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Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
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Awesome episode.
Regarding Richard's comment about
The last line was certainly a shock.
Also, interesting interview with Damon here. As the URL probably indicates, there are spoilers in it.
Also also, apparently one of the POVs for the finale is
. Again: FUCK. YES.
Regarding Richard's comment about
seeing them die, I think he didn't actually see what he thinks he saw. In reality, what he probably saw was a flash of light + characters being transported back to the present.
The last line was certainly a shock.
Also, interesting interview with Damon here. As the URL probably indicates, there are spoilers in it.
Also also, apparently one of the POVs for the finale is
Jacob
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Alex
alex is dead
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- Alex, Ashes, Pennywise, Bill Weasley, Jack's Smirking Revenge, Sterling Archer
Mark Pellegrino and Titus Welliver have been cast in the finale playing Man #1 and Man#2. The casting sheet lists them as:
[JASON]
Any ethnicity, late 30s-60s. Former soldier. A leader of men. Smart but more than that – he is wise. Strong and straightforward. The words he says are always listened to and they carry gravitas. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurrings. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...
[SAMUEL]
Any ethnicity, 40s-60s. A corporate raider looking to take over his next company. Powerful, devious and obtuse. He has a cunning intellect and a strong sense of danger. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurring. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...
One of these is obviously going to be Jacob, the other leaves me clueless. I've heard several theories that these guys are playing an Off-Island vs On-Island Jacob OR that its a Younger Jacob and an Older Jacob OR that its Jacob and Esau, his twin brother of Biblical lore.
imho its obvious that we WERE meant to believe that Jason = Jacob, but in light of the most recent episode it seems likely that this was a deliberate attempt to throw us off Samuel really being the casting call for Jacob's actor.
Whatever the case, Jacob is definitely showing up in one form or another
[JASON]
Any ethnicity, late 30s-60s. Former soldier. A leader of men. Smart but more than that – he is wise. Strong and straightforward. The words he says are always listened to and they carry gravitas. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurrings. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...
[SAMUEL]
Any ethnicity, 40s-60s. A corporate raider looking to take over his next company. Powerful, devious and obtuse. He has a cunning intellect and a strong sense of danger. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurring. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...
One of these is obviously going to be Jacob, the other leaves me clueless. I've heard several theories that these guys are playing an Off-Island vs On-Island Jacob OR that its a Younger Jacob and an Older Jacob OR that its Jacob and Esau, his twin brother of Biblical lore.
imho its obvious that we WERE meant to believe that Jason = Jacob, but in light of the most recent episode it seems likely that this was a deliberate attempt to throw us off Samuel really being the casting call for Jacob's actor.
Whatever the case, Jacob is definitely showing up in one form or another
Alex
alex is dead
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- Alex, Ashes, Pennywise, Bill Weasley, Jack's Smirking Revenge, Sterling Archer
Idd, this time it feels like we were deliberately meant to believe the guy was
because the name sounds familiar (the same way that Stu Radzinsky's casting call was listed as Marty Jankowski). But after this weeks episode I'm not sure what I believe about it.
Jacob
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I don't think I ever posted this here btw, and since a Jacob-centric episode looks to be on the horizon it's probably worth mentioning it now. Some of this stuff has already been disproved (for example it's almost certain that
) but it's still worth considering.
Ben never really talked to Jacob
Crackpot theory alert, coming from the lostpedia boards.I'm sold. Note also that Matthew Fox is apparently the only cast member who knows the ending to the series. If true, this would explain why.Jack is Jacob? Of course. Here’s some (circumstantial) evidence, broken down by category, and in no particular order:
Character analysis: Jack is wiley and is playing Ben for a fool. Jack of the kidney sac bait-n-switch. Jack of the “I know the Others are coming, but I’m not going to tell you until I have a plan.” Jack of the “Ben, you’re my ally – until Locke gets here.”
Character and story analysis: Jacob almost surely is someone we know. If Jacob is just Jacob, why introduce a new and important character more than 75 percent of the way through your story? Because you don’t. We’ve already been introduced to Jacob. He was the first person we ever saw.
