and everyone else at Shin-Ra) probably has a more flexible idea for what "human" experiments looked like. At least... before things went really wrong...
One of the things that gets glossed over with Vincent is that he is a Turk. So... he can't really have a good background himself. Or a good reputation. The guy's skill set is probably something along the lines of assassination, kidnapping, etc. Lucrecia is absolutely right to call Vincent out on saying she's wrong to do what she's doing when he's the one who probably has killed people already. I mean... yeah, Vincent likes Lucrecia. But that's kinda like saying the assassin bodyguard gets a crush on their protectee while the protectee is more interested in a coworker the protectee knew already. And at the time, the coworker had a brilliant career ahead of them and didn't have a reputation of being bonkers crazy.
If Vincent was anyone else, Lucrecia wanting to stay the hell away for him makes... a lot of sense. It would be like wanting to not get too comfortable with oh... Tseng... or Rude. Trusting any of the Turks with just about anything has "bad idea" written all over it. Because everyone knows the Turks' sense of morality is... all but non-existent (which is one of the ironies of the Turks' character as a group). At most, the only thing the Turks really care about is each other. Thinking a Turk has a better sense of morality than you, a "normal" member of society (IE: not going around being a paid assassin) does? Yeah, right.
So yeah, I can understand Lucrecia wanting to get married to Hojo and do science with him. We don't see any sign Hojo is unusually crazy before they marry. And I underscore "unusually" for a reason. Sicence at Shin-Ra in general seems a lot more... lax on a lot of things we would have issues with today. And Lucrecia worked for Shin-Ra already. So she (and everyone else at Shin-Ra) probably has a more flexible idea for what "human" experiments looked like. At least... before things went really wrong...
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Lucrecia and Hojo did that experiment on their baby together. She doesn't get a pass for being the woman, or because she's Vincent love interest, or because she's "so sorry" later. If being infected with jenova hadn't made her too ill to function as a human being, who knows what kind of career she might have had at Shinra? She's no Aerith, that's for sure. Closer to Scarlet.
- AKA
- The Engineer
Not really? Lucrecia wasn't responsible for it. She was Grimore's student and he was just as involved with that experiment as she was. He was just the unlucky one. Her feeling bad about it is pretty understandable because it was genuinely an accident, not some experiment they were planning on doing that went wrong.
Incidentally, Grimore is working with Lucrecia on mako research stuff. Vincent is his kid. Vincent somehow went from growing up with a mako scientist dad to being a Turk. I really have to wonder how that happened... It does open up the option for Vincent being at least familear with weird mako stuff in ways other Turks might not be.
Incidently, Gast is the one overseeing this project too. So who knows what he knew about or not. He does seem to be fairly hands off, which is a whole 'nother problem...
Incidentally, Grimore is working with Lucrecia on mako research stuff. Vincent is his kid. Vincent somehow went from growing up with a mako scientist dad to being a Turk. I really have to wonder how that happened... It does open up the option for Vincent being at least familear with weird mako stuff in ways other Turks might not be.
Incidently, Gast is the one overseeing this project too. So who knows what he knew about or not. He does seem to be fairly hands off, which is a whole 'nother problem...
- AKA
- Ody
I know it was just an accident, not really her fault, but I feel like they gave her too much baggage with Vincent when it wasn't really necessary, so in some ways it seems like she just systematically ruined his life. The stuff with Grimoire is framed as the reason she keeps away from Vincent and chooses to be with Hojo, rather than just because she's dedicated to the experiment.
I guess there's another reason Vincent couldn't be the father, because Lucrecia is afraid of getting close to him. I know they had a lovely picnic together one time, but that's a far leap from sex.
I guess there's another reason Vincent couldn't be the father, because Lucrecia is afraid of getting close to him. I know they had a lovely picnic together one time, but that's a far leap from sex.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
I think it was necessary. She has to stop studying Chaos and Omega, but not because her theory is wrong or doesn't work. That requires a lab accident that makes it too dangerous to continue but not so serious that she's fired or barred from the lab, or given authorisation to pursue it.
The thing about Dirge is, a lot of those flashbacks are months or years apart. A lot happens between them.
The thing about Dirge is, a lot of those flashbacks are months or years apart. A lot happens between them.
- AKA
- The Engineer
One of the hardest things to show in video games is the passage of time... especially if (a) the models stay the same and (b) there is no "x weeks later" or something on the flashbacks. Really, the entire Compilation has the problem as all the dates are in the Ultimanias but never in the games.
And yeah... Lucrecia needs a reason to stop working on the Chaos project so she'll want to work on the Sephiroth project. I don't see how her working with Vincent's dad is anymore unbelievable of a coincidence that oh... that Gast found Ifalna somehow and she knew exactly what Jenova was and was a Cetra no less. FFVII relies on a lot of coincidences in the backstory to work (actually, Final Fantasy in general has this issue), so to me it's not any more of a problem. Or rather, it's pretty par for the course for the rest of the game.
And yeah... Lucrecia needs a reason to stop working on the Chaos project so she'll want to work on the Sephiroth project. I don't see how her working with Vincent's dad is anymore unbelievable of a coincidence that oh... that Gast found Ifalna somehow and she knew exactly what Jenova was and was a Cetra no less. FFVII relies on a lot of coincidences in the backstory to work (actually, Final Fantasy in general has this issue), so to me it's not any more of a problem. Or rather, it's pretty par for the course for the rest of the game.
To me it's not at all surprising that Lucrecia preferred Hojo to Vincent. Hojo's a flawed genius with a real understanding of science, while Vincent isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. Lucrecia's a beautiful woman, so having men fawning over her and declaring undying love probably isn't anything new. Hojo, we may assume, treated her like an intelligent equal on this project they both chose to embark on, valued her input, could talk the language of mathematics to her over dinner... And he was a young man then. TBH I can see how the prospect of life spent doing science together with Hojo would be a more exciting prospect than a life spent as Vincent's wife. No doubt Lucrecia saw herself and Hojo as the Marie and Pierre Curie of Shinra, king and queen of the science department.
@ Obsidian: it's so true that Final Fantasy backstories rely heavily on coincidences, and yet it's funny how the fans always want more in the way of coincidence - as with the 'everybody turns out to be related' trope.
@ Obsidian: it's so true that Final Fantasy backstories rely heavily on coincidences, and yet it's funny how the fans always want more in the way of coincidence - as with the 'everybody turns out to be related' trope.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
I find I usually have to ignore the Ultimania dates because they don't seem to make sense.
One notable thing about Hojo is that he read and understood Lucrecia's thesis. That would be a big deal for her.
Fandom is oddly resistant to the idea that ugly people might have sex. It's weird.
One notable thing about Hojo is that he read and understood Lucrecia's thesis. That would be a big deal for her.
Fandom is oddly resistant to the idea that ugly people might have sex. It's weird.
A lot of people seemed to be completely horrified at the prospect of Palpatine having kids, most of which seemed to be because he had facial scars, rather than because of the 'evil emperor' part.
In my youth, I dated a research scientist for exactly this reason. Thank goodness he's no Hojo, but he was considered "weird" by most people I think. Though I swear, he's really okay as a human being.
Maaaybe I can understand Lucrecia's choice after all.
I can't believe I just related to a fictional woman that I consider to have the worst possible taste in men. Please excuse me while I contain my puke.
No Sephiroths were made in the telling of my story.
Mobius Stripper
perfectly normal human worm baby
- AKA
- PunkassDiogenes
*quietly appends this to headcanon*