SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Gym Leader Devil]

Btw Silver, I hope you read that as the gentle ribbing I intended it as rather than as an attack. I sometimes forget how hard it can be to get exact tone across without voice.

 

[SilverSisu]

Btw Silver, I hope you read that as the gentle ribbing I intended it as rather than as an attack. I sometimes forget how hard it can be to get exact tone across without voice.

Don't worry. I have developed tough skin during the past few months. That ribbing was nowhere near the worst that i have faced so it's all good bro.

 

[imach0c0]

Regarding the dream date, when Aerith and Cloud talk about making more memories, in JP, Cloud says:
"Yes, because we are friends" (HA)
"Yes, of course" (LA)

From Cloud's POV, do you think this is open to interpretation regarding the type of feelings he has for Aerith OR does Cloud just see her as a friend in both versions?

 

[abzy1200]

“First off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same. I don’t really intend to go into my views on love or marriage or family. After ACC, I guess Denzel and Marlene could help them work it out. Maybe things would have gone well with Aerith…”

- Nojima, Advent Children interview

The problem with using this quote as proof of either neutrality or Clerith, is that you have to ignore arguably the most relevant piece of information in it, which is Nojima basically telling us he wrote Case of Tifa through his views of love, marriage, and family.

Even if we ignore that, if you want to take the bit at the end about Aerith meaning that Cloud could have had a successful relationship with Aerith, you have to assume that the quote is talking about romantic relationships in the first place, since if it isn't, then why is it that you instantly assume that "things" regarding Cloud and Tifa isn't about a romantic relationship, but that "things" in regards to Aerith immediately does?

and fyi, said "things" that aren't going well is something that is resolved during Advent Children, so no, Cloud and Tifa are not in a dysfunctional, uncompatible relationship, Cloud was depressed, that's it.

It wasn't a fault of Cloud or Tifa themselves or their "compatibility", but mental anguish that made it so Cloud couldn't move on with his life.

EDIT: This is sort of a side note, but you also have to ignore that Barret and Cid talk about Cloud and Tifa in the context of a relationship. I know that the implication on Cid's part about "wearing the pants" is only a localization, the more accurate translation doesn't carry nearly the same implication, but it can't be ignored that talking about Cloud and Tifa obviously got Barret thinking about relationships since the very next thing he says after Cid's implication is;

"How's Shera?"

to which Cid replies;

"Eh, she's the same."

Another Edit, sorry: Yes, Barret is a third party and doesn't have the final say on Cloud and Tifa's relationship status, but if anyone in Final Fantasy 7 would know, it would be Barret, he has unarguably spent the most time with them out of anyone in AVALANCE. If anyone knows, it's the guy who traveled with them post Final Fantasy 7 and built what is described as Cloud and Tifa's "home" at the exclusion of himself.

 

[Rin]

Regarding the dream date, when Aerith and Cloud talk about making more memories, in JP, Cloud says:
"Yes, because we are friends" (HA)
"Yes, of course" (LA)

From Cloud's POV, do you think this is open to interpretation regarding the type of feelings he has for Aerith OR does Cloud just see her as a friend in both versions?

Personally, no, I don't see it as being open to interpretation since Aerith's response doesn't change either way.

 

[Yoru]

The problem with using this quote as proof of either neutrality or Clerith, is that you have to ignore arguably the most relevant piece of information in it, which is Nojima basically telling us he wrote Case of Tifa through his views of love, marriage, and family.

Even if we ignore that, if you want to take the bit at the end about Aerith meaning that Cloud could have had a successful relationship with Aerith, you have to assume that the quote is talking about romantic relationships in the first place, since if it isn't, then why is it that you instantly assume that "things" regarding Cloud and Tifa isn't about a romantic relationship, but that "things" in regards to Aerith immediately does?

and fyi, said "things" that aren't going well is something that is resolved during Advent Children, so no, Cloud and Tifa are not in a dysfunctional, uncompatible relationship, Cloud was depressed, that's it.

It wasn't a fault of Cloud or Tifa themselves or their "compatibility", but mental anguish that made it so Cloud couldn't move on with his life.

EDIT: This is sort of a side note, but you also have to ignore that Barret and Cid talk about Cloud and Tifa in the context of a relationship. I know that the implication on Cid's part about "wearing the pants" is only a localization, the more accurate translation doesn't carry nearly the same implication, but it can't be ignored that talking about Cloud and Tifa obviously got Barret thinking about relationships since the very next thing he says after Cid's implication is;

"How's Shera?"

to which Cid replies;

"Eh, she's the same."

And just a reminder that Cloud left the house for maybe 2 weeks max in AC.

We're not talking about years like some of the Cult is spreading it online.

Married life is not only flowers and rainbows.