Character and story analysis: The man of science and the man of faith must come together to save the island. (They’re the yin and yang, after all). Think about it ... Jack and Locke have a contentious relationship. Locke has pleaded for Jack’s help throughout the series. “Jack don’t do this.” “Jack, you’re not supposed to do this.” And so forth. Isn’t it time for Jack to ask for Locke’s help? Oh wait, he already did, when he was a time-leaping phantom named Jacob (trapped in a time-shifting cabin no less).
Symbolic: Jack is the son of Christian Shepherd (a Christian shepherd?), which might suggest that he's a messianic figure. Perhaps at the end of the series Jack seemingly sacrifices his life to save his friends (and the island and the world).
Symbolic: As a messianic and mythic figure, Jack must sacrifice himself and be reborn. Once Jacob can leave the cabin, who wants to bet that an older, exhausted Jack steps out the door? Sort of like another character whose name begins with a “J” stepped out of a tomb after he was dead.
Suggestive: If you needed help, who would you enlist? Family, right? Who has Jacob enlisted? Christian and Claire Shepherd. Jack's father and half-sister. Ben even says, at one point, "What wouldn’t a father do for his son?" Why wouldn’t Christian help his time-leaping, trapped, foolish son?
Suggestive: What does Christian Shepherd hand to Jack in the webisode “The Watch.” A watch. Hmmm, time references?
Suggestive: Jacob’s eye is brown.
Jack’s eyes? Brown.
Suggestive: Jack is not on Jacob’s list.[/b] We don’t know what the list is, per se. But why put yourself on your own list?
Suggestive: Room 23 indoctrination. "Only fools are enslaved by time and space." Suggests that someone is enslaved by time and space. Most likely character? Jacob. And who has been our biggest “fool” (in that he’s tried to fix things, but has only made things worse, time and again)? Jack.
Suggestive: Jack’s tattoo. Translation, “he who walks among us, but is not one of us." What’s the one character that is among all others on the Island, but does not commune with anyone? Jacob.
Suggestive: Tattoo artist’s insight into Jack. She can peer into your soul and tell you your true identity (there's a clue there – why is she discerning Jack's "true identity" in the first place?). She refers to Jack as "a great man, a leader." Now, how does Mikhail describe his "leader" to John? He calls him a "magnificent man". Or better, there’s Ben. How does Ben describe Jacob? "The man in charge—he's a great man, John, a brilliant man."
Suggestive: Jack’s books in his office (from “A Tale of Two Cities”: Fire in the Mind: Faith and the Search for Order, Pale Horse Coming, Redemption, Valhalla Rising (in which Dirk Pitt discovers he has twin 23-year-old children raised by another – a love who he assumed was dead – if those aren't Lost themes, what are?), No Place Like Home (a Mary Higgins Clark title that plays off “The Wizard of Oz”
Of course it could all be one gigantic red herring as well, wouldn't be the first time that's happened in this seriesWhat really sells me on this, though, is the fact that
. I can't realistically imagine it being anyone else now.it would fit Jack's character arc perfectly - from being completely sceptical about anything supernatural relating to the Island, to becoming the main apparently supernatural force directing events on the Island
Max Payne
Banned
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The only way this episode could have pissed me off more is if it was the series finale.
It raised even more questions.
It raised even more questions.
It's not widmore, it's clearly the man who conversed with Jacob at the beginning of the episode, and didn't they show us that Widmore had never met Jacob?
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Oh fuck, you might be right. But I don't remember them saying Widmore had never met Jacob. Still though, in light of the convo in the front of the episode it makes more sense.
Also, this episode did definitively resolve one major question -
whatever happened definitely happened. What clinches it is that the Incident didn't actually start happening until they threw the bomb into the hole.
Max Payne
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Couple of things
If the real Jacob is visible to all, and lives in the foot, who the hell was in the cabin?
Why does impostor John have knowledge of that encounter? Leads me to believe that he's the one who was imprisoned in the cabin.
