SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[liuliuliu]

The thing with the dream date is Aerith’s reaction doesn’t change. So doesn’t matter what Cloud says. She reaches the same conclusion.

At this point I don’t think they will “have Cloud realizes he is in love with Aerith after her death” cause bunch of players will see Tifa’s HA date. After 3 years, probably all players that actually play the game will know what happened there. Having the protagonist kissed one girl and in love with another one is generally not something Final fantasy will do.
Whether people consider this a canon date or optional, it happened for some players, and I believe the devs will make sure Cloud doesn’t look bad in all routes.

Will they have something that CA still can count for? For sure! But it mostly will be vague and can be interpreted as either platonic or romantic. I bet there will be anything serious though.

And I don’t think people take into account business factors when discussing LTD. But in reality business decisions are behind every game and they are actually the most important thing in game companies. They will affect the story feeling. Given that they release CCR (I guess they eventually will have a huge FF7 remake bundle) they probably not going to have Zack being dumpped by Aerith like some people suggested at this point

 

[Rin]

I also think they wanted to give CA a farewell/goodbye scene because they're gonna be focused on Zack and Aerith in part 3. Aerith's role in Cloud's storyline has wrapped and all she has left is her own + whatever they're doing with Zack.

 

[liuliuliu]

And I don’t remember Cloud calls Aerith mean in the costa de sol quest⛱. Is that a translation issue? Or just my brain didn’t pay enough attention.
He does turn her down a lot, but I don’t think he does it intentionally…his way of answering the swim suit question is just a classic comical reaction of a nerdy straight guy who doesn’t understand girls at all, I can see that straight coming out of a Japanese manga or light novel. And he is really cute when he agrees to ride one chocobo but he will be the one sit in the front and “driving”…this entire quest reminds me a lot of Sagara from Full metal panic! if anyone has read the novel or watched the show

 

[shady]

And I don’t remember Cloud calls Aerith mean in the costa de sol quest⛱. Is that a translation issue? Or just my brain didn’t pay enough attention.
He does turn her down a lot, but I don’t think he does it intentionally…his way of answering the swim suit question is just a classic comical reaction of a nerdy straight guy who doesn’t understand girls at all, I can see that straight coming out of a Japanese manga or light novel. And he is really cute when he agrees to ride one chocobo but he will be the one sit in the front and “driving”…this entire quest reminds me a lot of Sagara from Full metal panic! if anyone has read the novel or watched the show

Ha love me some Full Metal Panic! I get what you mean, though I would suggest Cloud isn’t as dense (or military focused!) as Sagara, but he definitely doesn’t have read of situations or reacts to them in awkward manners when he’s uncomfortable just like Sagara

 

[liuliuliu]

Ha love me some Full Metal Panic! I get what you mean, though I would suggest Cloud isn’t as dense (or military focused!) as Sagara, but he definitely doesn’t have read of situations or reacts to them in awkward manners when he’s uncomfortable just like Sagara

True. But when he says for swimsuit he prefers functional over design just in case they need to battle in water, I literally laughed and thought “is that you Sagara Sousuke sergeant”

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Just did the Aerith Costa del Sol date side quest.

They are for sure keeping the Love Triangle Debate alive and thriving

But also, aside from the quest being kinda fun and sweet, it’s also a little bit awkward? Like the rest of the party is just tagging along while Cloud and Aerith do all these things, not saying a word…

Also that line about Aerith and Cloud riding a chocobo together, like the entire quest Aerith is soo trying to make it romantic and Cloud pushes against it but also sort of goes with it.

There’s also the beginning bit where one of the swimsuit girls says Aerith looks like a girl who goes after what she wants… I honestly don’t know what to make of this quest really, it’s awkwardly written to be truthful, seems oddly placed, and just completely fuels the LTD.

Like it’s a romantic date and Cloud fully accepts riding a chocobo with Aerith so he reciprocates the romantic parts with her. But he also calls her mean?! Like I need to properly take this all in context with the rest of the game as a whole but yeah, the devs are totally playing up both girls.
And Cloud.

It’s great they’re making Aerith and Tifa such close friends. But then they do them dirty like this by just making Tifa silent and having Cloud and Aerith go on this date. I know the Gongaga stuff is coming and there’s other moments where you get Cloud and Tifa, and Cloud and Aerith, and we’re supposed to be convinced that Tifa and Aerith are just ok with both them doing this with Cloud?

There needs to be better peer review when it comes to the writing in moments like this I just feel it’s a disservice to all the characters involved. They NEED an actual woman involved in the writing here, cause yes it’s great they’re really establishing the close friendship of Aerith and Tifa, but then they selectively choose for that friendship to not be relevant to the plot where it’s convenient for CT and CA moments.

