SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Lex]

I saw that, apparently Lex is now a "toxic cloti". Sorry @Lex you're one of us now!

The false "Cloti bias" perception of TLS is @Ryushikaze 's fault (mostly) for publishing that "Love Triange Debate is Dead" article like, 15 years ago when the CC Ultimania came out lmao. I will reiterate again that the people who truly love FFVII on this website do not particularly care about the LTD when compared to the rest of the lore, and that includes me. If anything I think people are pleased to see canon preserved if only because 30 years of people screaming that none of it is real is satisfying to quash.

That and we've always supported balanced takes rather than weirdly cherry-picked developer quotes. There are a few of them that absolutely loathe me specifically because of some Twitter drama when remake leaks were happening, but also because some of the super insane ones find me deeply irritating because I don't let them get away with their bullshit here when they rear their heads in this thread. Time and again they've popped up in here, I've invited them to engage with the actual community, and, shock horror, they don't.

I also ban Cloti's so nobody can say I'm biased

 

[nars305]

Zack was never able to respond to the letters, So Aerith must have thought he forgot about her, Theres a lot of stuff there will be slight tension clearing up a misunderstanding

I understand that but I don’t see how that’s a misunderstanding that would take much time to explain. It’s not like Zack has something to hide, he was experimented on for years and then was killed.

It’s a pet peeve of mine to have misunderstandings like this that get dragged on if that is the route they take. If Zack says nothing, I would wonder why, if Aerith gets mad at him for it, I would wonder why.

That is UNLESS Aerith doesn’t believe Zack’s story about him dying, because obviously he’d be “alive” talking to her. I’m not sure what the Aerith in his world knows and doesn’t know.

 

[Hellenic]

What I found interesting with Tifa's sidequests and overall interactions is that they ground Cloud. They give him a hold of himself; they chat about food (the ones she'll make him in the future ), about their memories as kids. I feel very much that sense of him relying on those moments to believe that he is "Cloud of Nibelheim", that he very much needs those to continue to believe in himself.

I really enjoyed that they bounced off of each other for some very natural conversations in these. In contrast with Aerith, it's usually her who is the conversation starter and Cloud kinda follows reactively more than anything and their conversations just don't flow as well.

 

[A-to-Z]

I think it’s very clear to me that OmniAerith isn’t all-knowing; keep in mind the Stamp of the dream date is different from the world in which Zack first appeared. It’s possible that Zack is still dead in the continuity of the dream date world. I think OmniAerith (the one already in the lifestream before ours died) hasn’t reunited with Zack yet (or couldn’t). And yes the Marlene scene to me was a clear plot device/setup as something ZA will eventually address. I think what a lot of extremist CA shippers miss is that ZA has a solid established foundation way before Aerith’s crush on Cloud or vice versa. Zack has always been the man she Loved (past tense because he died and/or was in a tube for years, but besides that in her words Zack gave NO REASON for her to stop loving him), while Cloud at this point in the story is only the man she likes but also likes in an ambiguous way (even after all their time spent together). So for me it’s not awkward for Aerith to go back to Zack when they reunite, he’s the one she dated for 1 and a half years, he’s the one she wrote 89 letters for, he’s the one she waited 4 years for. Especially if we assume from her confessions to Cloud that her feelings for the blonde boy have already been resolved and rightfully addressed.

Aerith’s relationship with Zack has always been undoubtedly romantic, which is why their reunion will inevitably have romantic implications as well. Maybe I have my shipping goggles on, but I think some of the fandom is underestimating Zerith. Keep in mind no one ever expected TWO canon ships, but that’s what the devs gave us, and in comparison to Cloti, this pair is notorious for the PDA, outwardly pining, lovey-dovey extrovert vibes.

 

[nars305]

Aerith’s relationship with Zack has always been undoubtedly romantic, which is why their reunion will inevitably have romantic implications as well. Maybe I have my shipping goggles on, but I think some of the fandom is underestimating Zerith. Keep in mind no one ever expected TWO canon ships, but that’s what the devs gave us, and in comparison to Cloti, this pair is notorious for the PDA, outwardly pining, lovey-dovey extrovert vibes.