Another thing has occurred to me, I think this mystery man in question even managed to fool the island into thinking he's the real thing. For example, he was truly surprised when he learned the island told Ben to support him without question. Also, it's pretty clear that killing Jacob was "against the rules" of the island.
Another thing, why would the island bring Christian back but not Locke? I don't think it did. I think that the Christian we've been seeing is the same impostor that's been posing as John. Which is why he propelled John towards his inevitable death. Why he told Richard John would have to die. Maybe he can duplicate the properties of dead people brought to the island or something. Maybe they have to be dead before he can adopt their likeness. He strikes me as some sort of ghostly creature.
That would explain why he wasn't visible in the cabin immediately. Why Miles looked at Claire so, maybe he saw this creature swirling around her before she was abducted.
Just a thought.
Why does impostor John have knowledge of that encounter? Leads me to believe that he's the one who was imprisoned in the cabin.
Another thing has occurred to me, I think this mystery man in question even managed to fool the island into thinking he's the real thing. For example, he was truly surprised when he learned the island told Ben to support him without question. Also, it's pretty clear that killing Jacob was "against the rules" of the island.
Another thing, why would the island bring Christian back but not Locke? I don't think it did. I think that the Christian we've been seeing is the same impostor that's been posing as John. Which is why he propelled John towards his inevitable death. Why he told Richard John would have to die. Maybe he can duplicate the properties of dead people brought to the island or something. Maybe they have to be dead before he can adopt their likeness. He strikes me as some sort of ghostly creature.
That would explain why he wasn't visible in the cabin immediately. Why Miles looked at Claire so, maybe he saw this creature swirling around her before she was abducted.
Just a thought.
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Those interpretations all sound pretty damn plausible to me, though they'd also require
I was pretty disappointed with this episode after I had immediately finished watching it but the more I think about it, the more brilliant I think it is. They've completely undermined our faith in just about everything we thought we knew about the island so far, not to mention they've widened the scope of the conflict being played out massively.
Jacob's antagonist to have been able to adopt the form of dead people for years without Jacob having been known about it. Have we known when the statue was destroyed? Because whenever it was, Jacob's antagonist would have to have taken Christian's form at that point, and that's an awful damn long time for Jacob to be unaware of the loophole. It's also worth noting that Jacob doesn't look particularly nervous about the possibility of Ben killing him. Obviously he doesn't want to prevent him from exercising his free will, but why wouldn't he give Ben more information if he were truly in mortal danger? There's more to this story we haven't been told yet.
I was pretty disappointed with this episode after I had immediately finished watching it but the more I think about it, the more brilliant I think it is. They've completely undermined our faith in just about everything we thought we knew about the island so far, not to mention they've widened the scope of the conflict being played out massively.
Max Payne
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Perhaps he hadn't even learned about the loophole? That goes for both of them. Both of them seem tethered to the island. Which is why this guy needed to break the rules to kill Jacob. Maybe he couldn't stand sharing whatever power or honor the island affords them.
but the whole dead people thing didn't start till the Oceanic flight crashed. Perhaps he hadn't figured out that he could kill Jacob by using a dead person to manipulate a live person to kill him? Hell, has a dead body been brought to the island before like John and Christian were?
I really hope John, the good one, hasn't been written off yet.
but the whole dead people thing didn't start till the Oceanic flight crashed. Perhaps he hadn't figured out that he could kill Jacob by using a dead person to manipulate a live person to kill him? Hell, has a dead body been brought to the island before like John and Christian were?
I really hope John, the good one, hasn't been written off yet.
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We obviously don't know whether anything Christian told Locke is legit anymore. But my point is that when he told Locke he'd have to die, that was back when the statue was still standing, which I'm assuming was still back in ancient Egyptian times. So he's had to have had this power for a long time. Assuming Christian is really Locke puppet master guy, how would it take Jacob this long to find out his opponent can manipulate the dead? Unless he's really been brewing his plan over, well, millennia.