It makes Cloud look like a really bad person.

I need to finish the game for the full context I know but right now my head just hurts lol

I just did that quest and I don't think Tifa is actually there with them story wise just there mechanics wise if that makes sense. The quest has a certain area it activates and when you're not in the circle the party shows up bc you're not in the quest. Then when you go back in the quest they stay outside the circle.

It's weird how they did it. But yeah story wise it's implied it's just Cloud and Aerith running around alone there.

I think I expected Cloud to be harsher in this quest based on how it was described. The way ppl talk about it. He wasn't tho. He basically went along w it but just made it clear he isn't the ideal romantic A would date. Aerith saw it for herself but still was happy to spend time. Funny enough he seemed oblivious to Aerith's feelings and it sounds like it's Aerith who's disappointed in the date. He's just like hey we gotta do this mission. It's Aerith catching feelings from the date and she gets frustrated bc he clearly doesnt see everything that is being implied.
Also I think that song playing in this area is from the Wallmarket section where you walk w Aerith in Remake?

I took it like this the girls are meta commentary on their dynamic in OG and Aerith fans getting her personality wrong as Aerith doesnt think she's that assertive. It's actually really hard to impress her on this date and even then she seems disappointed.
While Jules quests to me seems like meta commentary on Tifa fans who really like her. Costa del Sol seemed to acknowledge misconceptions abt both girls a lot to me. Jenny repped Tifa antis.

I have to say though found it surprising it's actually Aerith who is dissing the date at the end Cloud just goes with it bc he sees it as a job to do. And calls her mean for expressing her disappointment.
Also his swimsuit and chocobo comments are a tell he is completely oblivious. He didn't think about Aerith getting conflicted by the fact he accepted they go on a date. He doesnt realize her feelings basically. Also theyre opposites he doesn't care for crab she is there wondering about seafood. She is carefree and he is a stick in the mud talking about the least dreamy things etc.

And this is what the Ultimania basically say about OG. He was clueless to her feelings. She was disappointed saw he wasn't a romantic is different from Zack but in the end she's smiling bc she enjoyed his company anyway.

I liked it overall tho. Interesting way to flesh out the characters.
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Edit bc I think I figured out the point of this quest being so weird

Yorda comments Aerith is grinning from ear to ear even though she is disappointed at the lack of romance. I think neither Cloud or Aerith deny being a couple bc it's meta commentary about how in OG that's the assumption. In fact I think this date is a metacommentary on their dynamic in OG and now Remake. With the scallop shell standing out as being a death omen. It sounded to me like Cait Sith's prediction something that sounds romantic on the surface but in the end was actually ominous.

So basically Aerith caught feelings but was conflicted that's why she isn't sure she "goes for what she wants" she never meant to be as fans see her. And Cloud was oblivious to those feelings and showed her he was different from the ideal she had of romance so she was disappointed but in the end she smiles they enjoy eachother's company anyway

I also couldn't help but notice in Tifa's quest Cloud asks her if she likes crab and both don't like it. This stood out to me as in opposition to Aerith's quest where she is talking about seafood that might taste good and wants to try and Cloud doesn't care.
Sadly I think it's commentary here that Cloud and Aerith are opposites even in tastes and pointing that CT are similar.

But overall the CA quest was imo about their dynamic and how fans perceive it vs how they Cloud and Aerith perceive it.

 

[Someonesbunny]

I think I expected Cloud to be harsher in this quest based on how it was described. The way ppl talk about it. He wasn't tho. He basically went along w it but just made it clear he isn't the ideal romantic A would date. Aerith saw it for herself but still was happy to spend time. Funny enough he seemed oblivious to Aerith's feelings and it sounds like it's Aerith who's disappointed in the date. He's just like hey we gotta do this mission. It's Aerith catching feelings from the date and she gets frustrated bc he clearly doesnt see everything that is being implied.

I actually wonder about precisely how oblivious Cloud is - he might actually just be being much kinder to her than we are expecting him to be. It feels to me like he may also have been giving her an out so she can save face (by changing the subject or just giving a positive but lukewarm answer - something about being friends, or just hanging out again, I think, I can't recall his exact responses), and not to cut ties, but preserve them.

I suppose I got to wondering because it seems that in Tifa's date, he knew exactly what she meant when she asked "... Or am I getting ahead of myself again...?" which isn't exactly a clear suggestion of what comes next, but he caught her meaning and seized the opportunity anyway. I think, in his way, he must have understood.