Tifa keeps calling him on the phone for his work, and he's listening to it. Not really the image of people who can't stand each other anymore. -

 

[abzy1200]

And just a reminder that Cloud left the house for maybe 2 weeks max in AC.

We're not talking about years like some of the Cult is spreading it online.

Married life is not only flowers and rainbows.

Couldn't agree more, you would never be able to find a couple who never went through even one rough patch.

Him leaving for the Church is even less proof of Clerith when it's beaten into your skull that him moping about there is a bad thing that is away from what makes him happy; his family.

 

[Rin]

Couldn't agree more, you would never be able to find a couple who never went through even one rough patch.

Him leaving for the Church is even less proof of Clerith when it's beaten into your skull that him moping about there is a bad thing that is away from what makes him happy; his family.

Plus people ignore that the church symbolizes both Zack and Aerith, not just Aerith herself. There's a reason Zack is always depicted there after all.

 

[abzy1200]

Plus people ignore that the church symbolizes both Zack and Aerith, not just Aerith herself. There's a reason Zack is always depicted there after all.

It's even at the end of film lmao.

Tifa keeps calling him on the phone for his work, and he's listening to it. Not really the image of people who can't stand each other anymore. -

Especially when you* take into consideration that when Marlene says that she wants to see Cloud, "Tifa couldn't help but smile, since it reflected what she felt in her own heart"

EDIT: left out the "you."

 

[Rin]

It's even at the end of film lmao.

Exactly and Cloud moves Zack's sword there because of it lol

 

[SilverSisu]

Why a male character who is charming and lady's man, but also very devoted to one woman is being hated as womanizer lol.

I know you weren't talking only about Zack but this is really interesting topic.

It's funny that many think that Zack was just somekind of a player and ladiesman when he wasn't. Sure he had a temporary crush on Cissnei but that was before he met Aerith. After Zack had met Aerith there was room for only one woman in his life.

I bet this misconception stems from non canon maiden who travels the planet novel that not only contradicts the story but also makes Aerith and Zack behave out of character.

Zack was never that slick player the maiden depicted him as and Aerith seemed cold and mean towards Zack.

 

[imach0c0]

Personally, no, I don't see it as being open to interpretation since Aerith's response doesn't change either way.

What do you make of Cloud's actions in the date? When Aerith holds his hand, he goes along with it. And when he spots the photographer, he points and smiles.

On a side note, I wonder if this was the real cloud peaking through. There are times when his facial expressions looked childlike and innocent

 

[Yoru]

It's even at the end of film lmao.


Especially when you* take into consideration that when Marlene says that she wants to see Cloud, "Tifa couldn't help but smile, since it reflected what she felt in her own heart"

EDIT: left out the "you."

The movie has never been that deep lmao.

Their whole adventure comes back into Cloud's teeth once he's settled down after two years of rebuilding Midgar and his life. Cloud is going through a rough patch and isolating himself from others (like a certain Cloud as a child... probably a coincidence).

His family misses him (this is pretty much the only dialogues Tifa, Marlene and Denzel have).

And just when said family is in real danger, he gets back on his motorcycle to bust some ass.

Aerith and Zack come to the rescue. The message being that they're always with them. The people you love will always be in your heart.

Everyone's healed and life goes on. Cloud can finally enjoy life to the full without any qualms.

 

[Hellenic]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1782986228306202658

I came across these predictions. What do you think?

Personally, I see some interesting points, but also some that I hate and find really poor.

I really hope the dev team is convinced in their own vision and don't look too much on the internet lol.

That sounds way too fanficcy for my taste.

 

[abzy1200]

Exactly and Cloud moves Zack's sword there because of it lol

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's also nothing official that really concretely tells us that Cloud spent any more time at the Church than he did at Zack's grave.

I know you weren't talking only about Zack but this is really interesting topic.

It's funny that many think that Zack was just somekind of a player and ladiesman when he wasn't. Sure he had a temporary crush on Cissnei but that was before he met Aerith. After Zack had met Aerith there was room for only one woman in his life.

I bet this misconception stems from non canon maiden who travels the planet novel that not only contradicts the story but also makes Aerith and Zack behave out of character.

Zack was never confident player the maiden depicted him and Aerith seemed cold and mean towards Zack.

I don't know how anyone can claim Zack is just some playboy, he literally died just trying to see her face again.

He's right next to Tifa on the podium for "most loyal lover."

 

[Yoru]

That sounds way too fanficcy for my taste.

Yes. I hate the whole "it was all a dream" and "they're all kissing and leaving in the light with some cheesy 90s rock music"

 

[Rin]

What do you make of Cloud's actions in the date? When Aerith holds his hand, he goes along with it. And when he spots the photographer, he points and smiles.