It’s hard for me to remove the image of them walking back into the lifestream together in AC.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

But really the final nail in the coffin is the very end of Rebirth, outside of the Tiny Bronco. It's a nice callback to their first farewell in Remake (but again telling that their dynamic after 24 hrs together vs. a couple of weeks together is the same), but also the most nakama-coded goodbye possible? It's literally 'You take care of Sephiroth, and I'll take care of Meteor. Seeya later, pal.' I mean Orpheus and Eurydice this is not, lol.

you nail again what i want to say that goodbye scene they no matter how creepy it is too me its like "Goodbye buddy ~ I'll see you around.." no emotional hug or romantic segments just two people saying goodbye but there is sadness lingers there with song on background

two reasons for it is because Cloud's state of mind he refuses to accept Aerith dies just like Zack and players know she's not coming back

I saw that, apparently Lex is now a "toxic cloti". Sorry @Lex you're one of us now!

OMG I SAW that post it was ridiculous

There were nasty C/A i refuses to engage but I welcome all input to those genuine fans as they take mine too~ lmao they should try to ssee the group page of FF7 Rebirth / Remake how toxic they are~

My belief is if the creators didn’t want me to believe in Cloud and Tifa then they should stop beating me over the head about the promise they made to each other and how they’ve had crushes on each other.

They should have return Cloud's true self even before Remake so he can focus on untangling his inner feelings for Tifa and he can focus on himself and possible romance on another lady~ they instead put connection to Cloti even deeper with Tifa still in the middle and Cloud's true self connection

Still doesn't change the fact you can't be angry at a customer for doing what they want with their "gift"... I really think they failed their dialogue here.

I'm not sure the point of that convo there actually ~ but I think that scenario was meant for Aerith to be on Tifa's side.. "you cannot re-gift you receive from a woman.." kinda thing but yeah overall its a failed dialogue.

I want to see Zack and Aerith kiss passionately just so the extreme Cleriths can lose their minds. Sorry not sorry.

I WANT THEM TO HUG AND KISS ~ "I'm finally found you.. I'll never let you go again"

I think it’s very clear to me that OmniAerith isn’t all-knowing;

SORRY I'M SLOW who is OmniAerith?? can you remind me?? thankie sorry~

 

[Sacky]

The false "Cloti bias" perception of TLS is @Ryushikaze 's fault (mostly) for publishing that "Love Triange Debate is Dead" article like, 15 years ago when the CC Ultimania came out lmao. I will reiterate again that the people who truly love FFVII on this website do not particularly care about the LTD when compared to the rest of the lore, and that includes me. If anything I think people are pleased to see canon preserved if only because 30 years of people screaming that none of it is real is satisfying to quash.

That and we've always supported balanced takes rather than weirdly cherry-picked developer quotes. There are a few of them that absolutely loathe me specifically because of some Twitter drama when remake leaks were happening, but also because some of the super insane ones find me deeply irritating because I don't let them get away with their bullshit here when they rear their heads in this thread. Time and again they've popped up in here, I've invited them to engage with the actual community, and, shock horror, they don't.

I also ban Cloti's so nobody can say I'm biased

idk sounds like something a toxic biased cloti would say hmmmm XD

 

[Sacky]

I understand that but I don’t see how that’s a misunderstanding that would take much time to explain. It’s not like Zack has something to hide, he was experimented on for years and then was killed.

It’s a pet peeve of mine to have misunderstandings like this that get dragged on if that is the route they take. If Zack says nothing, I would wonder why, if Aerith gets mad at him for it, I would wonder why.

That is UNLESS Aerith doesn’t believe Zack’s story about him dying, because obviously he’d be “alive” talking to her. I’m not sure what the Aerith in his world knows and doesn’t know.

i think it will be a tearful reunion that wont be dragged on i dont expect any angst unless Zack brings up something about Cloud which he might but then we see what Aeriths answer is and both Zeriths and Cleriths wait in aniticpation for her answer XD

 

[Sacky]

Im surprised so many people who don't come here keep saying this LTD section on this website is super toxic when its the most chill place to speak about it on the internet. There must be some past experience from the old conversations, which to be fair reading back on them there was some weird ones XD i don't think people realise how tame it is here now, I would actually say Spoiler general is where the arguments are now

 

[Hellenic]

it seems if you think Aerith died and Cloud is blocking his memory of it, you get called a toxic Cloti

No way? It can't be just that right? Tell me it's not just that.

 

[Stiggie]

I understand that but I don’t see how that’s a misunderstanding that would take much time to explain. It’s not like Zack has something to hide, he was experimented on for years and then was killed.

It’s a pet peeve of mine to have misunderstandings like this that get dragged on if that is the route they take. If Zack says nothing, I would wonder why, if Aerith gets mad at him for it, I would wonder why.

