SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Eerie]

The Northern Crater is I think for us all and many others one of the most anticipated set pieces for Part 3.

Oh trust me, this is right there on the top of my waiting list with the LS scene lol.

Apparently I need to like the ship in order to think it's canon.

Yeah that's quite a recent trend I think in fandom, it's all very strange to me because when you watch a new anime that can span over the years (or read manga... same deal), your ship will not be canon before eons lol. Same with TV shows etc. And if I enjoy them, I'm not going to wait for years to ship them.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Natsuki Takaya, the author of Fruit Basket, ships Clerith. She draw few Clerith fanarts on her Twitter account. You give me the reason why that it does sound very intentional she doesnt root to childhood memory of the first love revealation to be endgame because she doesnt ship Cloti. Or maybe she feels the game also misleaded her, thus she wants to mislead her reader half way too.

I drop Fruit Basket because it's boring to me, sorry, so I dont remember the rest. At first, I love the premise about the characters being the animal of Chinese Lunar Year, so I see the fantasy potential plot in it. I dont like pure romance lol. But I remember I ship Kyo with Tohru because Kyo is like an outcast since cat doesnt exist. and I dont like the way Yuki is kinda bullying him as a loser, and usually shoujo will let the girl fell with this 'bad boy' type. Since I love tragedy, the ship that stuck in my head is Tohru's parents lol.

NOTE: When I talk about Japanese titles of anime such as Fruit Basket, Naruto, Bleach, etc; it's all the manga. I'm manga reader, not anime watcher.

I see. I'm not sure there's enough information to conclude that. For years I didn't even know that she shipped CA at all. Honestly until you told me. It could be but I don't know how she feels about canon.
I just know I always felt the way there was a bait and switch with Yuki and Tohru for the end game to be Kyo reminds me of my experience with the FF7 LTD and this and the Naruto LTD too is an example I always use to explain LTDs that have one couple pushed despite endgame being another. It's just something I noticed authors tend to do especially in manga. I personally don't know why they do it. It could be because they want to prolong the suspense for an ongoing manga. Or maybe they think it makes things interesting?

I don't know.

Yuki is the School Council president by the end. He's a nerd. Definitely not a bad boy lol. I love his character development with Kyo there's a reason they hated eachother but by the end I really appreciate their relationship.

 

[Skilganon]

I just know I always felt the way there was a bait and switch with Yuki and Tohru for the end game to be Kyo reminds me of my experience with the FF7 LTD and this and the Naruto LTD too is an example I always use to explain LTDs that have one couple pushed despite endgame being another. It's just something I noticed authors tend to do especially in manga. I personally don't know why they do it. It could be because they want to prologue the suspense for an ongoing manga. Or maybe they think it makes things interesting?

It gets weirder when the story in question is a Remake/reimagining. It introduces a new kind of suspense, because whatever ending the Remake has, it's going to be seen as the definitive version of the story.

It's already happening with the EC date shenanigans. None of those date events happened in Remake or OG. How canon is it? Does it affect the direction of the Remake series?

There's only so many times SE can run through the story of FFVII before people get tired of it.

 

[lyingbanana]

To bring this point back to the topic at hand, I think that even if part 3 has both the Lifestream scene and the Highwind scene, and they are true to their original incarnations, I think that some of our friends on the other side of the debate will not make peace with these outcomes. They will continue to fight the good fight.

I fully believe that even if the third part is extremely explicit CT and it still ends with "I think I can meet her there" then the bad faith takes will continue forever.

Not saying they should change the line more that some people really dont care about the story.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

It gets weirder when the story in question is a Remake/reimagining. It introduces a new kind of suspense, because whatever ending the Remake has, it's going to be seen as the definitive version of the story.

It's already happening with the EC date shenanigans. None of those date events happened in Remake or OG. How canon is it? Does it affect the direction of the Remake series?

There's only so many times SE can run through the story of FFVII before people get tired of it.

Mm. Considering gachas are just to make money I wouldn't personally think too much about it in terms of canon. I would see it as a treat for the fans but not really as any end all be all.

I think with manga since it's the primary source usually, I would think they have more weight for canon than a spin off game for fanservice. Same with the actual game I would think it has more weight than a gacha game spin off.

Marketing can be done for many reasons but usually I think they just want money and they're not about to alienate part of their fan base so they give everyone something cute.