Or else, he really is oblivious most of the time, and then actually only uses his coconut in 2% of his social encounters.

Sidenote, in the case of obliviousness, I wonder also if he understands that people find him attractive because it usually doesn't illicit any response from him.

 

[faefolk]

I'm in The Temple of the Ancients and Aerith dancing with the staff doesn't really remind me much of the Yuna dance. However, Tifa is the one enraptured by Aerith, so she would be Tidus in this analogy lol

Cloud is starting to lose it. It's scary D:

I noticed that also re Tifa being the one who is all starry eyed. Cloud is too busy being possessed to care lol.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I actually wonder about precisely how oblivious Cloud is - he might actually just be being much kinder to her than we are expecting him to be. It feels to me like he may also have been giving her an out so she can save face (by changing the subject or just giving a positive but lukewarm answer - something about being friends, or just hanging out again, I think, I can't recall his exact responses), and not to cut ties, but preserve them.

I suppose I got to wondering because it seems that in Tifa's date, he knew exactly what she meant when she asked "... Or am I getting ahead of myself again...?" which isn't exactly a clear suggestion of what comes next, but he caught her meaning and seized the opportunity anyway. I think, in his way, he must have understood.

Or else, he really is oblivious most of the time, and then actually only uses his coconut in 2% of his social encounters.

Well according to the Ultimania both girls have feelings for Cloud but he is clueless. And that's the impression I got from his functional bathing suit answer.

Basically I think the Costa De Sol Aerith date is an entire commentary on CA's dynamic in OG and Remake. The girls comment on the assumption Aerith goes for what she wants. That's based on the impression of OG. Then we have Aerith catching feelings while Cloud either answers like a Soldier or a nerd who is clueless to the romance she wants. He is clueless to her feelings. She is disappointed but still likes him and appreciates spending time w him.

With Tifa they almost kissed before this so he got a big giant clue to help him. Though I think it does take a while for him to understand her feelings too.

 

[Axiom]

I suppose I got to wondering because it seems that in Tifa's date, he knew exactly what she meant when she asked "... Or am I getting ahead of myself again...?" which isn't exactly a clear suggestion of what comes next, but he caught her meaning and seized the opportunity anyway. I think, in his way, he must have understood.

I've always assumed this line was a callback to what happened after Tifa was swallowed by the whale. It looked like she was trying to initiate something in Cissnei's room.

Cuz Cloud asks "again?" and Tifa replies with "Yeah, again". That's when he makes his move. Unless there's a sidequest I missed, this makes the most sense.

 

[Aurenare]

Also can someone whose been following the LT since wayway waaaay back, wasn't it a lot more Clerithy early on? I just read something about "Clotis controlling the internet since 1997" and I don't think that's acaccurate.

That's a big fat lie, but accurate to Clerith's modus operandi of painting themselves as victims.

There was literally no Cloti material in the internet until Squall_of_SeeD published his famous LTD Analysis in this very forum. Previous to 2009, if you looked up anything related to Cloud and Tifa's relationship, you would only find Clerith's fansites tearing it down and dragging Tifa through the mud. I know because I remember a friend of mine wanting to write a fanfiction that featured Cloud and Tifa prominently, and wanted to base it on canon... but she couldn't find anything on the internet about it, so she enlisted my help. I couldn't find anything either.

Then Squall_of_Seed came along and all hell broke lose. Cleriths entered a panic state you can see them still being in until now. Every single propaganda tactic they are using now was developed back them to control the "damage" that article inflicted on their ship, and they have made it into an art over the years, thanks to gems like the Clerith Bible and 50 Reasons to ship Clerith. All their talking points are there, and are just actualized to fit new info/games.

These forum have been villainaized to high heaven in their bubble too, that's why you don't find many Cleriths here. This place is evil and poisonous for them, full of misinformation and vile people that only want to humiliate them.

Absolutely not unexpected that they are trying to rewrite history to fit their narrative. It IS what they do.

 

[Shadowfox]

Also can someone whose been following the LT since wayway waaaay back, wasn't it a lot more Clerithy early on? I just read something about "Clotis controlling the internet since 1997" and I don't think that's accurate.

From what I remember, after FF7 first released Clerith was the major ship and pretty much dominated in any discussions online. Cloti was relatively quiet. I know that whenever I discussed Cloti as a ship back then, a lot of people would come in to shoot it down citing "Tifa bullied him" and "I think I can meet her there."

 

[Eerie]

I've always assumed this line was a callback to what happened after Tifa was swallowed by the whale. It looked like she was trying to initiate something in Cissnei's room.