That is UNLESS Aerith doesn’t believe Zack’s story about him dying, because obviously he’d be “alive” talking to her. I’m not sure what the Aerith in his world knows and doesn’t know.

I don't think the tension would be about why he was gone, that's irrelevant, but simply how you pick up the pieces if you've not seen each other for 5 years. Think "cast away".

That having been said, I cant imagine it taking long for Zack to crack a joke that Cloud would never do, and break through Aeriths uncertainty.

Really, I can just already see it. Aerith, for once truly taken aback from him being there in front of her, reverts back to that shy 16 yo for a few seconds, Zack, noticing the discomfort, smiles and says something like "I would've come sooner, but I didn't know what to wear".
Aerith, giggling despite of herself: "oh, and this is what you chose? I got all dressed up for our next date and you wear your soldier outfit?"
Zack: "had to, a birdie told me you're into that kinda thing".
Aerith: "well, I think its what's inside that counts". Zack: "well....I'm inside! You like?"
Aerith....smiles: "...yeah, I do like....very very much".

All part 3 needs to end this debate once and for all from that side is 10 seconds that show Zack instantly pulling Aerith back into that same back and forth energy that Cloud absolutely refused to give her.

 

[Sacky]

No way? It can't be just that right? Tell me it's not just that.

If you think Aerith died you are a Toxic Cloti sorry to say no other reason to think she died and isn't alive in another timeline because that won't change anything about the theme of life death and acceptance

 

[nars305]

I don't think the tension would be about why he was gone, that's irrelevant, but simply how you pick up the pieces if you've not seen each other for 5 years. Think "cast away".

That having been said, I cant imagine it taking long for Zack to crack a joke that Cloud would never do, and break through Aeriths uncertainty.

Really, I can just already see it. Aerith, for once truly taken aback from him being there in front of her, reverts back to that shy 16 yo for a few seconds, Zack, noticing the discomfort, smiles and says something like "I would've come sooner, but I didn't know what to wear".
Aerith, giggling despite of herself: "oh, and this is what you chose? I got all dressed up for our next date and you wear your soldier outfit?"
Zack: "had to, a birdie told me you're into that kinda thing".
Aerith: "well, I think its what's inside that counts". Zack: "well....I'm inside! You like?"
Aerith....smiles: "...yeah, I do like....very very much".

All part 3 needs to end this debate once and for all from that side is 10 seconds that show Zack instantly pulling Aerith back into that same back and forth energy that Cloud absolutely refused to give her.

That makes sense, I see what you mean. I don’t imagine they’d run into each other’s arms. I guess I can also understand that maybe the fact that Aerith did have complicated feelings for Cloud could give her a bit of a hang up. That and the uncertainty of the situation they are in, if it’s real, will he just disappear because he is actually dead, etc.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Zack was never able to respond to the letters, So Aerith must have thought he forgot about her, Theres a lot of stuff there will be slight tension clearing up a misunderstanding

this is in OG though in crisis core we know she have an 'idea he must have died' but it either she's in denial or never understood? but even in TOTP aerith can sense death already soo she must have an idea he passed~ it also gave us a hint in Rebirth when she speaks to his parents as they 'missed him' she felt really guilty staying there

hence why she's clingling soo much with spending time with everyone. his actions to Cloud is like build up of regrets she have with Zack - can you imagine her regret thinking that phone call of meeting each other will be the last time she's see him again.

but still with no closure and didnt know what happened she can't move forward ~

If you think Aerith died you are a Toxic Cloti sorry to say no other reason to think she died and isn't alive in another timeline because that won't change anything about the theme of life death and acceptance

been called many times lmao they can name it whatever they want

 

[thetriplerhyme]

The sad thing is in the past I've been blocked by some for acknowledging ZA canon, even though I personally thought SE intended all three pairs to have romantic implications, like even though Aerith has been my favourite from OG, my all time favourite VG character from one of my first games, with a very big personal impact on me, and I liked CA from then, I got blocked for saying ZA was canon and dated in CC.

BTW its opposite for me though Aerith has a bad take on me in OG it took crisis core for me to understand her confusion
Remake did it better but Rebirth i'd say 50/50 --> but I love his childish side especially with Yuffie and Tifa.

- I'm a super Cloti yeah but I remove shipping googles when needed hopefully you can feel you're welcome here~

sorry for doubleposting ~

 

[LNK]

I do agree that Zack should be getting more help from her. The optimist in me is saying they didn’t do this because they didn’t want the spotlight to be taken away from Cloud and Aerith who will have their last genuine interaction in this game. And they’ll be able to focus on the Zack side of things in Part 3 without having to worry about Cloud and Aerith anymore. Aside from his acceptance that she is gone.