I haven't yet read or seen Fruits Basket.

As for Naruto, I personally never got that vibe from those two.

Though, funny enough and kind of keeping on the topic:

G.O.D: Mezameyo to Yobu Koe ga Kikoe: Has a blond soldier character who falls in love with a female character who just so happens to have a pink character sprite, lol. It's implied they have sex at an inn one night and then you lose the female character as a party member when you find out she's pregnant. I was so innocent, I was all, "oh that's so cool, I've never lost a party member because of pregnancy before." And then she gets killed in an attack and the blond soldier goes immediately berserk and leaves the party to chase after the character who killed her. At one point, the characters talk about meeting God™ and I thought that maybe this meant we could get the female character back! But when the game introduced another love interest for the blond soldier I realized it wasn't happening, alas. I missed that female character, she was so much better than the character who replaced her. Well, at least the blond soldier didn't spend his whole life alone.

This is why I find it a bit funny when thinking about the LTD because FF7 does nothing like this. Instead, Cloud says that only another female character's opinion matters and eventually confesses that she's always been the raison d'être of his character.

Shadow Hearts 1 and 2: The main character's love interest dies in the first game and then in the second game he meets another female main character. He repeatedly ogles her body, imagines her naked, or in revealing (....well, more revealing) clothes. She's shown to be one to worry about him the most, have faith him in, nurse him, and eventually she outright confesses to him. They also have a lot of private moments of bonding. And you might at this point think that the game is building her up as a second love interest? And you would be dead wrong because PLOT TWIST: she turns out to be the main character's mother through time travel/paradox shenanigans. The lesson here is that sometimes a story might give the illusion of a love interest, only for that love interest to turn out to be the mother.

I actually kind of guessed the mother twist when the main character said his mother must've named him after her first love but I dismissed the intuition as implausible.

Shadow Hearts was honestly one of the more bizarre games I've played in a while.

I wasn't ignoring you I just needed time to read everything.

I don't know what Mezameyo to Yobu Koe ga Kikoe is but that actually sounds really interesting.

I also don't know what the heck is happening with Shadow Hearts but that is very weird but intriguing and I really wonder what the heck it's about. Sounds a bit like they watched Back To The Future and decided hey that's a cool plot twist lol. Still very interesting lol. Also reminds me of When Marnie Was There.

Edit: Autocorrect is so weird. Fixed it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I don't really mind if something is by chance or by fate. I just don't see these two concepts as the same. But that was never the issue.

I think you misunderstood. I don't like stories revolving around fate if by fate it means I know the outcome will be guaranteed because the characters are meant to be together from the beginning and all signs point to it. If I figure out the ending of the story I won't usually stick around to see the rest. Unless something else is keeping me there. If they met by chance and their life is a series of random circumstances and this was still the case I still would have the exact same opinion.

I haven't explained the difference between the two because it doesn't exactly matter to me if it's by fate or by chance to dissect that. I know the ending of the story because it's obvious. Being obvious that's "the issue". My issue with tropes of Childhood Friends To Lovers is not "fate" alone, is that it's obvious. But someone asked me if I think CT is feels fated and yes I see them as such and I can't unsee it because of the symbolism I described. Reading back I already pointed out that yes we can say CA death is because of fate. But whether it it is or not, no matter what word I use to describe it the stories are still very different for CA and CT. Where one is literally reunited and the other is not. Call it what you will. Fate, chance whatever. They reunited.

But it's not that I like things if they're revolving around chance only and any mention of fate is suddenly bad. It's that I like not knowing the outcome. I like the uncertainty. I like being tricked by the narrative. I like it when things are not so straight forward. I like when it's not super obvious the main couple will get together. By chance or fate or whatever. And the mere fact a couple that ends up together at the end of the world with a promise that binds them and reunites after years of being apart is to me very unsurprising and very par for the course. Based on the tropes involved especially.

If you say that CT actually met or reunited by chance (I definitely don't see it because of the symbolism of the starry sky and a promise that binds them and the reunion rug but) sure I can live with that. If you say CA is fated too I can also live with that. My opinion and impression is still the same though.

The "advantage" CA has here in winning my interest was not only do they not get together, one of them dies. ZA too has this "advantage." Now because of this there is uncertainty in the will they ever see each other again? How will that turn out aspect. It gives it the impression of not being so clear cut a story as one of about people I know will reunite.