On a side note, I wonder if this was the real cloud peaking through. There are times when his facial expressions looked childlike and innocent

I think he was having fun! People kept talking about the end of the world, Aerith was sad, and he's not completely emotionally unintelligent so he wanted to cheer her up. We also just spent an entire game taking pictures of the landscape, people, the sky, etc. via Cloud and building up his interest in photography. He got excited to see a photographer and thought it could be fun for them.

Also, Cloud always lets Aerith drag him along, so it's not like that was the first time she's grabbed his hand. It wasn't anything new or out of the ordinary for their relationship.

Overall, he was definitely having fun with her and I do think it was the real Cloud in that moment tbh, which is perhaps why when he calls her a friend or doesn't think much of spending time with her again, she comes to realize that even the real Cloud doesn't see her romantically.

 

[Yoru]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's also nothing official that really concretely tells us that Cloud spent any more time at the Church than he did at Zack's grave.

That's literally the place he goes to sleep lmao.

Bro wakes up. Go to work all day (reminder he's a uber), stops at Zack's grave to mourn. Come back to the church to sleep. Repeat

 

[SilverSisu]

I don't know how anyone can claim Zack is just some playboy, he literally died just trying to see her face again.

He's right next to Tifa on the podium for "most loyal lover."

Agreed 100%

And even when he heard that Aerith has feelings for Cloud he is still doing everything he can so that he can save both Aerith and Cloud. Zack is not only a loyal boyfriend but also an exceptional friend.

I blame maiden who travels the planet novel. There are many Clerith shippers who love to bring that up.

 

[GamerSkull]

Doesn’t Maiden contradict the fact that it was Zack’s idea to sell flowers? And doesn’t it have a different first meeting for them too?

If so, it’s hard to really accept it as canon.

 

[Yoru]

Doesn’t Maiden contradict the fact that it was Zack’s idea to sell flowers? And doesn’t it have a different first meeting for them too?

If so, it’s hard to really accept it as canon.

Nojima nearly retconned all of it with Crisis Core. So no. It's an official work (Square Enix paid for it) but it's not canon.

That's literally how it is categorized in one of the Ultimanias. It's not in the official Canon list.

 

[imach0c0]

How do you all interpret NPTK?

I believe Nojima stated that its a song from Aerith's POV talking about all the people in her life that she loves. However, there are some people in the fandom that are convinced that NPTK is about Aerith to Cloud. Why is that? Does anyone see it that way?

 

[Rin]

How do you all interpret NPTK?

I believe Nojima stated that its a song from Aerith's POV talking about all the people in her life that she loves. However, there are some people in the fandom that are convinced that NPTK is about Aerith to Cloud. Why is that? Does anyone see it that way?

There was some discussion here about it a while back before the dev comments. Some people chose to see it as C/A, others as Aeriths feelings for both men, and others as Aeriths feelings for all her loved ones. Since the dev comments I think mostly everyone here has just accepted it's about what Nojima says it's about.

 

[SilverSisu]

How do you all interpret NPTK?

I believe Nojima stated that its a song from Aerith's POV talking about all the people in her life that she loves. However, there are some people in the fandom that are convinced that NPTK is about Aerith to Cloud. Why is that? Does anyone see it that way?

NPTK is Aerith's song for everyone she loves and cherishes. Zack, Cloud, Tifa, Barret etc...

Uematsu himself stated this so this doesn't leave any room for interpretations.

It was Zack who promised Aerith that he was going to show her the sky and fill the slums with flowers. Cloud never made any promises.

And like the lyrics stated

"Till the day that we meet again
Where or when?
I wish I could say
But believe know that you'll find me
Promises to keep, we won't ever need"

I challenge anyone to prove me that this section isn't about Zack.

That section doesn't fit Cloud at all.

 

[abzy1200]

Nojima nearly retconned all of it with Crisis Core. So no. It's an official work (Square Enix paid for it) but it's not canon.

That's literally how it is categorized in one of the Ultimanias. It's not in the official Canon list.

Speaking of supposedly inaccurate "official" material, I was dealing with a particularly difficult Clerith that would not back down on the strategy guide written by Doug Walsh for Dirge of Cerberus that is published "officially" by Square Enix, which claims that Cloud and Tifa are longtime friends, but it also claims that Tifa opened an orphanage.

So I'm just wondering, is this "orphanage" she supposedly opened ever elaborated upon? Like ever? Is it ever brought up again? Is it even referenced on a social media account of theirs even once over the course of 18 years?

How do you all interpret NPTK?

I believe Nojima stated that its a song from Aerith's POV talking about all the people in her life that she loves. However, there are some people in the fandom that are convinced that NPTK is about Aerith to Cloud. Why is that?

English localisation of the song makes it sound more about Cloud than it actually is.

They also have nothing else to latch onto, they're scraping at crumbs.