Cuz Cloud asks "again?" and Tifa replies with "Yeah, again". That's when he makes his move. Unless there's a sidequest I missed, this makes the most sense.

I think it's a reference to ToTP (there are many in this game). Tifa got to the water tower thinking he'd confess to her, but instead he told her he was going to be a SOLDIER - so she was ahead of herself.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

I've seen that and also seen them talk about the church moment and the crazy ending. The worst takes I've seen so far is that Cloud is, in fact, mentally stable and happy that Aerith is there. Huh??

The moment I saw hundreds of them in YouTube comments for a video that played the entire Sector 5 date and church scene, saying the scene was so romantic, that they were a perfect couple, and that they confessed their feelings for each other, etc. basically completely reading everything in that entire dream and church scene as 100% confirmation of their ship and that CA is endgame, is when I realised the LTD will never, ever be over.

 

[r_monk]

I think it's a reference to ToTP (there are many in this game). Tifa got to the water tower thinking he'd confess to her, but instead he told her he was going to be a SOLDIER - so she was ahead of herself.

Also thought it was Gongaga. I know some people were suggesting Cloud was about to lean in to kiss her, but it's clear that she's the one about to go for it before Yuffie interrupts (lol). Looks like she got swept up in the moment, which is why she's doubting it. I was also thinking about why she would go for a kiss after he nearly killed her (listen, I loved that whole chapter but was def like huh???), and actually, it's so in line with her character. She just had a near death experience, plus it seems like the Weapon + lifestream opened her third eye. Girl was like fuck it, YOLO . It's a nice foreshadowing to the Highwind... her instigating the night before the end of the world.

 

[r_monk]

This is starting to get really entertaining lol

 

[Axiom]

I think it's a reference to ToTP (there are many in this game). Tifa got to the water tower thinking he'd confess to her, but instead he told her he was going to be a SOLDIER - so she was ahead of herself.

That would be the water tower, right? But Cloud doesn't know that Tifa liked him way back then. I dunno if that would be obvious enough for Cloud try to kiss her.

 

[Maidenofwar]

The moment I saw hundreds of them in YouTube comments for a video that played the entire Sector 5 date and church scene, saying the scene was so romantic, that they were a perfect couple, and that they confessed their feelings for each other, etc. basically completely reading everything in that entire dream and church scene as 100% confirmation of their ship and that CA is endgame, is when I realised the LTD will never, ever be over.

Which is fine. People are allowed to enjoy it and if that's their genuine interpretation it can't be ruined for them. Nobuo Uematsu called NPTK a love song, they say they hope it becomes the new standard for love songs.

He also said he hopes it becomes a classic for love songs, and liked a comment about Aerith singing her feelings for Cloud-

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1767475620399747443

Not everyone is going to interpret everything about the scenes as negative or have an initial reaction the same, some are going to have an initial reaction of enjoying things or positive interpretation. For example some see a love song/NPTK playing in the area as romantic, now mileage may vary though I doubt devs put that in if the whole thing was meant to be entirely platonic.

People also might have different interpretations or reasoning as to the NPCs, or Aerith being sad, HA a happy sad?, or Cloud feeling unsettled, etc. There's a clue to this in key item photo also, a foreshadowing of Aerith's fate.

**

I just reached Nibelheim, and I also watched my friend play deep into the ToTA. His reaction on seeing the Aerith scene "Is she going to perform a sending? "She is she's doing a sending!"

Welcome back Dashell

 

[Hix]

Which is fine. People are allowed to enjoy it and if that's their genuine interpretation it can't be ruined for them. Nobuo Uematsu called NPTK a love song, they say they hope it becomes the new standard for love songs.

He also said he hopes it becomes a classic for love songs, and liked a comment about Aerith singing her feelings for Cloud

I don't know why you keep going back to NPTK. Surely few actually doubt that Aerith has feelings for Cloud?

NPTK can be a good old fashioned love song sung by Aerith exclusively for Cloud and that would still not change a thing (I'd argue it isn't that, if for no other reason than it's lyrics are themselves from Loveless, but say for the sake of argument it is). The crux of the LTD has never been about who loves Cloud, but rather, who does Cloud himself love.

NPTK does nothing to demonstrate that the answer to that question is Aerith and, in fact, an argument could be made that it adds weight to the answer being Tifa. If it is a love song, if it is a confession, then Cloud is thus now aware of Aerith's feelings and that makes the lack of reciprocation a quiet rejection. You may not see it that way, but Aerith certainly does by her disappointment and re-evaluation of her own feelings as a result.