Edit: Made it even clearer. And just in case: No I don't think fate as a theme is terrible in every instance nor do I think it is bad writing.

Mostly I was asking because I wasn't understanding how specifically you saw 'chance' and 'fate' as being signified differently from each other such that something seemed fated versus seeming to happen by chance, but you explaining it as being obvious versus being surprising helped make a lot more sense to me. It wasn't a value judgement, I just wasn't fully comprehending your criteria. I think I get it now, anyways.

For me, a foregone conclusion isn't necessarily less interesting than one that's up in the air, especially if there are trials and tribulations in getting to an obvious ending. Knowing the how is as much fun as knowing the finale in my book. For some people knowing the twist ahead of time ruins a story, but I very often see them coming to the journey through them is more interesting than the twist itself.

That's just me, though.

 

[eleamaya]

Actually, I wanted to defend about BLEACH yesterday but it'd be OOT so I dismissed it.

Anyway, I'm tired of this "Aerith vs Tifa" debate as Canon!Rosa on twitter, especially because Ever Crisis bring it back with title or something. Idgaf at all about it like.... does it matter? is it relevant to the canon pair? It's an acting whoever the actress is and even Cloud is an actor! Heck, what if I said Yuffie is the canon one?

FF7 Rebirth illustrate LOVELESS Play as VR where everybody can experience with themselves playing the leading roles. So to me, all interpretations are valid because each will see their pairings as the Alphreid and Rosa. Heck, even ZAs can see it as ZA (yes, I spot my ZA moots do that too), though I dont. Reason why I dont:

...because according to the official interpretation, Zack is not the Prisoner, Genesis is. The Play only covers Act II-III through the POV of the girl whom the Prisoner fall in love with. Zack is the Hero who save the Prisoner's life (next Act). Zack is main lead of CCFF7 (hero), doesnt mean he's also the main lead of LOVELESS (prisoner) since the story make Genesis being nerd about it. I dont think the story sound like CA or CT in parallel, either. The girl/princess is from the enemy faction who helped the prisoner.

People are focus more in the last line of the LOVELESS Play, just as Cid and Kunsel. The play itself is one of the poem's interpretation. So to me, every interpretation is valid even if I imagine Genesis playing Alphreid with Jessie as his Rosa. It just exists like any Shakespeare's play in our world. Do you feel yourself as Hamlet or Romeo? Or you feel like you're the actor/actress who play the leading roles when you take the seat in the theatre?

The only canon is Aerith singing, and yes, the song title does sound connected to the last lines shared between Alphreid and Rosa (and apparently Alphreid is played by Cloud that's why both CT and CA want their girl to be his Rosa). But I think that's why Aerith wins the competition to sing although it reflects her own feelings for everyone she meets, not because she imagined herself as Rosa with Cloud as her Alphreid.

 

[Skilganon]

Aerith is the canon Rosa. Cloud's promise to reunite with her foreshadows Aerith's revival and their reunion in part 3. It's all there in the symbolism. /s

 

[Ryeleigh]

Not even as tropes. People are using these characters as paper dolls they like the appearance of to cast completely different characters onto. Not only is the CA Cloud nothing like narrative Cloud, he's not even the same Cloud moment to moment. He's whatever character is needed to claim victory at any given moment. To your point about being a villain, many CA say "he's only a womanizer if you go the Tifa route" as if Tifa coming to check on Cloud makes him a literal different character than if Barret, Yuffie, Cait or Aerith do it.

Yeah, I really don't get that? I mean, if people treat characters like infinitely malleable paper dolls, doesn't it kind of defeat the purpose of fanfiction and shipping them? But I guess it's easier to use established characters as OCs in an established world? I don't know, lol.

I wasn't ignoring you I just needed time to read everything.

I don't know what Mezameyo to Yobu Koe ga Kikoe is but that actually sounds really interesting.

I also don't know what the heck is happening with Shadow Hearts but that is very weird but intriguing and I really wonder what the heck it's about. Sounds a bit like they watched Back To The Future and decided hey that's a cool plot twist lol. Still very interesting lol. Also reminds me of When Marnie Was There.

It's cool! The thread moves fast, lol!

Mezameyo is an 1996 RPG for SNES. And Shadow Hearts are games for PS2. They were definitely experiences, lol, so if people really like video games in all their forms and differences, I guess I would recommend them just on that basis?