I'm in the same boat as you. I think pt 3 is set up for Aerith/Zack having more involvement with each other. Rebirth was not meant for that. Especially since Aerith wasn't dead yet

 

[LNK]

Looks like there are people on Twitter accusing Shinra Archeology Department of being the same people who run TLS, who are “toxic Clotis”.

God, this is…. really something.

Bahahahaha that's hilarious, in such a sad way

 

[GamerSkull]

I'm in the same boat as you. I think pt 3 is set up for Aerith/Zack having more involvement with each other. Rebirth was not meant for that. Especially since Aerith wasn't dead yet

Yeah, now that she’s no longer with the main party, there is much more room to develop any Zerith they plan to do, which they definitely will.

 

[GamerSkull]

I want to pose a question for curiousity’s sake.

How many non-shippers walked away from OG FF7 understanding the CT was pushed and canon by the end? Is this percentage a large one?

I only ask because I see such a large amount of people that seem to claim otherwise or just think it’s neutral.

 

[nars305]

Yeah, now that she’s no longer with the main party, there is much more room to develop any Zerith they plan to do, which they definitely will.

I kind of feel like they have to, otherwise, what really is the purpose of bringing him back lol? Let’s hope it doesn’t turn into a #justiceforzack situation.

I want to pose a question for curiousity’s sake.

How many non-shippers walked away from OG FF7 understanding the CT was pushed and canon by the end? Is this percentage a large one?

I only ask because I see such a large amount of people that seem to claim otherwise or just think it’s neutral.

I’ll speak for my husband who couldn’t care less about shipping, is a huge fan, and played OG when he was a kid.

His thought is it’s a game where you can pick Cloud’s love interest, but Cloud ends up with Tifa. Nothing more, nothing less lmao.

 

[LNK]

I want to pose a question for curiousity’s sake.

How many non-shippers walked away from OG FF7 understanding the CT was pushed and canon by the end? Is this percentage a large one?

I only ask because I see such a large amount of people that seem to claim otherwise or just think it’s neutral.

I played the game for the first time in 2001 (I was 17). I finished the game thinking Cloud/Tifa went on to be in a relationship. Seemed pretty simple to me

Yeah, now that she’s no longer with the main party, there is much more room to develop any Zerith they plan to do, which they definitely will.

Right? We'll get potentially get two things we never got in the original. Aerith and Zack will finally have closure around him "not returning," and the dead characters (Aerith and Zack included) helping us in the final battle

 

[LNK]

Let’s hope it doesn’t turn into a #justiceforzack situation.

I highly doubt it. Having Zack come back to life and taking over Cloud's spot goes so much against what the devs have consistently said what they're doing. Those fans are simply way of the mark

 

[GamerSkull]

I just have to wonder if I'm legitimately seeing this wrong. Did the devs give CT a kiss for no reason? Is Part 3 really gonna be more about a Clerith reunion?

I feel the LTD is over for me, but when I see some of the takes on Twitter. I start to wonder if maybe my perception is wrong. I'm pretty confident it isn't though. So I'm wondering if others had a similar takeaway for OG FF7 when they first played it.

 

[nars305]

Speaking of Zack again. I kind of touched on this earlier, but in the game there’s not much time for Zack and Cloud to have a true reunion. That and no time to see what Cloud thinks of fighting with Zack, or just seeing him alive again.

I wonder if in the next game we’ll similarly fight alongside Aerith and Zack, and what would that mean for Advent Children? It’s kind of hard to see AC remain canon if Cloud is able to not just come to terms with their deaths, but maybe even have proper goodbyes.

 

[GamerSkull]

Speaking of Zack again. I kind of touched on this earlier, but in the game there’s not much time for Zack and Cloud to have a true reunion. That and no time to see what Cloud thinks of fighting with Zack, or just seeing him alive again.

I wonder if in the next game we’ll similarly fight alongside Aerith and Zack, and what would that mean for Advent Children? It’s kind of hard to see AC remain canon if Cloud is able to not just come to terms with their deaths, but maybe even have proper goodbyes.

I think that's still possible. He can accept their deaths and feel fine, only for it all to return when he is unable to help Denzel. Mental health is not simple. One moment you can be fine, and the next you can regress if something triggers it again.