Again, one must note, Cloud is not afraid to be flirty, romantic or passionate as demonstrated with Tifa - but with Aerith, if the romanticised arguments about NPTK and the Sector 5 date are to be believed, he's literally being told again and again "I love you" but shows indifference at best or outright rejection at worst.

 

[Maidenofwar]

All I'm going to say is because I appreciate it and the composer and others wanted people to enjoy it, I am showing appreciation and enjoyment for it. I'm going to keep talking about it and what's being said about it and the new comments released about it and the extra events being held sorry.

Alright so after talking in Nibelheim Aerith’s smilie went from yellow to green while Tifa's remained at yellow (I let the game auto pick answers for me and it picked the second best answers for both here), so I guess I'm doing c12 with Aerith?

If anyone's curious on my run (mandatory story only, no side quests done yet) -

*Game picked second best answer for Aerith in Kalm
*Game picked second best answer for Tifa in Under Junon
*I did well enough to raise affection in the parade for both, and got a President's commendation which impressed Tifa and deepened the relationship with her.
*In Costa Del Sol I did chocobo outfit for Cloud and got matching outfits for both girls raising affection for both
*I chose to fight with Tifa and Red
*Got Tifa in Chapter 8
*Game picked best answer for Aerith in Gongaga
*Game picked best answer for everyone in Cosmo Canyon
*Game picked second best answers in Nibelheim
*All synergy skills/abilities used with both

I think I remembered everything. I was a bit biased including talking to Tifa in Cosmo Canyon and both girls in Nibelheim (you can ignore one) but I wanted to be fair as I could possibly be and keep them both on a more or less even keel for as long as possible and this is where my personal journey took me. Just how it worked out on my run though.

 

[Eerie]

That would be the water tower, right? But Cloud doesn't know that Tifa liked him way back then. I dunno if that would be obvious enough for Cloud try to kiss her.

I mean it doesn't matter, Tifa got ahead of herself there; she thought he would confess but he didn't, so she thought her feelings were only one way (even though they weren't). Here, she thinks something might happen in the romantic context, but she feels unsure suddenly, because he talked about Aerith before and didn't talk much, maybe he didn't see that as romantic, maybe he wasn't interested in her romantically? Did she once again get ahead of herself? Which is why he basically confessed and went in for the handhold (trap), hug and kiss.

It wasn't Gongaga I think because both were leaning for that kiss. But someone who hasn't read ToTP might think about Gongaga, that's true.

 

[Rin]

One thing I like about the way the LTD is being portrayed is that Tifa isn't threatened by CA's dynamic. Other than her confused "huh?" in Kalm, Tifa does not care if she sees CA hanging out and going on a date--this is especially true in GS when they bump into her if you got Aerith the first time.

This is in direct contrast to Aerith who does get jealous and a bit petty if she sees Cloud and Tifa spending time alone together at GS. This seems like meta commentary since the fans always assumed Tifa was the jealous one (and in the OG I'd argue she was definitely portrayed to be jealous) but now it's like rain off her back.

I think this is a good change bc when CT is endgame, no one can ever say Tifa was a second choice and that she was jealous of Aerith from the start. It would be the opposite for CA, as Aerith is a bit resentful of CTs friendship (by her own admission).

 

[r_monk]

But someone who hasn't read ToTP might think about Gongaga, that's true.

Which, IMO, means it's Gongaga. I don't think the writers would lean on any player having read ToTP to make that connection. That would just be shoddy writing. TOTP is bonus material; they want to make things clear in the game, given the majority of the players haven't consumed all the extra media (which happily reinforces things for us who have).

The only scene that's even remotely romantic prior to the GS date would be that one. If you revisit the almost kiss, it's pretty clearer that she's making the gesture and leaning in more than he is. Which is why it's beautiful and fitting that he takes the initiative on the date; they're meeting each other in the middle, in a way.

 

[Eerie]

Aerith does say at least twice that she's envious of their bond so yeah. But honestly I don't think she was jealous at the GS - the talk was pretty neutral there from what I remember.

 

[Rin]

Aerith does say at least twice that she's envious of their bond so yeah. But honestly I don't think she was jealous at the GS - the talk was pretty neutral there from what I remember.

She actually says she's jealous, I'm pretty sure but let me go rewatch the scene cause maybe I'm misremembering.

EDIT: Yeah she says, "Not gonna lie, I'm a teensy bit jeaaalousss" in a teasing tone and then makes a joke about how there must be someone out there who wants to hang out with a cool girl like her to make Cloud get protective--which Tifa finds funny and giggles at.